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    Hydrocodone for coming down off amphetamine? 
    #1
    How effective is hydrocodone for alleviating the physical, psychological, and emotional discomfort when coming down off amphetamine?

    I would like to hear advice mainly from people who know from experience, not advice based on something you read on erowid or wikipedia.

    How well do opiates work compared to alcohol or benzos? I have used both alcohol and benzos for amphetamine comedowns in the past with moderate success - both work, but it seemed that benzos worked better for me (because alcohol doesn't exactly help with the dehydration you are suffering through).

    My thoughts tend to be very disorganized when coming down; might hydrocodone just add fuel to the fire? I tend to have very bizarre thought processes when nodding on hydrocodone, as well as closed eye visuals which can be uncomfortable and disturbing. But that usually only happens when I'm hungover from drinking and taking hydro.

    Adderall also makes my muscles very weak, and for lack of a better way of describing it, "dried out" feeling. Hydrocodone feels like it sometimes does the same thing.

    I know a lot of people stand by opiates as a medicine of choice for coming down of amphetamine, but the last thing i want to do is accidentally make the comedown worse. It's miserable enough coming down off adderall, I don't want to accidentally throw myself into a 6 hour episode of dizzy nauseating torture.

    Thanks for any responses
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    #2
    Bluelighter
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    It would probably be better to use a more sedating opiate like oral morpine for a come down...oxy and hydrocodone tend to stimulate most people.though sedation does come on afterwards with both drugs,but again,many people find morphine and the -morphones to be much more sedating in general.

    If you do end up using the hydrocodone,use a smaller dose to avoid the nod dreams,that seem very real and are often bizarrre.If you use morphine in the future sometime,just makee sure you dont overdo it,know your tolerance,etc....Morphine tends to carry alot of the more negative side effects of opioids.
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    #3
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    It's not going to make you feel worse; by any means.

    *The worst thing you have to worry about is that, in my opinion, rather, is that this is the easiest way to become addicted to opiates.*

    Because it does this job so well. Perfectly, if I may say so; like you never crashed. Benzos, cannabis & alcohol have nothing on an opioid for an upper crash, be it MDMA, cocaine, amphetamine or a RC of any kind; hydrocodone is a painkiller (narcotic opioid) (if Vicodin it is a painkiller with a pain reliever; tylenol); it takes away discomfort at the neurological source by definition.

    Any opioid, in my opinion, will make you more 'up' and 'awake', but not in a drudgery kind of way that a stimulant crash keeps you up, after a stimulant crash. It may even bring the beginning of the amphetamine high back; but in a purely euphoric way; because the discomfort has been alleviated completely; that heavy weighed down feeling goes away and most people do not even realize they feel better at first; just that they stopped feeling like crap.

    My friend was once complaining of how shitty his body felt, after being up all night on MDMA. I gave him an oxycodone 20mg. Minutes later all he could say is how he 'felt great', I had to remind him of what he was saying just ten minutes prior, of how horrible he felt. He's a heroin addict now. When I first met him, he would *never touch* heroin; it killed his older brother. Now he's been going to multiple doctors to try and get painkiller 'scripts last I heard.

    The people who don't normally "get" opioids, and instead exclusively like meth, etc., tend to get addicted and understand them once they figure out what they do for the crash; and there is where their polydrug addiction starts. They usually then discover how much more difficult an opiate addiction is to shake in comparison to a methamphetamine, etc, addiction.

    So my answer is; a proper dose of hydrocodone (or any such class of opiate) will work so well it will seem like the crash is taken away completely, as if by magic. But it opens the way to heavier amphetamine abuse (because you've discovered the magic cure for the negative side effects) and the beginning of opiate abuse (because you discover that opiates are the cure for not just the negative side effects of drugs, but the negative side effect of every discomforting feeling or emotion, in the most deceptively wholesome feeling way you could imagine)
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    #4
    Yea a lot of people get addicted to Heroin using it to comedown off of crack.

    To the OP,
    I've used a small dose of Hydrocodone to come down off of Adderall. It was the first time I took it 40-60mg I think. Anyways it had kept me up all night and I felt mentally fried in the morning. Took 2 Norco 10/325s and almost instantly felt way better. 20mg of Hydrocodone is a very small dose for me, about 1/4 of what I would use if I wanted to catch a buzz off it. So adjust accordingly.

    Worked very well. I used hydro because I find it to be a lot less stimulating than oxy. If I had morphine I definitely would've used that. Probably the best opiate for a comedown because of how much more sedating it is.
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    #5
    It makes you feel better but like others stated it most likely will keep you awake until it wears off... benzos and alcohol work the best... however opiates are beneficial to stop feeling like shit on a comedown in my experience...
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    #6
    If I had a choice, I'd take a valium or 3 in those type of up all night situations.

