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RobotRipping
02-02-2013, 09:08
if you're going to use extracts you are going to get nasty withdrawals at some point, hate to warn you but there are plenty of reports on here about extracts and other forums. They are strong (when they are made right) and unlike the plain leaf, you can consume a lot more of the active alkaloids without having the same side effects, creating a much higher dependence than kratom could itself.

look for FST from a reliable vendor, you won't be disappointed but you will most certainly have a withdrawal if you take it constantly for a few weeks or more. kratom extracts are hard to make, tinctures are what you're looking for in general but batches can vary significantly, from very weak to very strong, so make sure to research the tincture from the vendor you are looking at and see how people like it and if the vendor gets reliable tinctures. Tinctures are usually made in bulk and sent out to smaller suppliers who resell them, so they mostly come from a limited amount of sources, so if they make a shit batch, a bunch of vendors may end up getting it as well.

i use kratom once a day usually at 6-8 grams depending on strain. It helps me focus in school and that's about it. I guess my opiate tolerance is just fucked now, however if i don't use kratom i get RLS and diarrhea, so i'm just going to taper it down. My point is that you can get a withdrawal from kratom, particularly if you are using it to come off opiates. For opiate naive users, kratom withdrawal isn't a big deal.

poe - don't buy capsules you are getting seriously ripped off. I sometimes go through 30-40 caps in a day if i'm using kratom the whole day. and it costs me probably $3-4 to do this at most. Buy some 00 or 000 gel caps on ebay or something and buy powdered kratom from a reliable online vendor and you'll save a lot more money.

Need4speed
02-02-2013, 20:07
if you're going to use extracts you are going to get nasty withdrawals at some point, hate to warn you but there are plenty of reports on here about extracts and other forums. They are strong (when they are made right) and unlike the plain leaf, you can consume a lot more of the active alkaloids without having the same side effects, creating a much higher dependence than kratom could itself.

look for FST from a reliable vendor, you won't be disappointed but you will most certainly have a withdrawal if you take it constantly for a few weeks or more. kratom extracts are hard to make, tinctures are what you're looking for in general but batches can vary significantly, from very weak to very strong, so make sure to research the tincture from the vendor you are looking at and see how people like it and if the vendor gets reliable tinctures. Tinctures are usually made in bulk and sent out to smaller suppliers who resell them, so they mostly come from a limited amount of sources, so if they make a shit batch, a bunch of vendors may end up getting it as well.

i use kratom once a day usually at 6-8 grams depending on strain. It helps me focus in school and that's about it. I guess my opiate tolerance is just fucked now, however if i don't use kratom i get RLS and diarrhea, so i'm just going to taper it down. My point is that you can get a withdrawal from kratom, particularly if you are using it to come off opiates. For opiate naive users, kratom withdrawal isn't a big deal.

poe - don't buy capsules you are getting seriously ripped off. I sometimes go through 30-40 caps in a day if i'm using kratom the whole day. and it costs me probably $3-4 to do this at most. Buy some 00 or 000 gel caps on ebay or something and buy powdered kratom from a reliable online vendor and you'll save a lot more money.

spot on

im new to kratom but in my research all this is true ^^


my head shop has decent caps, so i went in today and bought him out , should be enough to last me for when my order comes in :)

liftedgift
02-02-2013, 21:37
I have tried the UEI and enhanced bali and they really are strong, they are pricey though. I will probably be ordering some tincture sometime to see what the hype is about. Can't go wrong with normal Bali though, I've tried many different kinds but I keep coming back to Bali.

Need4speed
03-02-2013, 02:00
I have tried the UEI and enhanced bali and they really are strong, they are pricey though. I will probably be ordering some tincture sometime to see what the hype is about. Can't go wrong with normal Bali though, I've tried many different kinds but I keep coming back to Bali.

how is bali?

sedating?

im def going for the green mayaly, i want the kratom for energy, focus, anti deprssesion and happyness

i found it a god send ( the little if used so far) so i can imagine the effects of other strains and leafs

liftedgift
03-02-2013, 05:13
Bali can be sedating, if it's the morning it can be energizing but yeah Bali is like the vanilla flavor of kratom...can't really go wrong.

