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Thread: Quitting/Tapering Thread.

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    This is really good to know! I had no idea that it was possible to have withdrawl from clonazepam or xanax.... So how long do you have to take it to be addicted?
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    Bluelighter
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    gizmo22 what you are suggesting is theoretically possible, I even considered it myself however I never went through with it so I couldn't comment first hand.

    Here is what I can tell you for sure.
    After being on suboxone for 18 months it will be very difficult to come of without any withdrawl symptoms.

    The dose that you are on will have a big impact on how long it takes to leave your system, as a general rule however you are looking at longer than 7 days of physical symptoms, it is hard to say how long you would need to stay on the short acting opioid but I would think more like 3 weeks but even that is really just an estimate, as I mentioned the dose you jump from is the biggest factor in relation to the duration of physical symptoms.

    It would be helpful to know exactly how much time you had to do this.

    Have you considered a fast taper down to the lowest dose possible in your time frame and jumping from there with the assistance of meds such as clonidine and diazepam, if you are mentally strong and motivated to do this I think that is the way I would go about it.

    I completely understand the theory of swapping back to a short acting opioid until the buprenorphine is out of your system and then using the sub for 5 days like you did previously, in my opinion that is definitely the least painfull way to come of opioids and the long drawn out withdrawl from suboxone is not an attractive option to say the least.

    In the end the reason I never went through with it was the uncertainty regarding exactly how long I would have to stay on the short acting opioid and the fact that I simply would not be able to afford to do it.



    Regarding your question about clonazepam and Xanax/alprazolam everybody is different, for me if I use benzodiazepines for more than a couple of days in a row I always titrate the dose over a couple of days when stopping if I don't do this I tend to get some rebound anxiety.

    If you have access to these meds the clonazepam could be very helpful in coming of the suboxone, I would favour the clonazepam over the Xanax as the Xanax has quite a short half life.

    Definitely be aware however that benzodiazepines can be extremely addictive and in fact cold turkey withdrawl can be very dangerous.
    Usually if you only used them for a week to get through opioid withdrawl you would be fine but I would always exercise extreme caution with benzos.
    Sorry for the lateness of this reply considering you are short on time I hope this is of some help to you.
    Last edited by vision conquest; 12-05-2017 at 04:07. Reason: additional thought
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    I had no idea that it was possible to have withdrawl from clonazepam or xanax
    I feel like benzodiazepine withdrawal is still a relatively unknown quantity compared to other substances. I guess lots of people think of heroin withdrawal as the 'gold standard' of hellish withdrawal experiences, but in my own experience benzo withdrawal is the worst of the whole bunch. Phenazepam and clonazepam caused more extreme symptoms than any of my WDs with heroin, opium, and even fentanyl and a bunch of other opioids (opiates/opioids are my DOC). Fentanyl took the death cake for acute pain but I feel like anything is manageable if it's short lived. Benzo WDs (especially long acting ones which have anti-convulsant properties) are hell and they go on and on and on.
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    Hi, I recently got off codeine for 5 weeks., I took approximately 200 last night, and I have woken up with major hip pain and neck pain! Am I now detoxing again in just one night ? If anyone has any advice that would be great, I don't want to go back to rehab! Is buprenorphine a good idea? Thanks in advance, me.
    Last edited by Kaftanswirl; 18-05-2017 at 00:20. Reason: Extra info
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    I really doubt a single dose of codeine would send you back in w/d after 5 weeks. Might cause the PAWS to flare up a bit. Or the pain could be unrelated to the codeine - maybe you just rolled over the wrong way while sleeping?

    I'd just ride it out for 24 hours, take some panadol and ibuprofen. See how you feel then.
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    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    ^ agreed. I think you should be fine
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    Is buprenorphine a good idea?
    Oh hell no. Fuck that. Here's something nobody wants to hear: it only gets worse and worse. And by "it" I mean opiate dependence. Codeine is the entry point. I'm not saying that it's not nothing to get off. I started there, too. But it's only the taste. Heroin, fentanyl, and methadone will make you wish you hadn't started at all. Quit while you're ahead. Or... don't.

    I didn't. I couldn't live without opiates. I will never be able to live without them. Do you want to join the club?
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    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    Aw man. I hope you're ok halif.

    It's a long horrible fucking road, isn't it? I do wish i'd never tried opiates. I wish i'd never learned to enjoy them.
    I feel like addiction has changed me in some permanent - or at least some very deep - way.
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    Hey guys..

    I need a bit of advice. I haven't touched codeine for a good few years, but I had a car accident a few months ago and was given Forte. I got straight back into it, stopped for a week, then back again and now taking around 1200 MG a day already. It's been a month.

    I want to get the fuck off it, as per usual stressing about wd. It's been a month, I'm just being a pussy aren't I?

    I need to post here to make it a commitment otherwise it won't happen. So my idea is to just start tapering from tomorrow and check in every day. I'd really appreciate any feedback.

    Any tips, suggestions, call me a pussy for even stressing about it if that's what the honest answer is I don't care.

