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Thread: Help - advice regarding tapering off heroin

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    Bluelight Crew footscrazy's Avatar
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    You keep asking the same question hoping for a different answer. I provided you with a journal link before regarding naltrexone use to withdraw off opioids. I think it's a bad idea, and I don't think there's any way you're going to be clean by Wed, but it doesn't seem like you're going to listen to anyone saying what you don't want to hear. Why someone would actually choose to take naltrexone, in a non monitored situation, is beyond me. Rapid naltrexone detox, when done as intended, is done under anaesthetic.
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    ^ WRT self administering naltrexone in non monitored situation: Some of us (like me) just aren't very clever
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    It's not that I'm not listening, I read a post by a member who took it and even though it was intensive pain and he felt like death he had said he didn't regret the choice he made and would do it again. I have done this but was forced to last timeas I was denying to my parents I was clean. So when my dad said to me if ur clean u can take the naltrexone, he had called my puff so I took it and went straight into rapid detox. I know it's not the most smartest idea at all and when done at a clinic you are put under an aesthetic. I have quite a shit load of valiums, a few temazapans, panadine forte and loads of xannies. I'm popping a Valium now and also half a brick of xannies.
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    Footscray you think I keep asking the same questions over again until I get the answer I want is wrong. I respect and thank ppl who would even take time out to read my post not to mention also respond. Like I said previously I'm not goingt to jump on a maintenance program, to me that's just substituting one illegal drug to an legal drug, most of the time ppl do this is so they have a backup if ever they ain't able to get on to h. You maybe happy being on a program for the rest of your life but that's not want I want. It's not a life lived in full when ur on a program and honestly the only girls who will ate someone whose on the methadone or bupe is another drug addict, no normal girl would even look twice at you. Also two people who are users should never date as they will just drag each other down. Not sure if u have a gf or bf but u never know if they are with u for love or for the drugs u supplto them. But I guess each to their own, but my money is that once ur clean or she's clean she will dump a like an old syringe.
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    Bluelight Crew footscrazy's Avatar
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    I was a bit insensitive in my last post and I do apologise for that. I just don't think taking naltrexone is a good choice, and most other posters have agreed. But if you've weighed up the pros and cons and decided that's what you want to do, go for it. You've come back a few times saying it's your last resort and you'll do it, and then don't, which is why I said it appears you're looking for validation to use the naltrexone. I know it's not easy to quit and opioid addiction though.

    Regarding the rest of your post, it's more important to me to make choices for myself based on what works for me, rather than letting potential romantic partners dictate my lifestyle. There are plenty of valid reasons not to date an addict (or anyone, for that matter), but anyone who decided someone was unworthy to date simply because they held a bupe or methadone prescription, isn't someone I would have any interest knowing anyway. I value intelligence and free thinking in a partner.
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    That's definitely worth noting. Are you quitting so you can pick up girls? Impress your family? That aint going to work. You will only ever succeed in getting off any addiction if you're doing it for yourself. Not for yourself so others will like you. But for yourself because you know that's what YOU want to do. I don't want to quit.. but I do.. but I don't. Life is fucked, the world is fucked and heroin is the only thing that gives me happiness apart from my children - which I can't be around unless I'm medicated. Talk about a useless father.
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    Footscray I re-read my post and I was rude I am sorry, I guess some of the frustration was released on ur response. I have been on a program before and it's shit. Maintenance never worked for me I would just keep using, I'm the type of person who has to get clean and jump on the naltrexzone for a period of time and then I'm fine without it. It's just that time period where you start to live a normal life and do things like other normal people. I've done it all, from cold turkey to maint program to rapid detox in st kilda. The reason I'm here is I thought I could control it and cos at the beginning I was smoking instead of wacking I thought I was strong enough. But this happen at 2011 and a good period to build a habit.

