Just wondering on the potency of this drug. Read various experience reports of it being 5-6 more potent than methaqualone. Effective dose being about 50mg. whereas methaqualone is 300-600mg
Also, I'm aware its covered under the analog law in the US, but what is the current legal status of this chemical in the UK?
Few threads on bl 
wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylmethaqualone
At blacklight some german papers have been posted that discuss it. If I read it accurately, it's equipotent, nowhere near 5x.
Do you have a reference?
I find it a bit weird that so many people are reporting a recreational dose of 50-100mg.
Well I found 150mg of methaqualone sufficient for me. 300mg (which is what your figs suggest is a full dose) is a simple case of 'go to bed now. Do not pass Go, do not collect a cup of cocoa'
Did everyone that tasted this substance disappear? No follow up on effects and no TRs...
Even if the methyl group has a negligible effect on potency, i wonder how it will effect euphoria, (a methyl group on amphetamine does not change the dose (at least when used therapeutically ) but causes a significant increase in euphoric effects. its unfortunate since only a handful of people hear have tried methaqualone for comparison so most wont even know what the new compound is up against.
The dose is high, as is the price, so unless this produces some staggering euphoria i could see it falling off the market.
I've read this german review of methaqualone-derivatives (Ham-milton mentioned it already somewhere), including the 2',4'-dimethylphenyl-analogue, if this is the one you refer to with "methylmethaqualone" (methyl-where??). I've choosen especially this one because it's the formula from one of the stated refs in the opening post
They've done experiments with mice. The ED for this particular methylmethaqualone derivative is in fact higher than for plain methaqualone (measured by the value for the "hypnosis"-part within "general "sedation"). But it's also one of the very few in this article, that have stated as footnote: "apparent arousal during hypnosis". Maybe a hint for particular euphoric effects?! Or just cramps?
Murphy is thinking aloud...
perhaps it caused spontaneous human combustion as an unfortunate side effect and every taster was incinerated before they could post a TR?
Originally Posted by hamhurricane
I think that's the most likely explanation. That or they were industry stooges..
...ok ok...I've read again and pondered a bit more...
What is really interesting: From these "very few" derivatives that I mentioned before, all have a somehow similar substitution pattern:
2'-Me, 4'-Cl (3)
2'-Me, 4'-Cl again, this time with the methyl group at pos. 2 being an ethyl (67)
2'-CF3, 4'-Br (46)
2'-Me, 3'-I (55)
2'-Me, 4'-F (52)
(numbers in parentheses are the referring numbers from that article. For the ones who got it at hand... )
My conclusion on the 1st sight: An unpolar, aprotic, not too big extension at the phenyl-ring at pos. 2',3' or 2',4' (remember: plain Methaqualone got just the 2'-Me) is favourable for the aforementioned "apparent arousal during hypnosis" (original quote: "während der Hypnose deutliche Erregung").
Replacement of the 2'-Me for a 2'-NH2 (42) does the same here. Interestingly, this substitution pattern shows similar potency in all measured fields, being: antikonvulsive action against
a) electroshock induced convulsions
b) pentetrazol induced one
sedation measured by
(44) is an interesting exception as far as it lacks the 2'-substituent. Apart from the fact that it stimulated the arousal, the needed effective dose is higher.
Further exceptions (compounds that didn't produce arousal during hypnosis) were:
This gives a very fascinating SAR so far, although I have to admit that mice aren't men. But somewhere, you have to start drawing conclusions.
Last edited by MurphyClox; 08-05-2008 at 21:52.
I fear, that's the only serious SAR on methaqualone. Don't remember the exact date of origin again, 60s I'd guess. Old for sure. Unfortunately there's nothing new is sight, as far as methaqualone is obsolete in most parts of the world (for medicinal use) due to addiction liability. Fuck it!
Well mice certainly aren't men. Primates aren't always much better in regards to comparitive assessment:
Originally Posted by MurphyClox
(I know, I know - straying off topic but many of us are inclined to assume a high degree of genetic similarity with monkeys and yet...)
There is a high degree of genetic similarity, depending on which species you're looking at.
