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    LSD Analogues 
    #1
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    ALD-52

    ETH-LAD, 6-ethyl-6-nor-lysergic acid diethylamide is an analogue of LSD. It is described by Alexander Shulgin in the book TIHKAL. ETH-LAD is a hallucinogenic drug similar to LSD, and is slightly more potent than LSD itself with an active dose reported at between 40 and 150 micrograms. ETH-LAD has subtly different effects to LSD, described as less demanding.

    N-Morpholinyllysergamide (LSM-775) is a derivative of ergine. It is reported to have some LSD-like effects at doses ranging from 75 to 700 micrograms.

    D-Lysergic Acid Ethylamide, (LAE-32) is a derivative of ergine. It is reported to have some LSD-like effects but is weaker and shorter lasting, with an active dose reported to be between 0.5 and 1.5 milligrams.

    N-Pyrrolidyllysergamide (LPD-824) is a derivative of ergine. It is reported to have some mild, short lasting LSD-like effects at a dose of 800 micrograms.

    N1-Methyl-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (MLD-41, 9,10-didehydro-N,N-diethyl-1,6-dimethyl-ergoline-8-beta-carboxamide) is a derivative of LSD. The 1-methyl homologue of LSD is has more of somatic than sensory effect, has fewer visuals and is less well accepted than LSD, with the range of dosages being from 100 to 300 micrograms. This indicates that it is perhaps a third the potency of LSD which is in accord with both pupilary dilation and reflex action. However, the cardiovascular responses are actually increased. Besides being less potent than LSD, it appears to have a slower onset but it is equally long lived. There is cross-tolerance between MLD-41 and LSD.

    What's the word on these? Has anyone except a few chemists even tried them?
    Some of them.... (like ALD-52, which isn't in the small list above) have great potential and could be as nice as LSD...
    Last edited by ambush; 11-03-2007 at 19:23.
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    #2
    There just isn't much interest from those people able to obtain very large amounts of LS or ET and do the work-ups to psychedelic ergolines. Eth-LAD is unstable and most people prefer LSD to it. The n-morpholine derivative is supposedly very good, but less potent than LSD. Nick Sand has made most of the XXX-LADs and said none of them were as nice as LSD.

    LSD, on the other hand, is so far the most potent and most well-tolerated and enjoyed by users in the series. There's just not much of a reason for chemists to go anywhere else.
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    #3
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    You didn't mention AL-LAD (6-allyl-6-nor-lysergic acid diethylamide), active at 80-160mcg.

    (with 150 g) "I felt it in less than a quarter hour, and was shooting up past a +++ in another quarter hour. Fast. Just like LSD but without the vaguely sinister push. A little time slowing, randy, no body disturbance. Dropping at six hours and totally tired and going to sleep at twelve hours. I will repeat."

    (with 150 g) "Simply beautiful. Erotic and music absorption after second hour. Clear thinking with superb imagery and good interpretation. Easy, gentle sleeping. Next day -- serene, clear-thinking peacefulness. One of the best materials ever."
    AL-LAD TiHKAL Entry

    I believe all these compounds are similar to LSD in many ways, some are smoother I think. Out of ALD-52, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, LSM-775, LAE-32, LPD-824, and MLD-41, which are specifically scheduled, if any? Are any of the above compounds specifically scheduled, or are they just analogs?
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nuke
    There just isn't much interest from those people able to obtain very large amounts of LS or ET and do the work-ups to psychedelic ergolines. Eth-LAD is unstable and most people prefer LSD to it. The n-morpholine derivative is supposedly very good, but less potent than LSD. Nick Sand has made most of the XXX-LADs and said none of them were as nice as LSD.

    LSD, on the other hand, is so far the most potent and most well-tolerated and enjoyed by users in the series. There's just not much of a reason for chemists to go anywhere else.
    S,S 2,4 dimethyl azetadine analog is a lot stronger. Under UK law, if you took, say, bromocryptine, replaced the 8 N (so it's no longer technically a lysergic acid), make your amide and remove the bromine then at no stage have you made anything illegal. Sec-butyl amide is also as active as LSD. Wonder what mixing the azetadine with an 8-replacement would do? Potentially 4 times stronger than LSD and legal (in many places) to boot. The azetadine is known as Lamda (λ). If you see a blotter with that on it, expect the unexpected..
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    #5
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    LSD, on the other hand, is so far the most potent and most well-tolerated and enjoyed by users in the series. There's just not much of a reason for chemists to go anywhere else.
    Well there is in the UK at least. Lysergic acid morpholide isn't covered by the MoDA, nor any of the other 'catch all' paragraphs added in 1977 and as we don't have any stupid analogue law, a specific compound is either contolled or not
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by haribo1
    The azetadine is known as Lamda (λ). If you see a blotter with that on it, expect the unexpected..
    Has anyone ever tried this?

