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Thread: Quitting/Tapering Thread.

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    #76
    Bluelighter cassandragemini's Avatar
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    good stuff thorn, quitting opiates is fucking tough, kudos to you man. i didnt realise how hard it is getting off but more importantly staying off before i got addicted, if i had i might have thought a bit harder about what i was doing. one thing to keep in mind is withdrawal is only the first part of getting clean, life without opiates comes next and its much more difficult than you might expect. boredom, stress, anxiety and even being positive and happy can be excuses or triggers to use again. ive gone through crippling heroin withdrawal only to relapse into full-time use a week or two later knowing all my hard work was for pretty much nothing, the urge to use again can be unbelievably powerful and once you have used and are under the blanket its so easy to blank the consequences and get yourself in over your head again. its amazing what bullshit you can come up with to justify using ' just this one time' or 'just once more'. also the time it takes to become physically dependent on opiates seems to lessen with each relapse, its like the kindling phenomenon alcoholics and benzo addicts suffer when they repeatedly relapse. i used to be able to use several times for up to 3 consecutive days after the first time i cleaned up without anything more than a slight sniffle - the last time i relapsed i used 3 times in 2 days and found myself in pretty bad withdrawals, that was 2 years ago and ive been using daily since.

    goodluck man and like footscrazy and brenno said if you do relapse dont forget to cwe!
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    #77
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    Cheers cassandragemini.... I know there is still a hard road to go down but... Just so everyone knows, this is not my first drug addiction.... I smoked weed for about 10 years straight (I know weed is nothing compared to other drugs), spent a full year smoking crystal almost every day and obviously my last 3 years of codeine. So I have an idea of how my mind will react but at the same I know it can be different every time. I am somewhat of a musician and am very keen to put all my energy back into that to try and keep myself focused.

    88.....I wish I could say the physical w/d are nothing but for me they hit pretty hard. Going in to day 7 tomorrow and can slowly feel my strength coming back. Took the dogs for a walk tonight (American Staffy & Bull-Boxer so not the smallest and easiest of dogs to walk) and found out I was able to at least start some exercise routines.... Might actually get some sleep tonight.....Nah... Who am I kidding?..lol

    Once again... I really do appreciate everyone's comments... So thank you.

    /\
    /\
    /\

    Just a quick add on.. It's now 5:30am Friday and I am at day 7 of my detox... I still can't sleep for more than a few hours and my heart feels like it wants to burst out of my chest but other than that I feel OK.

    .
    Last edited by thorn_1983; 13-09-2012 at 22:30. Reason: update
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    #78
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    get your heart rate/BP checked out by a doctor. you may find respite in using a beta-blocker (atenolol for instance) short term while your body is readjusting back to ground zero; something to help ease the high blood pressure.

    i've got Hhigh BP and even taking my prescribed atenolol dose throughout wd's is barely enough to keep things in check - sometimes having to up my dose.

    you're doing great so far by the sounds of it.
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    #79
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    Regarding Valium WD's to the OP most def my valium WD's really kicked in arround day 14 - 16 haard Xanax was worse but over sooner far less protracted WD's than Diaz
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    #80
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    Has anyone used melatonin in their recovery?
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    #81
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    No but I imagine it is better than what I am using, i have not had codeine for 3 days and using bennys and alcohol to help me sleep but I blame that on the dexies, not the healthiest option by any stretch, when you have to use another drug(s) to counteract the effects of the first drug, that's when you know you have a problem, knowing I can reduce my amp dosage but love the feeling too much. On the flip side I am getting to sleep earlier and waking up earlier so I would say its a start.

    Melatonin is natural so that would be the first thing you should try along with exercise ect, to help make you tired/exhausted, you should also set a lights out time.
    Last edited by 88brenno; 14-09-2012 at 08:04.
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    #82
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    Day 8.. Saturday 7:00am.. By far my best night sleep last night. I managed to get a good 5 hours I would think. The restlessness is still slightly there but I am able to keep my legs still for longer than a few minutes at a time.

