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socialdysfunktion
28-07-2001, 04:10
after reading many reports of the cold water extraction methods for opiates, i got to thinking...is there a method (and is it possible) to extract the mdma out of pills, leaving the shit aside?? this may be in the wrong forum, so move it if need be, but is this possible??
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drugs didnt kill the superstar.
rehab did.

xylo-
28-07-2001, 05:09
Sure, a simple acid/base extraction should suffice. The same trick used for purifing coke and heroin, look up instructions on erowid.
It's a bit more complicated than a cold-water extraction, but still VERY simple, easily accomplished with kitchen chemistry. Just be aware it'll extract any other drugs present in the pill as well, such as methamphetamine or ephedrine or DXM.

SovietContin
28-07-2001, 06:43
What would be the point of extracting it, though?

socialdysfunktion
28-07-2001, 14:37
the point of it would be to extract the shit (filler, caffiene, k, etc) out of the pill so you have only mdma.
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drugs didnt kill the superstar.
rehab did.

east staines massiv
28-07-2001, 15:09
ok.
_Discussion_
an acid base extraction relies on the fact that ionic substances (ie a conjugate acid in the case of MDMA) is soluble in water much more than in an organic (such as ether, pet spirit etc) than other organics (eg lactose use for filling).
basically you disolve the chemical in the ether and wash it with dil. HCl and then seperate the aquous layer via a seperating funnel. it is better to do 3 washes of 30mL than one wash of 90 mL.
this is fine except for two points
1) MDMA in pills is most likely pressent as the HCl salt already so acidification is not necasary. Basically this is how a coldwater extraction works. the HCl salt of MDMA (ionic) is very soluble even in cold water whereas lactose is not. If you want to get the MDMA out of a pill coldwater extraction is ok.
2) Any drugs in the pill with a basic group will react with HCl to form their respective Conjugate acids. (nearly??) Every single psychoactive drug has a basic group (ie amine group) so you wont be able to seperate the other drugs via this method.
As i'd assume all these drugs would be already in the HCl salts (generally more stable than free bases) a cold water extraction will seperate the drugs (ketAMINE, amphetAMINE, MDMA, cafeINE etc etc) from the organic filler but not from each other.
_Conclusion_ Its alot harder seperating the drugs in a pill than just a simple coldwater extraction or an ether extraction.
_Suggestions_ Make sure you buy good shit from the start.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by east staines massiv (edited 28 July 2001).]

dpp
29-07-2001, 00:20
"point of it would be to extract the shit (filler, caffiene, k, etc) out of the pill so you have only mdma."
doh! caffiene, MDMA and K are all alkaloids (well i'm actually not sure about K, but i'm guessing so).. so the acid/base would have the caffiene and K and MDMA all in it. just no filler.

socialdysfunktion
29-07-2001, 02:18
dpp- thanks, i wasnt aware of that. so i should just be happy with the pills or find a hook for powder.
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drugs didnt kill the superstar.
rehab did.

min
29-07-2001, 05:58
You'd need a *lot* of pills to make the extraction worthwhile, and not a small amount of equipment and chemicals (though most of them can be found OTC).
If I were interested in doing such a thing, I'd first test my pills for purity. Then I'd crush them, and perform multiple extractions into an acidic solution--perhaps adding a methanol extraction. Then I'd basify the mixture, and extract into ether, DCM, or toluene. You could either let the solvent evaporate to leave the freebase, or perform further procedures to end up with powder once again.

xylo-
30-07-2001, 02:28
My assumption in suggesting an acid-base extraction was that he wanted to extract the MDMA from the binders and such, the same way people want to extract heroin from the cut. I know you can skip the acid step, but I still use the term "acid-base extraction" regardless.
It was later clarified that he wanted to extract the MDMA from any other drugs available, ketamine etc. Obviously an acid-base extraction is useless for this sort of thing, as is any other procedure that can be easily performed without some complicated lab procedure. I don't see someone doing chromatography in their kitchen.
So for all intents and purposes, it seems that no, there is no way to extract MDMA from a mixture of MDMA and other psychoactive amines.

