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Thread: Solubility and suggestions for PURE Alprazolam/Diazepam

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    Solubility and suggestions for PURE Alprazolam/Diazepam 
    #1
    Flask
    Hey guys,

    Regular BL'er just was easier to whip up a new account for this quick question. I know this topic has been discussed previously but I do not feel as if there is a well written, good outline of practices and universal supplies. Feel free to edit/move/delete, just figured you guys were the ones to come to!

    My mate popped over on the weekend with what I considered to be a bunch of highly potent powder. Myself, I'm not game until there is a practice in which a dose can be measure accurately.

    My post is in direct regards to Alprazolam but I believe same principles would apply to Diazepam although I've done very little investigation myself.

    I understand that the likely best option would be use a suitable solvent to dissolve the substance so that it has a ML/MG ratio/dosage however you wish to put it.

    After some heavy googling I've decided upon 30ml glass eye droppers. Apparently all droppers are the same in the sense of inaccuracy but on average, 20 drops from a standard drop squeezed at a normal speed will be equivalent to 1ML. You know the amber vial types with glass baby pipette and rubber squeezy thing aha. Well labeled, protected from sunlight and any hands who should not have access all seems safe. It's obviously a "medicine".

    Correct me, please, if my math is wrong here... Bit slow today. 30ml * 20 drops = 600 drops of the solution. The solution should be diluted to as to disperse a single drop as close to 0.25MG as possible. 4 drops = standard xanax brick which would equate to 150mg of Alprazolam for every 30ml. Yeah?

    My biggest concern and what makes me think this is within the scope of HM is the dangers of OD/unintentional over consumption PARTICULARLY with the nature of the drug. If I don't well, basically sort out something for him to dose accurately I'm concerned of the consequences. Hes currently eyeballing and I think the only thing keeping him "safe" is a tolerance but on a bender I just knowwww what will happen. Either way they're likely to be bad, just one may be fatally worse than the other.

    Would it be possible/fine to use Glycerine Liquid as a solvent? I think I saw something mentioned in a Phenaz thread regarding this.

    Alternatively what about 99% pure Isopropyl Alcohol? Now as far as I'm aware that shit is NOT to be drank but due to the tiny volume required damage may be negligible. The IPA is 99% as mentioned and comes from a proper industrial supplier.

    All too often I see shit about everclear being the best thing for almost everything except drinking but seems borderline impossible to obtain. In Melbourne at least.

    Whilst googling around on how to accurately dose this power shit I came across some Xanax perforated tabs apparently loaded at 2mg. This may or may not be within the scope of BL but I think that so long as it is a feasible option for safety it should/could be okay. As always theres pro's and con's and different priorities. First priority as you may have noticed is safety/accurate dosing. Secondly is storage and generally keeping a low key household, I suspect I'm going to have to take some of his stash away from him for his own personal safety. It was a blessing for him stumbling upon this magic but I feel a wave of danger and hurt about to hit.

    Would I be able to get some suggestions on the solution or the laying of tabs. I understand that the correct paper must be used it is more so technique and equations to work out about absorption etc that hopefully someone can chime in about...

    I figure with 4 drops to a bar it works in similar way too normal bricks in the sense you can have a light, medium or strong dose (obv. tolerance factors play a role in this but I'm sure you get what I mean).

    Am I overlooking things? etc etc .... Mr. B... P_D... I'm looking riiiiiight at you

    Let your thoughts flow !! Much appreciated
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    #2
    Bluelighter ayjay's Avatar
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    WTF???? ALprazolam and diazepam are very different beasts. You need to be a bit clearer about what you actually have. Also - 20 drops to a ml? Really? Just grab some 1ml syringes from a needle exchange ffs. Solvents? Look up some Material Safety Data Sheets. But you could probably use canola oil
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    #3
    Propylene Glycol is what you want - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

    Available online from places in Australia (usually they call it PG, often sold next to VG (vegetable glycerin) on the webpage) Not sure if I can give you a source, but shouldn't be too hard to find. Difficult to find in stores (unlike VG)

    Just do something basic like 100mg into 200ml, giving you a 0.5mg/ml. Don't use eyedroppers or anything like that, grab some syringes as ayjay mentioned and use them. Eyedroppers are nowhere near accurate enough for dosing this kind of thing.

