Bluelight

Thread: How bad is opiate withdrawal ?

Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 260
  1. Collapse Details
    How bad is opiate withdrawal ? 
    #1
    Greenlighter
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    33
    I have just finished reading a book called Romancing Opiates by Dr Theodore Dalrymple in which he claims that withdrawal from opiates including heroin is no more than a minor discomfort.

    Doctor Dalrymple has worked in what he describes as a slum area and the prison service and has a lot of experience with drug addicts.

    According to the doctor addicts greatly exaggerate the suffering of withdrawal to con doctors into prescribing opiates.

    But the book contains contradictions as it also describes the desperate measures some addicts will go to get a fix. Why are they so compelled if withdrawal is such a minor thing to endure.

    Never having been addicted to opiates I cannot make a judgment about the accuracy of the book.

    I would be interested in the views of people who have been through opiate withdrawal - has the doctor got it right or is he wrong?
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Bluelighter Artificial Emotion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK (Kent)
    Posts
    5,075
    That's amazing that he can actually say something like that. I would say its the most unimaginably unpleasant experience I have had that is similar to the flu so I have been told. You can't sleep, you can't eat and you can't sit still. It's like hell on earth and I have been close to suicide whilst in WD.

    He most definitely is WRONG.

    Of course it has to be pointed out that the intensity of WD can vary depending on the extent of one's physical dependence. Someone with relatively small habit might indeed only experience 'minor discomfort'. I actually feel quite insulted by his claim. Opiate WD is nothing to take lightly.
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    I wished with all my heart that we could just...leave this world behind. Rise like two angels in the night and magically...disappear.
    Posts
    47,656
    It's a lot more than a minor discomfort, I'll say that much.
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    Bluelighter psychedelic nod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    north jersey
    Posts
    445
    its much worse than the flu
    its like the flu, with extreme depression and anxiety, with restless legs (insanely uncomfortable) total insomnia, sweats and chills, and diarhea
    i personally find that the depression is worst, its complete apathy for life mixed with hopelessness and suicidal thoughts, it also makes time go by REALLY slow so it feels like your 4 days of withdrawal are 4 centuries

    withdrawal is definetly not minor, but this sort of information is typical from doctors who claim to have anuthority. You really can't talk about withdrawal until you experience it firsthand
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    The only reason he can claim this is because he's a doctor and has never been through withdrawals himself
    He's terribly wrong.
    But, like Artificial Emotion said, this is obviously subjective depending on the severity of the person's habit in regards as to how bad it is. Though it's no fucking walk in the park either
    I do sometimes think that it's going to be much worse than it turns out to be, though I'm still plagued by restless limbs, horrible depression, waking up multiple times a night in cold sweats, anxiety, Exploding head syndrome, nasty muscle aches, lethargy, complete disinterest in all activities etc etc etc etc....
    So he can stick some Opium in his pipe n smoke it
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    Bluelighter pallidamors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bankailorado
    Posts
    7,237
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient_Hippy View Post

    According to the doctor addicts greatly exaggerate the suffering of withdrawal to con doctors into prescribing opiates.
    I think right here is the statement that shows the good doctor is, in fact, full of shit. There are many addicts who voluntarily go through withdrawal in order to...you guessed it...quit opiates! In this case, there would be no reason for them to exaggerate their symptoms since they are not going to attempt to get any opiates out of the experience.

    Its not as if these users feign that the symptoms are worse than they are in order to con friends and loved ones into prescribing sympathy, or that addicts who are quitting suddenly come clean and say, "Hey guys, remember when I couldn't score last week and I was throwing up just from smelling a cigarette and shitting uncontrollably? I was JK about that!! Good one, hey!"

    I haven't read this book, but if the author makes sweeping generalizations like "ALL addicts experience only minor discomfort from withdrawal and all of them exaggerate symptoms in order to get drugs," then I doubt I would want to waste my time. Quite often when literature on addiction makes such broad statements without allowing for individual differences, or even basic human decency on the part of an addict, the author is selling a treatment, at least so I've found. Search BL for tips on beating withdrawals and you'll get a good idea of the types of symptoms that opiate addicts endure, and I think you'll get a decent feel for the fact that its definitely worse than a mild discomfort.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    Red face
    That doctor is out of his mind.

    I've experienced the worst of the worst W/D from pods and oxy. To give you an example of the sickness: Flu symptoms x 100, aching bones/muscles, runny nose/crying, restless leg (Extremely bad), headache, restlessness, anxiety, extreme craving for a fix or death ( I was in agony). All this lasting at least a week.