    Opi8 - I'm doing this for myself, not for a chick or anyone else. Like u said someone people feel that the only good thing is heroin in their lives and by the sounds of it you do too. (apologies if I misinterpret) --apart from your kids. I myself know that I want to quit, I lived as a druggie and a life as a normal person and honestly it's better being clean. I realized that the last time I was on this shit was due stuff turning bad bad with a girl. In the end it just delays the pain ur running from, if u do want to quit think of ur kids, think bout the money u spend on this could be goin to them or even think how it would be if ur kids end up being on it as well. Im only saying this cos I give good advice in any situation to people but when it comes to my own I can't do as I say. I had my dad say to me once if I wanted to quit and I said yes and he basically said if u don't get clean he would start using as well to see what's it like. Hen I heard that I pictured him sticking a syringe in his arm and that's the last thing I wanted to ever picture him doing.

    A bit side tracked... I hear u footsie and i know I can't jump pop it and think 24hrs later I'm fine and I KNOW isay this each time that this wkend is it...but I'm going to try a bit of everyone's advice here. My aim is to fast aper from h this wk and sthen pop a bit of nal. If that don't work then I'm just going to tell my olds n then get locked in the house and quit.
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    Ex-Bluelighter
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    just tell your olds, prepare and lock yourself up in the house but make sure you get out as soon as possible when you get past the acute stages. i don't see any advantage in taking the naltrexone after the fact you've quit unless it's supervised.

    when i kicked at the beginning of last year i told dad what was up, clued him in with the situation, what to expect, etc and it helped immensely just having his moral support and helping me out by making meals.
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    Bluelighter cassandragemini's Avatar
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    ^ yeah that's a top idea, just having someone who you trust and feel comfortable with helping you with life's basic functions while withdrawaling helps a lot, same with the moral support.

    At the end of the day polo you just have to do it man, you need to stop with the theories and get into the practice because that's the only way it happens. Postponing it til tomorrow or the end of the week just allows you to find an excuse and a way out, get up early and write a list of everything you think you're going to need and need to take into account, go out and collect it all and go home and get into it. Maybe you could talk to your folks the night before (or maybe give them a little more warning) and let them know of your situation and what you need from them then go stay with them and get started straight away. Don't give yourself the time to think about how it's going to be and risk giving yourself an out, just get moving and get stuck in.
    I echo the others who advised against naltrexone, I think it's going to put you through so much more unnecessary hurt for little gain, getting clean and getting back to near 100% takes time and dabbling with something that could seriously fuck your shit up for almost zero return isnt worth it is it? You have a fair habit yeah? Like around a gram a day? I'd put aside at least 5-7 days for the acute stage and another 7-14 days for the lingering symptoms to clear up. You will realistically have to write off doing pretty much anything for the first 5 days at least, you can push through if you have to but it will be tough. Once you pass the first 7 days you should be able to function somewhat in your day to day life but you're going to feel pretty glum for the next week or two. Also you obviously want to do whatever you can to avoid relapsing or else it's all for nothing! I usually found the first 3 days and after the first week the most difficult to control cravings, maybe you should tie-up your future self by telling your parents or someone who could help you out not to allow you to leave and have them take total control of your finances etc, give yourself no way out whatsoever.

    May the force be with you.
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    Hi all.... tried bloody heaps of times but ive seemed to have forgotten my password, I tried resetting my pwd but when I asked It to send the temporary pwd the website doesnt recongise the email I registered with. So therefore after heaps of attempts I gave up and just registered again. Well just t let u all know where im at - I finally told my parents the situation, they are very understanding this time. I have told them to administer the nal on sat.
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    Well, l took all your advice and told my parents, also I have taken time off work to get dean. I had ne droid but to take time off work, just a week before l was to take leave I drd the dumbest thing anyone could do. You all wcouldn't it guess what I did basically I had dropped my pouch of shit at work. They asked we if the drugs Were mine but I denied it and send they were a friends who I took off as I was concerned for him, they couldn't say I was lying to them so they believed me
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    I've been on heroin for about 2yrs. It started with perks & exstacy & now I'm up to 30bags a day. If I'm in a bad mood I can do a brick a day no problem. I only short it no shooting.
    Idk how to get off it. I'm spending a grand a week & not even getting high anymore.
    Should I taper down or just go cold Turkey? Subs don't rly work for me.
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    Bluelighter ld50 vs ssri's Avatar
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    Im no expert with opiates and dont use them much but i was thinking you could taper of by using poppy tea. It has a long slow release duration and that might help with any sickness symptoms you may experience. I find slow release chemicals good for tapering of things. Id just go cold turkey and put up with the sickness easy for me to say i know. Your best hope to.never using again is going cold turkey and holding a positive mental attitude some would say differently though. Hope this helps

