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Thread: The Safe Injection of Non-Water Soluble Benzo Pills

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    The Safe Injection of Non-Water Soluble Benzo Pills 
    #1
    hi all
    There has been a recent increase in threads and posts regarding the injection of non-water soluble benzos. I believe the reason for this increase is that a good number of members here seem to have gotten their hands on phenazepam powder and propylene glycol (a suitable solvent for phenazpem and most benzos).
    Anyhow, I believe because I have taken part in several of these threads and discussions, I have been receiving a good number of PM's asking me about the best/safest procedure to create an injectable benzo solution using propylene glycol.

    Because of this, I think it would be good to have a thread dedicated to the discussion of the safest procedure to make an injectable benzo solution.

    I am well aware that the general consensus is that it is stupid and pointless to shoot benzos, and I can't say I disagree. However it has become clear that recently this practice has become much more popular and prevalent, and in the name of harm reduction I think that rather then ignore it, it would be good to have a thread which seeks to inform users on the safest way to go about this practice.
    Obviously if the mods disagree then please take whatever actions you deem appropriate.


    I will now outline the technique which I assume would be the safest way to go about producing an injectable benzo solution when dealing with a non-water soluble benzo (which is almost all of them). I would appreciate if people would add, criticize and modify any parts of this method that they feel would lead to improvement.

    -Propylene glycol is a suitable solvent for most benzos, including phenazepam powder as well as for benzo pills such as alprazolam and diazepam.
    -In a needleless syringe with a leur lock tip, draw up the desired amount of propylene glycol. Now draw up a quantity of bacteriostatic water to "thin" out the propylene glycol. I think a ratio of 9 parts water to 1 part propylene glycol should be good. You may now "backload" the benzo powder or pill that you will be using, into the needleless syringe.
    -Attach a micron wheel filter to the needleless syringe and shake the syringe vigorously until the benzo has dissolved. Note that if you are using pills, it is likely that some of the fillers/binders will not dissolve into the propylene glycol and will remain as visual particles.
    -You should now put the other end of the wheel filter into either the back of syringe you will be using to shoot, or into a vial if you are planning on storing the solution.
    -Press down on the plunger so that the solution passes through the micron filter and goes into either the back end of the needle you will be using (if you are only prepping a single dose), or into a sterile vial so that you can store multiple doses for later use.


    So that is the basic method I believe will yield the "safest" end product. As I said, I greatly encourage people to discuss this and add/correct anything to this method in order to improve it.

    Again, I understand that many people think its stupid and pointless to shoot benzos, however the fact is that this practice is becoming more popular and I think its a good idea to have a thread like this so that people have the knowledge to be as safe as possible if they choose to go this route. Thanks-DG
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    Great Post! 
    #2
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Nice thread DG!

    For the record, I haven't shot any benzos other than the water soluble ones (flurazepam, midazolam, and loprazolam) so I have very little subjective evidence of how to IV non-water soluble benzos, but I want to add what I know to help out people who are going to attempt this.

    Please note...

    * If you are using pills and not pure benzo powder (i.e. phenazepam, and I've heard of BL'ers getting pure alprazolam/diazepam powder too), you want to cotton filter before micron filtering.

    * If you are using diazepam, then let it be known diazepam will permeate into plastic. I will quote wiki as a source on this, though wiki may not know everything about drugs, this is true.

    Diazepam can absorb into plastic, and, therefore, diazepam solution is not stored in plastic bottles or syringes, etc. It can absorb into plastic bags and tubing used for intravenous infusions. Absorption appears to be dependent on several factors such as temperature, concentration, flow rates, and tube length. Diazepam should not be administered if a precipitate has formed and will not dissolve. [cite]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam[/cite]-second paragraph under "Physical Properties".
    * You have to dilute the propylene glycol - 100% propylene glycol is too viscous for your veins. I'm not sure what would happen if you were to successfully inject 100% propylene glycol into your veins, but I'm sure something not so positive would happen. I'm not exactly sure, I don't remember anything from the Case Studies thread about it. But then again everything that went wrong in IDU's lives isn't in the Case Studies thread.