    I'd avoid using alcohol, since you wouldn't want any in your system along with the benzo. You could make the benzo really concentrated in a small amount of pure alcohol, but I'd rather have larger amounts to work with - it's just safer than a super concentrated benzo solution that you could easily mis-dose while under the influence.

    I've used PG a few times so that's what I can recommend. It can take a little while to dissolve...I'd do the mixing in a clean non-cluttered area in a pyrex dish or something similar. You can add a little heat to speed up the process (just don't use too much), and stir, stir, stir.

    PG is one of the main things used in the pharmaceutical industry to make solutions with stuff that doesn't dissolve in water. (they make IV diazepam with PG as the solvent) Keep in mind what you'd be buying probably wouldn't be pharmaceutical grade though...
    Last edited by Christ!; 28-05-2012 at 12:16.
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    #4
    I make complete acknowledgement to my ignorance regarding the differences between aprazolam and diazepam. Consider this thread just about Alprazolam. Sorry for confusion.

    The twenty drops of a substance with similar viscosity to water is really considered standard. Standard to the point in which it is used in hospitals to such a degree with certain drugs. Although no sources, just what I read today in my many hours of getting deep into the internet.

    The actual amount of ML dispersed isn't such a concern. I couldn't care less if it was a hundred drops to a ML, in that instance I'd just encourage my friend to make his solution stronger to correlate to 1 drop, 0.25mg of Alprazolam. Unless there is factors of solubility, eg theres no way you can fit 0.25MG of Alp into 1/20th of a ML or whatever. Basically, consistency in strength of a drop is soon realised after some use and if 1 drop is only ~0.25mg then there isn't so much of a concern if it is 0.18mg in a tiny drop or 0.32mg in a fat one. Ya get me?

    Yes I completely agree about the syringe and solution but these are implements I'd much rather not have in the house and I feel uncomfortable even mentioning the word syringe around my friend as some years ago he had troubles with IV meth. A phase in which he has passed.

    Basically, a bottle like this:



    stashed in a medical cabinet or wherever away from children/anyone bar myself is much nicer than a GHB-like bottle and a syringe. I understand and agree with this forum being about little bias and leaving stigma at the door, but surely you can understand why I wish to avoid having syringes in my home.

    My friend and I have a very honest relationship about drug abuse and look out for each other. He knows I'm a geek and would enjoy this quest and also is happy in himself knowing its somewhat detached from him.

    I believe (bloody hope he still has...) about half a G of pure Alprazolam powder. Although I'm sure the person who he got it off has more if that has some influence (IE - with x amount of product you could do this etc).

    Canola oil seems less desirable than this stuff (sorry if this is breaking any rules. it's a basic food additive):
    http://www.mfcd.net/store/product.asp?pID=641&cID=10

    Could someone explain the solubility of Alprazolam? Why suggest Canola oil?

    Basically I would like to help this guy have a consistent (obviously shake vial/bottle) first dose within the margins of say 0.2 - 0.3 per drop within a single self contained discrete unit. None of this syringe business, it's just not accepted although I do not judge.

    The half gram does not have all go in the one vial. It can be split up. I'm just looking for suggestions and pointers as I've never done anything like this before but I do have a huge focus on HM and taking into account all reasonable and responsible considerations. I'm looking for advice, guides, things to watch out for, previous experience people have had with such things (maybe not so much the horror stories as I've read enough hence trying to mitigate potential fallout)

    Much appreciated and thank you BL. I probably too often think where the fuck would we be without BL... well a lot of people anyways.

    ------

    Just saw your response Christ!, bloody legend really appreciate your down to earth posts. We've chatted on other forums in the past.

    I completely understand accuracy being an issue with eyedropper but would you not think that considering what I'm aiming to knock up for him be dosed at 0.25MG a drop so therefore if he got a whopper one for instance it wouldn't be so bad, or even if he got two drops on the most 'fat' side of things. Fair enough if it were 1MG drops I was aiming for or something with a bit more force.

    I'm almost certainly going to be the one who would dose my mate as it is the kind of arrangement we have especially with his history and I am very careful with everything, always weighed on MG scale etc (cept weed :P ) So in this instance, although may need to be considered for other users there is a difference between drop and squeezing out everything in the pipette!