    Peace
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    Reading over this post was quite depressing. I wonder if polo is even still alive. I've never seen somebody pretend they wanted to quit H as much as this guy did, throughout this entire thread. Saying you're going to quit, and then relapsing is one thing. Happens all the time. But saying you're going to quit every week for 5 years straight, and still bein' pumped on the juice every time you make a new "quitting" post? As sad as it is, it was borderline comical to read through. I honestly hope you ended up getting clean and resolved the issues with your family. However, based on what I've seen in this thread, I wouldn't be making any bets.

    If you happen to stumble back upon this thread, polo... Please let us know how you're doing. I really do hope you're doing better, bud. Because the last we saw, you were still stuck in the same cycle you claimed to hate for what was it? 20 years?


    Cheers my friend,
    Strype
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strype View Post
    Reading over this post was quite depressing. I wonder if polo is even still alive.
    @Strype - looks like Polo is lurking. He was connected on 31/10 /2016 so clearly he has been around. Though he didn't keep us updated on how he went taking his naltrexone tablets.

    The problem with a lot of desperate addicts seeking to get off heroin is the fact that the vast majority of them have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever on what is actually happening when you take heroin, or what happens when you take something from the large pharmacology of drugs that exists for treating addiction, opiate induced sickness (aka withdrawals), overdose and so on.

    Naltrexone tablets will strip away opiates sitting on the Mu and Ku receptor that live in the PAG. The problem is that just leaves em open to being attacked by IL-1β, IL-6, and TNF-α which is part of the reason why opiate induced sickness so debilitating (and why it comes on so hard when you've been given Naltrexone during an overdose) because awful chemicals, produced by the brain as a result of foreign substances passing through the blood brain barrier, bind to these receptors.

    Its the equivalent of throwing acid (the burning type) on the receptors in your brain that make you high. Its not going to feel nice

    Quote Originally Posted by Strype View Post
    I've never seen somebody pretend they wanted to quit H as much as this guy did, throughout this entire thread. Saying you're going to quit, and then relapsing is one thing. Happens all the time. But saying you're going to quit every week for 5 years straight, and still bein' pumped on the juice every time you make a new "quitting" post? As sad as it is, it was borderline comical to read through. I honestly hope you ended up getting clean and resolved the issues with your family. However, based on what I've seen in this thread, I wouldn't be making any bets.
    Wtf. Lay off the guy.

    Firstly have a read of this

    Secondly all drug addicts see the terrible destruction our addictions are causing us. If anything it contributes to the very pain that results in trying to self medicate with the very drugs that caused the pain in the first place. Yes we have a bit of denial but during our quite moments of clarity we all know it.

    This is part of the pull, the justification for going clean in the first place. To end the madness. To stop all of the negatives caused by the daily constant use of powerful drugs. But just because we break doesn't make us weak. The The one thing I do know is that my pain is completely different to Polo's, and so is my capacity to stand said pain. Just because he can handle a little bit more or less then me doesn't make him weak. Everyone has breaking point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strype View Post
    If you happen to stumble back upon this thread, polo... Please let us know how you're doing. I really do hope you're doing better, bud. Because the last we saw, you were still stuck in the same cycle you claimed to hate for what was it? 20 years?
    What are people magically meant to be cured the moment they stop using heroin and decided to "quit". Where in the process of quitting did his brain somehow become fixed? Did Polo suddenly find himself cured of all of the problems that lead him to becoming addicted to drugs?