Fresco
03-02-2013, 19:31
Bali is the best sedating kratom IMO

Professer
03-02-2013, 19:40
There's so many other sedating types too. That's part of the beauty of kratom, so much variety and mystery to this wonderful plant. There's SO much we don't know, and there's so many factors in play when it comes to personal use. The same leaf can easily effect two individuals very differently.

We need more research on this plant. I know some guys who're trying to work on isolating some of the main alkaloids in kratom. It's pretty much all guesswork since there's so little known.

wvdude
03-02-2013, 20:15
What's the best online store to get quality kratom at a fair price in the states?

Fresco
03-02-2013, 21:14
What's the best online store to get quality kratom at a fair price in the states?
We cant mention sources, brah.

Might wanna delete your post before you get sent to banned camp ;)

Professer
03-02-2013, 21:58
Cmon everyone, read the rules.

Need4speed
03-02-2013, 22:27
wich strain taps more into your subconcious, for example deeper , focused thinking?

Professer
03-02-2013, 22:50
One of the more uplifting and euphoric/energizing strains might be better for that. Thais, Malays usually fit that bill.

Need4speed
03-02-2013, 23:01
i feel amazing on tramadol

i can only imagine how good this cocktail is going to be with kratom

Professer
03-02-2013, 23:43
I've heard mixed reports about mixing kratom with other opioids/opiates. Some have said one cancels the other out (in their experience), others have said they have a good synergy.

Keep us posted and let us know. I remember in highschool when I would take 300-350mg tramadol with no tolerance before school and smoke a blunt on the way there. Those were good times... I'd always try and dose the highest amount possible with opies back then.

Hiltoniano
04-02-2013, 01:34
I think Kratom and tramadol would work, but I can attest most combos of "x" opioid with Kratom tend to be disappointing. Hydrocodone and Kratom is a nogo, that's for sure. Maybe some kind of situation related to receptor affinity?

Need4speed
04-02-2013, 03:09
400mg of tram sends my mood to the moon

so when i get my kra powder im going to try this to start

3g kra in the morning
3g kra in the evening
200mg tram a couple hours before going out

( this is just a weekend stack btw!)

weekend addiction
04-02-2013, 06:28
I used to make kratom with lots of lemon juice. I dont know if it was the citric acid or what but it made me feel sick to my stomach after repeated use. I might try kratom tea again but no LJ. I can't swallow capsules and I def. cant toss and wash or I will vomit.

Need4speed
04-02-2013, 15:55
funny you mention that

i just washed some down with 4-5 oz of lemondade and i feel neasua's

ughh ill stick to water if i dont have juice around!

Need4speed
08-02-2013, 00:56
No more head shops or fucking capsules to open :)

right now im basking in maeng da plus

it could be just mixed stimulating strains and marketed , but im very very content right now

Need4speed
08-02-2013, 01:08
No more head shops or fucking capsules to open :)

right now im basking in maeng da plus

it could be just mixed stimulating strains and marketed , but im very very content right now

Need4speed
08-02-2013, 21:58
experiment

1 gram of maeng da powder in 16 oz samuel adams alpine spring beer

will report back after im done

XxxshortyxxX
09-02-2013, 08:30
I have never experienced the sedative side of kratom. No matter how much I take I feel energized. Is it possible I am not dosing high enough? Or do other people have this issue too? I'd like to beable to use it for my insomnia, but it only seems to make it worse so I have to take my last dose in the afternoon.

silentcowboy
09-02-2013, 20:31
It could be the strain your using. Generally (not all the time) Green vein = stimulating, Red vein = sedative. How much do you dose?

FlawedByDesign
09-02-2013, 20:45
Bali works wonders for insomnia

Need4speed
09-02-2013, 21:25
update

dont mix kratom in your beer

i did 1gram in 16 oz

ended up with a headache and neasua all night

XxxshortyxxX
10-02-2013, 01:31
Average dose is usually 6 grams of plain leaf in capsule form (I cap them myself). I have also tried toss n wash with those 15x & 30x extracts, in that case I usually take 4 grams, but I have never gotten near the effects I have with plain leaf, even at 6 grams of the 30x. The extracts seem to be lacking something.

silentcowboy
10-02-2013, 06:06
It depends on a lot of things when in comes to extracts, like the quality and strain(s) used to make the extract, the method they use, ect. Im not into extracts at all but have tried a few, some feel pretty good, some dont do a thing... Plain leaf works just fine for me and been a daily doser for 2 years

PANDAmonium
13-02-2013, 04:11
My advice regarding extracts: avoid liquids and any dark colored powders. Those seem to be the biggest waste of money on the current market.

