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Thread: The Big & Dandy Non-LSD Ergoloids Blotter Thread

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    #26
    I know I've had the real deal, liquid cooked up in a special yearly batch by some crazy chemist that had the electric taste & full-on effects profile & duration. But I suspect most of the blotter I've had over the years was one of the analogues. It explains that what seemed almost like two different drugs actually was two closely related but different drugs. This totally makes sense.
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    #27
    Too much conspiracy, this isn't 9/11th there is plenty of acid around just find your source.
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    #28
    I find it interesting, and wish I could get something I KNEW was real, to have something to go on...

    My first time getting any, I had a fit of laughter for 8 hours, for seemingly no reason, I loved it! and that was one hit, and my friend had the same thing, plus he felt the island (maui) and the people on it flowing through him, and this was all from 1 hit each, which I believe may have been real... because since then, I've had like 8 hits dropped on altiods (at various times, usually 2 at a time) and they did nothing, and some others on blotter (got half a sheet) that also did, next to NOTHING... and I say next to nothing, because I dunno if it was placebo or what, but I was thinking... a lot more... but after like 8 hits in an hour, I did finally have a hallucination of some dark purple hazy shadow coming out of my computer screen and swirling but nothing else and only for a short time, and then I got 2 drops of liquid, and 3 blotters, did them all at once, and I hallucinated vividly seeing shadows move back and forth in patterns...

    so its all been different, and using various amounts... dunno if everything I got was the same, or if mistakes were made...

    point is, with something so small and with something you cannot see... without access to a lab, you won't know, you either have to trust someone, or have experienced the real thing, to know if its real... I mean, its not like anyone is going to fess up to putting anything else on blotter... so unless someone does have access to a lab, and your specific hits you want to test, all the speculation is pointless...(or it could even be LSD mixed with other things?) and eventually you will convince yourself and others its not LSD because of either mistakes in the making process or it really being something else sometimes

    or you could convince yourself and others that something else is LSD when its not...
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    #29
    Bluelighter raggedy_acid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamMe90 View Post
    it's kind of making me lol that the OP didn't know the word "conspiracy"
    Its a posted from another forum. I posted it exactly as it was. Why not contribute rather than hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblazingphoenix100 View Post
    dumb question imo.
    There are no dumb questions.


    I have a feeling it depends on the location what non-lysergic chemical is substituted for LSD.

    I think that places that are known for having LSD have LSD and is Lysergic friends floating around.

    But those are just speculations.
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    #30
    Trouble with the theory that "It's all DOx or a mysterious lysergic molecule" is how far down the chain are you going to be able to con your buyers? Say you've made some blotter with DOx and then sell it to a distributor, sooner or later he's going to find out you've sold him DOx instead of LSD and come and break your legs.

    Similarly if the distributor tries to sell it to someone else all it takes is one seller to try it and then say "Fuck off" and you get no money. It's a lose-lose business model.
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    #31
    Well, DOx-on-blotter is definitely a one off scam, people will know pretty much instantaneously and tell the supplier to fuck off; but LS? is sufficiently close to The Real Thing many people wouldn't know, or care. And the funny thing is, that the outmoded "nothing but L fits on blotter" conventional wisdom actually helps the LS?-sellers get away with the deception ... And, to many people, the effects are so similar that the question is largely academic, I'll bet a lot of people couldn't tell the difference in a double-blind taste test ... And, in some ways, the other stuff might be better... More convenient time frame, less anxiety, less mindfuckery, etc. Of course people should in a perfect world get what they pay for, but in this imperfect world LS?, in a commercial context, is a viable alternative, unfortunately. Personally I would take the LS? again knowingly, it's kind of a cool drug, but of course would rather know. I think that it does get sold as "ALD-52" on the street on occasion, ironically enough.
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    #32
    Bluelighter amanitadine's Avatar
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    Interesting thread, and hard to shed too much light as most speculation is just such. Also difficult without roving into synth discussion. BUT.......someone hit the nail on the head with the mention of diethylamines difficulty of acquisition. First response is probably "wha?! If they are getting the ergoloid than surely DE can't be that difficult!"