    This is what confuses me the most about peoples belief that quitting drugs is somehow final. That one day you'll quit them after years of abusing them and wham bam everythings fixed. It makes no sense when you think about it. Something is broken in people before they become addicts. Its the reason why they became addicts because their brains are broken and it fucking hurts.

    The chemicals that caused the pain before Polo became a drug user are still present. The stressful situations that we all go through in life are still happening, amplifying the pain to levels that normal people don't normally feel. The anxiety and depression that we get that others don't is still happening.

    I'm thinking of creating a ethos for drug addicts. A mission statement. Something along lines of

    Code:
    All drug users need to learn to live with their addictions. To live with the monkey, to have the emotional and financial capacity to feed him without harming or hurting anyone else around us. To mitigate its harms and to constantly strive for a healthy, better life. To discharge our responsibilities and to never abuse or hurt anyone no matter how high or in pain we are in. We must never perputate the pain and misery that made us the people we are today onto anyone else. 
    
    To understand that our addictions are not a choice. That the illegal nature of drugs and their lack of regulation is the real root cause of many of the harms. That the shame and guilt of others is a burden we do not have to bare. We may smoke, shoot, eat, snort, absorb a myriad of drugs but we must never shoot up the guilt and shame of others as we learn to live with drugs and our addictions
    something like that.

    I'm also thinking of

    Code:
    In the name of the needle, the drink, and the smoke 
    
    holy high pray for our pain as we do for others. 
    
    Give us our daily drugs and 
    
    forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. 
    
    Lead us not into diseases and bad drugs 
    
    but deliver us a functioning life free of pain and anxiety.
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    I am as my name states in a mess, have never slammed h but I snort it,. Thought I could control myself,. I want my life back, do you think tapering is more likely to succeed if you snort? I am 50 yrs old and chronic pain is what did me in,. I will have benzos and opiates ready when starting my taper. I am determined to walk away from this wiser and stronger, please don't beat me up any harder than I do to myself, I have kept my addiction so private, my questions are regarding difference between using a rig or doing a line. I am afraid and so humbled by the power of this drug,. I promise all reading this I am so opiate tolerant that I rarely have been "high'.i appreciate. Anyone taking the time to answer all guidance is so very welcome
    Miss inamess
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    Also I have been on opiates for 15 yrs, I swore I'd never use H well as careful as I am my meds just grew legs and walked, sucks and a friend knew I was hitting Wd and said this will help due to the mess of opiate cutoffs reporting the truth to dr or insurance seems to be the kiss of death, I am in pain every day many surgeries osteomyelitis resulting in bone being removed and the pain is unbearable it also resulted in RSD which is a merciless condition I am about 6 months into using a B a day it's killing me it has to stop
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    I'm sitting here wishing for a reply, I have isolated myself so much so afraid of being exposed Help����������
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inamess View Post
    Also I have been on opiates for 15 yrs, I swore I'd never use H well as careful as I am my meds just grew legs and walked, sucks and a friend knew I was hitting Wd and said this will help due to the mess of opiate cutoffs reporting the truth to dr or insurance seems to be the kiss of death, I am in pain every day many surgeries osteomyelitis resulting in bone being removed and the pain is unbearable it also resulted in RSD which is a merciless condition I am about 6 months into using a B a day it's killing me it has to stop
    Ok no one will judge you here. If your in withdrawals right now and you cannot get medical help then consider the following.

    1. Baths/showers. These are utter godsend. Seriously there is nothing better. You'll get some moments of relief from the agony of opiate induced sickness.

    2. You can go out and buy some imodium. Its an opiate but doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. You can get some relief from pains and issues in your stomach when you suffer from opiate induced sickness.

    3. Walks and exercise. I know this is hard with chronic pain but seriously a good slow walk will help you heaps. Sitting at home doing nothing is the hardest thing to do when withdrawing.