I've had amazing extracts that are a worth every penny, and extracts that are way overpriced. Of course plain leaf works just fine on its own :] The "good stuff" is nice every once in a while.

blight12
14-02-2013, 01:11
Quick question regarding the high potency extracts, my research is inconclusive.

Can anybody confirm if the genuine alkaloid (FS or isolate) extracts that are available have any value in nasal administration?

And I don't mean those enhancing leaf or those that contain any plant material at all. The ones that come in powder format and only require 0.1g for good results seem theoretically ideal for nasal administration, unless im missing something?

I know its not a habit we want to see in the Kratom community at all and its probably best there are hindrances in place, but I just wanted to confirm. Thanks.

miscbrahh
14-02-2013, 03:55
Has anyone found a way to get rid of the nausea while taking higher doses of kratom? Last night I tried drinking ginger beer and chewing ginger root, but I still got that terrible dizzy-hangover feeling after 15 grams (not an enhanced extract).

Also if I were to try a low dose of oxy, would that likely result in nausea for me?
Thanks!

silentcowboy
14-02-2013, 05:48
Quick question regarding the high potency extracts, my research is inconclusive.

Can anybody confirm if the genuine alkaloid (FS or isolate) extracts that are available have any value in nasal administration?

And I don't mean those enhancing leaf or those that contain any plant material at all. The ones that come in powder format and only require 0.1g for good results seem theoretically ideal for nasal administration, unless im missing something?

I know its not a habit we want to see in the Kratom community at all and its probably best there are hindrances in place, but I just wanted to confirm. Thanks.


Ive never heard of anybody doing this, but lets try our best to keep kratom legal, and putting it up your nose would be a big reason to hate on it. Its not that bad when someone sees you take some kratom caps and you explain what it is, or a family member watches you take a parachute, but seeing someone "administer" it in this way would bring on quite a stigma, and attract people we dont want taking the plant. just my opinion...









Has anyone found a way to get rid of the nausea while taking higher doses of kratom? Last night I tried drinking ginger beer and chewing ginger root, but I still got that terrible dizzy-hangover feeling after 15 grams (not an enhanced extract).

Also if I were to try a low dose of oxy, would that likely result in nausea for me?
Thanks!


15g is a pretty good sized dose, do you ingest the plant matter or make tea and strain? Either way the the oxy probably wont help matters but some mj would haha...

miscbrahh
14-02-2013, 06:09
15g is a pretty good sized dose, do you ingest the plant matter or make tea and strain? Either way the the oxy probably wont help matters but some mj would haha...

Ty for the reply.
I've ingested on an empty stomach (Toss and wash with OJ) and also tried a 2nd time mixing it with yogurt.

What I meant with the oxy thing is that since I get nausea from kratom, what are the chances that I'll get nausea from taking just oxy?

silentcowboy
14-02-2013, 07:50
Im not too sure on that one, i know nausea is a side effect of oxy and opiates in general. Ingesting 15g of plant matter is a lot imo (especially with no tolerance, idk if that applies to you or not) making nausea pretty likely. I suggest finding a better source for your kratom if it takes that much to get you where you need to be, maybe try some enhanced leaf but id stay away from them extracts

miscbrahh
14-02-2013, 08:35
Im not too sure on that one, i know nausea is a side effect of oxy and opiates in general. Ingesting 15g of plant matter is a lot imo (especially with no tolerance, idk if that applies to you or not) making nausea pretty likely. I suggest finding a better source for your kratom if it takes that much to get you where you need to be, maybe try some enhanced leaf but id stay away from them extracts

Yup, no Opiate tolerance.
I think I'm just going to throw the rest out, the hangover was not worth the ok-ish body buzz.

blight12
14-02-2013, 19:06
Ive never heard of anybody doing this, but lets try our best to keep kratom legal, and putting it up your nose would be a big reason to hate on it. Its not that bad when someone sees you take some kratom caps and you explain what it is, or a family member watches you take a parachute, but seeing someone "administer" it in this way would bring on quite a stigma, and attract people we dont want taking the plant. just my opinion...