    Sounds like a ride I'd ride.
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    #7
    Bluelight Crew B9's Avatar
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    expect the unexpected..

    One always ought to expect the unexpected , in my experience anyway !

    Your comment has whetted my appetite and anticipation !
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    #8
    Bluelight Crew willow11's Avatar
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    From Tihkal-
    ALD-52. 1-Acetyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This material has been explored in the 50-175 microgram range and there are a number of human trials reported, with varying conclusions. One found that there was less visual distortion than with LSD and it seems to produce less anxiety and was somewhat less potent than LSD. Another report claimed it was more effective in increasing blood pressure. Yet another could not tell them apart. ALD-52 just may have been the drug that was sold as "Orange Sunshine" during the "Summer of Love" in the late '60's. Or "Orange Sunshine" may have been, really, LSD. This was the focus of a fascinating trial where two defendants were accused of distributing LSD, whereas they claimed that it was ALD-52 which was not an illegal drug. The prosecution claimed that as it hydrolyses readily to LSD, for all intents and purposes it was LSD, and anyway, you had to go through the illegal LSD to get to ALD-52 by any of the known chemical syntheses. The defendants were found guilty. And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester.
    http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...tihkal26.shtml

    What is that acidcan [I]degrade [I] into, thats meant to have more "body load" the others ergolinish magicfungoid secret treasures


    BTW, whats that Shulgin report where it was briefly consider that AMT was the substance of the Acid Tests, not LSD.



    edited for bizarre spelling- anyone up for LSF, new ananlog i just created


    not gonna correct spelling on analog
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    #9
    One notable LSD analogue is missing from this list, PRO-LAD. Its entry in TIHKAL sounds very intruguing

    (with 175 µg, orally) "This is an intellectually clear material, but it is a funny material. I am certainly at a +++ or at least I was a couple of hours ago. How does one describe PRO-LAD? It's not-quite-this and not-quite-that sort of stuff. Or, to borrow from Winnie-the-Pooh, 'It's not at the bottom, and it's not at the top (but this is the stair where I always stop)' -- oh, never mind. I mean, I'm not sure how to categorize this material. It's pleasant, it's fine for fooling around, it's good for humor, even excellent. It's very good for clear thinking, although not cosmic-type particularly. It's a sort of nice, comfortable, middle-American, July-Fourth-Picnic, apple-pie with ice cream sort of psychedelic, the kind that you can wrap up in gold and white striped paper for your youngest aunt, the one who likes to think she's really a bit wild, you know -- the kind of psychedelic that's a bit much for your Dad or Mom, but it's just jazzy enough to keep some younger relatives happy with you for a few months. However, I must tell you, kid, if you try to bring this to the Big Town, well... It is pretty much dropped off, now. Ah'm gonna lie mahself on down."
    Would love to get my hands on this stuff...

    I think the reason these analogues are not available due the fact is that they require LSD as a starting material. Indeed, why bother with synthesis of some obscure analogue when you've got pure LSD on your hands?

    And another point about availability, wikipedia states that some of these analogues (at least ETH and PRO at least) were available through online vendors at some point. Dunno if this is true, but I've never come across anything remotely similar.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by haribo1
    S,S 2,4 dimethyl azetadine analog is a lot stronger. Under UK law, if you took, say, bromocryptine, replaced the 8 N (so it's no longer technically a lysergic acid), make your amide and remove the bromine then at no stage have you made anything illegal. Sec-butyl amide is also as active as LSD. Wonder what mixing the azetadine with an 8-replacement would do? Potentially 4 times stronger than LSD and legal (in many places) to boot. The azetadine is known as Lamda (λ). If you see a blotter with that on it, expect the unexpected..

    Sounds really interesting.

    If you know that synthesis way, I'm sure somebody else with the right equipment already had the idea.

    Are the effects really differents than those of LSD? Stability on blotters?
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    #11
    Bluelight Crew morninggloryseed's Avatar
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    ONe I'd really like to see is FLUOROETH-LSD (6-[2-fluoroethyl]) as Shulgin called it, or the (I bet) superpotent 6-trifluoromethyl-d-nor-LSD.
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by willow11 View Post
    BTW, whats that Shulgin report where it was briefly consider that AMT was the substance of the Acid Tests, not LSD.
    Do you have any more information about this? I also remember reading that it was called IT-290 then.

