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    Plugging Introduction & Instructions (Klonopin) *Questions* 
    #1
    Bluelighter ombladon's Avatar
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    After a long time of being on clonazepam and a long time contemplating plugging clonazepam, I finally went with it tonight. I've had clonazepam sublingual which sucked and was prob much better orally. I first put a 0.5mg clonazepam pill in a small shotglass, and added 5ml or so of warm water. I helped it dissolve by plucking at it with the tip of the oral syringe and swirled it around with the tip also. I loaded it up and it looked like a really orangey colour liquid. I put it in about all the way up to the 5ml sign on the syringe (so inserted the syringe almost up to the 5ml point), and slowly squirted. Took it out and waited. In about 30min I thought i was feeling something but that 0.5mg really wouldn't be enough to feel. So at that point I did the same preparation with 1mg of clonazepam (two 0.5mg) and plugged. Waited about 30min-1hr and during this time I took 3-4 hits of weed, after which I became EXTRMELY relaxed and buzzed, almost to the point of nodding. It sort of felt like the more time that went by the more high i got. But after about 2 and a half hours it went away a little bit. However I am certain I'm not feeling a placebo, but am reather relaxed and benzo buzzed, in that sedated, hazy, chill out way.

    My question is, how effective is the method I used as far as plugging goes? Is it even effective? I read a little bit before doing it and I saw a thread saying benzos aren't water soluable and so it isn't effective but saw another one saying that using the method i used got him really high and others said so as well so i said fuck it there's nothing to loose and went ahead and did it. What is the real deal here, and I'm looking to hear from people who have tried it. Also from those who have tried it, how long until it peaks? How long does it last? Does tolerance increase faster this way as opposed to oral? Do effects last longer/shorter than orall?
    Last edited by ombladon; 27-08-2005 at 14:13.
     

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    #2
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    While benzos are not very water soluble, the colon contains lactials that absorb lipid-soluble material into lymph. So it works, yes.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that, even though some of the clon. is not water soluble, hydraulics would have been enough to pull it into the syringe as a suspension..etc.
    Last edited by Jamshyd; 27-08-2005 at 03:56.
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter ombladon's Avatar
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    I'm not exactly sure what you mean jamshyd. One other important question that i need answered, would it be more potent to plug using the method i just described or would it be better to use milk as the solution in which the clonazepam will be added? The milk being 2% fat, so not whole but not skimmed, would that affect it differently, absorbtion wise.

    Also still looking from experienced people to help answer the questions relating to duration, tolerence, etc.
     

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    #4
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Milk would help dissolve the clonazepam, yes, and it MIGHT make absorption faster.

    However, as long as you are able to get the actual clonazepam (dissolved or not) into your rectum, it'll eventually be absorbed since your rectum can absorb drugs that are not water-soluble, and, if not more effectively, then at least just as effective as sublingual.
     

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    #5
    Bluelighter ombladon's Avatar
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    So would warm milk work a lot better than warm water?
     

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    #6
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Yes it would, since as I said before milk dissovles clonazepam while water doesnt.

    Again, it doesnt matter as long as you are able to deliver the clonazepam into your rectum.
     

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    #7
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    Im rxed xanax bars and when i get bad anxiety i take one oraly and get quite relaxed but i can still feel anxiety (and im not so tolerant) but if i crush and dissolve a bar (2 mg) in 3-4 ml of water and shot it up my ass i will get a really warm and fuzzy POWERFUL feeling, so pluggin works!
     

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    #8
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    Are their any dangers to pluggin mdma?
     

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    #9
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    ^^ Nope, everything is pluggable, but i wouldnt do solvents like alcohol and such
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter ombladon's Avatar
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    How about to make sure it hits the best possible way, instead of milk which contains a max of 2% fat switch to slightly warm coffee cream (the free ones in coffee shops or larger ones in stores) which contain up to 10-12% of fat. Would you think that would work much better than milk?
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter ratherbewater's Avatar
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    Why on earth would you plug Klonopin?

    Benzos aren't water soluble. Snorting and plugging them won't give you any more of a high than eating the pills, and since they're not being absorbed, snorting them only produces a high because it all eventually hits your stomach. I've snorted Klonopin; it didn't make me even remotely more high than eating it (maybe even less). I don't see the point of going to the trouble of plugging it.