Yeah, agreed.

Privateer
15-02-2013, 06:06
The oral bioavailability of pure mitragynine was reported to be alarmingly low: "a calculated absolute oral bioavailability value of 3.03%" (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20454783) which is worrying to say the least. The bioavailability of 7-hm is more favorable: "The absolute oral bioavailability was found to be 52%." (http://abstracts.aapspharmaceutica.com/Verify/AAPS2012/postersubmissions/T2329.pdf) One thing that I'm thinking is that pure mitragynine is poorly absorbed but the mitragynine complexed in the plant matter is more easily absorbed by the body?

Doing the math, if 3% of its mitragynine is bioavailable... A 4g sample of plain leaf with 1% mitragynine and 0.03% 7-hm (going off of reported mitragynine contents and alkaloidal ratios) would contain about 40mg mitragynine and 1.2mg 7-hm, of which 1.2 mg of mitragynine and 0.62 mg of 7-hydroxymitragynine would allegedly be bioavailable. If mitragynine is roughly equal in potency to morphine and 7-hm is five to eight times the potency of morphine (conservative figures), a 4g dose would offer 4-6 morphine mg equivalents as iv or after bioavailability calculations for oral. If mitragynine's bioavailability increases a little bit in plant matter versus pure form this figure can go up quite a bit. The pharmacokinetics of kratom is fascinating. The reported bioavailabilities, unfortunately, are all over the place currently, so all these calculations are tentative at best. I'm excitedly waiting for reputable figures in that department.

Fresco
18-02-2013, 16:46
Has anyone tried tapering off kratom to quit??

If so, how well did that work for you??

jazzyhope
18-02-2013, 19:21
Can someone PM me a source for decent Kratom? I purchased some 8 years ago & found it very helpful for w/d's. Dont really have the $$ for hit & miss sites. Thanks

XxxshortyxxX
20-02-2013, 11:10
I know we cant source here, I had this issue as well :(

blueheaven
23-02-2013, 22:41
I hope this is the right place to post this. I recently used kratom and tramadol to get off a 4-year pod habit (there was a three month break in there about two years ago) and I was thrilled and grateful for how well it worked. I have tapered completely off the trams and now take nothing except kratom, a daily prescribed SSRI (very low dose - I'm ultra-sensitive to SSRIs), and the occasional prescribed benzo (as needed, less than once a week).

One of my big reasons for getting shut of the opiates at this point was hypersomnia - I was amazingly productive while on them but once I finally went to sleep, I'd sleep for 12 hours. I'm self-employed now so that is not cool and not sustainable. I've kept using kratom because it was staving off the PAWS which has always been the reason I go back to using.

But kratom also seems to induce hypersomnia. It keeps me going for about three hours (I take no more than 7 grams at a go, usually more like 5), then I get really sleepy. And I will sleep for 12 hours the next day. I have suffered and shuffled through a few days with nothing but coffee, during which I got little to nothing done, and have been able to get up earlier the following day, which suggests it's the kratom. Does kratom do this to anybody else, and does anybody have suggestions for dosing, strains, or anything else that might help me keep the good effects without the hypersomnia?

tkarr
24-02-2013, 07:50
So is it considered to be the case that kratom is fairly safe to use and one isn't likely to experience long-term health effects if they end up with a bit of a habit? I know that there are many people who have used it for many, many years in South-East Asia. On wikipedia it says: "A general consensus exists in Thailand among leaders, public health officials, academics and policymakers that kratom use and dependence causes little, if any, health risks." But I wonder if there have been studies or if it's just a "general consensus" like they say. I've been using it daily for about six months to kick an opiate habit. And yeah I mean I haven't noticed any negative side effects at all from it - aside from the fact that you are hooked on it the same way as with other opiates, and if you don't take it you feel withdrawal symptosm.

