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Thread: Help - advice regarding tapering off heroin

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    #26
    C_tripper, did you succeed?
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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polo79 View Post
    C_tripper, did you succeed?
    Tapering with H? Never.

    I kicked two weeks ago, cold turkey, while up in a place called Blackwater. Labouring, civil work, for my dad. It was the absolute worst :'( but now I'm clean, and gotta stay that way. I'm done with the gear, it'll kill me otherwise. It's already ruined so much, I have no self-control.
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    #28
    Bluelighter cassandragemini's Avatar
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    Ouch I feel you there c, that would have been a rough week. I did cold turkey twice labouring in the mines, never again. Kudos though man, you feeling sweet now?

    I too have never tapered on h, ive tried a couple of times but i ended up going crazy and wolfing down what I had as fast as possible so i didnt have time to think about the consequences and going through wd's until I could score again. Polo you could give codeine cwe's or poppy seed tea a go and see how it works for you, I'm still riding out bupe withdrawals and take 40-50 mg of codeine 3 times a day to help with the worst of the withdrawals. It allows me to get through work and sleep, it doesnt make it a walk in the park, the first few days will still suck but it helps me enough to make it worth it. Once i get over the worst of the wd's it's easy to taper off a low dose of codeine without any ill effects at all really. Could be worth a try, being addicted to h is a hell of a life, your circumstances seem to make it even tougher. Once you get a few days into it you'll be on your way man, you'll be sick but you won't have that awful 'delaying the enevitable' feeling you have now. After a week or so you'll be on the downhill slope.

    Also be careful with benzo's, I replaced my h habit with a benzo one and it totally sucked, coming off benzo's is as bad as opiates. If you want a crutch you can see a doctor and see if they'll prescribe atenolol or clonodine to help with the anxiety and if you can't sleep go to the pharmacy and get either some snuzaid (diphenhydramine) or restavit (doxylamine) to help you rest. Be careful with them though, they can cause more problems than they're worth. And there is no way I would consider using ice during withdrawals personally, my anxiety would be through the roof and the insomnia would drive me to the verge of sanity. Use the Internet and gather info on what you're about to go through, the little tricks can swing the odds of succeeding in your favour. Goodluck man, wd's suck but theyre probably not as bad as hep, abscesses or going to jail, it'll be over by the start of august if you stick to your guns.
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    #29
    I have seen the dr and they prescribed me valiums, so I have around 25 of Val's and two xannies a friend gave me. I get what your saying bout having ice when goin thru wd, the last thing you want is to be wide awake during the night. Like I said the ice is only for the morning when I wake up hanging, I am going to have the ice around 7.30am and it will be around .03g (less then a pt). Then thru the day if I start goin thru wd, which I will I reckon around 2pm I will pop a Valium. At night I will pop a couple more Val's and a 1/4 to 1/2 a xannies and see how I go thru the night.
    I reckon I will just need to get thru the first day/night and then things will get more easier, it's just getting thru day 1
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    #30
    Ex-Bluelighter Busty St Clare's Avatar
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    *waits patiently to hear from you day 4*

    Best of luck polo79, though I think you might be underestimating how difficult things will be in the next few days. Look around and you will see the crumpled corpses of many failed attempts to break an addiction. My only advice would be, accept you are going to have suffer at some point. No pain no gain as they say. You can't run away from the crash, certainly not with another drug like speed.
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    #31
    So true busty Clare, I am underestimating the wd. But I will def do it by the start of the new week, so this wkend will be my last chance to get my act together.
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    #32
    Bluelighter Ashley's Avatar
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    Try to get your use down a bit before Monday, bro. I know you'll come good.

    Are you still using a half/daily?