    There's a lot more to it but you get the gist of it. Opiate withdrawal's only rival is possibly benzos.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    I'd be interested to see the doctor's methodology in this one, since common logic would dictate that his statement doesn't even make sense. The exaggeration of such symptoms alone is a mental symptom of the addiction. The addict wouldn't be exaggerating if he/she wasn't an addict.

    Furthermore, you cannot exaggerate explosive diarrhea and vomiting.

    I would like to see some sort of study of 1000+ former heroin addicts (with at least a full year clean) who used a bag+ a day for a period of year+ and then were forced to quit CT. See what they tell you about w/d's now... and these are people who have nothing to gain by exaggerating.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    Bluelighter Opiate 420's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Below the Heavens
    Posts
    1,711
    Minor discomfort, I WISH

    There are no words to describe what W/D feels like, that's how bad it is
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pallidamors View Post

    I haven't read this book, but if the author makes sweeping generalizations like "ALL addicts experience only minor discomfort from withdrawal and all of them exaggerate symptoms in order to get drugs," then I doubt I would want to waste my time.
    The authors "thesis" is that opiates have been romanticized by everyone from users to psychologists to the DEA. He doesn't believe in physical addiction or maintenance programs and in fact doesn't believe opiates are euphoric, he thinks they are just slightly sedating. He claims addicts have been romanticized and they in turn have bought into the cultural delusion of opiate addiction and euphoria, he thinks the real draw of opiates if the culture and lifestyle of users.
    I think he also had some stuff about how the problem of opiate recreational use and addiction is non existent in some cultures.

    He had some good observations but the conclusions he comes to are horseshit.
    Reply With Quote
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    these type of opinions in the professional community are part of the reason addicts are TORTURED in jails and prisons.

    This man is irresponsible for suggesting that withdrawal is a walk in the fucking park. Beyond being sharp pain all over the body the GI issues can be seriously physiologically damaging.

    Maintainnance makes living life very challenging for a lot of addicts just trying to get by.
    Nobody would willingly complicate their life so seriously if kicking the drugs was as easy as a broken arm or bronchitis. It's the most uncomfortable experience all in all I've ever had, it includes weeks of sleeplessness and dysfunction so dramatic that function as a normal adult in society is made damn near impossible.


    a minor discomfort? jesusfuckingchrist.
    Reply With Quote
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    IMO withdrawal is brutal and anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't been there or wasn't using that heavily. Someone will probably try to shank me for generalizing but I don't see how anyone could go through an experience like that and call it minor discomfort.
    Reply With Quote
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Bluelighter Cocorosie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    156
    I say we all pitch in and buy an oz. of dope. I'll kidnap the doctor and we'll lock him in my basement and shoot him up for a few months and then completely cut him off. Then we'll see how he feels. Actually, when we cut him off we'll stick him and jail, too.

    Real talk - I burnt my left arm and hand and was in a burn unit for a few months. I had a habit so all the pain meds they gave me was useless. I was in constant pain throughout all my surgery's and skin graphs. I would rather be burnt again than to go through WD. Trust and believe.
    Reply With Quote
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Deep South, USA
    Posts
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocorosie View Post
    I say we all pitch in and buy an oz. of dope. I'll kidnap the doctor and we'll lock him in my basement and shoot him up for a few months and then completely cut him off. Then we'll see how he feels. Actually, when we cut him off we'll stick him and jail, too.
    Hahahahaha, I was going to suggest something similar!

    Ya know, I had one of the "tamer" opiate habits of the ones I have read about on this board, and withdrawals were still purely horrendous. Going on close to a year later, I look back sometimes and wonder how I made it through.

    This "doctor" has some agenda he is trying to advance, and I second the above poster who would like to take a look at his methodology. What a crock of shit. That's a book I don't think I need to read, as his statement about opiate w/d, to me, is so erroneous that it would make me question anything else he has to say.
    Reply With Quote
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    Bluelighter QuasiStoned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,389
    Wow, WD's are just minor discomfort? What a crock of shit.
    Reply With Quote
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    prison doctor unsympathetic? shocking.
    Reply With Quote
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    Bluelighter Krowsnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond va
    Posts
    406
    He was studying people in prison... A lot of them are just tough sons of bitches who can either block it out or hide it. Withdrawing in prison is a common thing and I'm sure a lot would take measures to not appear vulnerable.
    Reply With Quote
     

  18. Collapse Details
     
    #18
    WRONG!
    i don't even know how that book got published, it's so full of shit.
    Reply With Quote
     

  19. Collapse Details
     
    #19
    Greenlighter
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    33
    Thank you for the response - you have completely answered my question. Doctor Dalrymple has got it wrong - opiate withdrawal clearly causes intense suffering.