    I do encourage all to do a bit of reading on the size of a drop. For something named a 'drop' its remarkable how unanimous it is that 1ML = 20 drops in your standard dropper.

    I too agree with more volume to play with, more room for inaccuracy than a 0.01th of a ML too much being the difference between cruise and unconscious. Unlikely i know!

    Unfortunately syringes are just not appropriate. I understand users on here use them and I have no issues with that, but when a needle becomes a common sight for what we would use as recreational drugs, something in my house.... I don't like it. Ya get what I mean? You can ge screw top lids droppers that are calibrated with ML lines on the side so I see little difference in that department. But once again, open for all input and thoughts!

    It seems the way things are going, more things are super potent and require diligent care which well frankly.... both Australians and drug users are not so famous for :P

    Thanks for the responses. Point out my bullshit and educate me
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    #5
    Go to the chemist and get an oral syringe then? Syringe is not synonymous with needle.
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    #6
    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    ^ this
    if accuracy is so important (and it is!) you can't be too careful. "drops" are too variable - they can easily be twice what you are estimating, which totally negates the purpose. oral syringes are nothing like fits, except for how they work and how accurate they are

    i understand your hesitation, but really it's the only way; unless you want to look into laying tabs (a la LSD) but that seems a little finicky and variable IMO. i've had my dalliances with IV drug use - also in the past - and i personally don't feel any sort of 'trigger' effect when using an oral syringe.
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    #7
    Yes tabs!!! I keep a very organised life, i'm bonkers. I like things self contained. Don't like implements such as bongs although i am fully aware of positives and negatives on both sides. So lets say I've got a bunch of 21 year old girls who come from respectable back rounds but do enjoy a night out on top quality MD. Often ends up back here. No fucking way in hell am I whipping out any syringe. Both due to my mate where it would be more of a regular thing and those reasons but also in social situations in which I like to consume often with the kind who would scoff at a crackpipe/only had seen on the ben cousins documentary thing...


    Am I able to get a rundown on what paper, solvent etc would be suitable and method. I dont mind tedious work to do once, leave within a book for special occasions and not have to have a syringe in the house whos only purpose is to dose benzos.

    I know this sounds stupid to a lot of users... I keep a drug free house almost 100% unless you consider 500MG mdma a lot and hopefully we can work out a way in which I can help my firend as I have self control and he does not..... but he has lots of quality. Dangerous....

    Thanks guys
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    #8
    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    ^ google is your friend...plenty of info out there.
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    #9
    Bluelighter ayjay's Avatar
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    I suggested canola oil because alprazolam (and diazepam for that matter) is a lipid - soluble in oils but not water. Propylene glycol is used to make injectable preparations of benzos. Seeing as you are not planning to inject, it seems an unnecessary expense...
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by coughcough View Post
    I make complete acknowledgement to my ignorance regarding the differences between aprazolam and diazepam. Consider this thread just about Alprazolam. Sorry for confusion.

    The twenty drops of a substance with similar viscosity to water is really considered standard. Standard to the point in which it is used in hospitals to such a degree with certain drugs. Although no sources, just what I read today in my many hours of getting deep into the internet.

    The actual amount of ML dispersed isn't such a concern. I couldn't care less if it was a hundred drops to a ML, in that instance I'd just encourage my friend to make his solution stronger to correlate to 1 drop, 0.25mg of Alprazolam. Unless there is factors of solubility, eg theres no way you can fit 0.25MG of Alp into 1/20th of a ML or whatever. Basically, consistency in strength of a drop is soon realised after some use and if 1 drop is only ~0.25mg then there isn't so much of a concern if it is 0.18mg in a tiny drop or 0.32mg in a fat one. Ya get me?

    Yes I completely agree about the syringe and solution but these are implements I'd much rather not have in the house and I feel uncomfortable even mentioning the word syringe around my friend as some years ago he had troubles with IV meth. A phase in which he has passed.
    I understand your points of using a dropper bottle over a syringe, but surely you'd be able to hide it somewhere and keep it out of sight? You'll need to keep the benzo solution hidden and locked away if possible anyway, that kind of thing is pretty dangerous just sitting around - make sure you label it well. I once got some Clonazepam in a liquid dropper bottle (rivatril or something) but this bottle was calibrated and tested to the extreme of being reliable....most dropper bottles are not - even if they say they are, you can't trust the seller.