    Plenty of time before now and then to prepare and set yourself up for a successful withdrawal. What are your plans at this stage? Still got some benzos handy for the first few days?
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    #33
    Yeah ash I do have some Val's and a couple of benzos. Ash, i was using 1.7g a day with my other mate who is trying to quit aswell. So I guess it was pretty much just over a half per day per person. Today we only use a half btw both of us and tomo I am just going to go cold turkey and have nothing except the Val's and xannies. I hope that it's wont be bad and that I will be ok to go to work on Monday. I can't take a day off on mon cos I fked up at work on fri, I left work at 10am to go get on and didn't get back to work til 12.30-1pm. so my manager wasn't happy and on top of that I fk up some my work duties and my manager had to help fix it up.
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    #34
    I'd suggest using kratom, if available, as a substitute for heroin when you come off it all together rather than going cold turkey. It can be habit forming in itself, but far less so than opiates. It's known to help out heaps with withdrawals. But it can also cause withdrawals if you choose to carry on your kratom use as a replacement for your heroin use. So I suggest using it for the first few days you come off and then only if the withdrawals are too powerful. Once you are over the withdrawal stage you can start using it recreationally if you want; it's nowhere near as addictive as opiates and is quite a gentle herb.
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    #35
    Bluelighter Ashley's Avatar
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    Best of luck mate, hopefully it won't be too rough.

    How long have you been using heroin? And such a large amount?
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    #36
    I blew the wend away and couldn't get clean! I'm really at my end of trying to get clean, I just want to just finish my life at the moment. I have reduce my use but not by much and I am very close to just having a big hit n just going to sleep n never waking up, at least that way I don't need to deal with this addiction and the constant pain I'm causing to my folks. I'm just giving them false hopes that one day their son can be a normal person instead of a bloody druggie. I'm so ashamed right now and I don't know if this will end.
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    #37
    Bluelighter Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polo79 View Post
    I blew the wend away and couldn't get clean! I'm really at my end of trying to get clean, I just want to just finish my life at the moment. I have reduce my use but not by much and I am very close to just having a big hit n just going to sleep n never waking up, at least that way I don't need to deal with this addiction and the constant pain I'm causing to my folks. I'm just giving them false hopes that one day their son can be a normal person instead of a bloody druggie. I'm so ashamed right now and I don't know if this will end.
    I've been right there, bro. Don't beat yourself up too hard, few of us beat this trap of addiction on the first attempt. Or the second, etc. Work out a plan, keep your chin up, and keep plugging away at it. If I can do it, so can you champ. I never thought there'd be a day when I wasn't sticking a fit in my arm, crazy! Granted, it's only been a couple months - but it's the only couple months of being "clean" I have had over the last 5 years.

    Keep us posted, yeah?

    Ash.
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    #38
    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    ^ this
    stick with it mate - recovery is a long road, and i'm sure your parents would prefer a recovering druggie son to a dead son.
    don't be so hard on yourself, it's not an easy thing you're trying to do.
    we're with you man, keep going
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Polo79 View Post
    I blew the wend away and couldn't get clean! I'm really at my end of trying to get clean, I just want to just finish my life at the moment. I have reduce my use but not by much and I am very close to just having a big hit n just going to sleep n never waking up, at least that way I don't need to deal with this addiction and the constant pain I'm causing to my folks. I'm just giving them false hopes that one day their son can be a normal person instead of a bloody druggie. I'm so ashamed right now and I don't know if this will end.
    I have felt terribly about opiate addiction as well and I want to say that being addicted to opiates is not worth ending your life over.

    Don't let anyone, not even your own self tell you different.

    Opiates are a powerful drug that people use world wide as a cure all for ailments that are both psychological and or physical.

    Lots of people get hooked on opiates, the only thing that separates you from a lot of people who aren't currently hooked is that you have a good connection and they don't.

    Your only real problem with heroin is it's illegal and you feel forced to get off it before your ready. I know your feeling a lot of shame for getting your self into this position in the first place but opiates are a tricky proposition for even the best of us.

    Let it run it's course and you'll be a better person for it. Don't let this shit cost you your future and stop calling your self a junky, who's word is that anyway?
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Jim View Post
    I have felt terribly about opiate addiction as well and I want to say that being addicted to opiates is not worth ending your life over.