    *But* Nick Sand has mentioned (both in conversation ((lucky enough to meet him at a few conferences!)) and in a few interviews) that before he was busted for the last time in British Columbia that their biggest difficulty was getting enough diethylamine. He had a good ergotamine source, but that the DE was always hard to come by. Sooooo....I know for a fact that the morpholide has been produced by some. As well as the other aforementioned analogs. Whether this is for novelty or by necessity is only speculation. I personally believe that the vast majority of what is being sold as LSD is LSD, and that the biggest differences perceived are strictly subjective. But that said, there is production and distribution of various analogs going on. To what degree I ( and everyone else) have no idea.....

    Cheers
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    #33
    Bluelighter raggedy_acid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amanitadine View Post
    Interesting thread, and hard to shed too much light as most speculation is just such
    Cheers
    What you posted is no more speculation than any of the other posts. Actually there have been posts regarding LSD paper hits that was tested. The results are posted and it was not LSD. So there is a fact that some LSD (that most people have said is good LSD) is in fact NOT LSD.

    So the speculation stopped when those facts got posted.
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    #34
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    no it didn't, a few contaminated blotter does not change the fact that postulating an LSD conspiracy is flat out speculation
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    #35
    There's at least evidence for the broader claim that some percentage of what's marketed as LSD-25 is actually some other ergoloid but no, the whole idea of a conspiracy per se is still just just as, well conspiracist as at the start of it all.
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    #36
    Bluelighter raggedy_acid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamMe90 View Post
    no it didn't, a few contaminated blotter does not change the fact that postulating an LSD conspiracy is flat out speculation
    conspire- to act or work together toward the same result or goal.

    LSD and its knock-offs are not in circulation by one dude. Its a group or groups of people who are in the 'know'. I would not be surprised if they ordered LSD analogues from overseas.

    Anyways, having proof that there are other chemicals in large circulation proves that there are people working together to sell these chemicals as LSD.

    That is what a conspiracy is. How can you say that it is not?
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    #37
    Bluelighter DwayneHoover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamMe90 View Post
    no it didn't, a few contaminated blotter does not change the fact that postulating an LSD conspiracy is flat out speculation
    I had some of the hoffman anniversary cartoon with omega on reverse and in addition to being really really weak (1 was not felt at all and 2 just barely) it felt clean and pretty nice but was more a head feel and not much of any actually psychedelic effects, at least at that dose. It was an entire sheet of 100, and many many more received these same sheets, so there were at least thousands and thousands distributed.

    That's not "a few".

    So far as "conspiracy" I wish you guys would quit arguing about that, no one said "conspiracy", which conjures up all kinds of images of meetings in smoky backrooms, etc etc, all that seems pointless imaginings.

    I figure the extent of it is: chemists know how to make the non LSD things, there are reasons to be motivated to make them (easier to get precursors, possibly "less illegal", less expensive, faster synth, whatever etc.), they are active at doses that DO fit on blotters and HAVE been proven to be on them.

    What else is there to quibble over?

    Who cares about niggling arguments over the definition of the word "conspiracy"?

    I guess sometimes we just enjoy a good argument:

    Monty Python - Argument Clinic
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y&NR=1

    Pull this up next time you and friends are buzzed... you'll all be ROTFL in no time! Watch it all the way to the end... the last moment before the blackout is a genius ending to a brilliant skit.
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    #38
    "contaminates" is a poor choice of word. It is misrepresented, not contaminated ...

    And "conspiracy" might be a strong word that conjures up images of flights of paranoiac fantasy, but in the literal sense of the word, yes, there is a conspiracy to make this stuff and pass it off az LSD ...

    As to the scale of this operation, nobody really can know outside a few people who are involved, but it is most definitely not small.

    I would agree that most LSD, at least stateside, is genuine though.
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneHoover View Post
    I figure the extent of it is: chemists know how to make the non LSD things, there are reasons to be motivated to make them (easier to get precursors, possibly "less illegal", less expensive, faster synth, whatever etc.), they are active at doses that DO fit on blotters and HAVE been proven to be on them.

    What else is there to quibble over?
    There's the little problem of the business model being utterly unworkable. In all illegal drug selling there's a pyramid structure, the guy makes it, he sells it to a major league distributor, then it gets passed down the food-chain.

    Your theory is turning this on it's head. According to you the guy makes it, sells 10 million dollars of bunk LSD to the Triads and then sits back laughing. My guess is the Triads have access to a guy who knows what's LSD and what isn't. Your theoretical "chemist" would then be hung on a meathook.

    The only way it might work is if it's a mom and pop operation making and distributing it themselves from the back of a garden shed. My guess is the vast majority of people distributing LSD are a little more clued in than you suggest and arn't as easily fooled.

    (easier to get precursors, possibly "less illegal", less expensive, faster synth, whatever etc.)

    Sounds like a good theory but it's like making "cocaine that isn't cocaine" - sure you can do it with "less illegal precursors" and it's "less expensive", the problem is it isn't worth a shit because you'll be unable to sell it in quantities worth the trouble.
    Last edited by Ismene; 19-01-2011 at 08:12.
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    #40
    Well, "bunk" this stuff isn't, exactly. It's a viable product that people will pay for, and do, so the distributors are perfectly happy, I'd imagine.
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    #41
    Are you actually proposing that as soon as a chemist is able to make LSD and does just that, that they are recruited into some underground organization that are conspiring into tricking people that they are taking LSD, when they are infact taking another ergaloid? Or maybe that once a chemist can and does make LSD they are shot and disposed of before they can sell their product?

    Come on this is silly.
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by rickolasnice View Post
    Are you actually proposing that as soon as a chemist is able to make LSD and does just that, that they are recruited into some underground organization that are conspiring into tricking people that they are taking LSD, when they are infact taking another ergaloid? Or maybe that once a chemist can and does make LSD they are shot and disposed of before they can sell their product?

    Come on this is silly.
    Who is proposing that?

    All that is known is that these non-LSD ergoloids circulate, and, presumably, there is an organized effort to produce and distribute them, but the rest of the above is indeed silly. There is plenty of real LSD circulating, but also there is at least one group of people putting this other stuff out. Anything else is paranoid speculation (which psychedelics are wont to produce in some people ...)
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKindaLove View Post
    Well, "bunk" this stuff isn't, exactly. It's a viable product that people will pay for, and do, so the distributors are perfectly happy, I'd imagine.
    Maybe SKL but I still think it's got to be a pretty small part of the LSD market. I could make "cocaine" with a bottle of talcum powder and caffiene tablets but the problem would be getting anyone to pay me 40 grand a key for it. Presumably if someone is paying for LSD then they go to someone who can make LSD.

    But I suppose someone somewhere would pay for something that sort of resembled LSD - as long as it was at an absolute drop down price.
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    #44
    I think you give the consumer too much credit, or the analogue not enough; this stuff is very similar to LSD, to the point that I think most people couldn't tell in a blind taste test. The truth of the matter is: this stuff has been around for years and widely speculated on. Now, we have GC/MS that proves that at least one analogue has circulated fairly widely on paper. How widely is anyone's guess, and I would agree that the majority of LSD in circulation is in fact LSD, but the blotters that weren't were quite widely distributed in certain circles.
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    #45
    Bluelighter RainbowWarrior's Avatar
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    Interesting thread... thanks for telling

    for the record: I'm in europe, i have consumed lsd quite a few times in the past year... mostly liquid (3 different sources in 2 countries), some blotter, hofmann and others (also 2 different countries) and soon will try a microdot... so far i'm 100% confident that basically all of this was real LSD...

    can't say too much about the one time i had a hofmann blotter as i already consumed 27mg 2ci and some shrooms before taking the blotter, but it also felt very much like lsd...