Blind Melon
24-02-2013, 08:10
This has probably been asked before, and I did UTFSE, but I don't have time to read all 36 pages of this.

Would Kratom work on top of my daily bupe dose (8-16mg)? I'm wondering if a) it wouldn't work because the bupe would be monopolizing all my opioid receptors, or b) even worse, could it cause PWD?

Thanks in advance for putting up with me. I'm just desperate to get high, can't use opiates obviously, and I'm worried about the benzo habit I am building. Weed, as amazing as it is, just doesn't cut it for me. :(

Fresco
24-02-2013, 17:12
Its a general concensus that kratom and other opiates dont mix very well.

Alcohol and kratom does though

voxmystic
24-02-2013, 20:18
I hope this is the right place to post this. I recently used kratom and tramadol to get off a 4-year pod habit (there was a three month break in there about two years ago) and I was thrilled and grateful for how well it worked. I have tapered completely off the trams and now take nothing except kratom, a daily prescribed SSRI (very low dose - I'm ultra-sensitive to SSRIs), and the occasional prescribed benzo (as needed, less than once a week).

One of my big reasons for getting shut of the opiates at this point was hypersomnia - I was amazingly productive while on them but once I finally went to sleep, I'd sleep for 12 hours. I'm self-employed now so that is not cool and not sustainable. I've kept using kratom because it was staving off the PAWS which has always been the reason I go back to using.

But kratom also seems to induce hypersomnia. It keeps me going for about three hours (I take no more than 7 grams at a go, usually more like 5), then I get really sleepy. And I will sleep for 12 hours the next day. I have suffered and shuffled through a few days with nothing but coffee, during which I got little to nothing done, and have been able to get up earlier the following day, which suggests it's the kratom. Does kratom do this to anybody else, and does anybody have suggestions for dosing, strains, or anything else that might help me keep the good effects without the hypersomnia?

Kratom definitely enhances my sleep, but I suffer from insomnia, so for me, it's a godsend.

Aphex747
24-02-2013, 21:47
for someone who has never done kratom but enjoys opiates of all kinds, my friend said theres a strain thats the strongest and its like hydrocodone. its called borneo red vein or something like that. i think he got leaves, but im not sure. can anyone help point me at least in the right direction, i have no knowledge of kratom other than id like to check it out : ) -aphex

PANDAmonium
25-02-2013, 22:36
Aphex, the strain your friend is referring to is Red Vein Bali (also referred to as Red Vein Borneo). It's usually referred to as simply, "Bali" but there are more than one type of Bali, so be sure to look for the red vein variety.

aguythatlikessmoke
25-02-2013, 22:54
Let me input I have a heck load of Experience with some of these Ethnobotanical compounds or Herbal/Plant compounds. I admit I like Kratom I never found it too addictive. My strongest strain was Maeng Da shit is rad when I took it initially I felt stimulated, talkative and really good eventually I felt really chilled out and a powerful body high I've also noted my eyes got very very blood shot on Maeng Da it looked as though I smoked a big blunt and my eyes where droppy. Maeng Da its slightly stimulating but more like an opiod type high and you feel slowed down, chilled and pain relief first you get stimulated and then you just feel groggy,sedated blood shot eyes. Euphoric as well and it has some aphrodisiac quality to it Maeng Da.
Next Kratom strain I tried is Bali Red Kratom this shit I liked its really stimulating, it pumps up your energy levels, you also feel that Opiod warmth feeling hard to describe and you notice no blood shot eyes but you do notice constricted pupils. It really stimulates me this strain like not just on a mental level but on a physical level I did some cleaning work and ran a cleaning business over the summer and when I took this strain I would be able to exert myself so much in any type of physical work without feeling tired, I would pace back and forth and feel absolutely no fatigue my mind was blank as well so much better than Caffeine this is probably my favourite strain as I tend to enjoy stimulating effects sometimes a bit more than sedation and I feel more Euphoric when stimulated, you also get a feeling of excitement on this strain it is reminiscent to Amphetamine though not as intense and better on your body and less chemical in nature more natural type of feeling. I also did mental work as studying on this strain helps tremendously with that too.
I tried Golden Indo Kratom it is slightly stimulating but very Warmth type feeling over your whole body probably the most Opiod and Euphoric Kratom strain I tried.
I found the extracts to be overwhelming and to just knock me out.

