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    Snorting the New Generic Subutex??? 
    #1
    I know there is a thread for generic subutex, but since this is a specific question, and not a general discussion of generic subutex, I thought I should make a new thread.

    I was wondering what people think about snorting the generic subutex pill. I have been on the name-brand subutex for over a year, and have always snorted it (I only take around 1mg, so there is not that much powder to snort).

    However, I just recently picked up a script for generic subutex since it's so much cheaper, and Im wondering if anyone has tried snorting these generic pills, and how it compares to snorting the name-brand.

    For those who have snorted these generics, do you find it to be any better/worse then snorting the name-brands? Any info about harmful or dangerous binders/fillers which may be in the new generics that were not in the name-brands? Thanks-DG
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    #2
    The inactive ingredients are essentially the same between the two. The biggest difference I see would be the larger size of the generics that I have seen discussed.
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BollWeevil View Post
    The inactive ingredients are essentially the same between the two. The biggest difference I see would be the larger size of the generics that I have seen discussed.
    Oh really? For some reason I was under the impression that the generics contained very differernt inactives. For instance, I thought that the generic subutex contained a good amount of talc, while the brand-name do not. Is this incorrect?- DG
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    #4
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddysgone View Post
    Oh really? For some reason I was under the impression that the generics contained very differernt inactives. For instance, I thought that the generic subutex contained a good amount of talc, while the brand-name do not. Is this incorrect?- DG
    I think whoever reported that in the Subutex is now Generic thread is incorrect, the ingredients are similar to the brand name pills. I am not 100% sure. If someone could post the active & inactives on them it would be helpful.
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    #5
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    http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...d.php?p=352337

    read post number two, 4th paragraph

    Even though they petitioned for it, I do not know if they indeed did use the same inactives.
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    #6
    Roxane inactives: anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate.

    R&B inactives: lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate, FD&C Yellow No.6 color, magnesium stearate, and for flavoring, Acesulfame K sweetener and a lemon-lime flavor
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BollWeevil View Post
    Roxane inactives: anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate.

    R&B inactives: lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate, FD&C Yellow No.6 color, magnesium stearate, and for flavoring, Acesulfame K sweetener and a lemon-lime flavor
    Ahh thanks for that. That was exactly the info I was looking for.

    So it appears as though the generic and the brand-name are quite similar in terms of inactive ingredients. So it stands to reason that if brand name subutex is effetive and ok to insuffilate, the generic should be as well.-DG
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    #8
    Bluelight Crew sixpartseven's Avatar
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    ^ Those 2 lists are completely different. What about them makes you think they are similar?

    Quote Originally Posted by BollWeevil View Post
    Roxane inactives: anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate.

    R&B inactives: lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate, FD&C Yellow No.6 color, magnesium stearate, and for flavoring, Acesulfame K sweetener and a lemon-lime flavor
    Um, the first list is correct, but the second list is for Suboxone, not Subutex.

    As for the original question, yes, they are fine to snort.
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    #9
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    this thread makes me happy. my doctor is going to think about switching me over.

    keeping my fingers crossed!
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sixpartseven View Post
    ^ Those 2 lists are completely different. What about them makes you think they are similar?



    Um, the first list is correct, but the second list is for Suboxone, not Subutex.

    As for the original question, yes, they are fine to snort.
    Oh, so the first list he provided is a list of inactives of subutex, but the second list he gave is a list of the inactives of suboxone?

    If thats the case then this list does not help me.

    Can anyone provide a list which lists the inactive ingredients of the brand name subutex, and then list the inactive ingredients of generic subutex? That is obviously the pertinent information which would allow one to compare the differences regarding the inactives between the brand name and generic subutex, and would consequently help provide an answer to whether they would be comparable in terms of ability/safety to insuffilate.

    Ingredient lists aside, the consensus is that the generics are effective and reasonably safe to insuffilate, comparable to the brand-name subutex?-DGH
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    #11
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddysgone View Post
    Oh, so the first list he provided is a list of inactives of subutex, but the second list he gave is a list of the inactives of suboxone?

    If thats the case then this list does not help me.

    Can anyone provide a list which lists the inactive ingredients of the brand name subutex, and then list the inactive ingredients of generic subutex? That is obviously the pertinent information which would allow one to compare the differences regarding the inactives between the brand name and generic subutex, and would consequently help provide an answer to whether they would be comparable in terms of ability/safety to insuffilate.

    Ingredient lists aside, the consensus is that the generics are effective and reasonably safe to insuffilate, comparable to the brand-name subutex?-DGH
    The inactive ingredients of Subutex and Suboxone are essentially the same, except Subutex does not have the coloring, the sweetener, and the flavoring. I think that's the only difference, I am not 100% sure but I can basically assert that they both have magnesium stearate and povidone K30, so I am sure the rest are the same (minus the coloring/sweetener/flavoring).
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    #12
    Bluelight Crew sixpartseven's Avatar
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    I think CH is right about Subutex and Suboxone essentially being the same (I'm not 100% sure though), but, daddysgone, even still, the inactives are completely different in comparison to the generic. I mean, look at those two lists. The only similar one is lactose.
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    #13
    Bluelight Crew sixpartseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelung
    what do the new generics look like?
    Like a pill? Come on, dude, Google it. Is it really so hard to search on your own that you have to ask us to do it for you? Just so you know, I did just Google it and it took 4 seconds to find (less than the time it took for you to post that). I'm not showing you the results though. Do it yourself.
    Last edited by sixpartseven; 29-01-2010 at 04:39. Reason: nice try
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sixpartseven View Post
    I think CH is right about Subutex and Suboxone essentially being the same (I'm not 100% sure though), but, daddysgone, even still, the inactives are completely different in comparison to the generic. I mean, look at those two lists. The only similar one is lactose.
    What are you looking at? The only difference (besides the flavoring and coloring, which I didn't mean to copy) is povodine > crospovodine, which is what I meant by "essentially the same"...
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    #15
    Bluelight Crew sixpartseven's Avatar
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    Oh wow, how the hell did I miss all that? lol I have no idea what I was thinking. Sorry, dude.
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    #16
    ^ All good!
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    #17
    Bluelight Crew sixpartseven's Avatar
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    I think I was reading and comparing them in order for some reason, so when they didn't match up, I thought that they were totally different. I honestly have no idea what I was doing, but admittedly, I must not have been paying much attention at the time. Or maybe when I saw that the second one was for Suboxone, I became too focused on that and didn't pay attention to the rest. I really don't know.

