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Thread: How does Ativan compare to Xanax, Valium, and Klonopin?

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    #51
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydroazuanacaine View Post
    it's better than xanax and kpin but tied with valium--scientific fact.




    no, the study above suggests it.
    Yes, it suggests that lorazepam is as effective as alprazolam for panic disorder based on the study they conducted. That is proof.

    Other studies have been conducted, many in fact, that have shown lorazepam to be a superior a anticonvulsant to clonazepam, equally effective, if not better then some, as an anxiolytic. It's amazingly powerful for therapeutic purposes.

    Yeah, it's not all that great recreationally, but we aren't talking about that here.
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    #52
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    ^what this guy and hydroazuanacaine said.

    I've used all three of those benzos listed for anti-anxiety purposes and lorazepam is the best, at least for me. Benzos affect everybody very differently.

    BDD Guidelines! - BLUA - BL Search! - Conversions for Opiates & Benzos - Save Your Liver Do a CWE
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    #53
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    It's an amazingly powerful benzo, like I said. It possesses powerful anticonvulsant, muscle relaxant, and anxiolytic effects. It's amnesic effects are so powerful, they are on par with midazolam and triazolam. It's got great sedative effects, that's why it is the preferred agent for IV to patients in psychosis. It's a 3-hydroxy benzo - they all are powerful benzos. Oxazepam seems to be an exception.
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    #54
    Bluelighter verso's Avatar
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    Before I had my xanax-provoked seizure, I would have said that I preferred xanax to klonopin and klonopin to ativan...

    I still believe that xanax may be the most recreational benzo of the three, but now it sort of scares the hell out of me. It was my fault, of course, for abusing my prescription and I know that I could have avoided the whole thing if I had been smarter, but it still scares me.

    Now, I would prefer klonopin over ativan and ativan over xanax. Ativan isn't all that bad, but it is very subtle. I am pretty sure that it has some intranasal bioavailability as well for all the snorting fetishists, so that's kind of neat lol. Xanax and klonopin, of course, have virtually no intranasal bioavailability.
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    #55
    Bluelighter Charles Ferdinand's Avatar
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    Uhh I love this benzo threads...
    Weeeell, Kpin is amazing for generalized anxiety, that is, if you have GAD or PTSD. Anxiety all day long.
    Valium is mostly better if you have insomnia or want to counter the effects of stimulants or for a hard comedown, and mostly used for epilepsy.
    Xanax is best for panic attacks or social phobia: anxiety you have but only in certain specific moments.
    Lorazepam has the same indications as xanax, and works better for social phobia and even better for panick attacks, as it has a relatively short half-life.
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    #56
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verso View Post
    Before I had my xanax-provoked seizure, I would have said that I preferred xanax to klonopin and klonopin to ativan...

    I still believe that xanax may be the most recreational benzo of the three, but now it sort of scares the hell out of me. It was my fault, of course, for abusing my prescription and I know that I could have avoided the whole thing if I had been smarter, but it still scares me.

    Now, I would prefer klonopin over ativan and ativan over xanax. Ativan isn't all that bad, but it is very subtle. I am pretty sure that it has some intranasal bioavailability as well for all the snorting fetishists, so that's kind of neat lol. Xanax and klonopin, of course, have virtually no intranasal bioavailability.
    It's not "subtle". Lorazepam has poor lipid solubility and high degree of protein binding (85-90% ) mean that lorazepam's volume of distribution is mainly the vascular compartment, causing relatively prolonged peak effects. So even though it is a short-intermediate benzo, it has a prolonged effect and for some (most actually) people, it takes over an hour for it to kick in and it peaks at about 3-4 hours, for some who metabolize drugs slowly, it would peak about 5-6 hours after ingestion.
    Last edited by kokaino; 12-04-2011 at 23:36.
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    #57
    Bluelighter K'd-OUT-in-AZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    Lorazepam is as effective as alprazolam for panic disorder. The study above proves it.