aguythatlikessmoke
25-02-2013, 22:57
I could understand the thai people when they used Kratom to work cause truly if u take the right strain of Kratom it does have that effect of making you more stimulated and better able to work and it also makes everything go by much faster and you get your work done faster and you get more in tune with work> This is on the Bali Red Strain.
So I mean its kinda of like weed( different strains different effects) , Kratom does deff have Cocaine like stimulation and Morphine like sedation. I found the Cocaine Like stimulation evident on the Bali Red strain.
Whilst the Morphine like sedation is experienced more so on Maeng Da kratom. Kratom is an interesting compound as it tends to display different effects.
Most of the times Kratom effects last 2-3 hours for me.
I have also tried a herb called Sceletium Tortuosum different mechanism of action compared to Kratom but if you have the proper vendors for these herbs the effects are astonishing.
Like Kratom its easy to get a good vendor cause its plentiful
Sceletium tortuosum seems people haven't gotten too much out of it. For me that herb its effects are better than Kratom it is like a powerful herbal antidepressant it acts on CB1 receptors and Serotonin and you can feel like you took MDMA whilst on Sceletium. I live in Europe and I buy my stuff in Person and its legal in my location and I have an excellent vendor for Sceletium and Kratom so with these two compounds I know all of the effects top to bottom there is really so much to write on them.
I really hope that people give Sceletium a try as well to me the effects are at a better level than Kratom . I can reckon so because I got hooked on Sceletium whereas with Kratom i never got hooked.

aguythatlikessmoke
25-02-2013, 23:04
Really if anybody wants any information on Sceletium Tortuosum,Kanna and Kratom. There effects how to use them and how to maximize it personal message me.
I am very skilled in using them.=D Especially Sceletium Tortuosum although I have had at least 30 trips on kratom maybe more.

daytryptr
27-02-2013, 07:25
Its a general concensus that kratom and other opiates dont mix very well.

Alcohol and kratom does though

I agree and disagree. Recently took my first taste of opiates, (morphine, diamorphine, black tar acetyl derivatives and the like), and to be honest, i prefer kratom. My only expirence with pharm/opiates beforehand was hydrocodone from an accident in my teenage years that left me with 2nd degree burns on most of the skin of my arms/legs. Which was purely medical, factoring in the circumstances and my age at the time.

Morphine/herion left me feeling far too nauesous, sick, and turned off from morphine derivatives. I had been using kratom for years on/off before hand, and never got sick the way i did getting way higher off kratom. Now on one occasion, i took a dose of kratom extract after puking my guts out from plugging ~15mg black tar without any tolerance, and to my suprise it helped a great deal with the nausea. To the point to where i consider it was an effective antiemetic in that situation.

So it made opiates more enjoyable for me, but ultimately left me with a rock hard conviction that kratom is a superior high to opiates, even if they are more euphoric. The thought of mixing them, however, was a bit frightening. Frightening in that it could be an easy way to get a habit to traditional opiates by making the side affects less prelavent when mixing the two.

Ultimately, these couple weeks of playing around with the hard stuff just scared the hell out of me. Kratom w/d's are to the mild w/d's i got from traditional opiates, as cannabis withdrawals are to the hell of benzo withdrawals.

I'm very grateful i had got to know kratom, before opiates. The other way around, things could have been very ugly.

Basically, i think they are dangerously addictive when combined, simply because imho kratom tends to mask some of the side affects opiates gave me, used recreationally. I was lucky too see how foolish it is to fuck around with opiates, all i need is kratom. So much more benign. Not to mention how in low doses kratom is a very effective anti-depressant for me, and lacks the apathy inducing qualities of traditional opiates, due to its cieling effect, and stimulating edge.

Just thought i'd share my expirence, as somewhat of an odd man out being the guy who had a good deal of expirence with kratom, before ever approaching recreational traditional opiate use. But then again, i was that hippie kid who tried every ethno botanical, plant psych he could get his hands on. In retrospect, it was a wise choice before seeking out the harder stuff.