    Don't let anyone, not even your own self tell you different.

    Opiates are a powerful drug that people use world wide as a cure all for ailments that are both psychological and or physical.

    Lots of people get hooked on opiates, the only thing that separates you from a lot of people who aren't currently hooked is that you have a good connection and they don't.

    Your only real problem with heroin is it's illegal and you feel forced to get off it before your ready. I know your feeling a lot of shame for getting your self into this position in the first place but opiates are a tricky proposition for even the best of us.

    Let it run it's course and you'll be a better person for it. Don't let this shit cost you your future and stop calling your self a junky, who's word is that anyway?
    Couldn't have said it better myself Don't let anyone tell you you're a bad person for which drugs you use and how you use them. And 'junky' is just like any hurtful epithet, a word used by small minded people to reduce others down to a stereotype of something that's one tiny aspect of their personality and consequently deny them their basic humanity.

    You're not weak or stupid or worthless because you're addicted to heroin, it's just a drug like any other and addiction is an illness as much as depression or anxiety or bipolar.

    Nobody quits on the first try, and usually not the second or third. You just have to keep at it.

    Have you thought about consulting drug treatment services? Some support certainly couldn't hurt.
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    #41
    I thank you guys for the support and words of encouragement but I have been on this shit for almost 20yrs on and off. I have tried programs before and honestly my opinion is that the programs is just a substitute. I remember back when I was in high school, i said to myself that I would never ever end up like the older guys I used to hang with, at their age and still doing drugs. Well I guess that didn't happened.

    Anyway, the tapering method didnt work so far this wk, but i have reduced the amount of times we play. Now it's Thursday night and I am hoping to go without for as long as i can tomo at work. Then from sat to sun I plan to go thru w/d,

    Do you guys think I will be ok to go to work on Monday? (if I stick with the plan) or will I be still going thru w/ds?
    Advice and thoughts are welcomed.
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    #42
    2 days withdrawal is not going to be enough and you will be sick at work on Monday. To be serious about this your going to need 1-2 weeks, if it's heroin your using exclusively then they say the first 3-4 days are the worst.

    If you have been doing it for 20 years on and off, does this imply you have had periods of abstinence over those 20 years. Can I ask what the rush is to get clean now? and yes of course methadone and bupe are just heroin substitutes, they are powerful opiates in their own right. But injecting street heroin every day comes with the risk of OD and is pretty bad for your health, destroys your veins, puts you at risk of fatal heart disease etc, not to mention the financial cost. Really, if you are serious about getting off you could just switch to codeine (providing you know how to CWE) and do a rapid detox over a few weeks and then kick cold turkey. That's the kind of cold turkey where you could be at work after two days...but you'l feel like shit
    Last edited by Sonny Jim; 12-07-2012 at 17:41.
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    #43
    Yeah honestly mate it doesn't sound like cold turkey is viable for you at this stage unless you're willing to take at least a week or two off work to recover. If that's not an option then I'd go with either codeine taper, if that works for you, or buy some suboxone or methadone (preferably the former) on the street and taper using that. Even after 3 or 4 days off it you're going to feel like shit, depressed, low energy, sleep problems, all that fun stuff.
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    #44
    If it was as easy as taking a weekend off work, everyone would do it and there would be no reason for opiod replacement therapy.
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    #45
    Bluelighter Sustanon's Avatar
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    20 years is a long time although it can be done. I cant say I had an addiction anywhere near urs im sure but the addiction I had was pretty bad each to there own. Hydromorphone and Heroin. 2 worst shit opiates to come off. Tbh I would slowly taper down. Id start reducing the dosages day by day over a longer period of time just to be safe then replacement therapy can be done, without subs or methadone. I used weed to battle my addiction, You really need to take up a fight and be prepared to fight everything that gets in ur way.