    People severely underestimate lorazepam because it sucks recreational, you know what? I hate it recreational aswell, but fact is fact. Lorazepam is a powerhouse of a benzo therapeutically. Diazepam and clonazepam are not superior to it as an anticonvulsant, I don't have the time right now, but I will prove it. Just like how you thought alprazolam was a superior benzo to lorazepam for panic disorder and you were wrong, you are wrong about a lot of the other "numbers" which you just put together based on your opinion.

    You just came up with those numbers on your own - pulled them out of thin air and put them on a forum board.
    What the fuck are you on? Just because some book says different, it doesn't matter because you know what? THOSE ARE MY OPINIONS dufus. I didn't pull those out of hat, I've taken benzos probably longer than you have. I've been on all benzos available in the US, have tons of experience and those are my opinions. I don't give a shit what some dumb links you've read say. Don't be such a dick thinking you know everything Experience is a better indicator then studies.

    Lorazepam blows for panic disorder, I suffer it and it would not do shit for me.
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    #58
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'd-OUT-in-AZ View Post
    What the fuck are you on? Just because some book says different, it doesn't matter because you know what? THOSE ARE MY OPINIONS dufus. I didn't pull those out of hat, I've taken benzos probably longer than you have. I've been on all benzos available in the US, have tons of experience and those are my opinions. I don't give a shit what some dumb links you've read say. Don't be such a dick thinking you know everything Experience is a better indicator then studies.

    Lorazepam blows for panic disorder, I suffer it and it would not do shit for me.
    Well, clinical and scientific studies prove you wrong. Lorazepam is a superior anticonvulsant than both clonazepam and diazepam, as effective for panic disorder as alprazolam, equal to, if not greater than, clonazepam and diazepam anxiolytic as anxiolytic. Superior muscle relaxant than clonazepam and alprazolam, but about equal to or lesser than diazepam.

    You did pull those numbers of of thin air, based on your experiences - yes, that's still thin air and not scientific.

    BTW, that's no way to talk to a moderator.
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    #59
    Bluelighter K'd-OUT-in-AZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    Well, clinical and scientific studies prove you wrong. Lorazepam is a superior anticonvulsant than both clonazepam and diazepam, as effective for panic disorder as alprazolam, equal to, if not greater than, clonazepam and diazepam anxiolytic as anxiolytic. Superior muscle relaxant than clonazepam and alprazolam, but about equal to or lesser than diazepam.

    You did pull those numbers of of thin air, based on your experiences - yes, that's still thin air and not scientific.

    BTW, that's no way to talk to a moderator.
    I don't care, when you act like you think you know everything I will defend myself. Based on experience, is not out of thin air lol, out of thin air is when you just make up something. And didn't I just say I don't care what studies show? And anyway, I dare you to provide links saying that lorazepam is a "better" anticonvulsant than clonazepam and diazepam and that its "better" for panic disorder than alprazolam. I don't think you will come up with anything providing that, I bet the studies just say its good for panic disorder and an effective anticonvulsant, I'm sure that's true but I doubt anything will say its "better". I am positive you have nothing stating that.
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    #60
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'd-OUT-in-AZ View Post
    I don't care, when you act like you think you know everything I will defend myself. Based on experience, is not out of thin air lol, out of thin air is when you just make up something. And didn't I just say I don't care what studies show? And anyway, I dare you to provide links saying that lorazepam is a "better" anticonvulsant than clonazepam and diazepam and that its "better" for panic disorder than alprazolam. I don't think you will come up with anything providing that, I bet the studies just say its good for panic disorder and an effective anticonvulsant, I'm sure that's true but I doubt anything will say its "better". I am positive you have nothing stating that.
    I don't need to prove anything to you, especially after the way you verbally lashed out at a moderator. I know the facts, I have the facts and after you learn how to talk to a moderator, I will share them with you so you know will know the facts aswell.