    I think I know the source of the Doctor’s error - he is a general physician not an addiction specialist or a psychologist - when he examines addicts in withdrawal he just looks at physical symptoms which he describes as “flu like”. He doesn’t appear to have any interest in, or awareness of the patient’s psychological state. As several people have mentioned it’s the psychological aspects - depression, anxiety etc that make withdrawal such a nightmarish experience.


    One of the doctor’s assertions is that opiate withdrawal is in no way harmful but several people have commented on suicidal thoughts experienced in withdrawal - some patients at least might act on those thoughts - clearly then withdrawal can be dangerous for some patients.


    Doctor Dalrymple prides himself on providing no medication whatsoever for his addicted patients and he suggests that all addiction clinics, methadone programmes etc should be shut down as they are a waste of taxpayers’ money.

    I believe Doctor Dalrymple has retired from his position of prison doctor - I imagine his departure was not mourned by his addicted patients.


    That said don’t let me put you off Doctor Darlymple’s books he is usually an astute observer of social problems and writes with an elegance that rivals George Orwell - though be warned his political views are as far to the right as Orwell was to the left. It’s disappointing that Doctor Dalrymple’s customary insight seems to have failed him when writing Romancing Opiates.
    Reply With Quote
     

  20. Collapse Details
     
    #20
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,572
    It gets right up my nose when people compare WD to the Flu.

    Its nothing similar, imo. Maybe they share some symptoms but if you stand back and look at the 2 - then its clear that they are massively different.

    Do doctor REALLY think that if WD was just like flu, then junkies would be out robbing and theiving to fix it?
    Reply With Quote
     

  21. Collapse Details
     
    #21
    Bluelighter Cocorosie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    156
    That's like comparing indigestion to a heart attack. Sure, both can make your chest hurt, but one is way more severe. The flu does not come with the worst depression ever, either.
    Reply With Quote
     

  22. Collapse Details
     
    #22
    Bluelighter Cocorosie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    156
    This is my 100th post. Whip-ee
    Reply With Quote
     

  23. Collapse Details
     
    #23
    Bluelighter newbie22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    332
    LOL I think we can close this thread now. Unless we want another 100 posts of...."NO IT'S NOT, IT'S THE WORST EVER". Yeah it's pretty bad, but we brought it on ourselves. Just detox and you won't have to worry about it. If you aren't disciplined enough to detox then be ready to suffer your own consequences...
    Reply With Quote
     

  24. Collapse Details
     
    #24
    People who do not have first hand experience with addiction or treating addicts spread myths like this. The 'it's like a bad flu' line is a watered down version of the same idea.

    Opioid acute withdrawal syndrome is a unique physical and psychological condition that cannot be compared to anything. It is in its own category.

    Panic inducing paranoia and anxiety, suicidal obsessions, shitting your pants, unable to lie down still or sleep for days at a time, etc.

    You know, typical flu-like symptoms

    EDIT:

    To add, people like the author of your lovely book are promoting (consciously or not) the debunk "moral model of addiction". The theory that drug addiction is a moral failure, a sign of immorality, anti-social behavior, psychosis, deviency and degeneracy, lack of will power, lack of inner strength, etc.

    The idea that withdrawal syndrome is in fact not very serious promotes this debunk moral model by trying to remove the physiological aspects of addiction.

    If withdrawal isn't that bad or serious, then opioid addiction isn't really a physical or psychological dysfunction/illness-disease. That means, to them, that it is proof that addiction is a moral failure, sign of immorality, etc.

    The disease model of addiction is the currently most accepted theory to modern science. In other words, that book you've got is good for toilet paper and little else. Anti-addict propaganda, dehumanizing police-state promoting bullshit.

    Yeah it's pretty bad, but we brought it on ourselves. Just detox and you won't have to worry about it. If you aren't disciplined enough to detox then be ready to suffer your own consequences...
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Refer to the above about he moral model.

    If 'detox' were the "cure" for opioid addiction, why do people relapse? Continue to feel physiological cravings and delayed acute withdrawal symptoms? Continue to display tolerance to doses of narcotics for months?

    Oh of course, it mustn't be a physical / physiological disease, it has to be simply a moral failure and lack of willpower. If only you were a good enough person, you could force your body and mind to act in a white heterosexual Protestant fashion as God intended.
    Last edited by Tchort; 20-06-2009 at 01:35.
    Reply With Quote
     

  25. Collapse Details
     
    #25
    Bluelighter Cocorosie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mars
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by newbie22 View Post
    Yeah it's pretty bad, but we brought it on ourselves. Just detox and you won't have to worry about it. If you aren't disciplined enough to detox then be ready to suffer your own consequences...
    Are you serious? We brought it on ourselves so it's no big deal? If you smoke cigarettes and get cancer it's no big deal, suffer the consequences.
    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •