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    Adderall not working anymore, would Dexedrine work? 
    #1
    I was diagnosed with ADD and I've been taking adderall for almost 2 years off/on(both xr and ir). The first few weeks were amazing and I felt there was some hope for me educationally and socially. After about 2 months, I could tell it wasn't working nearly as well and the crash was terrible. So I started using it as needed but realized that my tolerance raised incredibly fast. I started at 10mg XR my first time and a few months later I was up to 60mgs IR. I also was using it recreationally with doses ranging from 60mg-120mg IR. Now when I take it (usually 30-60mg ir) I get a mood lift and increased focus for about 1 1/2 hours and then I start coming down slowly. 4 hrs after I dose I'm crashing hard (I've always had really bad comedowns with addy even at low doses). I've tried to potentiate it every way possible, took doses from 10mg-150+ and nothing I do works.

    My question is if I could get prescribed Dexedrine, which is supposed to be a lot smoother and "cleaner" without the all the PNS stimulation (which was probably causing such bad crashes), would it work better/more consistent than adderall?

    I've tried Vyvance which sucked in terms of attention/focus and no mood lift (nice side effect with uppers). I was taking 70mgs of it and it took 2+ hours to kick in and it was very VERY subtle, in fact I fell asleep a few hours after taking it. I think its the "pro-drug" technology and my body is metabolizing it really slow. Methylphenidate products don't work at all for me. I get really spacey, tired, and just blah.

    Any ideas, suggestions? I have a TON of school work ahead of me bc this is my last year at university and I'm worried I won't be able to handle it
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    #2
    Bluelight Crew Tripman's Avatar
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    I also was using it recreationally with doses ranging from 60mg-120mg IR
    Here's where you went wrong.

    If you have any hope for a drug to be therapeutic then using it for recreation is not an option.

    Dexedrine is a better medication than adderall for ADD except I think you're tolerance is going to make it hard to get much from any ADD medication
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    ^Exactly. Your doses are extremely high, you need to get your tolerance down to a level that an ADD prescription could help you with.

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    I don't think that Dexedrine is the answer. You need to limit both the frequency and size of your doses first, in order to lower your tolerance without experiencing that much mental withdrawal. I have found that switching from Dexedrine to Adderall can help, but not the other way around. You are already taking a large dose of d-amphetamine, so switching to another drug that is only d-amphetamine likely won't help.

    The reason why I have found switching from Dexedrine to Adderall to help is because the mixture of amphetamines in Adderall at least adds some different amphetamines into the mix, and although there is cros tolerance, it's better than simply increasing your dose of one that you are already taking large doses of.

    The best thing to do is either take your medication strictly as directed, or take a lower dose than prescribed on "average days," allowing you to take your usual dose plus the extras that you saved for when you have tests, papers, projects, etc...
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    Bluelighter ErgicMergic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripman View Post
    If you have any hope for a drug to be therapeutic then using it for recreation is not an option.
    THIS.

    ADD'ers are screwing themselves over every time they put their medication up their nose, up their ass, or when they take a higher dose for recreation. Don't look for a "nice mood lift," forced motivation, or procrastination relief from ADD medications. Those are honeymoon side effects, which go away very quickly. They are only meant for regulating focus to a "normal transmitting" level, the rest is up to you.

    Dexedrine will not be as good for inattentive ADD, but might be good for the hyperactive or anxious ADDers that already have a high level of norepinephrine to begin with.

    Dexedrine feels subjectively weaker than Adderall, due to the lack of levoamphetamine. Being on Adderall feels like you're "on drugs," whereas pure dextroamphetamine, even though it's a stronger CNS stimulant, feels a lot weaker. It just gives you focus without lighting a fire under your ass.
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    #6
    You guys are right. BUT I only did those big doses every few months, it wasn't a daily or even weekly thing. Honestly, half the reason I tried the big doses was because taking the therapeutic dose had become ineffective. I'm going to take a break from adderall over the summer and see if I can lower my tolerance and then switch over to dexedrine if I can get it.

    ErgicMergic: I disagree with Dexedrine not being good for inattentive add'ers like me simply for the fact that it has a higher binding affinity to dopamine receptors. I'm pretty sure that inattentive peeps with ADD have a lower amount of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex while the hyperactive peeps have a higher amount. Thats why these drugs calm them down but make me feel more awake and focused. Hyperactive add'ers usually do well with the various forms of methylphenidate (i don't have any cited webpages or anything but I have heard that a lot from various forums and even doctors)

    I don't want to feel like I'm on drugs, I just want something that will keep me alert, focused and motivated, as well as to help avoid procrastination. That is what these meds were made for dude! To help rid ADD'ers of those classic symptoms.
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    #7
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    Well you are already getting the active ingridient in Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) in you Adderall, only you are getting 75% of it along with 25% of the l-amp amphetamine salts, which is why I don't think that the answer is switching from Adderall to Dexedrine. If your tolerance has risen that high, I doubt that getting 25% more dextroamphetamine will make much of a difference. If you felt that you were experiencing negative side effects from the l-amp in the adderall then I would say to give the dexedrine I try, but your case seems to be more about tolerance.
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    Bluelighter THE_REAL_OBLIVION's Avatar
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    Just no, read the ingredients of both...

    Get the 15mg spansules multiple times a day, that you're only hope now.

    e: I forgot Vyvanse, probably because I'd have to pay to get it unlike Dexedrine.
    Last edited by THE_REAL_OBLIVION; 11-05-2012 at 09:02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crestfallen View Post
    Honestly, half the reason I tried the big doses was because taking the therapeutic dose had become ineffective...I just want something that will keep me alert, focused and motivated, as well as to help avoid procrastination. That is what these meds were made for dude! To help rid ADD'ers of those classic symptoms.
    Oh boy, you are really looking for love in all the wrong places. Whatever I've underlined is "what these meds for made for, dude." Looking for sustained motivation and procrastination relief from amphetamines is like looking for sustained nodding off opiates: it's not going to happen, and you are going to keep on raising and raising your dosages due to perceived "ineffectiveness." The meds haven't lost effectiveness, you're just past the honeymoon phase.

    Time logs, daily planners, time management techniques, cognitive behavioral therapy, ADD coaches, support groups, cell phone alarms, good diet, a restorative sleep filled with REM, minerals, vitamins, and exercise... THESE things help with motivation and procrastination, not your little pills stamped "B974." Disagree all you want, btw, I don't care. These posts will still be read by open minded people who rely on more than medication to sort out their lives.

    Medication is just a piece of the ADD treatment puzzle.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ErgicMergic View Post
    Oh boy, you are really looking for love in all the wrong places. Whatever I've underlined is "what these meds for made for, dude." Looking for sustained motivation and procrastination relief from amphetamines is like looking for sustained nodding off opiates: it's not going to happen, and you are going to keep on raising and raising your dosages due to perceived "ineffectiveness." The meds haven't lost effectiveness, you're just past the honeymoon phase.

    Time logs, daily planners, time management techniques, cognitive behavioral therapy, ADD coaches, support groups, cell phone alarms, good diet, a restorative sleep filled with REM, minerals, vitamins, and exercise... THESE things help with motivation and procrastination, not your little pills stamped "B974." Disagree all you want, btw, I don't care. These posts will still be read by open minded people who rely on more than medication to sort out their lives.

    Medication is just a piece of the ADD treatment puzzle.
    Whats in bold is right where you are wrong. That is why they are used for ADD/ADHD. A better analogy would have been "That's like looking for sustained pain relief on opiates" You obviously have something going on or else you wouldn't have such douchebag responses. The meds are to used to keep the negative effects of ADD at bay for a period of time. Whose to say that I'm not doing all the other things? You just assumed that I am looking for an easy way out therefore you are a judgemental prick. Don't bother responding
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    #11
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    I have been on Dexedrine for years now and I can honestly tell you that it is the best ADD/ADHD medication out there. Nothing is superior. It's a lot smoother than Adderall and much more effective than Ritalin.
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    I have been on Dexedrine for years now and I can honestly tell you that it is the best ADD/ADHD medication out there. Nothing is superior. It's a lot smoother than Adderall and much more effective than Ritalin.
    With the exception of Desoxyn (which is not very common so it's often not even considered) I completely agree with you, although this is all subjective of course.
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    #13
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    Crestfallen, not trying to be a douche lol, just trying to reduce harm, this is BL after all.

    I hope you realize that euphoria, stimulation, motivation, procrastination relief, appetite suppression, and insomnia are all symptoms of an excess amount of prefrontal cortex DA.

    Check out my post in another Amphetamine thread:
    Even if used almost every day, if one were to hypothetically stay in a dosage range of 10-15mg MAX of dex/adderall a day to simply treat ADD, and took all the proper supplements to prevent neurotoxicity, and proper NMDA antagonists such as Magnesium and Zinc to prevent tolerance from increasing, how can this be harmful?

    It's the people taking more than 20mg of dexedrine/adderall a day that are setting themselves up for failure. ADD medications should only be used to bring your prefrontal cortex DA levels to "normal transmitting" levels; basically, these should only be used to make focus normal, not provide you with forced motivation. These drugs are supposed to regulate focus, the rest is up to you.

    A lot of ADD people are prescribed an abusive dosage of amphetamine, since they are using it to force themselves to do things they don't want to do.

    I know I probably offended a lot of people with this post, and I meant no offense, it's just that so many non-drug addicts take tiny doses of amp that it's unfair to make assumptions about amps in general. I have to say I agree with everything written in this thread, though, and want to say this: using it for productivity and cramming schoolwork is where problems appear, using it to make your ADD brain function on an average (non-productive) level is not harmful.

    ...

    Relying on a dopamine boost to artificially increase your productivity is the real problem, so whether you get that motivation from opiates or amphetamines makes no difference.

    Minimal doses of non-methamphetamines are not neurotoxic, and not addictive; the ones who are abusing it are tainting its reputation.
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    #14
    Bluelighter kokaino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricomb View Post
    With the exception of Desoxyn (which is not very common so it's often not even considered) I completely agree with you, although this is all subjective of course.
    Well, Desoxyn is very, very rarely ever prescribed. In fact, some doctors aren't even aware that its available for prescription. In another thread I posted that 4.7% of adult Americans suffer ADD/ADHD and roughly 50% are treated with Ritalin. Desoxyn represents less than 0.1% of all prescriptions for those suffering ADD/ADHD, narcolepsy, and morbid obesity. So the chances of finding someone with a prescription for Desoxyn is the same as winning the lottery. Even if a doctor were to consider prescribing it, he would do a good background check on the patient, probably have the patient bring in a family member for further information and it is completely and totally NOT EVER prescribed for drug addicts or even recovering drug addicts. Typically those that are prescribed it are over the age of 30 and have been battling ADD/ADHD for a long, long time. In clinical terms, it's not superior to Dexedrine. The two are equipotent (5 mg = 5 mg) and studies have shown that it is no more effective than Dexedrine.
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    #15
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    1) I didn't mention anything about Desoxyn being clinically superior to Dexedrine, I mentioned that the experiences on which you and I passed judgement were subjective, that's all.

    2) How did you find out that less than 0.1% of all prescriptions for it's FDA approved indications?

    3) I wouldn't be so quick to assume that doctors would "typically" perform a background check on the patient, let alone a "good background check". This has never been my experience when obtaining Desoxyn from my psychiatrists. Most of the time, they say "Desoxyn?" Then look it up in the PDR, then say "Oh, okay, sorry about that I haven't even heard of this medication before"
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    #16
    1) Check your diet and sleep habits, a amphetamine habit won't make up for either of those and frankly they're probably the biggest thing for tolerance.
    2) NEVER USE ADHD MEDS RECREATIONALLY
    3) After agreeing to the above, you could always try the NMDA antagonist approach or my curcumin approach. Its got a 9/21 positive response rate (it also potentiates the living hell out of amphetamines so be aware), and appears to work well for reversing tolerance in the reports I've gotten.
    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/6...-Prevention-II
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    #17
    Thanks for the info. I honestly think that is how they should and are meant to be used. When I was first diagnosed by a psychiatrist, she wrote me a script for 100 tabs of 10mg Adderall and told me "Experiment with the doses and find what works for you". Of course I got a rush and equated that to the medicine working. Having an addictive personality and a huge supply of adderall, I went a little overboard trying to capture the feeling of my first use.

    Anyways, I'm going to take a break, use those type of supplements, and try to do it right the next time around. The effects are so short lived so I guess I stick with something like Vyvanse or dex spansules if I can.
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    #18
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    whenever i started abusing my add meds, that was when they stopped working therapeutically, cause my tolerance would be pushed through the roof by my unholy dosages
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    Well, Desoxyn is very, very rarely ever prescribed... In clinical terms, it's not superior to Dexedrine. The two are equipotent (5 mg = 5 mg) and studies have shown that it is no more effective than Dexedrine.
    Desoxyn is often considered the holy grail by people who have used it therapeutically. From what I've read, 5mg (which is the only dose available) last most, if not all of the day. You get the kick from adderall but not the speedy-tweaked out feeling. Hardly any side effects and very very minimal crashes. Rapid onset with a long and very smooth onset of action. Sounds like the perfect drug for ADD. But those are all quotes from experience reports I have read. Its damn near impossible to get though
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    Quote Originally Posted by crestfallen View Post
    Thanks for the info. I honestly think that is how they should and are meant to be used. When I was first diagnosed by a psychiatrist, she wrote me a script for 100 tabs of 10mg Adderall and told me "Experiment with the doses and find what works for you". Of course I got a rush and equated that to the medicine working. Having an addictive personality and a huge supply of adderall, I went a little overboard trying to capture the feeling of my first use.

    Anyways, I'm going to take a break, use those type of supplements, and try to do it right the next time around. The effects are so short lived so I guess I stick with something like Vyvanse or dex spansules if I can.
    No problem!

    Yeah, a lot of people try to get those first few amphetamine highs back, but it's impossible, and chasing that dragon will only lead you down a dark road.

    I have the same problem with amphetamines lasting not long enough, and I prefer the Dex IR 10mg tabs over the ER spansules.

    What I do is first dose 7.5mg (t: 0:00), then dose 5mg at t +3:00, then dose 2.5mg at t+5:00, then another 2.5mg at t+7:00, and so on until 17.5mg (very rarely, 20mg) is reached. This is known as chronic dosing, and since the amphetamine half life is so long (12 hours IIRC), all you need are little "booster doses" to get the full therapeutic (focusing/alertness) effect back.
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    #21
    Just wondering what brand of dex IR do you use? Since actual "brand name" Dexedrine/Dextrostat is off the market, which ones are the best?

    I've heard that Barr dex IR/spansules are terrible, which I believe because Teva/Barr's generic adderall is like taking a sugar pill with half the efficacy of others. I hear that Mallincrokodt (sp?) is the best one but then again, I think those are the only 2 available lol. Barr has actually been caught by the FDA because they were putting less of the active ingredient in their adderall
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    #22
    Bluelighter ErgicMergic's Avatar
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    Ugh, don't believe everything you read on that unnamed forum for ADD people. Placebo effect is so massive that it will definitely make a difference. Teva (owns Barr now) has some dirty manufacturing processes, for example their Dextroamphetamine was found to contain 4% (or was it 0.4% ) L-amp, but by and large, these things don't make a difference. Plus they take such massive doses because "teehee everyone is wired differently!" Not to worry, people. Bluelight is here to dispel the bullshit.

    I use the Barr 10mg IR Dex, and got ahold of some from 2009 as well to compare. That forum will tell you that post-2010 Barr Dex IR's are inconsistent and weak, but they felt exactly the same to me. Shows you how significant the placebo effect can be, and how they are confusing tolerance to the excess DA effects as inconsistency and weak products. The Barr 10mg IR's are potent and effective in my experience.

    The Barr Dex ER's are not liked because their bead release system is plain jane, and I agree, I didn't like their capsules too much. Just know the drug inside is totally the same, it's just the Spansule release system that is patented to Amedra/Corepharma (previously belonged to GSK) that releases the same drug more efficiently.

    Mikart is coming out with generic Dex, as is Mallincrokodt (or however the fuck you spell it), but Mikart's coming out with 7 dosage amounts, from 2.5mg all the way to 30mg. When I told my classmate they were coming out with 30mg Dex IR's, he just looked at me and said, "people are gonna die."
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    #23
    Bluelighter THE_REAL_OBLIVION's Avatar
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    I know this is a very late reply but....where is Dexedrine brand name out of the market ? In canada it is the only option available, no generics! It's like the opposite as usual as we do get generics for everything before everybody. Same with Adderall...not only do we only get Adderall XR, but there is no such thing as "amphetamine salts mix" here...weird.


    Could it be because they almost never script anything else than ritalin ? I'm serious most kids don't even know about concerta or hmm, i had a pdf sheet showing the add meds they use in my province...there's something else that starts with D that is the same concept as Concerta (not sure why it even exists)..see, i don't even know the names of these things because I was one lucky mofo in getting dexedrine not even from a psychiatrist but from a GP.
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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokaino View Post
    I have been on Dexedrine for years now and I can honestly tell you that it is the best ADD/ADHD medication out there. Nothing is superior. It's a lot smoother than Adderall and much more effective than Ritalin.
    ever heard of desoxyn? THE best stimulant there is. Recreational OR therapeutic, it does the job better than anything. thank god its not smokable though, cause i would vaping that shit all day if it was. in low doses, desoxyn reminds me a little bit of opiates. euphoria with sedation.
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    Yeah we already discussed it. Scroll up
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