    Codeine, Imo is the stupidest drug. The feeling is a kinda nice buzz that lasts a short time. Addictive and then bullshit wd. What bullshit.
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    hey only


    No, you're not being a pussy for stressing about it. Opiate WDs are unpleasant at any level. Thing is: They get worse. So much worse. The more you use, the longer you use, the stronger the opiate you use - it gets worse than you thought possible.


    The point of bringing that up is not to be a downer. Quite the opposite. As shitty as it sounds, that fact is the best motivator that I can think of. Having gone on and off opiates a few times over the years, and also going through many periods of intense withdrawal, this is the only thing I can say with absolute certainty: Opiate withdrawal sucks and NOTHING will make it easy.



    I'm sure there are some people who have used a formula to mask WDs and will claim there's a way to do it pain free (usually some combo of marijuana, benzos, and all manner of supplements), but in my opinion trying to lessen the pain by taking more stuff is a dangerous path to go down for many reasons. If cold turkey is not possible or sensible, the only thing that works is a taper. The speed of taper depends on what works for you.


    You're in a good position in a sense. You know that the positives of using codeine habitually are vastly outweighed by the negatives, so you know that there is really nowhere to go but round and round (and downwards) chasing a fleeting sense of wellbeing which is not sustainable. You have that knowledge and that's what you need to make the leap.


    All the best
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    thanks heaps Halif,

    Ok well I managed to quit. I had a small dose of about 200mg on sat morning and that was the last dose. I was getting up to around 1500 mg a day.

    So today is day 6. I was just exhausted the first few days and slept heaps; which was weird but good. Restless legs only started on day 5 weirdly. Now even today, i feel like I'm severely hungover. Can't concentrate, no energy. Is this paws or still the wd? I'm happy I quit but wasn't expecting this
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    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    sounds like it's still a bit of residual WD to me.

    well done mate, you've done well. it's never easy...
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    Day 8 today,
    Anyone have any ideas for the energy issues?

    Obviously it's the dopamine shortages. Work is hard. I am pushing through but thinking and staying motivated is tough. So hard to concentrate, move around.

    I went to the gym today, been eating ok. I have been drinking every night, not getting smashed but 6-8 beers. I guess that's not helping.

    L-tyrosine ? Anything I can ask doctor for to help with dopamine depletion?

    Sanx guys
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    Work is hard. I am pushing through but thinking and staying motivated is tough. So hard to concentrate, move around.
    That all sounds about right. Not fun, but not abnormal.

    I went to the gym today, been eating ok.
    Keep doing that. Those two things will make more difference than anything you take to try and correct imbalances in the body.

    I have been drinking every night, not getting smashed but 6-8 beers. I guess that's not helping
    I fully understand why you're doing it, but try to drink as little as possible if you need to drink at all. You are still in a weakened state and any additional stress you place on your body will hit harder than if you were in normal health.

    You're doing the right things and are likely very close to regaining energy and normal cognitive ability.
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    Thanks Halif,

    Just one littl addition. Tonight, day 8 is the worst Rls I've had. Can't sleep. I'm so angry. Have been punching my legs. What the fuck is going on? All this bullshit for a couple of months on Codeine? Fuck this shit. I doubt I'll be at work tomorrow. I can't afford to put up with this shit anymore, need help
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    Little update

    I had some serequil to sleep. Just a sleeping dose. Woke up 4 hours later really messed up, couldnt form sentences and weird shit was happening in my brain. Had to call in sick .

    Then I had some modifinil today and that has made me feel fairly high, which it doesn't do normally. Weird. But I cleaned my car, room, helped a friend with some work, all stuff I haven't been motivated to do for a long time.

    So I don't know if I will sleep tonight but I'll be going to work tomorrow regardless.

    Day 9 almost done
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    I remember my first ever opiate withdrawals when I was 13. I had been on codeine for around 3 months, large doses because I had broken my leg. Towards the end when i'm walking I without any thought stop taking my meds.

    I remember walking out of a medical clinic after having my leg checked out, where i started shaking, getting cold sweats and the rest, turning to my father telling him that I didn't feel so well. I don't remember how i got through those withdrawals but a few months later I was shooting up smack at a house down the room so i guess um yeah hmmm.

    Codeine withdrawals aren't fun. Only, if you look back a few pages in this thread i've posted some suggestions to help with withdrawals.

    1. showers and baths are godsend. I flooded my bathroom once when the only way i could sleep was passing out in the shower.

    2. i find lots of physical activity, walking, and so on helps alot.

    3. distract yourself as much as possible. Lying staring at the ceiling does not help.

    4. The primary cause of "withdrawals" are a family of chemicals called proinflammatory cytokines that bind to mu, ku and gabba receptors all over our body (amongst others). Large doses of anti-inflammatories, and eating (which i know you don't want to do) will help a lot. See you need to metabolise these chemicals out of your body as quickly as possible. Eating, excerising etc will do this.

    lying around, not eating will make withdrawals worse and go longer.