    Just swallow it like it's meant to be taken; it's too much wasted effort to snort or plug benzos.
     

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    #12
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbewater
    Why on earth would you plug Klonopin?

    Benzos aren't water soluble. Snorting and plugging them won't give you any more of a high than eating the pills, and since they're not being absorbed, snorting them only produces a high because it all eventually hits your stomach. I've snorted Klonopin; it didn't make me even remotely more high than eating it (maybe even less). I don't see the point of going to the trouble of plugging it.

    Just swallow it like it's meant to be taken; it's too much wasted effort to snort or plug benzos.
    I really do hope that your rectum and your nose are two very different parts of your body? Because if not, that might be a bit troublesome!

    You CAN plug benzos and it IS worth it if you need quick releif and do not have injectible ampoules.

    Ombladon: I have related my experience pertaining to your question in your other thread on the subject. I hope it was good enough?
     

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    #13
    Bluelighter ratherbewater's Avatar
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    By all means, please correct me where I'm wrong; I even did a search of this site to see what other people had to say, and it seems that if I am indeed wrong, I seem to be in the majority of users here.

    Benzodiazepines (excluding I believe one or two rare ones, and ones specifically made for rectal use and/or made in liquid form) are not water soluble. For this reason, snorting a crushed Klonopin will result in a nose full of what's almost entirely binders/fillers, and will result in either no high, a lessened high, or the same high as if taken orally, once the actual drug drips down into your stomach. Likewise you cannot plug a Klonopin pill, as again, not being soluble, it will not absorb into that mucous membrane.

    In order to plug Klonopin, you can't just do a quick CWE and you can't just shove a pill up your ass; it won't work. In order to make it possible to take Klonopin rectally, it seems to be quite a hassle -- certainly more of a hassle than necessary when Klonopin has nearly 100% bioavailability, and snorting/plugging it (if effective at all) wouldn't be much if any more potent than taking it orally/sublingually.

    I was "raised", so to speak, to believe it's common knowledge that if you can't snort it you can't plug it; now if someone proves me wrong I will humbly accept it, but it seems very few people think that plugging and/or snorting benzos is effective or worth it. I also believe that there's really no good reason to stick all that extraneous stuff (binders/fillers) in your nose or up your ass.

    Basically, to sum up, everything I've read on the topic says that it's either impossible/won't work, or won't work "enough" to make it worth the extra effort.

    I'm not saying that plugging drugs in general is a bad thing or "not worth it". I'm saying why go through the necessary effort to make a benzo plug..gable? when it works just fine orally, and will work quickly if taken sublingually if you need quick relief. I personally have a panic disorder for which I'm prescribed Klonopin; I know all about needing fast relief from anxiety, believe me. But I simply have yet to see a single reputable source say that plugging/snorting benzos is worth it, and most say it is not possible. On this site alone I searched for a bunch of various search phrases and found at least a dozen posts from people saying it doesn't work and/or is not worth it. If we are all wrong, please explain how/why we are wrong.

    Again, I will very gladly concede that you are correct if you can explain how this works.
     

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    #14
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbewater
    Benzodiazepines (excluding I believe one or two rare ones, and ones specifically made for rectal use and/or made in liquid form) are not water soluble. For this reason, snorting a crushed Klonopin will result in a nose full of what's almost entirely binders/fillers, and will result in either no high, a lessened high, or the same high as if taken orally, once the actual drug drips down into your stomach.
    You are correct about the binders - Benzos cannot be snorted because the ratio of drug to binder is very very low. It has nothing to do with water-solubility, though. If you really did search, you'd find that a handful of people, most notably Bilz0r (who provides research data), keep harping on the fact that it has nothing to do with water solubility. In fact, if you have pure benzo powder, it IS possible to snort it and achieve a faster effect. It has nothing to do with water solubility, what is important is lypophylicity.

    Likewise you cannot plug a Klonopin pill, as again, not being soluble, it will not absorb into that mucous membrane.
    Interestingly enough, fats and fat-soluble are absorbed mostly in the intestines, because they are equipped with Lacteals which are extensions of the lymphetic system. Their job is to absorb fat-soluble material. Since benzos are fat-soluble, they are most certainly absorbed in the rectum, and very quickly so.