Chimps are about 95% similar (usually we hear the 98-99% number, that's only looking for substitutions, not deletions or insertions).
It's a really complicated area of study in itself. I don't understand these 'endogenous retroviruses' at all.
I remember Ham and I, along with other bluelighters pondering this in an earlier thread. Before the paper was posted there was an interesting discussion about how a methyl group affects potency if anyone is interested.
The dose is at least 150mg, i can attest to that. The methy-methaqualone that went around 'before' loooked like a bathtub synth and had came from dodgy sorts, so who knows what was really in it, IMO it looked like to separate powders mixed (one brown, one white).
By the way, the HCL as seriously hard to smoke, i'm a 20/day cig smoker and there was no way i could get any down, also snorting it was aking to snorting 4-FA mixed with ketamine (short extremely sharp burn but with no lingering effects).
would it be somethin worth investing in??
Originally Posted by slopoke
i've been pondering getting some for a while but can't quite decide!
Its always worth a go, for the novelty. I'll report back once i've had a couple of larger doses.
Tried small amount sub-lingual and it burned my tongue and under it, this is HCL by the way. It gave me nightmares, weird ones at that!!!
@slopoke: Indeed really interesting. May I ask about duration?
Murphy- to be honest, i'm not sure about the duration, i think its quite long, but the main effects only last 4-6 hours, the residuals seem to last a lot longer. I felt 'wobbly' for maybe 10 hours.
Someone who tried 300mg last night had a seizure, i think this compound holds too many risks, i'm not going to be trying it again. I would warn everyone else to do the same.
The seizure was very much like when i saw someone have a seizure on GBL, we had to call an ambulance but by the time someone saw him in hospital he was coming round from it and he discharged himself.
Thanks man, such words of caution are sometimes rarely seen, even if it's necessary. I think 300 mg are a bit too much. As there are not so much SAR-studies out there (vide supra) it is difficult to point out an exact dosage.
Potency of additional methyl is thought to be roughly comparable (or lower, depending on the methyl position) than for plain methaqualon. And for the plain one, 150-200 mg are enough. Methaqualone and derivatives (at least most, albeit not all!) inhibit seizures at medicinal doses but when applying higher doses they cause seizures. Therefore, what your friend experienced was not unexpected. Luckily, he is walking again!
hmm, slopoke your material sounds *sketchy* at best (can we say a higher potency benzo mixed into some regular methaqualone). lol that is what I would expect from your description and this would also account for the increased potency.
I have seen conflicting reports as to the potency of m-methaqualone. I suspect it may be highly variable in humans due to differences in enzymes (personal biochemistry and whatnot).
I would expect to start low with this one and work up (same with 'regular' methaqualone too).
peace and stay safe,
The stuff has been properly tested (HPLC) and was definately mmq
Thanks for the warning slopoke. I have epilepsy and though I was always careful with GBL dosing, it did result in a couple of seizures after use. If there is the slightest chance that methylmethaqualone could cause another seizure (be it the result of an incorrect synth being passed off as genuine or the 'real deal')...my curiousity dies here.
Besides...I see hype but no real howls of endorsement.
Incorrect synth is (nearly) not possible. OK, something can always happen but the methaqualone-synth is quite easy (no details here due to forum rules).
Seizures similar to the ones of epilepsy are very likely at higher doses. I guess, people with a predisposition (like your already present illness) may react at a lower dosage. I agree with you: You curiosity should die here.
...I guess, because it was taken from the commercial market (at least in most western countries), sources are scarce nowadays. Stories about the notorious "luding out" are common, for example @Erowid: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth...aqualone.shtml
Originally Posted by SpellmanT7
I think, there you'll find your "howls".
slopoke can you elaborate on the effects, was the euphoria worthwhile or even existent?
this chem was given to a friend, and despite warnings it seems they are going to let curiosity get the best of them and try a 100mg dose orally.
100 mg are OK for the beginning, albeit 20-50 mg just for a first test are recommended.
Edit: NO NO NO! Mistake! 100 mg are anything but OK and will get you into serious trouble...stay away from this substance!!!
Last edited by MurphyClox; 23-05-2008 at 15:34.