    It's really important to do accurate dosing with benzos since they can kill you when taken with other stuff. LSD on the otherhand, having a dropper bottle with unknown exact dose isn't such a big problem.

    IF his tolerance grows he'll be taking more drops, and the chance for a non-standed drop/s increases. We've all made it pretty clear that using drops isn't the way to go it's up to you...but we're not just saying it for no reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by coughcough View Post
    Just saw your response Christ!, bloody legend really appreciate your down to earth posts. We've chatted on other forums in the past.
    No worries

    I completely understand accuracy being an issue with eyedropper but would you not think that considering what I'm aiming to knock up for him be dosed at 0.25MG a drop so therefore if he got a whopper one for instance it wouldn't be so bad, or even if he got two drops on the most 'fat' side of things. Fair enough if it were 1MG drops I was aiming for or something with a bit more force.

    I'm almost certainly going to be the one who would dose my mate as it is the kind of arrangement we have especially with his history and I am very careful with everything, always weighed on MG scale etc (cept weed :P ) So in this instance, although may need to be considered for other users there is a difference between drop and squeezing out everything in the pipette!

    I do encourage all to do a bit of reading on the size of a drop. For something named a 'drop' its remarkable how unanimous it is that 1ML = 20 drops in your standard dropper.
    I've done LOTS of mixing with 'drops' in the past and different droppers give you different amounts with the same number of drops (even if it's with the same water)

    For harm reduction sake it's just important to be as sure as you can be with dosing. It's not always possible, but in this case you can be very accurate.

    Off the top of my head - you don't see this friend for a while, he drops the bottle and it has a crack in it....he goes out and buys a replacement dropper bottle and uses that instead. He might be using 2mg at a time at this point, he might also be comfortable with drinking at the same time and knows 8 drops + 4 beers will be fine - in that case not using a syringe could be pretty dangerous. You could say you'd never let him do such a thing, but friends fall out when there's drugs involved sometimes...and if it's technically his alprazolam, he'd probably strongly recommend giving it back to him.

    You could also maybe use a syringe to measure out doses and put them on something...I'm thinking sugar cube but there's probably better things you can use.
    Last edited by Christ!; 29-05-2012 at 04:49.
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ayjay View Post
    I suggested canola oil because alprazolam (and diazepam for that matter) is a lipid - soluble in oils but not water. Propylene glycol is used to make injectable preparations of benzos. Seeing as you are not planning to inject, it seems an unnecessary expense...
    Makes perfect sense to me, but I've never heard of anyone using canola oil. The closest thing I've read about is someone using peppermint oil. My knowledge of chemistry isn't that great, so I'd either ask someone who knows for sure or stick to what I know would work. It does seem like it should work fine, but maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't want to waste any precious powder just incase, although I guess you could just do a tiny test batch

    PG doesn't cost much at all, and I remember reading it's got anti-bacterial properties which is always handy.
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    #12
    Bluelighter ayjay's Avatar
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    ^fair enough. To the OP - I really can't stress how imprecise counting drops is. You could calibrate your dropper to check I suppose. Don't forget that as you will be using a non-polar solvent, it won't behave like water, so the "20 drop" thing is almost certainly going to be wrong. If you don't want needles lying around then yes an oral medication syringe. If you are lucky you could find a 1ml tuberculin syringe (no needle - just a Luer slip fitting) - then you get the accuracy of a small syringe with no needle to trigger you...
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    #13
    A big thanks for all the great no nonsense responses. Droppers are a no go. I may make up a tiny dropper thing for myself (come on, half xannie drop under the tongue before bed would be bliss ) but in terms of safety not only to my friends but as Christ! pointed out I'm not considering extraneous parties who may or may not have access to it over time. One would hope 500mg of alprazolam would last a little longer than a few days

    I think I will go the glycerol route. I'm unfamiliar with the substance (glycerol) but would it be possible to make up a solution of 1mg/1ml and drop it on a fruit tingle as opposed to a sugar much like is done with acid? My thoughts are, make solution > use dropper to measure each dose > drop onto suitable edible/thing for consumption and storage. Thoughts on dropping onto a fruit tingle? Easier to just bite half and I also like the idea of the indentation to leave the solution soak in.