    I will repeat again that nose does not = rectum, but thats beyond the point, since we already established that it has nothing to do with water-solubility. The water-solubility is only an issue when it comes to injecting

    In order to plug Klonopin, you can't just do a quick CWE and you can't just shove a pill up your ass; it won't work. In order to make it possible to take Klonopin rectally, it seems to be quite a hassle -- certainly more of a hassle than necessary when Klonopin has nearly 100% bioavailability, and snorting/plugging it (if effective at all) wouldn't be much if any more potent than taking it orally/sublingually.
    In my experience, "shoving a pill up the ass" (with clonazepam, specifically) DID actually work. However, this is disputed, and even though it had worked for me it had the disadvantage of having to wait for the pill to dissolve on its own, which is slower than oral. It is for this reason that the pill is dissolved in milk - that way it is absorbed as soon as it comes in contact with the lining of the intestines.

    I was "raised", so to speak, to believe it's common knowledge that if you can't snort it you can't plug it; now if someone proves me wrong I will humbly accept it, but it seems very few people think that plugging and/or snorting benzos is effective or worth it. I also believe that there's really no good reason to stick all that extraneous stuff (binders/fillers) in your nose or up your ass.
    It is "common knowledge" that plugging makes you gay. Does that make it correct? And actually, there is a good reason to stick all that "extraneous stuff" in your rectum, because it is it's job to filter such things. Think about it - if you eat the pill, that "extraneous stuff" is going to end up there anyways, only later. Besides that, I already DID give you a reason as to why you'd want to take it rectally: Benzos are meant to relief anxiety, and in an emergency situation, waiting an hour for clonazepam to kick in can be a nightmare.

    Basically, to sum up, everything I've read on the topic says that it's either impossible/won't work, or won't work "enough" to make it worth the extra effort.
    You obviously have not looked enough on these forums. People like fastandbulbuous and myself and a few others spend huge chunks of their time (like I just did) explaining to people how rectal administration works. I really do hope that people in the future actually DO search because this is getting tedious.

    Yes, I know a lot of people blurt out "plugging doesnt work" (aka "plugging is gay"), but yes, they are ALL wrong.
    Last edited by Jamshyd; 22-11-2005 at 19:24.
     

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    #15
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    Benzos aren't insoluble in water, it's just that thet have a very low water solubility (for the most part); 1g diazepam will dissolve in 2000ml of water at room temp (that's 0.5mg/ml), using an emulsion increases it considerably. Due to the rich blood supply to the colon, absorbtion from there is quite rapid (on a par with IM for quite a few drugs)

    I was "raised", so to speak, to believe it's common knowledge that if you can't snort it you can't plug it; now if someone proves me wrong I will humbly accept it, but it seems very few people think that plugging and/or snorting benzos is effective or worth it.
    Who told you? I'll bet not someone with a medical background. In cases of animals having seizures, if the vet can't IV the benzo (for whatever reason) then they remove the needle and squirt it up the animal's arse. It's not as fast as IV, but considerably faster than swallowing it; it can make a life or death difference for some animals
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter ayjay's Avatar
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    I must have been bored the other night, because it occurred to me that I could probably plug cannabis. Extract the THC etc into oil, as per normal hash cookie routine, but then plug the oil (cooled) rather than eating cookies...

    Have I gone mad, or would this work? Better bioavailability and faster than oral? Safer than smoking?
     

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    #17
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    ^ better to take the oil and add it to milk, whizz up in a blender then squirt. Oil on it's own wouldn't be absorbed that quickly as the digestive system absorbs fatty compounds as emulsions. I wondered if it would be possible to do that with salvinorin A (then the prospect of getting a fuckin' huge dose made me reconsider - accidentally getting say 10mg like that would be the sort of thing that would haunt you for the rest of your life!).

    Basically if it's a drug with low water solubility and high fat solubility (referred to in journals/papers etc as its octanol-water partition coefficient), churn it up with milk then squirt it up your arse to get the best result. Now thinking about it, it might be good for kavalactones as well (except for the numb arse bit!)
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter ratherbewater's Avatar
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    I apologize in advance for the length of this reply, and ask that you believe that I am seriously trying to learn something here; I'm not trying to argue or cause any problems.

    First, I really did search. You can do the same searches I did and I assure you that you will find quite a few comments/posts that claim Klonopin either cannot be plugged at all, or is not worth the effort. I tried searches such as "plug* benzo*", "plug* klon*", "plug* xanax", "rectal* benzo*", etc. You can also see that quite a few of these posts claim that the reason for this (or one of them, at least) is that benzos are not water soluble. I'm not saying you're wrong; I am merely telling you what I've read.