    I found this: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...tihkal48.shtml

    I have always been intrigued by a fascinating bit of speculation. Ken Kesey, of "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" fame, had his own nest in a log cabin down in La Honda, back in the '60's. This was given fame mostly by Tom Wolfe's "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" where it was well described. At that time, Kesey served as an experimental subject for a number of studies involving psilocybin, Ditran, and a-MT. Shortly after these were completed, he left and took the role of "The Chief" of his band of "Merry Pranksters" who traveled far and wide around the country in the now famous bus, the "Further." The stories of their broad and well advertised use of LSD are legion. I had heard as a rumor that the research supply of a-MT had disappeared at about the same time, and the thought occurred to me that maybe the drug consumed in the tour was not LSD but a-MT. Or maybe today one, and tomorrow the other. I made gentle inquiry of the research director there, whom I knew personally, if this might be so, and his opinion was that the material used by Kesey and the pranksters was probably LSD, as it was so widely available at that time.
    Last edited by PriestTheyCalledHim; 17-04-2010 at 01:32.
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    #13
    Bluelighter kingme's Avatar
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    having just found out about these analogues i am intrigued as well if anyone has ever seen them out there...

    does anyone know of their legal status? or presence on the rc market?
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    #14
    how about the so called pi panes which has made an apperance lately. chemical name given is 7 Ethyl-(S,S) 2,4 dimethyl azetadine but dunno if that is correct or something made up. anyone any real info on it, i couldnt find anything
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    #15
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    ^^ From my research no one has mentioned receiving pi panes or anything else from those that are offering the pi panes. Doesn't seem too hopeful that anyone will end up testing that LSD analog in the near future, though I'm still hoping a TR will surface, however futile my hopes may be...
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    #16
    Bluelighter paigethylamine's Avatar
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    sorry wasnt supposed to ask
    Last edited by paigethylamine; 11-12-2010 at 16:22. Reason: :(
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    #17
    Bluelighter raggedy_acid's Avatar
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    Are there any lsd analogues that would have a similar mass spectrum reading as Lsd?
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    #18
    Very interested in that, aswell as if piperonal would be used in the synthesis of any of the analougs. Recently someone sent the Alex Grey/Ganesha prints to a lab for testing and they came back with LSD and trace amounts of piperonal. I, aswell as others, have suspected these tabs of being analougs already. Would the presence of piperonal be an indication of any lysergic analoug that could possibly show up as LSD by their tests. I imagine they aren't yet equipped to determine between LSD and its analouges at these labs.
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    #19
    There's no use for piperonal in LSD analog synthesis. It depends on the test but they should be able to distinguish most analogs from LSD. Maybe the people making it are also making MDA and somehow got some solvent or something contaminated with piperonal.
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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Mad Hatter View Post
    Very interested in that, aswell as if piperonal would be used in the synthesis of any of the analougs. Recently someone sent the Alex Grey/Ganesha prints to a lab for testing and they came back with LSD and trace amounts of piperonal.
    Piperonal is used to make inks and perfume. Perhaps that is what is to blame for the widely reported perfume like taste from those tabs.
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    #21
    This is exactly what we were thinking, but I also believe the taste is used to cover up some other taste that might be involved.
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    #22
    ive been reading about the Leonard Pickard silo lab, apparently they were developing an "LSZ" ? but the yield was too low to cover the production costs, so mass production was found inefficient, and abandoned

    anyone know anything about this analogue ?
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    #23
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    been a while since i've read the Pickard files, but I think that is the 7 Ethyl-(S,S) 2,4 dimethyl azetadine mentioned above.
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    #24
    Yo any news on availability by RC vendors? I don't see why some of these aren't produced and sold in the UK. I appreciate they're hard to make therefore would cost a lot but if clandestine chemists can do it with acid why not legitimate labs with these? I reckon they'd definately be bought even at extortionate prices seeing as acid's hard to find and quite pricey and hell I'd even buy it if it cost more out of pure curioisity.
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    #25
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    i heard from a good friend that AL-LAD has recently been made available. the skeptic in me finds this hard to believe considering from what i gather, its a difficult chem to make, and starts w nor-lsd in its recipe in tIhkal...but i am no chemist by any means so you never know.

    theres been a good few reports on it floating around here and there in the last couple months too, so we shall see.
    *fingers crossed*
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