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Thread: Using opiates as an antidepression

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    #51
    Bluelighter TheLostBoys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keif' Richards View Post
    Insinuating that oxycodone is a "lighter" opiate and thus has less addictive potential than heroin is retarded. There are several subtle differences, but the only important difference is the price.

    I should clarify that I have been stating opiates for depression in this thread & should have been stating that hydrocodone should be used for depression. From the successful stories I have read & seen, the people have used hydrocodone for depression.

    The only people I know of that do oxy is for pain or to get high.
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    #52
    I feel I have to repeat what I said earlier...

    CODEINE! For depression you don't have to take a 'recreational' dose ie to get high!

    A moderate dose (about 150mg for someone opiate experienced, less if you havent taken opiates before) can take the edge off a bad day, & like I said before, its kids stuff compared to oxy, hydro, morphine, heroin etc.

    Just try not to take it every day...just when you need it. & its a damn sight safer than benzo's too.
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    #53
    Bluelighter TheLostBoys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levvytation View Post
    I feel I have to repeat what I said earlier...

    CODEINE! For depression you don't have to take a 'recreational' dose ie to get high!

    A moderate dose (about 150mg for someone opiate experienced, less if you havent taken opiates before) can take the edge off a bad day, & like I said before, its kids stuff compared to oxy, hydro, morphine, heroin etc.

    Just try not to take it every day...just when you need it. & its a damn sight safer than benzo's too.


    I agree that codeine works great but codeine doesnt agree with everyone that does other opiates & I would never recommend benzos to anyone!
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    #54
    Bluelighter Keif' Richards's Avatar
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    I'll rephrase my last post to fit this current topic here.

    Insinuating that hydrocodone is a "lighter" opiate and thus has less addictive potential than heroin or oxy is retarded. There are several subtle differences, but the only important difference is the price. All opiates are potentially addictive and deserve due respect. Arguing that hydrocodone is some mystical opiate that transcends all of the negative effects of other opiates is just wrong, it is just wrong. The effects profile of hydrocodone and oxycodone are very similar man. And for that matter, the effects profiles of all opiates are very similar. Yet, you say that hydrocodone (and codeine now too I guess?) is THE opiate drug to be used for anti-depression. Which I guess is a sound argument, but that is negated by the fact that using any opiate as a long term antidepressant is just a terrible idea. I think this thread has had it's day in court so to speak, and I think it's been found guilty.

    Codeine I guess makes a little more sense, that, I will regretfully concede to you animals . But saying that essentially forfeits my entire argument doesn't it
    Last edited by Keif' Richards; 18-08-2010 at 00:23.
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    #55
    Bluelighter phatass's Avatar
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    no doc in their right mind xill prescibe opiates as an anti-depression medication... yes it temporarily drives the depression away but you have to be realistic;;; they are powerfll narcotics with a very high abuse potential
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    #56
    Bluelighter Violenza666's Avatar
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    I wouldn't give a "depressed" person a bottle full of opiates (they could easily commit suicide with) to alleviate depression.. Leaving the abuse potential out of it..it's a good way to get sued and getting you license yanked and or wind up in prison.
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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexius View Post
    Serotonin is not the sole contributer to happiness.

    Happiness is created when the neurotransmitters in the brain have reached specific levels of activity; acting synergystically together

    If one NT (IE GABA) is low, you can feel more anxious, poor rest/sleep and unable to wind down.
    I don't believe that I said it was, but you are correct--dopamine, norepinephrine, and GABA all play roles as well. This is why combinations of medication can often work well, as more than one neurochemical can be at incorrect levels.
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    #58
    Bluelighter TheLostBoys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatass View Post
    no doc in their right mind xill prescibe opiates as an anti-depression medication... yes it temporarily drives the depression away but you have to be realistic;;; they are powerfll narcotics with a very high abuse potential


    We know no doctor would ever prescribe opiates of any kind for depression & yes, opiates are powerful & can be very addictive.