    Water solubility comes into play with insufflation, not just injection. Anything not water soluble is going to clog up the nose and not absorb, which is what Klonopin would do if simply crushed as is and snorted. Does this actually have nothing to do with solubility, either?

    I'm not about to say that you didn't have a successful experience (or experiences) with plugging Klonopin; I can't tell you what you've experienced, and if you say it worked well for you, I have no reason to disbelieve you. You're right, though -- it IS disputed, by a lot of people on several sites, and I'd really like to understand why so many sources seem so sure of what they're saying when apparently they're all completely wrong.

    Common knowledge that plugging makes you gay? Hmm. We don't believe that around here. What a ridiculous notion.

    Your rectum's job is to pass feces, not to absorb pills not meant to be taken rectally. I'm not AT ALL against plugging and have done it more than a few times in my life with excellent results and no regrets, but I'm aware that by doing so I AM in fact giving my ass a job it isn't made for. Again, I'm not against the practice whatsoever, but the ass's only job is to remove waste. As for the binders/fillers "ending up there anyway", have you considered stomach acid that dissolves all of that when the pill is taken orally? I've eaten all different colors of pills, and I've never shit out the binders later; it doesn't end up in your ass unless you put it in your ass.

    As I said, I understand anxiety/panic very well; I spent the better part of a year almost entirely in one room due to severe, multiple daily panic attacks before I finally went out and got prescribed Klonopin for it. I know how horrible anxiety and panic attacks can be, and how desperate the need for something to make it go away can get. I do believe, though, that if your anxiety is so intense that you need to plug your medication because you can't wait the half hour -- or considerably less if you crush it or take it sublingually, which hits faster than anally IIRC -- then you should probably be on a decent medication regimen that does actually control your anxiety. That's not meant to sound preachy or anything, but I know that it's a lot easier for me to take three pills a day and be panic-free 24/7 than to wait until the panic gets so bad that I have to go to fairly dire measures to ease it. But please hear me when I repeat that I know how much of a nightmare it can be between beginning to panic and feeling the benzos kick in. I've spent many a night in the ER sure it was a heart attack because the attacks were that severe. As soon as they put me on Klonopin daily as opposed to a PRN, the panic stopped. If you have terrible anxiety -- which is an absolutely debilitating problem that can seriously fuck your life up -- don't you think maybe you should properly medicate the illness instead of ever GETTING to the point of the "waiting for it to kick in nightmare"?

    I never said that plugging doesn't work, nor did I say it was "gay"'; please do not put words in my mouth. I just don't understand why there are quite a few posts here that insist that plugging benzos is either a) a waste of time (could it just perhaps be that what works for some doesn't for others?), b) not worth it, or c) may work with diminished effects. Obviously plugging the entire pill will take forever to absorb, and by the time it takes to prepare to plug it so that it absorbs more quickly, isn't it conceivable that by then the pill could have simply been eaten?

    I've really looked around this site and others and can find nothing factual saying that benzos are, at the very least, any MORE effective than simply eating them. (I didn't find anything factual saying they could be plugged at all, but again, I am always open to learning and if I'm wrong, so be it and I apologize.) However, I would really like to see some kind of documentation on this topic, beyond what a bunch of people say on a messageboard; you yourself said they're "all wrong" anyway.

    Let me finish by saying I'm really not a mean person and if I came out that way I do apologize. From my POV, I've been told/have read over and over that plugging Klonopin is a waste of time, and now you say that I'm not only completely wrong about that but insinuating that I think that anal administration of (at least some) drugs doesn't work, or that I think it's "gay". I'm bisexual. Shoving something up my ass didn't make me that way any more than it would anyone else.

    --

    fastandbulbous,

    In searching (on and off this site), I have found several references about certain benzos specifically made for rectal administration and/or simply in liquid form so that they can be used in multiple ways. I can't seem to find anything about Klonopin in that form. Also, that sort of medication is already in the form of a liquid; we're talking about crushing pills up and inserting them (or doing so with liquid). Not quite the same as rectally administering liquid Valium to a pet or child.

    Again, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not the type to refuse fact in a feeble attempt to save face. However, what's being presented here by all of us, myself included, is not fact (as in, none of us have actually shown sources backing up our claims). Based solely on the experiences/opinions on BL, it seems thus far that many people do not think plugging benzos is worth it or doesn't work, so even if I am wrong, apparently it's a very common thing to believe. I would really like to see some kind of proof, if any is available. Otherwise we're all just talking about what we've read and heard and done, and we won't get anywhere that way.

    I must also wonder why people go through the more "exotic" preparation needed to successfully plug Klonopin when the effects, though they will have a quicker onset (minus the time it takes to prepare the stuff), will not produce much if any of a stronger effect due to its high bioavailability. Plugging ecstasy close to doubles the potency for me, and it takes about five minutes to make it ready to plug; five minutes and voila, I've gotten almost two pills for the price of one. Why would someone do this with a pill that not only requires more prep work before plugging, but won't really make a difference as far as effects?

    Just from this site, here are some threads in which people say that plugging doesn't work and/or is not worth it.

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...gging+klonopin

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...gging+klonopin (That one actually claims there is a gel form of clonazepam made for rectal use, though I don't know if that's correct.)

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...gging+benzo%2A

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...gging+benzo%2A

    I'll stop there. I am really, truly just trying to figure out why so many people believe something that you guys claim is untrue, and why I can't seem to find a thing on the internet (off of messageboards) that says Klonopin is effective or more effective rectally. My goal here is to teach what I know, and learn what I don't, so if I am indeed wrong, all I want is some sort of reliable source (no offense to anyone here). Hell, I once believed ecstasy had heroin in it, and firmly upheld that belief until proven wrong; I will gladly apologize and gracefully accept the fact that I'm wrong on this point, too, if someone can show me some facts. v
     

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    #19
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbewater
    Water solubility comes into play with insufflation, not just injection. Anything not water soluble is going to clog up the nose and not absorb, which is what Klonopin would do if simply crushed as is and snorted. Does this actually have nothing to do with solubility, either?
    I did agree with you that binders WILL clog up the nose. Sure, some of those binder aren't water soluble. No, that has nothing to do with water solubility of the drug, or the absorption of the drug.

    Common knowledge that plugging makes you gay? Hmm. We don't believe that around here. What a ridiculous notion.
    And then:

    Your rectum's job is to pass feces, not to absorb pills not meant to be taken rectally. I'm not AT ALL against plugging and have done it more than a few times in my life with excellent results and no regrets, but I'm aware that by doing so I AM in fact giving my ass a job it isn't made for. Again, I'm not against the practice whatsoever, but the ass's only job is to remove waste.
    Ahhh, but now you're suggesting that anal sex is wrong too since it is not the rectum's job to accept a plowing? Excuse my french, but your logic, my friend, is flawed. Who is who to define what the rectum is allowed to do? Since I'm gay (heh), I guess I can choose to be offended by all this, but I guess I wont

    As for the binders/fillers "ending up there anyway", have you considered stomach acid that dissolves all of that when the pill is taken orally? I've eaten all different colors of pills, and I've never shit out the binders later; it doesn't end up in your ass unless you put it in your ass.
    Ok, so the acid dissolves it. Your stomach acid is not a black hole, it may dissolve the pill, so the binders will be dissolved, but they will not vanish. In fact, think about it, perhaps this is why you never see the colours in your feces? Or did you forget that your feces get their colour from secretions (mainly bile, whose job is, surprise surprise, to emulsify fat-solubles like *ghasp!* benzos in order for them to *ghasp!* be absorbed by the intestines, part of which is *ghasp!* the rectum!?

    As I said, I understand anxiety/panic very well; I spent the better part of a year almost entirely in one room due to severe, multiple daily panic attacks before I finally went out and got prescribed Klonopin for it. I know how horrible anxiety and panic attacks can be, and how desperate the need for something to make it go away can get. I do believe, though, that if your anxiety is so intense that you need to plug your medication because you can't wait the half hour -- or considerably less if you crush it or take it sublingually, which hits faster than anally IIRC -- then you should probably be on a decent medication regimen that does actually control your anxiety. That's not meant to sound preachy or anything, but I know that it's a lot easier for me to take three pills a day and be panic-free 24/7 than to wait until the panic gets so bad that I have to go to fairly dire measures to ease it. But please hear me when I repeat that I know how much of a nightmare it can be between beginning to panic and feeling the benzos kick in. I've spent many a night in the ER sure it was a heart attack because the attacks were that severe. As soon as they put me on Klonopin daily as opposed to a PRN, the panic stopped. If you have terrible anxiety -- which is an absolutely debilitating problem that can seriously fuck your life up -- don't you think maybe you should properly medicate the illness instead of ever GETTING to the point of the "waiting for it to kick in nightmare"?
    I am glad you've never had the misfortune of experiencing a bad trip, my friend .

    I never said that plugging doesn't work, nor did I say it was "gay"'; please do not put words in my mouth.
    When did I say that you said that?? I was saying that this is the general feeling in the community towards plugging.

    I just don't understand why there are quite a few posts here that insist that plugging benzos is either a) a waste of time (could it just perhaps be that what works for some doesn't for others?), b) not worth it, or c) may work with diminished effects.
    It is called mass misinformation. Kinda like how people used to think the earth was flat, you know?

    Obviously plugging the entire pill will take forever to absorb, and by the time it takes to prepare to plug it so that it absorbs more quickly, isn't it conceivable that by then the pill could have simply been eaten?
    Thats why milk is suggested. It takes me 3 minutes to prepare a 2mg clonazepam pill that way (Crush, stir, suck into syringe, squirt), and 15mins for it to kick in. It takes me less than a minute to eat it, but at least an hour to feel it. You do the math.

    I've really looked around this site and others and can find nothing factual saying that benzos are, at the very least, any MORE effective than simply eating them. (I didn't find anything factual saying they could be plugged at all, but again, I am always open to learning and if I'm wrong, so be it and I apologize.) However, I would really like to see some kind of documentation on this topic, beyond what a bunch of people say on a messageboard; you yourself said they're "all wrong" anyway.
    Actually, to my knowledge, there isn't any formal research going on about people who choose to dissolve their pills in milk and squirt that rectally, to my knowledge. It is ultimately up to you to try it for yourself. However F&B gave you some info regarding the practice in veterinary.It really all depends on what you consider "fact" - and it seems to me that you have lots of your "facts" wrong, especially regarding intestinal structure and funtion. I highly recommend you get a general biology or animal physiology textbook (or just look for reliable info online) about the digestive system, and once you learn how it works, you'll know what we are basing our logic on.

    Last edited by Jamshyd; 23-11-2005 at 06:47.
     

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    #20
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    Your rectum's job is to pass feces, not to absorb pills not meant to be taken rectally.
    Er, no. The function of your colon (the last part of the GI tract) is to re-absorb water & electrolytes from the faeces before they are passed from the body - this serves to increase their consistancy and to prevent excessive loss of water & minerals. When you have diarrhoea, you lose excessive water and electrolytes as the faeces don't have time to stay in the colon long enough for said reabsorbtion - that's why if severe you have to take oral rehydrating fluid to replace lost electrolytes.

    As well as absorbing electrolytes, it's pretty good at absorbing any solutions of drugs in their salt form. It has a bloody good blood supply to enable very efficient reabsorbtion, so any solution of a drug squirted up there igets into the main circulation (and as such to the brain) very quickly. While emulsions aren't true solutions, they're close enough such that both the water and fat are absorbed equally quickly, so any benzodiazepine in either an aqueous soln or dissolved in an emulsion gets into the bloodstream pretty quickly. Even so, some benzos are heavily dependant upon active metabolites to exert their full effects so even getting the drug into the bloodstream quickly isn't going to guarentee a quick onset - those benzos are also dependant upon metabolic conversion to a more active metabolite.

    If you want a ref to check, just pick up any degree level physiology text book and look up 'reabsorbtion' & 'colon'
     

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    #21
    Bluelighter psychotiKK's Avatar
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    Like others have said.. sticking benzos up your ass is pointless. It really makes me wonder why so many people want to put certain pills in there.. It would make sense if the drug is only worth taken anally. For example, Morphine has an extremely low ORAL (dont know why I forgot that) bioavailability, so nasal, IV, and anal would be the best routes to take. Albeit, when it comes to benzos, choosing to jam them in your ass is a bit homosexual.
    Last edited by psychotiKK; 26-11-2005 at 06:58.
     

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    #22
    Bluelight Crew Jamshyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychotiKK
    Like others have said.. sticking benzos up your ass is pointless. It really makes me wonder why so many people want to put certain pills in there.. It would make sense if the drug is only worth taken anally. For example, Morphine has an extremely low bioavailability, so nasal, IV, and anal would be the best routes to take. Albeit, when it comes to benzos, choosing to jam them in your ass is a bit homosexual.
    I guess they say that laughing and crying are triggered by the same mechanism for a reason... I am not sure which of either I am doing after reading this...
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter ratherbewater's Avatar
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    I apologize for my mistake re: solubility.

    Anal sex is neither wrong nor right in my opinion; it is a matter to be decided between two consenting people. However, no, the rectum's job does not include being penetrated sexually. It's not about if it's morally okay or not. I am merely stating that the rectum/anus has a purpose, and though it can be and is used for other purposes, that purpose has nothing whatsoever to do with inserting pills, penises, or anything else.

    My logic on this matter is not "flawed". Did I ever say anything about what a person is allowed to do with their rectum, or any other part of their body? No. Did I say that anal sex or plugging pills was wrong? No. It is 100% up to the individual, and it's none of my business what people choose to do with their own bodies and lives so long as it does not affect mine. However, these actions (anal sex, plugging) are NOT what the rectum is intended for -- that's not WHY we have assholes, speaking from a physiological perspective. We all know how the body works; we know how food is digested and we know the rectum's role in that process. Again, people can do whatever they want with their own bodies; I am not against it, and I have done it myself more than once. I am not telling anyone what they are "allowed" to do. I am stating the FACT that plugging pills and having sex are not the intended function of our rectums. That really can't be argued with, but I would appreciate it if you'd stop twisting my words to make me sound as though I'm against the idea of anything being anally inserted. I am entirely in support of every person's right to choose and do not wish to be perceived in any other manner.

    You can choose to be offended, but it would be a miscommunication as illustrated above. As I mentioned, I am bisexual; I have quite a few gay friends, and have been involved in my fair share of anal play, be it sexual or drug-related. A bisexual woman who has indulged in these things, has repeatedly stated that she has NO issue whatsoever with any of it, and who is bisexual herself is telling you in very clear terms that you are misinterpreting me in a big way. I reiterate, I am in NO way anti-gay, so please don't paint a portrait of me as though I am.

    I never claimed that the binders would "vanish". Nothing that goes into our bodies simply "vanishes". However, the actual VISIBLE evidence of the binders in pills are, as you said, masked by the natural color of feces. When plugging a pill, if it does not dissolve, the color of the pill/binders IS visible, because it never went through the process of being digested.

    I've never had a bad trip? You're really quite presumptuous; I don't claim to know what's gone on in your life, so please show me the same courtesy. I've had more than my share of bad trips, more than one of which ended up in a hospital. It is not your place or anyone else's to assume that I've never had a bad trip. I take Klonopin 3 times daily, which is absolutely enough to keep panic at bay given Klonopin's duration. Since I take them regularly, they prevent not just panic attacks but also anticipatory anxiety that often goes along with the attacks. Please enlighten me as to how the fact that I have managed through therapy and proper medication to quell my panic disorder has anything at all to do with whether or not I've had negative drug experiences in my life.

    Fair enough; you did not say that *I* said that. However, read over your comments that I'm presently replying to. You're really quite defensive against a prejudice that I personally do not share. Anyone who believes that rectally administering a pill makes them (or anyone else) gay is, IMO, unforgiveably stupid and narrowminded. If the community generally feels that way, then I am in the minority, and would never say or agree with such ridiculous statements.

    Mass misinformation on threads, all over the site, at least much of which has never been corrected? Far be it from me to tell anyone how to run a site, but on such a board as this one, shouldn't misinformation be stamped out? When it comes to drug use, misinformation can be a very dangerous thing. However, it's not just this board that seems to share what I believe -- thus far; I'm openminded -- and I have yet to be able to find (or seem to get anyone else to bother finding) any sort of proof. If all the people on this site who say this method doesn't work are exhibiting mass misinformation, where's the true information to prove such? Is that really a lot to ask?

    Sometimes I skip a Klonopin dose or more, be it sheer forgetfulness or another cause; I can usually get through about 24 hours, give or take, before I can feel the anxiety creeping in. It takes under a minute to chew my pill up, and (depending on food in my stomach) anywhere from 15-25 minutes before I feel at least enough of the effects for my panic to begin to ebb. I suppose you have quite a slow metabolism, as Klonopin generally does not take an hour to kick in. Listen, whatever works for you, works for you. I'm not asking you to change that and I'm not against it. I am sincerely just trying to find some factual answers, because I like to know things. Surely you won't fault someone for that.