    * When figuring out how to dilute the benzodiazepine, you need to take two things into account if you are only using propylene glycol and water. For example, a diazepam ampule also has ethanol (or another type of alcohol) as an additional solvent, but I am sure propylene glycol and bacteriostatic water would be enough to successfully create a usable vial if you diluted it properly.

    The two things you need to take into account is how much benzodiazepine can dissolve into propylene glycol. I have no way of finding this out. I can only somewhat easily find information about water solubility for benzodiazepines. Other than flurazepam, midazolam, and loprazolam, on average, benzo solubility is poor. However, you also have to take into effect how soluble in water the benzodiazepine is.

    Below is an example. Please do not take the figures I list below as being factual in any way unless I cite it with a (source). You can view the source for yourself. It's good not to take people's word on things and to figure things out for yourself, but this is to help you all do that if you're not used to it.

    [EXAMPLE]
    mg=milligram | mcg=microgram | g=gram
    1 ml=1cc | 1ml=100 units | 1cc=100 units
    Let's say I have 1000mg (one gram, or 1,000,000 mcg) of alprazolam powder. I'm going to assume it's pure, since it doesn't appear to be crushed up Xanax tablets/bars.

    Let's assume 1mg of alprazolam is soluble in 0.1ml (10 units).
    Benzodiazepine Solubility in Water - in this thread, it is listed that...
    Alprazolam (Xanax) - 0.04 mg/mL [cite]http://drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00404[/cite]

    So, per mL of of propylene glycol we are assuming we can fit 10mg, and per mL of bacteriostatic water (also assuming benzodiazepines will not dissolve into the 0.9% of benzyl alcohol) we know we can fit 0.04mg.

    Let's use DG's recommendation to use 9 parts water to 1 part propylene glycol.

    To dissolve the full 1000mg (assuming it's exactly 1000mg), the easiest way would be to use 962ml of bacteriostatic water (or sterile water/saline) to dilute 96.2 ml of propylene glycol. At this proportionment, the propylene glycol will dissolve 962mg and the water will dissolve 38.48mg.

    This way, we will have 1000mg in 1058.2 ml. This roughly equates to 1.0582mg/ml. You can fit 1mg into a 1cc syringe by using 95 units of the solution. You can fit 0.5mg in a half CC syringe by using 47 units of the solution.
    [/EXAMPLE]
    Last edited by Captain.Heroin; 25-03-2010 at 00:52.
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    #3
    Bluelighter
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    im tagging this so i can come back later and read it. i dont have time to read it now.
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    #4
    Bluelighter skoat's Avatar
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    Useful thread, man. Some of those "how do i shootz a barz" threads should get directed here or something.
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    #5
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skoat View Post
    Useful thread, man. Some of those "how do i shootz a barz" threads should get directed here or something.
    No, people can use this thread, or they can ask specific questions beyond "how to shoot xanax bars". The idea is if you don't have pure benzo powder, things like pills have inactive ingredients, which may or may not soak up a great deal of water.

    Most of the threads you describe have been closed, or have been moved out of OD.

    I know your suggestion had the intent of being helpful though, so I'm not trying to get on your case. In the future we can direct people's inquiries on how to prepare alprazolam, phenazepam, diazepam etc. for injection, yes. But I don't think we'll be moving old threads in here.

    Merging works by sorting the posts by time. Posts previous to DG's original post would move it down (I think). Maybe the first post is exempt to this rule? I think not though.

    Also I'd like to keep this thread on the informative side. People are allowed to questions but when people ask simple, hard to pin down an answer to questions, and normally provide us with little detail while doing so, it's just easier to redirect them to the thread intended for OD level discussion (read: intermediate).
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    #6
    Captain
    Thanks as always for contributing.
    Im curious why you feel it is important to pre-filter benzo pills with cotton before you put them through the micron filter.
    I know that when you prep your suboxone solution, you don't pre-filter them with cotton, so Im just wondering why you suggest it for benzo pills in particular.

