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Thread: Using Heroin when on Methadone Maintenance

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    #51
    Bluelighter Miss Kirsty's Avatar
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    Opi8....Am going down 5mg every 7-10 days or so...Prob could do it a bit faster though...
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    #52
    Bluelighter rachamim's Avatar
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    Crankinit: Where did I say bupe was "useless?" To clarify for the third time, it has only very limited utility vis a vis OST and methadone. O will let you continue spinning those misquoting wheels from this point on since you are merely putting your fingers un your ears, humming loudly in between your oft repeated refrain, "No it ain't!!!" If a reference, I'll be happy to look at it but I am not particularly convinced by your opinion...no offence of course.

    Tommyboy: Have you met very many humans that do NOT cotton to sweets? Basing your opinion that methadone causes a desire for sweets on methadone clients you know just doesnt make sense.
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    #53
    Bluelight Crew Tommyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachamim View Post
    Tommyboy: Have you met very many humans that do NOT cotton to sweets? Basing your opinion that methadone causes a desire for sweets on methadone clients you know just doesnt make sense.
    If you do a google search on "methadone and sweets" you will find a lot of peoples testimonials about how they started to crave sweets when they got on MMT. There have also been studies that back this up. Here is a link to a scholarly article about this. I don't see how it doesn't make sense for me to have this opinion based on people that are on MMT that have experienced this. What else can it be based on? Not everything has a scientific explanation for it, but that doesn't mean that it is not valid.

    If you still don't agree with that and think that it has nothing to do with tooth problems for people on MMT, will you agree that dental problems associated with MMT are because methadone causes dry mouth which makes teeth more prone to plaque which causes gum disease and tooth decay?
    Last edited by Tommyboy; 23-03-2012 at 05:53.
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    #54
    Bluelighter Sublimit's Avatar
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    Arguing whether Subs or methadone is generally more superior than the other seems moot because preference should be based entirely on the individual, circumstance and desire. Having read the thread i really do think the OP'er would benefit from Buprenorphine. Currently on 65mg, OP can spontaneously decide get on and still able to get what seems to be a worthwhile taste... and i think this is one of the OP's habits that stands out as being very detrimental. Buprenorphine takes the spontaneous out of use, and forces one to premeditate their using instead, which is obviously beneficial if the desire is there. In this case Methadone seems to be aiding the use of smack, while i'm sure Bupreorphine would hinder and interrupt the patten of use> iDon't mean to be judgmental but yours comes across as a bit extreme