    lol again, I'm sorry man.
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    #18
    ^Don't sweat it, man... I misread stuff all the time!
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    #19
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    Iv done name brand Subutex for years and would love to continue to do it if I had the extra money to spend on it, I like the name brand alot better than the generics for a few reasons but the biggist one is that they are much easier to disolve in water or even under your tounge than the generic Roxane labs brand. I dont even know about sniffing them, but they are hard as hell to break up( the generics that is).
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by thugpassion View Post
    Iv done name brand Subutex for years and would love to continue to do it if I had the extra money to spend on it, I like the name brand alot better than the generics for a few reasons but the biggist one is that they are much easier to disolve in water or even under your tounge than the generic Roxane labs brand. I dont even know about sniffing them, but they are hard as hell to break up( the generics that is).
    yeah i totally agree with you about how easy they dissolve. The name brands are what Ive always gotten and will continue to get as long as i have health insurance. As for the diff ingredients of both, I know that the generics do contain talc and the brand names contain corn mill which makes it easier to pull up in the syringe when IVing. As for snorting, Ive never snorted either of them but have seen people snort all of them and the general opinion from what Ive seen is the the generics burn more than the name brands. I also seem to get more of a buzz after injecting the name brand which is nice.
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    subutex 
    #21
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    i just switched to the generic subutex and i also sniff them it is the same thing nothing different generic pills are the same as name brand its all the same chemicals...people are just fuckin
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    #22
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbod33 View Post
    i just switched to the generic subutex and i also sniff them it is the same thing nothing different generic pills are the same as name brand its all the same chemicals...people are just fuckin
    You are actually incorrect, the generic version doesn't have Povidone K30. Brand name Subutex and Suboxone do.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    You are actually incorrect, the generic version doesn't have Povidone K30. Brand name Subutex and Suboxone do.
    Correct.
    This info has been posted elsewhere but I thought I would post a side by side comparison of inactive ingredients of brand name subutex vs. the generic roxane pills.

    Brand name Original Subutex:
    Inactive Ingredients: lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate and magnesium stearate

    Generic (Roxane):
    Inactive Ingredients: anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate

    So as you can see, both pills have corn starch. Many people have stated that the generics are talc based, but as you can see this is not the case, they are both corn starch based.
    The main difference seems to be that the original Subutex contains povidone k30, while the generics contains crospovidone as well as povidone.
    For those that shoot their subutex, it is important to note what Wiki has to say about crospovidone.
    It is used as a binder in many pharmaceutical tablets[3]; it simply passes through the body when taken orally. However, autopsies have found that crospovidone does contribute to pulmonary vascular injury in substance abusers who have injected pharmaceutical tablets intended for oral consumption.[4

    This should be a point of concern for those that shoot subutex, and have switched to the generics. Crospovidone IS WATER SOLUBLE (which means that no amount of filtering will filter it out of your shot), and Crospovidone is an ingredient in the generics, but not the name brand formulation of subutex.

    So with this in mind, if you shoot your subutex, I would strongly urge you to consider spending the extra money and sticking with the name brands, as they do not contain the crospovidone. I know that I will be sticking with the name brands. While they are more expensive, it would be pretty foolish to switch to a med which you KNOW contains a water soluble substance which has been shown to contribute to pulmonary injury. Just some food for though-DG
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    #24
    ^Thanks for that info, DG. I know that povidone K30 is pretty similar to crospovidone... Do you know if there is similar information available on the use of povidone K30 IV, related to vascular injury? (it is also water-soluble, so I would assume that it would also cause the issue due to the extreme similarity of the two chemicals...)
    Last edited by Pegasus; 29-03-2010 at 19:49.
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BollWeevil View Post
    ^Thanks for that info, DG. I know that povidone K30 is pretty similar to crospovidone... Do you know if there is similar information available on the use of povidone K30 IV, related to vascular injury? (it is also water-soluble, so I would assume that it would also cause the issue due to the extreme similarity of the two chemicals...)
    Hey BollWeevil,
    I wondered the same thing about whether povidone k30 would share the same vascular issues as crospovidone since they are clearly closely related.

    Oddly enough though it seems that povidone k30 is actually used as a dissolving agent for injectables-meaning that it is actually added to solutions which are intended to be injected. I would assume that if there were known vascular issues with this product, it would not be added to injectable solutions.

    So this would seem to indicate that there is something about crospovidone which makes it liable to cause vascular injury, and that povidone k30 apparently lacks this property. Perhaps some of the folks over in ADD could explain why crospovidone would have these negative properties while the related povidone k30 does not. As Im sure you know, even minor chemical changes can often lead to drastic differences in terms of toxicity.


    I suppose that it is also possible that their really isn't much evidence supporting the fact that crospovidone causes this type of injury. While Wiki does make mention of it, they don't elaborate on what kind of study resulted in this finding.

    Anyway, thats all I can gather right now. However, until I hear otherwise, I have to maintain that it would be pretty dumb to inject the generic subutex in light of the pulmonary/vascular issues which have been mentioned. -DG
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