(This is anecdotal stuff that I feel could shed light on the metabolic
characteristics of bupe. )
Although we have a plethora of science available to us
concerning our favorite chemicals, there is still a factor x that we do not know
about given chemicals. In my Taking of them I take this into account.
Well with my suboxone I had a hunch.
I've always wondered what happened to the bupe when taken via the oral
route. From my experience inducing cyp450/3A4 with bupe I am a believer that
norbupe crosses the BBB and has an effect. An effect exactly as described in
the literature. (ie; more agonist than bupe but not quite as affintive. If that's a word)
Well I wondered "well why don't I just swallow my whole dose, if orally more would be turned into norbuprenorphine?"
Well that is where I was wrong.
I had read that Bupe-glucruonide was more antagonist than bupe. But as with norbupe there was still plenty that wasn't known.
I wondered recently if upon swallowing the spit that's probably filled with 30-40% of the total dose that I took (or more) that most of it was turned not into norbupe but bupe-g (and norbupe-g).
So I stopped swallowing my suboxone.
And suddenly I am pinned like I wasn't before, I am itchy like I want before.
Well no, I feel like I usually feel the first hour after my daily dose, but all day. Meaning, that it seems by swallowing my bupe I was ending whatever warmth I was feeling.(and I did feel it foR 30-45 min after dosing).
Now that I don't swallow, I feel all day what I used to feel for 30 min.
That is, much more classic agonist.
There is not much science to prove what I am saying. There may even be science to go agaisnt it, I don't know. But my pin point pupils don't lie. They aren't being placeboed. And my wife suddenly thinks I'm taking something. I look high now.
I am on 32mg of bupe a day. I know there is a wisdom that says low dose bupe is best. And that may be.
But to get the most of my dose, I now am strictly not swallowing.(ha ha, yeah yeah)
I have been on it for 4 years and for me to suddenly be getting this effect is not usual.
I still induce my 3A4 and still take p-gp inhibitors even though norbupe hasn't been
Id'd as a substrate of p-gp(as far as I know). I find vitamin a(retinyl, dry vitamin a) to be helpful. It reduces expression of p-gp.
And garlic to induce. (I will soon be trying tergretol and primidone for 3A4 and verampril for p-gp. Will let you know. I likely will shy away from the primidone, who wants to be perpetually tired. But low dose tegretol should induce.
Anyway, just wanted to let folks know of what I found.
Like I said, I always assume that there will be some science that is wrong and quite a bit that isn't yet known. Acting according to that belief led me to this pleasant discovery. Don't swallow your suboxone spit. It may be turning into too much bupe-g and norbupe-g.
(now, the bupe that makes it in sublingually will STILL have some conversion to bupe/norbupe-g. I think the receptors are not flooded with it like they are if the oral route works on the bupe. )
It's more alchemy than science, more gut than proof.
But the proof for me is in the pins.
Oh I forgot to mention last month I took lots of sub throughout a day. I kept swallowing it quickly just to see what would happened. I basically swallowed 48 mg without much tounge time. At the end of the day I had the shits for the first time in year and was mildly sick.
I didn't connect it then, but thinkng back on it now, If my theory that oral bupe turns largely And principly to bupe-g(more antagonist than not) than I basically went into withdrawl from swallowing my doses instead of sublingual route. (and It wasn't the level, I take 5 or 6 quite frequently and never feel like I did that Night. )
just thought that this was anecdotal stuff that is important to our understanding of bupe metabolism.