    The question to ask all the depressed people is this: would you like to live the next 10 years content with the happy go lucky attitude codeine or hydrocodone brings to your life & hides any depression you have & knowing that you could very well risk you future with serious addiction.

    Or would you rather live in misery the next 20 years trying to figure out why you're depressed knowing the doctors have tried every anti-depressant out there. Most would choose happiness with an opiate "if it worked"

    My point is that anti-depressants dont work for everyones depression & neither do opiates. I dont think we should play judge & jury with someones depression because if they found something that works, so be it.
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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLostBoys View Post
    We know no doctor would ever prescribe opiates of any kind for depression & yes, opiates are powerful & can be very addictive.

    The question to ask all the depressed people is this: would you like to live the next 10 years content with the happy go lucky attitude codeine or hydrocodone brings to your life & hides any depression you have & knowing that you could very well risk you future with serious addiction.

    Or would you rather live in misery the next 20 years trying to figure out why you're depressed knowing the doctors have tried every anti-depressant out there. Most would choose happiness with an opiate "if it worked"

    My point is that anti-depressants dont work for everyones depression & neither do opiates. I dont think we should play judge & jury with someones depression because if they found something that works, so be it.
    That hypothetical choice that you're offering is a lie though, those aren't a persons two options.
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    #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokomo View Post
    That hypothetical choice that you're offering is a lie though, those aren't a persons two options.
    They are not 2 options because we as a society are scared to try & help others. We only help thers as we see fit, or should I say what we are educated on whether its the full truth.

    The people I was reffering too are people that have exercised all avenues & have no where to go but down & yes I know that if you get addicted to opiates its bad but some people would rather take that option of trying them & see what happens.
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    #61
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    I've been on many different kinds of antidepressants and none have worked for me.Opiates do make me cheery but they bit me in the ass years ago.I recently tried low dose amphetamine and they help a bit but I won't take it even every other day,I don't want another bad habit.

    In the first long rambling post,the kid admitted he had gone through withdrawal a few times.I think he is tricking himself.Sure opiates make a person feel wonderful in the beginning but if he has already gone through withdrawal,I think he should think that he might have addiction potential.Addiction is sneaky,people think it won't happen to them until it does.By then it is too late.Then you are not only depressed but also addicted.The happy,jolly feeling does not stay forever without consequences.
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    #62
    Bluelighter Keif' Richards's Avatar
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    The point that everyone is trying to make is that the avenue your mentioning can only lead to misery (except for that guy that you quote incessantly). You're really stuck on this opinion man, I've come to the conclusion that you must be real young (I'm 19 but what the hell) or you have minimal experience with opiate drugs. You may be as lost as the boys in the movie from which you get your namesake. I don't feel that anyone with any type of real experience with opiates could ever say something like this and defend it so hard. Have you ever actually seen someone go down hard from opiates? Have you seen the REAL damage that they can cause?

    That's all irrelevant though isn't it? Many of the people on this site use opiates on a regular basis, that much is obvious. But it's a harm reduction web site, that's its purpose, to reduce harm. The reason I get so heated over your suggestions is because I, like many other people have seen opiates ruin lives, and, even given your obviously limited knowledge on this particular subject, you rep opiate use for people who are depressed like a champion. You outright just suggest it. I feel like you have no idea what you're saying, you couldn't possibly.

    This place is a place for open discussion and advice, much like the Roman forums of old, but you're bordering on being directly harmful to people with this misguided advice. And correct me if I'm wrong man, but you're biggest piece of evidence is hearsay from someone on the internet that you've never met. Seriously, just think about what you're suggesting, seriously analyze the logic behind it. Repeat it to yourself in the mirror and tell me it doesn't just sound stupid.

    Sorry for being so emotional, this is hopefully my last post in this thread. I feel like I'm tripping balls right now with the insane logic being thrown around by these couple people.
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    #63
    Bluelighter TheLostBoys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keif' Richards View Post
    The point that everyone is trying to make is that the avenue your mentioning can only lead to misery (except for that guy that you quote incessantly). You're really stuck on this opinion man, I've come to the conclusion that you must be real young (I'm 19 but what the hell) or you have minimal experience with opiate drugs. You may be as lost as the boys in the movie from which you get your namesake. I don't feel that anyone with any type of real experience with opiates could ever say something like this and defend it so hard. Have you ever actually seen someone go down hard from opiates? Have you seen the REAL damage that they can cause?

    That's all irrelevant though isn't it? Many of the people on this site use opiates on a regular basis, that much is obvious. But it's a harm reduction web site, that's its purpose, to reduce harm. The reason I get so heated over your suggestions is because I, like many other people have seen opiates ruin lives, and, even given your obviously limited knowledge on this particular subject, you rep opiate use for people who are depressed like a champion. You outright just suggest it. I feel like you have no idea what you're saying, you couldn't possibly.

    This place is a place for open discussion and advice, much like the Roman forums of old, but you're bordering on being directly harmful to people with this misguided advice. And correct me if I'm wrong man, but you're biggest piece of evidence is hearsay from someone on the internet that you've never met. Seriously, just think about what you're suggesting, seriously analyze the logic behind it. Repeat it to yourself in the mirror and tell me it doesn't just sound stupid.

    Sorry for being so emotional, this is hopefully my last post in this thread. I feel like I'm tripping balls right now with the insane logic being thrown around by these couple people.

    1) Im in my late 30's

    2) I never said everyone thats depressed go out & do opiates. I said do opiates if thats your last resort, it beats ending your life!

    3) I typed about the guy that had success using Vicodin. You should check the 1st page where I talked about a good friend of mine that uses Vicodin for depression, it works for her!

    4) Im not forcing anyone to use opiates, im only stating what I have seen in person & read about others that have used anti-depressants for years with no avail!

    5) As far as what opiates I have taken, well, I absolutely hate Oxys & Percocets & yes, I know Percs have oxy in them. I have tried Oxys & Percs several times & they make me feel weird & give me headaches after the come down & my back pain seems to be worse afterwards. I do take prescribed Vicodin for back pain. I have been for a while & I never take more than 2 in one day. Actually Codeine works the best for my back pain & I take it once in a while.

    6) We can go on about this forever, because I just dont see how a person being miserable for the rest of their lives on anti-depressants (people get suicidal on them too) should not have a chance at a better life because of your past history or other people past history with opiates. Just because your neighbor goes out drinking & driving & kills someone doesnt mean you shouldnt be allowed to drink, comprende?

    7) Its insane logic only when you disagree with someones opinion. I for one do agree that opiates are dangerous & you have to respect their powers.
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    #64
    Bluelighter 100mgbluepill's Avatar
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    I have personally lived through the complete downfall opiates can bring. I lost EVERYTHING i had, my job my car my home with EVERYTHING in it, stolen and lied from my family and so on. Currently i have been off opiates for about a month and i never intend on self medicating myself again. At this point in time its very hard for me to do just ordinary things and honestly all i want to do is go to work and feel normal. I have 3 jobs lined out right now but due to the fact that i have random panic attacks and i constantly feel like shit because of my stomach problems im having to "wait" and see if my phyciarist can find a suitable drug that will put me on a level playing feel. I know first hand ANY opiate whether its oxicontin or fucken tramodal would help my situation greatly and give me the backbone i need to get on with my fucking life.

    For those of you posting that no doctor would prescribe opiates for anti depression, do some searching. Doctors have already done clinical studies and proven he potential for opiates being used as an antidepression and there are already people here in the U.S. with prescriptions for oxycodone and oxymorphone used solely for antidepression.

    For the record, im 20...
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    #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100mgbluepill View Post
    I have personally lived through the complete downfall opiates can bring. I lost EVERYTHING i had, my job my car my home with EVERYTHING in it, stolen and lied from my family and so on. Currently i have been off opiates for about a month and i never intend on self medicating myself again. At this point in time its very hard for me to do just ordinary things and honestly all i want to do is go to work and feel normal. I have 3 jobs lined out right now but due to the fact that i have random panic attacks and i constantly feel like shit because of my stomach problems im having to "wait" and see if my phyciarist can find a suitable drug that will put me on a level playing feel. I know first hand ANY opiate whether its oxicontin or fucken tramodal would help my situation greatly and give me the backbone i need to get on with my fucking life.