    Also, I had no idea that diazepam can be absorbed into plastics. I wonder, however, if this property would make them unsuitable for micron filtering as you suggest. I would GUESS that the process of being absorbed into plastics is a rather slow one. Meaning- I would be surprised if a solution of diazepam would be absorbed into the plastic of a micron filter in the very brief period of time that it takes to pass the solution through the filter. However, that is only a guess based on not very much.
    If anyone has more detailed information on diazepam's apparent tendency to be absorbed into plastics, it would be great to hear from you.


    Also, I would like for people to comment on the method I've outlined, and speculate as to how "safe" of a practice that shooting the resulting solution would be. My hope was that by following the method I outlined, the resulting solution would be as safe as a water soluble pill (such as suboxone) which has been properly micron filtered. What do you guys think? Is there something unique to benzo pills which inherently make them "less safe" to shoot when dissolved in propylene glycol and micron filtered, or should this solution be on par with water soluble pills which have been micron filtered?

    Thanks-DG
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    #7
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    Thank you very much for this thread, it is the info that I need
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    #8
    BL Ambassador Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddysgone View Post
    Captain
    Thanks as always for contributing.
    Im curious why you feel it is important to pre-filter benzo pills with cotton before you put them through the micron filter.
    I know that when you prep your suboxone solution, you don't pre-filter them with cotton, so Im just wondering why you suggest it for benzo pills in particular.
    Well here's why I advise it. I have a really low opiate tolerance and I am very sensitive to opiates. I only use 100 micrograms of buprenorphine at a time. This means I get about 2 weeks of effects out of a single 8mg pill.

    So, two pills micron filtered will last me about a month. That's really easy to pass through a micron filter.

    On the other hand, if you are a benzo user, and want to pass 10, 20, or 30 (or more) benzo pills through a micron filter, there is likely to be a lot more pill sediment.

    The size of the pill isn't as important as the inactive ingredients within the pill.

    Suboxone is very water soluble, and doesn't have too much pill sediment when you're only putting one to three pills through the filter.

    I have tinier pills and putting 8 of them through a single micron filter, without cotton filtering first, is extremely difficult. Though the size of these 8 pills is smaller than 3 Suboxone pills, they clog the filter much easier, if not pre-filtered.

    Also, I had no idea that diazepam can be absorbed into plastics. I wonder, however, if this property would make them unsuitable for micron filtering as you suggest. I would GUESS that the process of being absorbed into plastics is a rather slow one. Meaning- I would be surprised if a solution of diazepam would be absorbed into the plastic of a micron filter in the very brief period of time that it takes to pass the solution through the filter. However, that is only a guess based on not very much.
    If anyone has more detailed information on diazepam's apparent tendency to be absorbed into plastics, it would be great to hear from you.
    AFAIK, it's a slow process. If you have a patient in a hospital on an IV bag of fluids, and you put like a 5mg or 10mg shot into the bag, and it's slowly being dripped into their IV line, then this poses a problem. There's the plastic line, the plastic bag, and the plastic syringe they used to put the solution into the bag. Then it takes forever to get into your system. Some of it will permeate into the plastic.

    However if you use a glass syringe, or micron filter in a quick enough fashion, and have the end product in a glass vial, I am sure you would lose very little product.

    This is an assumption but it only takes me a matter of minutes to micron filter.

    Also, I would like for people to comment on the method I've outlined, and speculate as to how "safe" of a practice that shooting the resulting solution would be. My hope was that by following the method I outlined, the resulting solution would be as safe as a water soluble pill (such as suboxone) which has been properly micron filtered. What do you guys think? Is there something unique to benzo pills which inherently make them "less safe" to shoot when dissolved in propylene glycol and micron filtered, or should this solution be on par with water soluble pills which have been micron filtered?