    (and this is the primary cause of all withdrawals from all drugs i.e. alcholol, cocaine, speed, etc) just opiates are worse cause they directly activate the part of the body that makes these chemicals cytokines hence why opiate withdrawals are the worst)

    5. Lyrica helps some people as does Clonidine. I find Clonidine helps a lot.

    6. And you may not have realised this but you can ask your doctor for help. Tell them your in withdrawals and need some help.
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    Well I'm in trouble.

    I was in and off Lyrica for a few weeks. I found this much more addictive than anything I've ever tried.

    It had messed with my head, I ended up being back on codeine. Then on both codeine and Lyrica.

    Its become a bit of a joke really. I have in the past two days had some very strange depression and psychosis. Suicidal thoughts etc.

    Have to quit doing this, this week. Ill check in every day.

    Going to take a small dose of Lyrica and stop taking codeine. I have Immodium in case.

    Strangely, I don't feel the codeine at all when on the Lyrica.

    I'm not in a good place at the moment. I've also been taking modafinil daily.

    Lying in bed feeling crazy right now
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    I have in the past two days had some very strange depression and psychosis. Suicidal thoughts etc.
    If you can I strongly recommend that you go to a doctor and seek out some help with this situation you're in. It sounds like you're in a bit of a spot which is hard to get out of. Your last few posts have mentioned taking codeine, seroquel, modafinil, pregabalin (Lyrica), and alcohol. I don't think you are going to climb out of this hole you're in by using this and that to combat immediate discomfort.

    You've mentioned being in a bad head space and that means your ability to make careful decisions is reduced. Outsource this crisis. What could be worse than the place you're already in?

    Keep us updated and I wish you all the best.
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    Hi Halif,

    Yeah I know where you're coming from.
    I think the Lyrica really messed with my head.

    I've been going through a hard time. I've come out of a 7 year relationship, Im fairly over life. But I can't let such a stupid thing as a codeine slip up fuck things up even more.

    I'm going to start a 2-3 week taper. Starting tomorrow.

    I average around 600 MG codeine a day, but I think I will be able to start on a lower dose than that.

    I going to keep you guys posted.

    I actually went to hospital the other day, worried about my liver. Turns out I was ok but I was sectioned Because they thought I was trying to commit suicide (not at all, no talk of depression. Just the fact of fear of paracetamol poisoning)

    I was a eventually let out, but I was going through disgraceful wds. I was so angry but I just had to wait it out. Getting angry in that situation makes things worse.

    I made it 9 days about 6 weeks ago. I'll do it this time.

    I'm checking in every day
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    Hey guys

    So I'm checking in. Today Was not very good. I dosed a lot and I had the shitest day I've had in a long time.

    I've got an appointment with a good doctor on Wednesday. Tomorrow I am trying again.
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    OK.

    I dosed slightly less than yesterday.
    I'm in shit now, I have run out.
    Broke, all that.

    I have lope and Lyrica. See what tomorrow brings
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  23. Collapse Details
     
    Going to take my first crack at jumping off subs this weekend. Been putting this off for too long and I'm not stabilizing on these stupid low doses, so I don't see the point in trying to taper down past 0.5mg. Time to bite the bullet. Can't wait to get this shit out my system and out of my life - wish me luck!
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    wish me luck!
    All the luck to you!

    Sometimes being at the tail end of a taper can leave you in a no man's land where you just want to get on with the inevitable. You've done well to get down to 0.5mg and that seems like a reasonable place to jump from.

    I'm coming up on one year opiate free after a few years of daily use. I wish I could report that I feel amazing and everything is great but honestly it's been very hard and I don't feel like I'm over it yet. The addiction and dependence cut so deep into my being that it destroyed the old version of myself and I won't be whole until I've created something new to replace it.

    Having said that, it is a massive weight off to not be in constant stress and fear regarding getting the next dose or face the full force of withdrawals. Life becomes so very narrow when you're in that cycle and in fact it isn't really living. I can't say with confidence that I'll not use opiates again. All I can say is I never want to be dependent again.
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    Thanks man Sorry to hear it's been rough on you, but you've done pretty fucking awesome to go a year without after such a long period of daily use.

    If you don't mind expanding, where are you at these days? Do you still get PAWS style symptoms, or is it more dealing with the psychological side of life post-opiates? Part of what's doing my head in is trying to figure out what to expect - I know after all these years it's going to suck, but I'm not sure how much, or for how long. I read a lot of very varied accounts.

    I'm definitely not expecting it to be easy either, but right now it's exactly what you said, a no man's land. Not even proper maintenance anymore, since even with split dosing I wake up every morning with horrible leg cramps and some queasiness. No idea why, since suboxone is supposed to have a 37 half life or whatever, but it's just not holding anymore, and I don't see it improving if I try to taper down to 1/4 or 1/8 or whatever before dropping. If I'm dosing twice a day and still getting w/d's.... well at that stage, why bother? The next weeks/months are probably going to be awful, but I gotta do it if I want to move on with my life - and I do want to move on with my life. There's so much shit I want to start making progress on, so I gotta get this done. If it's gonna suck, better to just get it out of the way. The only way out is through...
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