    Best to take a lot of time off, perfect time for using up some annual leave, gotta make sure you have the right medications for all the withdrawals and have a helping hand when u need it the most. Support is everything when it comes down to quitting. Buds helped me to sleep, eat and take away the "boredom" when I felt liek using opies. Codeine is also another good taper although after that long im sure ur tolerance is through the roof and u will bearly feel anything but it may keep the WDs at bay. The key is to think that u will become better day by day, it will be a very hard journey but the reward will be so much more worth it. I know its one of the hardest substances to come off but it can be done if you have the will power and are strong enough. I always thought about which is more important to me?

    Life or heroin? Because life with heroin is possible (although it eventually consumes you whole) but without life there is no heroin. I say start your own thread here in Bluelight like a progress thread (im sure mods wont mind) and we will support you 100% through your journey and help u with whatever we can, we know how evil the shit is, it steals your soul, beats you up and leaves u in the most brutal place know to man and eventually comes for your life. I really hope that itll all work out for u man, just remember to be strong.
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    #46
    When I say I have been using for 20yrs, it's not straight 20yrs. I did get clean and would be clean for a few good years.
    I may have to request some annual leave from work or even take some unpaid leave if need by. Heroin usually last for 12hrs or is it 24hrs before a person begins to hang, so I may have a bit of smack tonight before bed.....say around 11pm. Then maybe I can go without til after work, I will need to see exactly how long it takes before I hang.

    Obviously the weekend cold turkey didn't work! My mate fk me up!
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    #47
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    Go out to the forest, and jam a blotter of 25c-nbome up your nose.

    Case closed.

    naww enough of the cocky comment -

    I was on a 5yr habit when I went cold turkey last november - haven't looked back since.

    Honestly no matter how much you try to bring down the dose you'll find a few things;

    a) you use a dose of heroin, after titrating a bit - and it won't quell the w/d or hit the spot.

    b) you get tempted to go bigger, and do on occasion. Which only makes the next day that much worse.

    If you really want off you need to change the behaviors which trigger use, people you hang with, reasons you use heroin. You need to think long and deep about how all these factors play a role in your addictive behaviors.

    I struggled with programs and dropping the dose slowly etc etc. In the end i was still at least using weekly to fortnightly just because I didn't know what else to do. And so the whole w/d period just turns into 2 week cycles of getting on, getting clean then getting on again.

    Psychedelics - honestly take a 2 week break, or more if possible - cold turkey, keep yourself fed, and hydrated as well as possible. make your room comfy, let someone close to you who doesn't use know about your situation. A few weeks after cessation try a psychedelic trip with some friends who don't use. Admittedly in my case my last uses of heroin were, a day before I took the trip, and the day after i got back from the doof. When I tried smack again for the first time after this trip - the drug felt totally disgusting, I legit felt sick as opposed to the normal relaxed feeling I get from heroin, and just disoriented. This is the last time I used heroin, which would have been somewhere around the 28th/29th of November last year.
    Last edited by MrIbis; 17-07-2012 at 05:23.
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    #48
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    i feel what you're saying mr ibis, but psychedelics and cold turkey simply don't work for everyone. a dmt trip brought the best and worst out of me and i haven't been able to kick the lingering guilt association if it weren't for staying on the gear this far along. i am trying to work things as best as possible. day by day.

    us "lifers" don't find it that simple and have the need for long term maintenance and tapering.

    if it weren't for the great program and rapport i've built with my doctor and support network around me i would have been 6ft under a long time ago or in a prison cell. i'm lucky to have got off by only being section 13'd a few times.

    keep working it polo.
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    #49
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    It's a hard life... I guess I was lucky eh...

    I know what you're going through, I was worried for a long time i'd be in the same boat with my dilemmas... Good Luck anyway mate, i'm sure you'll find the answer
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    #50
    Bluelighter Ashley's Avatar
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    Any news Polo79? I've had my fingers crossed for you. Are you making progress mate? Keep us posted. We're all here for you chief.

    Hope you're getting there mate, I'm sure in the end you will prevail.

    Ash.
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