    I'm thinking about putting 500mg into 500ml of Glycerol and then measuring each 1ml/1mg dose out of that. Any obvious or not so obvious things im overseeing?

    I understand that my knowledge of all this is basic and I am reading up most I can (got so many tabs open I can't see the title of the page) to get through but did anyone have thoughts or suggestions?

    The Tabs thing is still not out of the question as a little novelty project down the track. It would also make shipping such an item a breeze although I couldn't care less in that department. Our group has been lucky enough to stumble upon this cheap potent stuff, its staying within our group

    Again, much thanks and appreciation!
    Last edited by coughcough; 29-05-2012 at 11:55. Reason: Fruit tingle mention
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    #14
    For making up a solution that you intend to keep as that, a solution, the Propylene Glycol is what you want. This is the best choice because Alprazolam has a relatively high solubility in it. Even in this though you will have trouble getting a concentration of greater than 5mg/ml. Propylene Glycol is also pretty micro-biologically stable meaning that no nasties should grow in it.

    The problem with a PG solution for what it sounds like you really want to do, i.e; make solution of know concentration and then "dose" cubes, lifesavers, tabs, whatever is it will not evaporate. For that you would want something else. Isopropyl Alcohol will evaporate well but I am not too sure how concentrated you will be able to get the solution. It should work though.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ayjay View Post
    If you are lucky you could find a 1ml tuberculin syringe (no needle - just a Luer slip fitting) - then you get the accuracy of a small syringe with no needle to trigger you...
    Totally missed the fact that OP might be trying to stay away from syringes, and the sight of one setting off temptations.


    Alprazolam:
    Practically insoluble in water; sparingly soluble in alcohol and in acetone; freely soluble in chloroform and dichloromethane.
    Seems like different benzos are quite a bit different in what they can dissolve into also...I'll let someone better at chemistry help you out with the glycerine because I have no idea

    You probably already know to do this but - Make sure you keep any powders that are active in tiny amounts away from any other powders you might have around the place. Pretty easy to mistake one for the other when you're under the influence
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    #16
    Yeah what Christ! said, definitely isolate any high potency powders you have from others.

    Ages ago.... well, lets just say 70mg of JWH-250 was smoked in a single dose. Worst....Hour...Ever.
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    #17
    Ex-Bluelighter
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    If you want more contributions why not create a thread in/ask a mod to move this to Advanced Drug Discussion?
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    #18
    Bluelighter ayjay's Avatar
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    Hey christ! I didn't miss the point around triggers - just picking up on spacejunk's reference to oral syringe not being a trigger for him/her, and reflecting that a tuberculin syringe may well be smaller, and hence better for measuring small quantities. Also - no matter how hard you fiend, you can't IV with a syringe with no needle
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    #19
    Go get a 1cc insulin syringe and just remove the tip with a pair of pliers if you must (I would, screw having sharps around!)
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    #20
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    OP, ffs, don't spike food with benzos. What if a kid (or anyone) ate it.
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    #21
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    practically everyone skips past the question. ultimately stating what a bad idea is. gife it a reat
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    #22
    Probably a bit late to respond but my advice would be to get 10mg of said powder and add 90mg of any cut you wish (gluc ect) then use mg scales with fresh batterys and dose according. Aka take 20mg for a 2mg dose. The added cut decreases the chance of 'hot' and 'cold' spots from using it straight (hot meaning 99.99% alpraz and cold say 70% alpraz)

    Be carful with claimed pure benzo powders. Without going into sources i have a feeling i know where many may get these from and i know from testing than A LOT of 'venders' powders are not as pure as stated.
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    #23
    Whilst oral syringes are super easy to get at the pharmacy (last time I got one they gave it to me for free), you could just buy a bottle of kids Panadol liquid. These come with mini oral syringes for measuring 1, 2 or 3 ml - and their whole purpose is for dosing medicine. This way you don't even need to ask for an oral syringe.
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