    Glad I haven't had one of those in awhile. I do stay up allnight anyways, just not on drugs. So when I'm crashing off stimulants at 9am its like real hell.
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    #7
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    Note of caution; if you take a benzo or barb or alcohol, (any GABAnergic) and have been up all night or days on meth or what-have-you, don't drive. I suppose its a proper thing to say never in any case do so, or operate machinery, on substances; but I say this combination is worse by far in this capacity.

    I drove across state working two parallel full time jobs, day & night shift, on heroin, just sleeping pretty much on the weekends, because it does, it keeps you 'up more' (not saying it is *safe*, but I managed it) if I started to nod I could strain and slap myself out of it... but on Klonopin, (or liquor), one blacks out of consciousness and goes into a fugue state, awake but not really *there*, where you do not care and won't remember. I totaled three vehicles from 1mg oral clonazepam after a week on crystal (sleeping periodically,) I thought my heavy H habit & my racing heart (being in withdrawal) would have kept me up and the Klonopin just ease me, well more fool me. I was *awake*, the skid marks show that I went up on the sidewalk after I totaled the first car and back to avoid the upcoming river drop-off and get to the road leading to the bridge before the red light hitting the second car which was stopped at it. Yet I didn't realize or have any memory of any of this and it was the airbag punching me in the face upon the second collision that "snapped me out of it" and my first memory is the windshield shattering at near the same time. I stumbled out of my newly accordion shaped car, and looked back on something I had no memory of; a string of smashed cars and smoke. Walked away saying I fell asleep at the wheel with just a negligent driving in the second degree ticket because I passed the breathalyzer. That was the beginning of the end for me, my car was my place to sleep at & up to that point. I thought it couldn't get worse for me *after all that* but it did...
    Last edited by Nagelfar; 01-07-2011 at 02:47.
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    #8
    I'm sorry Nagelfar, but I'm just laughing my ass off picturing that scene. And the string of damage you managed to create.

    I used to live in Vancouver area for 5-6 years. Portland actually, but I still miss it alot.
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    #9
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    I can maybe think *that part* is funny in retrospect, but I don't think the people whose nice cars I destroyed thought so.

    ...happened on hwy 99 at the north end.... I had my easiest score ever across the river in Portland; that's where I grew up. But this wasn't too long ago, ran into some guy at the Tri-Met Max stop where the Saturday market is held, this guy I was talking to on the tram said to the *very first guy* he saw (who he *didn't know*, by the way) upon getting off that "hey, this guy here is looking for some heroin"... to which the guy replied... "what do you think I'm doing standing here!", minutes later, we split a bag in a car garage bathroom with a line of people before it; it was kind of weird being a one room little bathroom with a line of guys waiting for their turn, that me and the guy I was standing with went in at the same time when it was our turn in line. Ran into another guy who I never met coming out of the bathroom after I parted ways with the guy who I went in with, asking if I knew where to score because he was sick. He didn't even see us go in or out, so I think that says something about Portland Oregon's heroin scene, at least down by the Saturday market. But I think everyone knows that.

    Actually, that reminds me to update my location, I'm living in Yelm now. (if I wasn't I probably wouldn't be clean.)
    Last edited by Nagelfar; 01-07-2011 at 04:24.
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    #10
    I used to live right across the "steel bridge" from there in the rose quarter.
    Then I also lived at 9th and Marshall down the street kinda from there.

    Portland is a great city. Just the right size so its big enough, but you don't have the big city problems. Friendly people too.
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    #11
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    I lived just north of Lombard & just east of Interstate in north Portland. I like it, proud of it as a hometown and all. Lost the taste for it as a city though. I like the greener, smaller communities in WA state now. I do like the mentality in Portland though, I was outside of 2nd Ave. records downtown once, and someone passing by me, without missing a beat and not even slowing down as they walked past me, pointed to me and said while in step "hey man, I don't know you, but that is everybody else's problem; not mine".. the statement befuddled me for a moment. Then I realized what he meant, but I'm pretty sure he posed it that way purposefully to sound convoluted from the smile on his face. But it was a quintessential Portland street experience.
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    #12
    So today I tried it.
    Took 120mg of adderall last night, stayed up, and felt like absolute shit.
    So an hour ago I took 20mg of hydro and i feel a lot better. But, however, I don't feel high off the hydro at all. I took 20mg the other day and got a decent high, but right now I barely feel it.

    Well, the important thing is that it did at least work in making me feel better.