    For those of you posting that no doctor would prescribe opiates for anti depression, do some searching. Doctors have already done clinical studies and proven he potential for opiates being used as an antidepression and there are already people here in the U.S. with prescriptions for oxycodone and oxymorphone used solely for antidepression.

    For the record, im 20...
    I hope you get the help you need to move on with your life man, good luck!
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    #66
    Bluelighter 100mgbluepill's Avatar
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    Glad i had someone who is seeing through this the same way i am. I appreciate you taking the time to put effort into this thread.
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLostBoys View Post
    They are not 2 options because we as a society are scared to try & help others. We only help thers as we see fit, or should I say what we are educated on whether its the full truth.

    The people I was reffering too are people that have exercised all avenues & have no where to go but down & yes I know that if you get addicted to opiates its bad but some people would rather take that option of trying them & see what happens.
    Almost no one has tried "everything." It takes finding the right doc, the right medication or combination of medications, the right dosage, etc. Sometimes this is easier, sometimes its harder. But it does take time, patience and a competent doctor.

    Its easy to feel like you've tried EVERYTHING when you're in that situation, but its often not the case. There may even be treatment options you're not aware of.
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    #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100mgbluepill View Post
    Glad i had someone who is seeing through this the same way i am. I appreciate you taking the time to put effort into this thread.

    No problem man, glad to help!
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    #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokomo View Post
    Almost no one has tried "everything." It takes finding the right doc, the right medication or combination of medications, the right dosage, etc. Sometimes this is easier, sometimes its harder. But it does take time, patience and a competent doctor.

    Its easy to feel like you've tried EVERYTHING when you're in that situation, but its often not the case. There may even be treatment options you're not aware of.

    I am not in depression but if I was, that last thing I would want is to be a guinea pig for years & years. No thanks! My cousins wifes aunt was on anti-depressants for 10 years trying all kinds & her husband says she has become wacky because of them (shes only 1 example that I care to type about).
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    #70
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLostBoys View Post
    I am not in depression but if I was, that last thing I would want is to be a guinea pig for years & years. No thanks! My cousins wifes aunt was on anti-depressants for 10 years trying all kinds & her husband says she has become wacky because of them (shes only 1 example that I care to type about).
    The last thing you'd want to do would be seek out ACTUAL treatment that is effective for you? I'm sorry for your cousins wifes experiences, but its just irresponsible to try and sell opioid addiction as a viable option based on these kinds of anecdotal experiences. I'd rather talk about hard facts, or even case studies where all of the factors are in play. Saying her husband said they made her "wacky" really isn't a good basis to recommend opioid addiction to someone. And in terms of making someone "wacky", I've seen opioid withdrawal/addiction do a lot worse.
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    #71
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    There are many doctors,trying many different types of medication to help people.Of course some doctors will try opiates to help a severely depressed person.They may work for some people.The point (to me) pillman is that YOU have had an admitted opiate problem.I think you are just looking for an excuse to start your problem up again.Then again ,I am an old woman in her fifties that has had an addiction problem for decades.Maybe things have changed with you young people.It is too bad that humans have to learn everything the hard way.
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    #72
    Bluelighter Keif' Richards's Avatar
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    I don't know what country you're in, but doctors in the US will most certainly not prescribe opiates for people with Major Depressive Disorder, or anything other than pain for that matter. Unless you have Michael Jackson's doctor, in which case, have at it. Most doctors don't want to throw away the several hundred grand investment they made in going to med school to break medical protocol so blatantly. I'm sure there are studies somewhere being done related to this but that's about it.