    For now, I am only going to have my superior deal with you.
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    #61
    Bluelighter K'd-OUT-in-AZ's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, your a mod your right. I will delete last post
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    #62
    Bluelighter Silenced's Avatar
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    K'd... perhaps you should spend some more time educating yourself. This is in no way a direct insult, but with the way you type (spelling, punctuation, etc.) and the way you act... it's certainly not giving you any credibility. Do you think your personal experience is somehow superior to scientific/clinical studies? Can you tell us your qualifications and why we should take your word as the absolute truth?

    Quote Originally Posted by K'd-OUT-in-AZ View Post
    Hallucinations, talking to people who aren't there? I was given an IV of 2mg Ativan at rehab and just felt calm, like I wasn't worrying about things & subtly sedated. But mostly relaxed. I was chained up because I was given it to prevent seizures. I was taking 60mg of Penobarbital and 20mg of Diazepam every 4 hours at the time so that may have had something to do with it.
    I'm sorry, what is your question?
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    #63
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
    K'd... perhaps you should spend some more time educating yourself. This is in no way a direct insult, but with the way you type (spelling, punctuation, etc.) and the way you act... it's certainly not giving you any credibility. Do you think your personal experience is somehow superior to scientific/clinical studies? Can you tell us your qualifications and why we should take your word as the absolute truth?


    I'm sorry, what is your question?
    Well, despite the fact that a study suggests lorazepam is as effective as alprazolam, he still believes lorazepam is "total shit for panic disorder" from personal experience.
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    #64
    Bluelighter K'd-OUT-in-AZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    Well, despite the fact that a study suggests lorazepam is as effective as alprazolam, he still believes lorazepam is "total shit for panic disorder" from personal experience.
    Yes, IMO, hence in my opinion, I still insist that Lorazepam is a subtle benzodiazepine. It is not effective for most of "my" symptoms. I'm not trying to say that just because it doesn't work for me that it won't work for everybody else. I'm just stating how I feel about it. It may be incredibly effective for panic disorder/anxiety for the majority of people

    Sorry for my earlier posts, I haven't been myself lately. But I didn't pull those numbers out of thin air, I suffer panic disorder so I know which benzodiazepines are effective/ineffective for it. Like I mentioned earlier, "FOR ME" not everyone else.

    Apologizes again.
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    #65
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K'd-OUT-in-AZ View Post
    Yes, IMO, hence in my opinion, I still insist that Lorazepam is a subtle benzodiazepine. It is not effective for most of "my" symptoms. I'm not trying to say that just because it doesn't work for me that it won't work for everybody else. I'm just stating how I feel about it. It may be incredibly effective for panic disorder/anxiety for the majority of people

    Sorry for my earlier posts, I haven't been myself lately. But I didn't pull those numbers out of thin air, I suffer panic disorder so I know which benzodiazepines are effective/ineffective for it. Like I mentioned earlier, "FOR ME" not everyone else.

    Apologizes again.
    I suffer PTSD, GAD, ADHD, and borderline personality. So I know a thing or two about panic attacks myself.

    I get 20 mg Lexapro once daily, alprazolam 1 mg 3x/day, Dexedrine (I get 150 of the 5 mg tabs monthly) 10 mg in morning, 10 mg afternoon, 5 mg evening, and I get 100 mg Seroquel at bedtime. Plus a couple more non-psychiatric meds.

    Alprazolam works great for my anxiety and panic attacks, diazepam did aswell and lorazepam was even better than diazepam, while clonazepam sucked. That was my experience with them as far as panic attacks go.
    Last edited by kokaino; 13-04-2011 at 04:00.
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    #66
    Bluelighter K'd-OUT-in-AZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    I suffer PTSD, GAD, ADHD, and borderline personality. So I know a thing or two about panic attacks myself.

    I get 20 mg Lexapro once daily, alprazolam 1 mg 3x/day, Dexedrine (I get 150 5 mg tabs monthly) 10 mg in morning, 10 mg afternoon, 5 mg evening, and I get 100 mg Seroquel at bedtime. Plus a couple more non-psychiatric meds.

    Alprazolam works great for my anxiety and panic attacks, diazepam did aswell and lorazepam was even better than diazepam, while clonazepam sucked. That was my experience with them as far as panic attacks go.
    That's cool, I'm glad you found something that works. At one point I had it (almost) solved but my doctor won't put me back on benzodiazepines since I quit them. I have to look on the streets.
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    #67
    IDK if anyone has brought this up, but long-term use of benzodiazapines is associated with agoraphobia. Treatment? Benzodiazapines....

    Anyway, another thing, klonopin on a regular basis is a great additive for bipolar since it has mood-stabilizing benefits.

    I've taken either klonopin or ativan for over 10 years and my panic disorder is gone, which is really great, but I do have a bit of the aforementioned agoraphobia going on.
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    #68
    Bluelighter verso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    It's not "subtle". Lorazepam has poor lipid solubility and high degree of protein binding (85-90% ) mean that lorazepam's volume of distribution is mainly the vascular compartment, causing relatively prolonged peak effects. So even though it is a short-intermediate benzo, it has a prolonged effect and for some (most actually) people, it takes over an hour for it to kick in and it peaks at about 3-4 hours, for some who metabolize drugs slowly, it would peak about 5-6 hours after ingestion.
    It's not subtle because for most people it takes over an hour to kick in and peaks at about three to four hours later?






    ........ Oh.
    Last edited by verso; 13-04-2011 at 14:18.
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    #69
    well, ativan does not really take an hour to kick in. or even close to.
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    #70
    ^ according to my Nurse's Drug Guide, the PO onset is 1 hour and the peak is 2 hours. If you search around you'll find this to be the general consensus in the medical field.
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    #71
    ok. well i do not know the exact definition of onset in this context, but orally administered ativan does not take an hour to kick in. maybe an hour before it is at its peak? that what a 1 hour onset means? i would disagree with even that, but at least it would not sound quite so removed from reality. it takes people 5-20 minutes before they are feeling swallowed ativan. less if they sublingual.
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    #72
    ^Onset is when the effects become apparent and as I said above, the book I referenced lists the peak at 2 hours.

    Most other sources I've found put the onset at 1 hour but I've seen some that are less. Its fair to note that these are for small therapeutic doses and so larger recreational doses will produce effects quicker.

    I don't think ANY pill can be dissolved, get into the bloodstream and to the brain to produce effects within 5 minutes, even 20 is a stretch.
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    #73
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Lorazepam is a short-intermediate benzo that has a slow onset of effects and a prolonged effect because it doesn't peak until 2-4 hrs (yes, 3 and even 4 hours for some). Like I said earlier, lorazepam has poor lipid solubility and a very high degree of protein binding and that means its volume of distribution is mainly the vascular compartment which causes a prolonged peak effect.
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    #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Cane2theLeft View Post
    I don't think ANY pill can be dissolved, get into the bloodstream and to the brain to produce effects within 5 minutes, even 20 is a stretch.
    really? on an empty stomach, i feel even the slowest pills (e.g. vicodion) start within about 15-20 minutes. benzos are many times faster, and usually soft enough that they dissolve as soon as the liquid you are swallowing with touches them. on an empty stomach, i can feel triazolam in 180 seconds--but that is freakishly on one end of the spectrum. my point just being that there are many examples of pills that are up in the air and flying at the 20 minute mark.


    but what you guys are repeating about ativan and its timeline is ridiculous. unless you are daily/habitual ativan users, i think you two should take a step back and consider. i mean that in a very respectful way, because if you guys were not BL users that i considered level headed about drugs, i would just glaze over this nonsense. a full hour to feel the effects? 2-4 hours to peak? please. you are making my fucking brain twitch.
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    #75
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Yes, when I take temazepam out of the capsules and parachute them. I start to feel the effects in literally 5 minutes, but temazepam is the most rapidly absorbed benzo and has the fastest cerebral uptake among all benzos.
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