    I really hope you get your shit together sooner rather than later. I know how it feels to feel like you're in a hole that you can't climb out of. There is no quick fix, you need to be patient. There are so many approaches going about minimization and my advise might seem odd, but also feasible entailing the use of H to switch from methadone to suboxone. I'll assume you could afford that method, and the idea is to make the switch to subs not so terrible by not dosing any methadone for 10-14 days and using a shorter acting full agonist like oxycodone or H. switching to Buprenorphine from a significant amount of methadone or H aint any kind of fun, but the time it takes to stabilize on suboxone would be dramatically reduced with the full agonist.
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    #55
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    Completely anecdotally: I crave sweets when I'm opiated. Always and forever. *shrugs
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    #56
    Bluelighter cassandragemini's Avatar
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    There's heaps of really interesting points in this thread and while it's kind of gone off track i think it's gone into better more helpful discussion. My personal story/opinion is when it comes to choosing what OST is best for just go with what your gut tells you. I went from uncontrollable heroin use, financial destitution and being sick half the time and using codeine CWE's and h when I could afford it, which is a hell of a life, to methadone because i wasn't ready to give up getting high. I knew sub's didn't have much of a buzz so I chose methadone and it was perfect for me at the time. I got high everyday for about a month until I levelled out but would still enjoy the feeling of being loaded up with methadone. But in the end it still kept me in that cycle of getting high, I would wake up sick, drink my dose before I even got out of bed, enjoy for a hour or so and then get bored and then again late at night/early morning be withdrawaling again. I still tried to use h a bunch of times chasing a high and got pretty much nothing out of it, even on 35mg and switching to h for a couple of days I still wouldn't get a decent rush 95% of the time so I started using more methadone, I would take my dose twice or three times somedays and stay 'doned up all day and would then have to use h or codeine to get by in between my takeaways, especially while working and getting 5 take homes in a go. I ended up turning into a mess again, my girlfriend was on the verge of leaving me, I was depressed and tired and unpredictable and was losing touch with some of my best friends. It was then I realised I was sick of the abuse, living day to day and wasting away the best years of my life so I made the switch to sub's in desperation. And it worked a fucken treat, the first 3-4 days were hell, the switch was so brutal I literally couldn't get out of bed and nearly lost my job but all of a sudden I felt better and different and good, not opiate good but just clean old me good. I only twice have ever felt sub's and what I could feel wasn't great, it's surprising that it's quite often abused and sold on the black market - I would rather codeine over subs in terms of pleasure it's so boring, it's like the vanilla of the opiate world. And not the good vanilla the crap one like the vanilla ice cream your mum would bring home instead of goody goody gum drops or chocolate chip. But its kind of that about suboxone that makes it work, it's just a non event, I wake up fine now, have my dose and feel nothing from it and just go about my day, it seems to break that cycle of addiction and abuse, you don't need it daily or every few hours it's just kind of in you keeping you from being sick. I thought I would use more h on subs at first but after one go at it and getting nothing out of a .4 with 30+ hours since my last sub dose I haven't even bothered again. For me it was perfect, I was tired of chasing a high and just needed some mental rest from the amount of thinking and planning and scheming you do while being on other opiates, even methadone - especially when you get down to 40-30mg a day - its really helped me turn my life around. I wouldnt say it's a miracle drug though, I have fortnightly therapy sessions and have to work on it still but it's definitely helped me. Had I chosen suboxone first I would have fucked out and gone back smack within a week, I was chasing a high when I started OST and methadone gave me that and thank fuck for it being there. Its much better it being there than not, even if it only helped me that makes it very worthy to me. Now my attitude has changed and I just want to be clean and stable and happy. Subs give me that, withdrawaling off them to get clean will hurt but that's what I want now. I think OP of this thread should give away the smack altogether and go on a high dose of methadone, go as high as you need to get you high and warm and fuzzy and get some stability back in your life. A 120-200mg daily dose could hold you and hopefully satisfy you enough that you wont reach for the needle, it might still be tough for a while so do whatever you need to dose wise but at least you can get some stabilty in your life and get out of the total chaos that is your life when seriously addicted to h. Then you can just relax and rest for a while and then slowly patch things together. If youre ready to get away from that then maybe switch to sub's and see how it goes. I wish we had more options than methadone of suboxone, having an extended release morphine tablet like they do in a few European countries could really help a lot of people, it'll cause problems for sure but if it keeps 10% of current h users from using and causes more trouble for 9% it's still worth it. And controlled heroin for long time total addicts could help as well, people often choose a drug and only want that, methadone worked for me but if it didnt then having thr option to legally use heroin would at least stop the majority of the damage i did to myself and society. 'd love to see it be at least trialled here. And I would love to have a separate clinic for people who want to get clean, not just maintain. My current doc clinic is a fucked up drug den. People organise deals and swaps outside and Ive bought Valium and serepax off people after an appointment which is terrible, it's almost like a clubhouse where addicts on various drugs can meet and trade. My doctor is talking about starting a clinic where he chooses patients and treats them in a way so they can get clean, he's good too, weird but good. Anyway off track ramblings, goodluck to the op and the rest of us addicts, we need it.
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    #57
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    ^ You really need to use spaces, that chunk of text is huge.
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    #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi2jax View Post
    am i completely wastin my cash
    Hate to bare the bad news, but I think yes....

    Asking your question in The Other Drugs section of this site will yield a lot more/accurate answers.

    I'm pretty sure black tar herion is fairly rare in Australia, I'm sure it's there, but from you mentioning it, that made me think your from America. Ask some folks in an American forum for better advice regarding black tar.

    Your dose of methadone, and how long you've been taking it for, would be helpful information for people trying to answer your questions

    One thing I have heard is, if your on a high dose methadone for a prolonged time, your general opiate tolerance could be redicoulous, you might find that the black tar does nothing to you, and hence become a pointless task (and slightly risky).

    Don't quote me on this, but if you go days without methadone so you can get high on H (lowering your tolerance so it works), you could quite easily overstep your H dose and ultimately overdose.

    EDIT: after a slack research I've found that you will need redicoulus amounts of H or any other recreational opiate to feel anything you desire (a costly cause), nothing I'm advocating at all, this is a harm reduction site so I'm slightly against what your trying to find out.

    I have no experience in this field, but these are what I've found so far.