    You said you're in you're fifties so that probably plays a role in this. My mother always tells me about how drugs were given away with much less care back in her hay-day. She always tells me about how when she was a kid her grandmother (my great grandmother) always carried around a bottle of codeine cough syrup, and just sipped it all day long. Watching tv, driving everyone in the car, and so on. Granted codeine isn't too potent a drug, I still think my story is fairly relevant... and pretty hilarious when I imagine it

    And of course the valium, everyone was on valium lol
    Last edited by Keif' Richards; 18-08-2010 at 05:03.
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    #73
    Bluelighter 100mgbluepill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adicabrady View Post
    There are many doctors,trying many different types of medication to help people.Of course some doctors will try opiates to help a severely depressed person.They may work for some people.The point (to me) pillman is that YOU have had an admitted opiate problem.I think you are just looking for an excuse to start your problem up again.Then again ,I am an old woman in her fifties that has had an addiction problem for decades.Maybe things have changed with you young people.It is too bad that humans have to learn everything the hard way.
    If i wanted to start doing opiates again i wouldnt need an excuse i would just go out and buy them.. I was doing opiates before solely to get high, not to keep me level minded. And if i was prescribed something i wouldnt get nearly enough to get high anyways rather, enough to keep me stable on a daily basis.

    I talked to my counsler today and i will be prescribed suboxane for the time being to see if it levels me off. I have told her my history with anti depressents and apparently everyone in my family has the same reaction to them and they havnt worked at all. My mom was even hostpitalized and almost died due to some of the anti depressents she was taking. I will let you guys know how this helps, they were talking about maybe prescribing tramadol for my stomach problems if the suboxane doesnt help with my depression.
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    #74
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    Here are excerpts of an article by Professor Irving Kirsch, a leading psychologist:



    We spend more than 250 m a year on antidepressants in the UK - and it's a complete waste of money. They are not much better than sugar pills, they have nasty side - effects, such as sexual dysfunction, and they increase young people's risk of suicide.

    New research shows they don't even work on the brain in the way we thought they did.
    For years we were told depression was caused by low levels of a brain chemical called serotonin, and that antidepressants worked by boosting it. But an Australian study published in the Archives of General Psychiatry shows that rather than low levels, depressed people might have double the normal amount in some parts of their brain.

    I've been studying antidepressants for more than a decade, and I knew that if they worked at all, it wasn't by changing brain chemistry. The major reason you feel better when taking an antidepressant - maybe the only reason - is the placebo effect.
    When I first published a paper back in 1998 saying that antidepressant drugs such as Prozac and Seroxat were not much better than a placebo, almost everyone thought it couldn't be true.

    There was so much evidence they worked. Thousands of people claimed the drugs had turned their lives round. My colleagues said that I must have made a mistake: either I had looked at the wrong data, or I hadn't analysed it properly. In fact, what I'd done was to look at the research on antidepressants in a different way from everyone else. Other researchers were concentrating on how much better the drugs were than a placebo. What I was interested in was finding out how strong the placebo effect was in treating depression. I compared the placebo effect to having no treatment at all - no one had done that before.

    We already knew that placebos could have a powerful effect in conditions such as pain, angina, ulcers and asthma.

    Depression was an obvious next step, because when you are depressed you lose hope, and placebos give you hope. But I was flabbergasted by just how big the placebo effect was. Patients getting the drug improved: that was not surprising. But patients given the placebo also got better - and by almost the same amount. Most of the drug improvement was really a placebo effect. I decided the best way to convince people that antidepressants were largely placebos was to look at the drug companies' own data.

    At the time, I was working at the University of Connecticut, so I used the Freedom of Information Act to force the U.S. Food & Drug Administration, which licenses drugs, to let me see all the trials the drug companies had run to get the most popular antidepressants approved. That's when I got another shock. More than half of the trials showed no difference at all between the drugs and the placebos - but most of those negative trials had never been published.

    Heres the link to the rest of the story, its kinda long:

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...#ixzz0wvJk4xdL
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    #75
    To die or to live high that is the question.
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