    I'm going to have to say I like benzos better. Nothing beats a few Xanax or some Valium for helping you ease down off amphetamine...
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    #13
    I've never tried opiates for comedowns but I couldn't really imagine anything better than benzos because they just work perfectly. I suppose opiates may provide more of "feel-good" experience but benzos take completely abolish any comedown anxiety and help get to sleep which to me is priority at that point.
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    #14
    Well the hydro has just worn off and my comedown is back in full force. This wouldn't have happened with benzos.
    Opiates just mask the problems of a stimulant comedown where as benzos actually sort of fix the problem.
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    #15
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    Don't generalize, you used a small amount of hydrocodone; which is basically inactive amongst the opioids and must metabolize. Use a more direct opioid, like oxycodone, before you judge. In my opinion, infinitely superior.
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    #16
    I don't know, opiates don't decrease brain activity like benzos do, which is what your brain needs when coming off amphetamine.
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    #17
    Bluelighter TheLostBoys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpunkySkunk347 View Post
    I don't know, opiates don't decrease brain activity like benzos do, which is what your brain needs when coming off amphetamine.
    How about mixing opiates with a benzo for the comedown? I think it would work great.
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    #18
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpunkySkunk347 View Post
    I don't know, opiates don't decrease brain activity like benzos do, which is what your brain needs when coming off amphetamine.
    I don't know about that, are we speaking conscious activity? And what level of? Again, not very specific. I've known of more cases of fugue state blackout from benzodiazepines, is that conscious decreased activity without autonomic decreased activity? Opioids give a nod and can put you to sleep, but you usually are *aware* of whatever waking activity you commence. I know of a friend who kept clonazepam by his bed, and would keep waking up to take another because he didn't remember taking the first, and would continue to do this until the entire prescription was gone, in one night. On more than one occasion. His girlfriend had to hide the pill bottle from him when he laid down for the night.
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    #19
    Bluelighter Sex Panther's Avatar
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    I highly recommend opiates for coming down off life.

    oh god, i'd take opiates over benzos for coming down off amps ANYDAY. but considering i'd take opiates over amphetamines, it's not such a surprise.

    unless, of course, i was completely, stuck-to-the-ceiling spinning out drug fucked after a meth binge or something, in which case some trusty vals would probably be preferable.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLostBoys View Post
    How about mixing opiates with a benzo for the comedown? I think it would work great.
    totally agree. benzos for the physical comedown, opiates for the mental.
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    #20
    Bluelighter ugly's Avatar
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    I found that I got sick to my stomach trying to use opiates to come off crystal meth. Unisom is safer than opiates for the comedown off this bitch. In my experience, you can expect to puke your guts out for a few hours after you take the opiate on the ice comedown. Benzos are really wonderful for the meth comedown if you can get them. I'd be afraid not to have a benzo while tweaking about. But I have a script, as does my mom and my husband. They are all different scripts (no one will give us zannies though) but klonopin does the trick for me completely.
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    #21
    Bluelighter Nagelfar's Avatar
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    Vomiting from opiates has more to do with opiate naivety than from a mix with a meth comedown, you did too much for your tolerance.
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    #22
    Bluelighter ugly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagelfar View Post
    Vomiting from opiates has more to do with opiate naivety than from a mix with a meth comedown, you did too much for your tolerance.
    I understand that. Opiates always make me vomit if I don't watch my intake super carefully. I've got that about dialed down. Any opiate dose on top of meth makes me sick to my stomach. Any opiate, at any dosage. Probably just a weird thing some people have.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ugly View Post
    Unisom is safer than opiates for the comedown off this bitch.
    I think depending on the formulation of unisom, the drug in it that causes sedation is just an antihistamine, which could be very painful for coming down off amphetamine (or any stimulant), and for a few reasons:

    1. The antihistamine would cause vascular constriction, which amphetamine also does - so any negative physical effects caused by vascular constriction such as cold extremities, high blood pressure, muscle weakness, chest pain, etc would be amplified.

    2. The antihistamine would further dehydrate you

    3. The antihistamines in most (if not all) formulas of unisom are also anticholinergics (as are most antihistamines), which in theory would worsen an amphetamine psychosis. If i remember, amphetamine itself is also an indirect anticholinergic, which is what causes symptoms such as short term memory loss, delusions, bizarre/abnormal thought processes, and dissociation in higher doses.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagelfar View Post
    I don't know about that, are we speaking conscious activity? And what level of? Again, not very specific.
    GABAnergic drugs decrease the excitability of neurons... simple.

    I find it unlikely that your friend "forgot" he took his clonazepam. From my personal experience and the experiences of every other benzo user I know, taking more benzos after taking the initial dose is a common occurrence, not because they forgot they already took some, but because they wanted to - although they may have forgotten all about deciding to take more when they wake up with an empty bottle of benzos.
    Benzo amnesia does not really affect short term memory in the way you describe -- the realization that one has blacked out often does not occur until the drug has started to wear off.

    Now, anti-cholinergic memory impairment, on the other hand, is notorious for causing people to take another dose because they can't remember if they've already taken one. There have been plenty of nights where I couldn't remember how many adderall I had taken, and ended up taking 9 when I only meant to take 3... All the while, my memory got worse as I took more and more adderall. It's a vicious cycle.
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    #25
    Bluelighter suessmayr's Avatar
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    Opiates are BOMB for comedowns. By the end of my clubbing days it was more about getting home to get munted on oxies than it was about the actual night.

    Unless you're opiate tolerance - and it sounds like you're not - I think hydros would be killer.
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