    Thanks-DG
    It's safe enough that I'd definitely do it myself if I had some quality benzo powders, but unfortunately I don't. I also have no propylene glycol so even if I wanted to run a test on some pills I would have no solvent suitable enough for IV.

    I think you are on to something and are probably very close in the directions if not dead on. However I don't want to give it a thumbs up on safety until we know for sure it is 100% safe. Maybe not fool-proof, but fool-resistant.

    AFAIK, there is nothing in benzo pills that's "unsafe" to shoot if micron filtered. There is talc, etc. in stuff like Valium but that's why you would micron filter - to get it out.

    Oh, except some inactive ingredients in some benzos will absorb some of the water. What comes to mind: flurazepam in capsule form. One of flurazepam in capsule form's inactive ingredients soaks up a lot of water. Not too much, you can still get a decent shot out of it. It's just not really worth it to IV flurazepam, I would advise people to just take it orally.

    I don't know if other benzo pills/capsules are going to have the same issues as flurazepam though.
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    #9
    Bluelighter oliphill's Avatar
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    Found this in an article that was really hard to get, may be of some use to you guys:



    I have some Lormetazepam, please help me work out how many mg/ml I would need to make a solution.

    Also this will be useful for some:



    Oli

    EDIT: Full PDF: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L4ORNDK6
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    #10
    Bluelighter star1980craft's Avatar
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    what i would like to know is if i can take a blue valium pill then prepare it for an iv shot the same way as heroin is done , you know maybe crush the blue up a tad add a lil citric boil it up and wheee ?
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by star1980craft View Post
    what i would like to know is if i can take a blue valium pill then prepare it for an iv shot the same way as heroin is done , you know maybe crush the blue up a tad add a lil citric boil it up and wheee ?
    You have clearly missed the entire point of this thread.
    Valium (and nearly all benzos) are NOT water soluble....so no you can't prepare a shot of valium in the same way you prepare a shot of dope.

    Please do a bit of reading because you are going to hurt yourself if you begin experimenting with shooting things when you are unaware of something as basic as solubility.

    Sorry to come off harsh but this is serious business and you need to realize that you MUST educate yourself on this sort of stuff in order to avoid losing your life or limbs (literally)-DG
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    #12
    Bluelighter Beerman's Avatar
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    I realise how old is the threat but I know that some benzos like Clonazepam, their water solubility can be changed a bit by lowering the pH.

    Actually I tried almost one year ago shoting 1mg of Clonazepam in 3ml of water or so with some acetic acid (pH was 2-3, I know it is TOO low to introduce into the bloodstream but if you do it slowly and introducing enough blood in the syringe before pushing the plunger I think it's not so bad.... anyway it hurted a little bit), and also I know the title of the thread is SAFE INJECTION, and I don't think that IVing acetic acid is safe at all, but maybe if you try with citric acid would be much safer...

    Just wanted to point that about the pH and solubility about some benzos, which I think I've found somwhere here in BL.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Beerman; 22-09-2011 at 22:57. Reason: grammar
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    #13
    Bluelighter scottd420's Avatar
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    Hey Cap'n, I'm always a fan of your work and we've chatted back and forth on here a bit. You're definitely one of my favorite posters and it's the depth of your material that I appreciate--you can definitely tell you have a post-secondary education, which is great.
    However, I was thinking for our younger or not so science experienced readers visiting the page, and I noticed that when we don't show all of the steps in between it can get rather confusing. Just the concept of finding the independant variable and using your other solid information to do the proportion and solve for the unknown (amount of water to dissolve the powder while respecting the solubility and how much will dissolve in the PEG.) Haha, not all of us can solve these university sophomore questions remember . But, I think if you put those steps in, you may get a lot more feedback; the answer just seems more appearant. It's always great to get all of our posters involved, we're all pretty smart folks in here. Anywho, I'm not trying to sound negative at all, just thinking this may get you a little more feedback.
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