    Research friend, there's heaps of people out there in your position.
    Last edited by Captain Brewster; 27-09-2013 at 05:13.
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    #59
    65mg methadone for ~3 weeks, before that I started at 30mg and went up 5mg every other day. There is a gram sitting and gazing at me in the most seductive way. How much of this will need to be done at once to minimize waste and maximize feeling absolutely ANYTHING?
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    #60
    Bluelighter the_ketaman's Avatar
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    Zero point in trying to use while on methadone. I'm on 85mg of methadone and I need at least a gram usually more. I don't even bother anymore.
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    #61
    hurmmm
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    #62
    I used to buy methadone from users, not sure if thats allowed here but it was cheap and better than what I was taking though I would never be able to find it now.
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    #63
    Bluelight Crew footscrazy's Avatar
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    I've moved several posts talking about using on bupe to the methadone, buprenorphine and other opioid pharmacotherapies thread which is more appropriate for that topic.
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    #64
    Bluelighter the_ketaman's Avatar
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    It's such a massive waste to dose over 50 - 80mg of methadone then try to use. It won't work. If I'm desperate I take a day, preferably 2 off then I feel it. If I really want to get high I get another bottle of methadone, IV it (stupid but it's Bio-Done and while not good for veins, it's nothing compared to the cherry. And contrary to popular belief, it hits you harder, stronger n gives you an actual "high" when IV'D. Only 50mg more is need for me
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    #65
    Greenlighter knotrkr's Avatar
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    I was still able to feel other narcotics until I was raised to 80 mgs. Then I stopped feeling it therefore I stopped doing it. I haven't done anything but my daily dose for 4 years now.
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    Using heroin with methadone 
    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritFolk View Post
    You need heaps and even then its mainly just a rush....

    Basically for me was a total waste of time until I was on 20mg daily - 30mg max, and then it doesn't hold you anyways. I spent years trying to find the balance but ended up either nit getting stoned and being just methadone'ed out all fuckin day and looking like crap, or getting high but basically running a methadone and H habit simutaneously.

    Glad I'm off methadone completely and just kicked daily opiate use all together.

    I started dosing on methadone today it has been 11 hrs they started me at 30mg and I don't feel too good now 11 hrs later if I dose on heroin will I feel it's effects?
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    #67
    yes you will if the dose is high enough. i dont condone mixing two potent narcotics together as it increases chance of overdose.

    opt out on the heroin and stabilise on the 'done if youre serious of getting off the smack. otherwise go ahead but trea
    d extremely cautiously, making sure not to add any other central nervous depressants, like beer, benzos, etc. again, they will increse the chances of an overdose.

    try checking out other threads similar to this via the search engine for expansive information on the subject.

    stay safe buddy.
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by opi8 View Post
    Because I'm using so much per shot now and not really feeling the effects, at what stage will it become dangerous? 2 Grams, 3?

    Been using for years buddy the soner u know it's dangerous from the minute you stick it in your arm,leg,Tonge,bum etc the better ...

    Careful mate ...
    Last edited by HCM; 26-03-2016 at 12:24.
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    #69
    bump

    so many names and so many people not around anymore. Makes me wonder where everyone is at these days.

    Anyway back to the subject at hand. If you were on 20-30mg of methadone and had 100mg of street heroin would it break through? Now I appreciate that you can't PWD with methadone and other opiates but when the heroin wears off are there any effects that one would notice? Do you get some cold sweats for a few minutes or is it a seamless cut over between a warm nod and the methadone?

    Or would one give oneself a bump i.e. 5mg of methadone?

    I've been working hard to stay on a really low dose of methadone since moving from 8mg of Suboxone to Methadone. Everyone from my doctor to my chemist have all commented how low a dose it is. Is it really? Once i got through the withdrawals the other day it seems pretty good actually.

    After reading the huge battle in this thread i've noted

    - I've got less constipation
    - about the same amount of energy
    - methadone definitely has a far superior analgesic effect then bupe does at threshold dosing that opiate replacement program patients get. Sure if your on 8mg of bupe and you triple dose you'll feel something (especially if you have a quick nap whilst you let it absorb) but at 30mg of methadone I've found that some pain that I have (hence the move from B to M) is almost gone.
    - no desire for sweets although as i am on a strict diet as of late I have found myself being able to taste the sweetness in strange foods like zucchini and carrots. The other day the carrot juice i was drinking tasted like some sugar upped Boast Juice. Maybe Methadone just makes sugars more noticeable on the palate?
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