    You have continued to misinterpret my words. You have yet to offer proof. You say my facts are wrong, but you can't seem to explain how or why, or back up your explanation. You insult me and my intelligence. All I want is to have something factual put in front of me that supports your claim; I did not come here to be insulted. I have said over and over that if I am indeed incorrect, I will accept, admit and apologize for it, but as such, no one's proven anything, and you and I seem to be off on the wrong foot, which I find a pity.

    --

    fastandbulbous:

    I am not referring to the colon/intestines/etc. I am referring solely to the anus/rectum, up to the point where one's finger can reach. However, even I *was* talking about the colon, it wouldn't change the fact that its purpose is neither sex nor drug use. I don't need a lesson in what the digestive system does; it DIGESTS, and when it's done, it expels. That's what it's for; that's why it's there. As I've said repeatedly, I have NO issue with anyone who indulges in anything anally beyond biological function and have been down that road myself many times. However, it is inarguable that the anus/rectum/colon does not exist for the purpose of anything that does not have to do with digesting and expelling.

    I came to this site because I respect it. I've seen a lot of brilliant conversation here and have learned a good deal just from browsing this site. However, the hostility level surprises me. I am here to teach what I do know, and to learn what I don't. On a harm reduction board where someone, in this case me, truly wants to understand something and why most everyone disagrees with that something, people could stand to be a little more helpful than telling me to go buy myself a textbook. I don't understand why it seems that no one can provide proof that Klonopin/benzos are able to be plugged, or that if they are, they produce an effect worthy of plugging in the first place. That's really all I want to know, but no one seems to be able to show me a single shred of proof. Instead I get insulted and told to go read up on the colon? I didn't come here to make waves with anyone, and do not wish to continue speaking to anyone here in a negative manner. I am merely stating what I have been taught repeatedly and trying to discuss it here as obviously, some people claim that the opposite of what I've always believed is true; I'm very curious to find out for sure. Isn't that part of why BL exists?

    If neither of you wishes to provide proof, or if you've already decided that being nice to me just isn't on the menu, just let me know and I'll go away. As I said, I came here to learn, teach, and maybe make a few friends, not get into arguments. My intent is not to discredit, be rude to or cause problems with anyone here. I really do hope this can simply be resolved and maybe you'll realize I'm not the bitch I may seem to be.

    --

    psychotikk:

    I have to disagree with the part about it being homosexual. Homosexual activity implies two or more members of the same gender being sexually involved; putting your own finger up your own ass in privacy isn't gay unless you're having an affair with yourself. I sincerely cannot grasp how making a choice to make, say, an ecstasy pill have nearly twice the effect it does orally, by rectally administering it TO YOURSELF, is in any way homosexual. Perhaps you could explain?

    I do agree with you about the bioavailability of Klonopin. You get so much of it orally that it truly seems a waste of time and energy to do anything other than eat the pills, but to each their own.

    As for plugging in general, however, it doesn't make you gay: it produces a more intense, faster-acting high, thereby making your experience better and (depending on the drug) making your drug use more cost-effective.

    What made me bisexual was the fact that I like to screw girls. Putting ecstasy up my ass didn't do anything but make me roll.
     

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    #24
    ^ Holy fucking crap dude, you need to get succinct, I work all day, when it comes to reading posts I don't want war and peace, know what I'm saying?

    Anyway. Because of this thread, I now think pharmacology should be part of high school biology. Drugs must be at least partially lipophillic to act in the brain unless they have an active transport system, otherwise they can't pass through membranes and get into the brain, that's how they make drugs which are peripherally selective. The same is true for the nose.

    In response to the OP, I second most of what Jamshyd said, though I'm not sure if I buy the "lactials" "lymph" story... I just think the clonazepam passes through the membranes of the cells, because thaat's what fat soluble stuff does.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter ratherbewater's Avatar
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    I'm horrifically verbose. I apologize. Feel free to skip my blathering; it's probably not worth your time, anyway. I write a lot, and I type really fast, so I don't notice how much I write until it's already there.

    I just got a little heated because I feel a bit jumped upon, though perhaps I brought it on myself.
     

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