    I did a run on the treadmill and did some weights yesterday afternoon so I think that might have helped so I will go for another run today to try and start some routines to keep my mind occupied. I can feel the mental withdrawals kicking in so I think it's going to be very important that I keep myself busy and occupied as much as I can.
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    #83
    Bluelight Crew footscrazy's Avatar
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    ^ Great work so far thorn! 8 days is a massive effort, well done

    I'd definitely keep up the exercise, it can be so beneficial. It's a mood lift, gives you energy and something to work towards and achieve. Plus, noticing your body changing for the better can really spur you on and keep you on the right track. I love running - my method for the best runner's high is to jog until I'm absolutely exhausted and right when I think I can't take another step, pretend the cops are behind me and bolt for about 20 steps - I feel so good and shakey and endorphiny after that.
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    #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by footscrazy View Post
    ^ Great work so far thorn! 8 days is a massive effort, well done

    I'd definitely keep up the exercise, it can be so beneficial. It's a mood lift, gives you energy and something to work towards and achieve. Plus, noticing your body changing for the better can really spur you on and keep you on the right track. I love running - my method for the best runner's high is to jog until I'm absolutely exhausted and right when I think I can't take another step, pretend the cops are behind me and bolt for about 20 steps - I feel so good and shakey and endorphiny after that.

    You should be a youth worker, so inspirational.
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    #85
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    Good luck to all of you who are trying to quit. it takes alot of strength and resolve but it is worth it in the end. particular respect to those trying to give up opiates or benzos. I can only speak about benzos, but the withdrawal symptoms from there are horrid.

    On the topic of physical dependence to benzos. I used to have a benzo dependence due to using about 40-60mg a day for six weeks. did a pretty rough taper but quitted.

    i recently got prescribed valium for sleep issues. I was given 50 x 5mg. i specifically told the doctor not to write me another script if I come back and ask for one. She thought that was a very good idea.

    I am taking about 20mg a night to sleep. I have taken it for 5 nights in a row, but took off last night and will take tonight and possibly tomorrow night off so as to reduce the chance of building back a dependence.

    i was wondering with this plan, will that help stave off physical addiction? Also, generally speaking, how long does it take physical dependence to develop? I think I will use them for the next week but after that stop and just use either trazadone or restavit if I need it. and just keep the valium around for emergencies or if I feel like chilling out a little.
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    #86
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    I woke up thisbmorning to a mini intervention where my dad came over and sat with me and my mom.. so looks like im kicking heroin again... sigh

    Hopefully i stay off it this time. But i did telk my mom to hold my paycheck forvme wen i get paid every friday which they didnt even mandate themselves it was my idea cuz its the only way ill be able to stop for now.. further down the line i know ill regain my self control but for now staying off heroin with $the in my pocket would be impossibm
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    #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by psytaco View Post
    Good luck to all of you who are trying to quit. it takes alot of strength and resolve but it is worth it in the end. particular respect to those trying to give up opiates or benzos. I can only speak about benzos, but the withdrawal symptoms from there are horrid.

    On the topic of physical dependence to benzos. I used to have a benzo dependence due to using about 40-60mg a day for six weeks. did a pretty rough taper but quitted.

    i recently got prescribed valium for sleep issues. I was given 50 x 5mg. i specifically told the doctor not to write me another script if I come back and ask for one. She thought that was a very good idea.

    I am taking about 20mg a night to sleep. I have taken it for 5 nights in a row, but took off last night and will take tonight and possibly tomorrow night off so as to reduce the chance of building back a dependence.

    i was wondering with this plan, will that help stave off physical addiction? Also, generally speaking, how long does it take physical dependence to develop? I think I will use them for the next week but after that stop and just use either trazadone or restavit if I need it. and just keep the valium around for emergencies or if I feel like chilling out a little.
    Good to hear you are trying to keep it all under control... As for your question I obviously can't give you a perfectly correct answer because everyone is different eg. tolerance levels, how quickly your body metabolizes it etc. I can say that leaving 24 hours will definitely cut down the physical dependence in the beginning but if you choose to take them for a greater period of time the physical dependence will kick in but it can be different for everyone. Some may take them for 2 weeks and have difficult withdrawals and some may take them for 2 months and have just a few symptoms. I know the withdrawals can vary for benzos as well. I have seen people start to get them within 48 hours and some it took 2 weeks for the w/d to really take effect.

    My only advise would be listen to your body, it will tell you when it thinks its had enough... I unfortunately didn't and ignored it many times when I should have quite the opiods and 3 years later I had a BIG problem I had to face.
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    #88
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    Day 11 and still not using.... I am virtually withdrawal free now except my RLS still seems to kick in at night, but when I wake up it's gone. I actually got 6 hours sleep last night which is the most I have had since I stopped using. I went to my first NA meeting last night and it was like being baptised (even though I am not religious...lol) I met some amazing people.... People who have been in recovery for over 30 years and some like me who are only days/weeks in to the program, but all of them really good people with some with amazing stories. I really had no idea what to expect and although it was a little overwhelming when I spoke about my story not one single person would judge me and would only offer to help wherever they can.

    To finish off... I would like to thank (once again) everyone in this forum who gave me what ever advise they could. I have taken that advice, implemented it and can start to feel a whole new world opening up for me.

    Peace
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    #89
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    Well I've had enough of illicit substances and I'm taking a break for a very long time! Have not been over using any 1 substance so no withdrawls for me. What I have experienced is a profound black depression that comes on in a matter of minutes to hours and leaves you exhausted, emotional and feeling so fucking sad you'd do almost anything to feel human again. 24 hours later and still don't feel great, feel better than I have though. Also have been sick with whooping cough and then the flu so that has knocked me as well. All in all I think a reduction in drug consumption over a period of weeks and not overdoing any one type of drug (ie serotonin releasing drugs about 1 every 2 weeks max) in this period makes a smoother transition.
    Get sleep it's a fucking cure all no doubt about it, if you need a few jellies keep to roughly prescribed doses eg. Diazepam 5-10mgs per night for sleep and say 5mgs twice a day for 1 week then step down to 1 x 5mg a day for a week then 2.5mg every 2nd day then stop or only use when absolutly necessary as a 1 off dose no more than 1-2 times per week. Antidepressant medications can be great short term but can cause some very uncomfortable side effects and can end up creating a new addiction to perscription medications with long term use.
    Restless leg syndrome is fucked to experience and can cause you to look like your trying to be the next "so you think you can dance" but the epileptic version. Seizures mean you may have some form of epilepsy or reduced seizure threshold. This can be a medical emergency so check it up with your local GP. The last thing anyone wants is early onset MS through drug misuse/abuse or worse parkinsonism.
    Most important get good food and drink heaps of H20. If your really bad get a Full blood count from your GP and they will be able to identify areas of your diet you may need supplemented. An example would be if you liked to drink Etoh and ended up with low levels of vitamin B etc. Take each day as it comes and remember some drugs your GP will give you can also cause dependence/withdrawl know what your taking, what the adverse effects (side effects) are, any contrindications ie dodgy heart, taking a medication that this other medication may interact with ie causeing lower rate of drug metabolism resulting in over sedation etc.
    It's working for me over 2 weeks no illicit substances have been consumed. Apart from the occasional 24 hour dark day and some ongoing respiratory issues am well and truly sorted. Find a hobby or sport to take up some free time so you don't start thinking about drugs. Exercise is helping especially my skateboard! I think the cardio/respiratory workout is what helps the most. All the best with anyone attempting this and make sure you have some friends or family who are aware of what your doing to check up on you and to be there when you need someone... believe me you will!!
    BTW psytaco 20mg a day is not going to help unless you titrate to say 15mg for 2-3 nights then 10mg 2-7 nights then then 5mg for a week followed by 2.5mg every second day if possible then cease. 20mg is a bit high as when you drop to say 10mgs you will have issues and 4x5 = 20 tablets in 5 days nearly 1/2 of the 50 you were prescribed. I'd drop to 15mg immediately then 2-3 days later drop to 10mgs. Remember diaz will be in your system for around 30 hours so even though you drop to 15mg some of the 20mg from last night will still be kicking. Bennies are fairly easy to get off following the step down technique, unless you have been smashing them or on em for a while then you will have a hell of a time. Good luck to all coming off is a nightmare...
    Last edited by lovepsychadelics; 18-09-2012 at 06:07. Reason: Spelling nazi
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    #90
    Bluelighter cassandragemini's Avatar
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    Psytaco I found the withdrawal effects happened much sooner and much more viciously the second an third time I relapsed on Valium. The third time I took about 80mg over 4 days and about 24-36 hours after my last dose I was in sever withdrawal, the acute phase only lasted a week or so but it was nasty. Opiate withdrawals fucking blow but honestly for me benzo withdrawal is worse, the sickly headaches, anxiety and horrible dry and aching eyes are unbearable, I have sworn never to get myself in that situation again. Your experience may be completely different to mine but Id hate for you to end up where I was, if you can at all maybe try to mix it up a bit with the other sleep aids you have and keep in mind valiums long half-life when dosing.

    Today I had 3 horrible panic attacks at work, the mess I've managed to get myself in again with heroin is really taking its toll on me physically and mentally, honestly looking at myself in the mirror it looks as though I've aged 5 years in the 3 or 4 weeks I've been using IV, I have horrible bags under my eyes, my skin is sallow and dry and my eyes look yellowed and empty. I have Gilbert's syndrome (a common blood disorder) which gives me a jaundiced look when I'm unhealthy and I've never really noticed it until now, honestly it's scary how much my physical appearance has changed. Mentally I'm on the brink of having a meltdown, the guilt from hiding my use from my friends and girlfriend, the financial strain of debt and spending every spare cent I earn on the stuff, the neurotic fantasising and internal battles and debates on whether or not to use are exhausting and the shame and self loathing and self inflicted depression is fucking horrible and I can't handle it anymore. Tomorrow I am getting off this shit, I flushed my last shot down the toilet, threw out my rigs and I've started writing a letter to my girlfriend explaining what I've done. I have a feeling this will be the straw that broke the camels back and Id say she'll probably leave me and she probably should. Starting tomorrow in going to take 100gms of poppy seeds twice a day until Im steady on that then I'm going to drop to 200mg of codeine once a day in the evenings for a few days, then 100mg daily then off. I plan to be off all opiates by this time next fortnight and hopefully I'll be back to 75% in three weeks time. I'm going to be off bluelight until I'm clean, as much as I love this site it can be a massive trigger for using and I find when I'm hanging out I vicariously try to get my drug fix by reading other people experiences and I need some serious time away from drugs. Thank you to everybody who has helped inspire me to do this and thank you everybody for your wise words and advice.

    May the force be with all of us.
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    #91
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    Hello to everyone. It's been a while since I posted but I had my reasons. I originally just wanted to document the first week of my cold turkey experience after 3 straight years of abusing opiates. But now.... Today, I have reached week 4 of being clean. And as much as I wish it didn't take this long I am finally starting to feel the old me coming back. My sleep has improved a lot over the last week and although in the evenings when I am trying to relax I still get a little restless it's nothing compared to those first 2 weeks.

    I have been attending NA twice a week and it is the best decision I could have made. I look forward to going, I look forward sharing and look forward to listening to everyone else. It's such a powerful weapon against using and I see myself being there for many many years.

    I have started lifting weights again and although my body hurts the day after, it's a good pain. It's a pain that you can enjoy because I can feel my body repair and get a little stronger each day. My work has improved 100% as well. For the first time in who knows how long, my boss is actually thanking me for putting in that extra work to help get things done around the place.

    Now.... By no means am I boasting or gloating but these changes I am seeing in me are things that I never thought of whilst I was using. It's still a tough road to walk with many ups and downs and sure.... There are still moments (quite a lot) when all I want to do is switch off and use and I know this feeling will never actually leave me but with each day that comes and goes is another day where I can walk down that path a little further with my head a little higher and enjoy my life just that little bit more.

    If anyone is trying to quite opiates and struggling with it please PM me. I am by no means an expert in the field nor have I been clean for a long time but the most important thing I have learned this last month is finding those people who understand what you are going through, how you feel during these times and that most of all have the will to stop using. In the end we are all here for each other and any experience from one person can be used to help another.....

    Peace to you all.
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    #92
    My doc has now got me on 1x1mg Xanax a day down from 4 a day 3 monthes ago, he probably sees it as progress but the truth is its much easier than he thinks.
    I will be pissed when hes cuts me off completly though.
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    #93
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    Thanks for updating, thorn. It sounds like you're going really well. I love that feeling of 'good pain' from exercising and the accompanying energy and mood lift. It's a high in itself when you make a re-entry into life after a period of opiate use. The muscles waking up, the brain fog clearing, sex drive returning, being able to shit like a normal human being. All great things.

    Viva life! ( I don't even know what that means)
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    #94
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    i was wanting to titrate down from 100mg morphine b.d to around 60mg b.d a few months bak while it was still (old. my dr talked my out of it, wait until it warms up a bit, i agreed with no hesitation of (ourse and now he's pressing the issue ea(h visit - though respe(ts my (hoi(e not to at this point. i've a huge build up of fluid in my left wrist from an a((ident whi(h is likely going to require surgery (his words, i still havent had the (T s(an for proper diagnosis), whi(h promotes even more pain throughout my wrist and arm with a good dose of loss of feeling throughout the forearm (the arm i usually IV with).

    i'm going to have to bite the bullet as my habit is only getting more out of hand. seems this happens every fuking time i'll get there by de(ember - hopefully.

    best of lu(k and (ongrats on the progress thorn and (assandragemini
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    #95
    hi all,

    around two weeks ago (saturday) i had a strange moment of clarity. sure i was high on smack, having a great ole time and was buzzing like nothin else. The moment of clarity basically said I was ready. nothing more nothing else. we had been easing down at that point from 2 points a day to just a gram a weekend interposed with bupe to hold us when we were out. Its been a good 18 months of near constant heroin use. some fucking good nights. but when you head tells you its ready you jump at the chance.

    so having my last shot on the monday I think I started a course of blackmarket bupe. starting at 4mg every 15 hours. Since then I have gotten myself down to 1mg every 24 hours, in less then 9 days. I could never have done this with smack. Except for one or two moments I've not had a single desire to go back on the horse. Been busy diggin holes and working which helps. also some very good acid that i've picked courtesy of a new friend seems to be helping massively.

    So yeah, I'd suggest for those really struggling to cut the horse to consider bupe. Its great. to be honest i'm even getting high from it now. Its long half-life makes tapering significantly easier to bear and manage. I can't be fucked with the bullshit of a program but i'm lucky because i've got reliable supply of bupe. but for those with no choice i'd still strongly recommend a bupe program.

    Please remember though that opiate addiction is not a sign of "weakness" its a biological immune response. It doesn't have anything to do with the reward centres in your brain. You are not weak simply because your addicted to heroin. It has nothing to do whatsever with your psychological state (in except for the original trauma)......this was only recently discovered during the animal trials of a drug called Ibudilast where they found this drug, a gial modulator and anti-inflammatory and basically stops the production of cytokines and chemokines thus preventing the reinstatement of the shit that makes you go through withdrawals. The primary effect is a significant reduction in withdrawals and tolerance whilst simultaneously increasing the analgesic affect of opiates!! now the fuckers want to package it with naloxone but that said imagine being able to use opiates and simply not going into withdrawals afterwards!

    this simply proves the fact that withdrawals are a biological "fault" if you will and has nothing to do with the psychological make up of the individual.

    Glia, including microglia and astrocytes, are the most abundant cell type in the brain and the primary immunocompetent cells of the CNS. Notably, glial cells are activated by drugs of abuse, and their activation and subsequent release of cytokines
    and chemokines can impact the physiological and addictive properties of drugs of abuse, including morphine. Morphineinduced proinflammatory glial activation alters neuronal excitability and synaptic connectivity, opposes morphine-induced
    analgesia, and increases tolerance, respiratory depression, withdrawal, and reward to morphine (Bland et al., 2010; Hutchinson et al., 2008a, 2009; Narita et al., 200.