    4. Large doses of vitamins. Like 30-60mg of vitamin C every 30mins. Eat green apples. Lots of fruit. There are Polyphenols that will assist with the uptake of vitamins that target some of the chemicals responsible for the opiate induced sickness your experiencing.,

    and if you can get access to a doctor, tell them straight up what your going through and ask for medication to assist. Such meds include

    1. Clonidine,

    2. Valium/benzos

    long term

    1. Suboxone maintenance

    2. Methadone maintenance

    Re Tapering yes definitely you should do a taper. The biggest problem is that people taper way to fast and when they fail (because the pain gets too much and they use their old dose again) they feel guilty and bad which means more dosing at the high level.

    Tapers have to be slow, Very slow. Like a few percent reductions once every 20-30 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inamess View Post
    I am as my name states in a mess, have never slammed h but I snort it,. Thought I could control myself,. I want my life back, do you think tapering is more likely to succeed if you snort? I am 50 yrs old and chronic pain is what did me in,. I will have benzos and opiates ready when starting my taper. I am determined to walk away from this wiser and stronger, please don't beat me up any harder than I do to myself, I have kept my addiction so private, my questions are regarding difference between using a rig or doing a line. I am afraid and so humbled by the power of this drug,. I promise all reading this I am so opiate tolerant that I rarely have been "high'.i appreciate. Anyone taking the time to answer all guidance is so very welcome
    Miss inamess
    Injecting heroin or snorting a line, Route of Administration (ROA) doesn't make you anymore or less a junkie. Don't believe the propaganda and misinformation that injecting a drug somehow makes you unhelpable, or some sort of monster.

    You have a chronic pain issue. A legitimate reason for taking pain relief. Do not be convinced by our judo-christian puritan based medical system that believes any sort of high is wrong or illegal. You yourself seemed to believe that by not getting high you weren't a junkie.

    Reveal in the word. Like people called homosexuals faggots you have to realise that at the end of the day its a word dripping in bigotry and hate.

    All drug addiction is about pain and about relief from the pain. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Treating pain with pain relief. The problem is when getting those drugs becomes unsustainable but is that our fault that opiates are so restricted and controlled? Opiates are ironically one of the least toxic drugs on the planet. Like you've noticed you can take opiates all your life and not suffer anything more then some constipation.

    The thing is that even with people with chronic pain issue I suspect that some people with these chronic pain issues have the same neurology biology that a "drug addict" has. Your lucky because your chronic pain condition allowed you to get access to opiates.

    See not every drug addict is seeking a high. The vast majority of us just want to live our days without debilitating anxiety, pain and depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inamess View Post
    I'm sitting here wishing for a reply, I have isolated myself so much so afraid of being exposed Help����������
    Your not alone. Right now there are millions of people suffering opiate induced sickness. Your not alone. But if you want to talk by all means private message me.