PlurredChemistry
30-07-2001, 05:05
Hey Everyone!
In order to extract pure MDMA from a pill - regardless of whatever else is in it - can be done! It just takes some good chem lab equipment and experience.
Everyone is right - the first step you need to do is run a few acid-base extractions. This will leave you with only compounds with basic groups - ie your amine groups/alkaloids.
So now you have a mixture of many different compounds like say...MDMA, Speed, Caffeine, and DXM.
~~These can be seperated!~~
Its an easy process, but it takes some practice before you can do this well!
It works behind the principle that each compound has a different polarity/dipole moment.
So now what you have to do is run something called a TLC plate. Here you dab a tiny bit of your mixture onto a piece of plastic that has been covered with silica gel. Next you have to stick the plate in chamber that has a small ammount of potential column solvent. (a good start is 80:20 hexanes/ethylether) Now the solvent will slowly run up the TLC plate. Just before it reaches the top pull it out. You your compounds should have seperated into 4 different spots (if you picked the right solvent) - you might not be able to see the spots so a UV lamp will be helpful here.
Keep changing your solvent mixture until you get good seperation of all spots
Once you get good seperation of your spots, you can run a colum. This is done by taking a long glass tube with a stopcock (hehe - i said stopcock) at the end. Fill it with silica gel and then add the same solvent you ran your TLC plate with (this part is really crucial, so read up on exactly how to do it in an OCHEM lab manual). Once you have your column packed, you can run your compounds through it. Run the solvent+compounds through the column into small testtubes (at least 50). Now each of your different compounds should be seperated into the different compounds - ie maybe caffiene is in test tubes 4-10 and MDMA is in 13-20 and so on. You figure out which is in which by running more TLC plates and matching spots on the last TLC plate you did earlier.
Now just remove the solvent! And you've got pure MDMA
IT CAN BE DONE!
at the bare minimum you could figure out how to do this with a lab manual, but
JUST TAKE AN OCHEM CLASS+LAB
it'll make way more sence and you'll have practice on not-expensive chemicals :-)
I'd be happy to do it for ya, but its summer and my school lab is closed and i don't have access in the summer :-(
anyother questions? email me
or IM me - barnpizza
~Mateo~
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-Work Like You Don't Need The Money-
-Love Like You've Never Been Hurt-
-Dance Like Nobody's Watching-
PLUR and PEACE OUT

WartZ
30-07-2001, 05:18
i know y u would do this i was gonna ask the same thing cuase i wanna buy a large quantity of pills and i wanna find out how much mdma is in the pills i am buying
like the kid would let me buy 1 or 2 in advance

xylo-
30-07-2001, 06:55
PlurredChemistry, great post but something tells me anyone with access to the right equipment and the knowledge to perform that procedure wouldn't have asked this question in the first place :P
I assume the question is more like, can MDMA be extracted using "kitchen chemistry."

PlurredChemistry
30-07-2001, 08:50
Good Point Xylo-
wartZ - it would be rather difficult to find the actual amount of MDMA in a single pill without access to really nice equiptment (ie. GC/MS -- i'm waiting for access to one)
The mehtods i've described will work, but you will probably lose a bit of product through the procedure. But once you've isolated the MDMA, you cna just weigh it...
As far as kitchen chemistry goes, seperation of multiple compounds still can be done, but its a bit tough. If you really want to do it, you can try to run a distillation and seperate the compounds based on their various boiling points.
First you need the free-base of MDMA (cuz its a liquid) - so run an acid-base extraction and remove the solvent to give MDMA oil
I haven't run a distillation in a long time (i just use the method i mentioned above whenever i want to purify something) so i might not have this exactly correct but...
If you go to a library at a university ask the refrence librarian for a copy of the Merck index (no one will suspect anything, so don't worry). Find MDMA and there will be a small entry about the compound and its physical features. One of the entries will be boiling point (abbreviated bp).
The next part will be hard to do in terms of kitchen chemistry - but its probably the easiest way to seperate MDMA from unknowns without alot of serious chemistry gear.
Now all you have to do is set up a distillation appratus. This is gonna be hard to describe but if you look online i'm sure you'll be able to find a picture - and possibly even order something like it .
But anyways - a distillation appratus should allow you to boil your compounds then while in the gas phase - move them from the liquid - then cool them back to liquid away from the origional mixture. The whole system should have a thermometer to monitor temprature.
Now the theory behind this is that you can boil stuff off with a lower BP while keeping everything with a higher BP. Then you can boil off the compound you want while leaving behind everything else -
For example - lets say speed has a BP of 80
MDMA is 100, Ketamine is 115 and Caffeine is 120 (these are just guesses - look up the real values in the merck index)
We'd boil off the speed first (since it had the lowest BP and seperate it from everything else. Now we have a mixture of MDMA/K/Caffeine. Now we boil the mixture again at 100 degrees. Do this for a while and all the MDMA will boil off (this is why we have to have a method to turn it back to liquid) and seperate from everything else.
UNFORTUNATELY - that is the closest thing to kitchen chemistry that i can think of that would be able to seperate unknowns from MDMA.
questions IM me - barnpizza
~Mateo~