    Given these collective findings, the hypotheses that guided the research presented are as follows: (1) drugs of abuse activate glia, thus increasing the likelihood of abuse, and (2) attenuating/preventing morphine-induced glial activation via early-life handling should therefore reduce abuse liability later in life. We present the following evidence in support of these hypotheses: (1) morphine activates glia within the nucleus accumbens (NAcc), inducing a rapid increase in cytokines and chemokines; (2) neonatal handling increases expression of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10, attenuates morphine-induced glial activation within the NAcc, and protects these rats from drug-induced reinstatement of morphine CPP; and (3) treatment of adult rats with a glial modulator, ibudilast, mimics neonatal handling by increasing IL-10 expression, blocking glial activation within the NAcc, and preventing reinstatement of CPP. Neonatal handling increases IL-10 expression postnatally, and this is maintained into adulthood via decreased methylation of the IL-10 gene specifically within microglia of the NAcc. Thus, these experiments have identified a gene  early-life environment interaction on glial function within the NAcc, which predicts risk versus resilience for
    relapse liability in a model of addiction.
    to read more.....

    and also the trials
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    #96
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    Rapid tapers with bupe have saved me a number of times.
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    #97
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    Well done Chugs. Hope it continues to go well for you.

    The money I have been spending on meth lately is rediculous. I have just returned to work last week after a few months off and using heaps. Told myself thats it, gotta be a better parent, partner and employee. So 2nd week back I got on it last night so fried all day and my dealer mentioned he had more of the same so scraped every sent I had and got 1.5gms today. Insane.

    Im sorting the balance tomorrow, and then I seriously need to cut up my ATM card and get my boyfriend to give me limited cash for a while. I have given my boyfriend my card a few times now. But I need him to actually keep it from me.

    I dont crave it when not using, but if I have cash and get that 'You want' text Im so weak. I score because I can.

    I really dont want to have any before work tomorrow, but I think Im kidding myself. To have, but not use... Could be this weeks test.

    Enjoying a pipe in the bath now.. If my next was Fri night, thats a good start.
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    #98
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    ^ Hope you achieve your goals popeyes mate

    It's good you don't crave it when you're not using, that's on your side. It took years of me using until I really properly started getting cravings, once it starts happening I doubt there's any going back to a crave free life though.

    I find meth is one where you have to have an absolute, no I'm not using mindset, otherwise it's so manipulative, and justifying use is so easy. If you're 99% sure you need a break, the ice-head part of your mind will focus on the 1% until it seems stupid not to use.

    All the best

    How are you and the bupe taper going Chugs?
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    #99
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    Wow seems like a lot of people have chosen to give up. Are u guys planning to give up forever or just for a while? I have tried a few times to quit mainly with dosage tapering and then cold turkey (tolerance isnt overly high and no where close to a hardcore user). My problem is I always relapse and finding an excuse to justify my use. For example a lil while back I was off it and then came down with a horrible flu, I was in so much pain, my throat was aching so badly so thought Ill grab a lil bit to ease the pain and give me relief for a few hours and also to help me sleep.

    Gonna give it another go soon when I feel the time has come and had enough, I think the most important thing is that u really want to stop using deep down inside ur heart otherwise its just a constant ongoing battle. To help me get through the initial stages I always try to form a habit of not using and doing something else instead. Its important to getting used to having a sober night which IMO is the hardest part for me personally. Instead of getting high and watching tv ill just go to the gym and read a book for example.

    Once u start getting used to being sober on ur "high days" it gets easier. Its not just the drugs thats causing the addiction its the actual act and circumstances/ surroundings and pretty much anything that reminds u of doing it. Try to make a list of what do do instead and keep busy.
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    Bluelighter popeyes mate's Avatar
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    Thanks Footscrazy appreciate the encouragement. Actually you have certainly helped me just to even think it can be done. You did it. Others have done it, and compared to opiates I know this is easier, but still hard all the same. Hell Ive been singing the same tune for too long. My dealer must just think yeah.. Whatever.. Heard it before.

    Used all week so failed first test. I have a bit here so it was really a given.

    My boyfriend just HAS to take my card and control the $$ for a while. I control the finances at the moment.. Pay the bills and smoke the leftover. Him giving me limited cash each week is what I need.

    He will soon realise just how much I spend when all of a sudden there is a surplus haha!!
    Last edited by popeyes mate; 17-10-2012 at 16:21.
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