    but all in all it's really a decadent problem to have... as long as i have the electric taste and the organic feel after 15 mins and meet the great eye at the peak i'll be a happy little Rainbowwarrior

    edit: btw In the Netherlands as well as in Spain it's possible to get blotters tested and i have not heard from a single blotter that was reported to be a LS?, i'll write an email at energy control wether they ever found some analogues of lsd on blotter... will also include the GC sheet to see what they have to say about it...
    Last edited by RainbowWarrior; 19-01-2011 at 19:51.
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    #46
    Bluelight Crew Cloudy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeKindaLove View Post
    I think you give the consumer too much credit, or the analogue not enough; this stuff is very similar to LSD, to the point that I think most people couldn't tell in a blind taste test. The truth of the matter is: this stuff has been around for years and widely speculated on. Now, we have GC/MS that proves that at least one analogue has circulated fairly widely on paper. How widely is anyone's guess, and I would agree that the majority of LSD in circulation is in fact LSD, but the blotters that weren't were quite widely distributed in certain circles.
    (not directed at SLK, just adding on) I don't think many people would have a problem with the fact that they received some other ergoline instead of LSD. I doubt I could find anyone I know who's tried LSD and enjoys tripping, who wouldn't mind trying a similar compound, especially with the prospect of less potential for anxiety + intense visuals in relation to intensity of experience.

    I don't see how putting another ergoline with similar subjective effects would be an issue of anyone in the chain of supply. Its not like DOx where the effects are clearly off from LSD or there is a potential to trip for 12+ hour.
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
    I don't see how putting another ergoline with similar subjective effects would be an issue of anyone in the chain of supply.
    I dunno. I think the problem comes higher up the supply chain rather than some kid on the street. If the Triads are paying someone 10 million for LSD and you give them something that isn't LSD I think you're going to have a few problems. All they have to do is get an LSD testing kit and you're fucking dead.

    To be honest you'd think people would be selling alternatives to LSD as straight "alternatives to LSD". No need to try and pass them off as LSD is there? You could probably sell them at a higher price than acid by saying "It's better than LSD dude". I'd buy alternatives to LSD just to check them out.
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    #48
    Bluelighter RainbowWarrior's Avatar
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    LSD and triads?... lol

    watch less movies and spend more time in "reality"
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ismene View Post
    I dunno. I think the problem comes higher up the supply chain rather than some kid on the street. If the Triads are paying someone 10 million for LSD and you give them something that isn't LSD I think you're going to have a few problems. All they have to do is get an LSD testing kit and you're fucking dead.

    To be honest you'd think people would be selling alternatives to LSD as straight "alternatives to LSD". No need to try and pass them off as LSD is there? You could probably sell them at a higher price than acid by saying "It's better than LSD dude". I'd buy alternatives to LSD just to check them out.
    Well, first of all, if by "LSD testing kit," you mean Ehrlich's reagent, any ergoloid will pass.

    Second, triads? LOL. But really, regardless of who the traffickers are, all that they really care about is that the product sells, and this product definitely sells.

    You're right, I wish that people would sell this stuff as what it is (there's even ready made cutesy acronyms that rhyme with the real thing! LSP, and LSB!), but it's probably easier just to pass it off as "acid," a product which sells itself, rather than something that would require an explanation to your customers.

    The situation is a little less dire than the one with "Ecstasy pills," which, bought on the open market, could contain just about anything, but sort of recalls the pressed E pill market of many years ago ... Most of it is what it is purported to be, but a certain percentage of blotters on the market now need to be thought of as "LS?" the way we think of "MDxx" (MDMA/MDA/MDE/MDEA/etc.) as a family of closely related but not exactly interchangeable drugs ... or, occasionally, something totally unrelates (DOx, 5-MeO-AMT, etc.)
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    #50
    Bluelighter Tunnelfission's Avatar
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    i've had uninformed dealers tell me that my chosen standard of blotters have been something that is not LSD all along, he claimed "LSA" which scientifically just does not pan out, but i'm not sure why he would suppose that...

    from the consumers point of view there is no real way to tell what is in our drugs, which is sad i've found that the suppliers are usually incorrect as well or lying and the only speculation is usually scientifically flawed.

    We just DON'T know... when people on the streets think that anything that makes one hallucinate is called "ACID" I act to inform them but usually their pseudoscience magical thinking is to stubborn to budge.
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