    What your in is the drug closet. Its the same as what the gays go through, hiding part of their true identity from their friends, family and employers who have been conditioned to believe that drugs are bad.
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    I am still alive and yes i did get clean, however i recently relapsed again and fkd up by using thinking i can control it. I have sub strips this time around to stop.
    Does anyone have experience with a sub detox? I would like to get off by doing a quick taper and could take any advice anyone has on how the best way to do it.
    I age 6 strips of 8mg and 5 strips of 2mg, i dont want to get hooked on subs and was wondering how long it takes before one gets addicted to susb? I have heard that ppl have been succesful doing a sub taper n jumping off to quit heroin. Anyone has a sub taper schedule that they have done and was succesful??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polo79 View Post
    I have been through wd before but I can't rembr how long it was to get thru it. I hav both Val's n a couple of xannies and also panadine forte. So my plan.. Starting tomorrow is to have abit of gear with some ice and see how long I can be not sick for, my aim is to go at least til 10pm at night and have a little bit of gear before bed. Then next day the same thing but with less gear n same amount of ice.
    I'm going thru the same thing and I'm wondering what "ice" is. If you're reffering to "glass" like normal or....
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    Quote Originally Posted by polo792 View Post
    I am still alive and yes i did get clean, however i recently relapsed again and fkd up by using thinking i can control it. I have sub strips this time around to stop.
    Does anyone have experience with a sub detox? I would like to get off by doing a quick taper and could take any advice anyone has on how the best way to do it.
    I age 6 strips of 8mg and 5 strips of 2mg, i dont want to get hooked on subs and was wondering how long it takes before one gets addicted to susb? I have heard that ppl have been succesful doing a sub taper n jumping off to quit heroin. Anyone has a sub taper schedule that they have done and was succesful??
    How did you quit the first time?
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    Only use when u are dead sick and use just alil amount to get u so ur not sick.If u can get it done to a half a bag In the am the half at night u can do it.But eventually I will have to stop altogether and the withdrawals will kick in but not as bad.I highly recommend methadone if ur way doesn't work,the first thing they do is put u on a 3 week taper but most people decide to stay on it 4 longer periods of time then are stuck 4 years.Also if u can get suboxone off the street that's even better just get 2 or 3 stripes and when ur withdraws kick in take just half of the strip and do that but once again wether it's herion methadone or subs u gotta have the day that u decide ok no more and follow through because no matter wut ur gonna have withdrawals they just won't be as bad.Just some advice once u get subs or methadone u gotta taper off within a week or so or I will end up like allot of people addicted to the methadone or subs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polo792 View Post
    I am still alive and yes i did get clean, however i recently relapsed again and fkd up by using thinking i can control it. I have sub strips this time around to stop.
    Does anyone have experience with a sub detox? I would like to get off by doing a quick taper and could take any advice anyone has on how the best way to do it.
    I age 6 strips of 8mg and 5 strips of 2mg, i dont want to get hooked on subs and was wondering how long it takes before one gets addicted to susb? I have heard that ppl have been succesful doing a sub taper n jumping off to quit heroin. Anyone has a sub taper schedule that they have done and was succesful??
    Tapers only work if your disciplined and can handle pain. A bit of pain considering that you don't much bupe.

    Your hooked on opiates/opioids (one is natural and the other synthetic). They bind to your opiate receptors whilst simultaneously binding to other receptors that tell your body to create toxic chemicals. You don't feel the toxicity because of the pain relieving abilities of the opiates. But they build up. They are always trying to get into the pleasure centre of your brain, the Mu and Ku where the heroin binds to give you pain free bliss.

    As a Mu or Ku receptor becomes available some of these toxic chemicals get through. You feel this as the sweats, that weird taste/feel in your body and mouth. That feeling that is telling you that if you don't take heroin soon your going to get sick.

    So you take more heroin. But the more you take the more the toxic chemicals build - this is what we call tolerance. So you take more heroin which creates more toxic chemicals which causes you to take more heroin which makes more and more toxic chemicals and so on.....this is is otherwise known as a positive feedback loop and is at the heart of addiction. Addiction has two distinct phases. Short term and long term. Both are caused by the same factor but simply at different levels.

    So what happens in the acute phases (short term) is eventually you run out of heroin/pills and bam the receptors for all sorts of functions across your brain and body are flooded by this levy breaking flood of toxic chemicals.

    For example you have opiate receptors in your stomach hence the constipation. But when the toxic chemicals bind to them bam diarrhoea. They attack tissue and joints hence the aches and pains. They cause nausea hence the vomiting.

    I call it dope induced sickness.

    Therefore with knowledge you can begin to work out a strategy. Either stop your body from making the toxic chemicals (difficult) or taper (difficult as well). The reason why tapers technically work is because your reducing the amount of toxic chemicals that are created bit by bit. Therefore reducing the impact they have. But equally the amount of pain relieving opiates in your blood is decreasing meaning your going to feel pain.

    How much depends on how much you taper by and how quickly. The longer the taper the better I find.

    The other thing to consider is not quitting.

    If you can get on a program and afford it then do it. State sponsored distribution of synthetic opiates is far cheaper (especially if you don't live US). Yes you have to go to a clinic but give them clean piss, be good, don't get into trouble and you'll be on takeways in no time.

    The other option is a month before you begin your taper/quit is that you take a drug that stops the production of the toxic chemicals. This is available via prescription in certain Asian countries and is in development in the US for addiction. Its called ibudilast. I've also been told there are certain psychotropic darknet vendors that are in production and will/are selling it.
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