Are there honestly any worthwhile Research Chemicals?

[Halif]

The cannabinoids are scary. This is coming from someone all too well acquainted with psychosis (both genetic and substance induced).

Weed/pot/MJ/etc is no joke. That plant is a powerhouse and commands respect. If something is wrong in your kingdom, then smoking weed will lead you to the issues at hand.

Hydro is a different beast altogether, but then those synthetics.... fuck...

It's the classic tale of nature providing just what's needed, then human being finds a way to ramp it up for kicks, then science finds a way to make it a nightmare. The further you get from the source, the more twisted shit gets.

[lcrlover]

Me too. Looks like you owe me one.

I can see why some people may like, or even prefer these chems. But for me, interest is still at 0.

There's no purpose for me to want to try them (cannibiniods that is)

EDIT: I've heard ALOT of good things with the 4-substituted typtamines.

If you mean 4FA it was quite a trip I never got around to trying a couple of others

[triplies]

I've tried a few different spice blends as well as a JWH (can't remember which one) and all were terrible. Considering the side effects of them were worse than cannabis and the effects were inferior to the real thing I don't see how these even sold. I know around 10 people who are zombies because of spice blends. They look like decade long meth users after only 12 months of everyday smoking and they act worse. They won't even smoke actual cannabis.

MXE is incredible and I completely agree that it is not better than k but rather has its time and place. 'M-holes' are terrible I find and I tend to keep mxe dosing in the low range for the more disassociative effect and I like how I'm still able to function. I actually used to abhorr ketamine because I couldn't have any recreational fun with it, mxe let's me do this. K holes still stand as the superior spiritual experience though.

nBOME s Imo have no place in drug culture as the experience they provide has already been accommodated for by traditional psychadelics. Nbomes make me feel unhealthy, a dirty, grimey feel.

Mxe is the only RC so far that I can take and something doesn't feel off. They seem to carry an 'imperfect' vibe and just are not satisfying. That said, this could all just be due to conditioning and what I've had available to me.

[lcrlover]

triplies as a once upon a time long term meth user I agree with some of what you say about jwh. However the spice I used was incredible as far as the high went, I was much higher and in a dif way from anything weed ever did for me. It didn't last as long, but that's why redosing was invented. The side effects were as horrible as were the results were impressive, a true nightmare of a drug, for me.

[Captain Brewster]

I was a huge pyrazolam fan at one stage.

If addiction and tolerance didn't exist, I'd still be munging on them.

EDIT: well to be honest, there are other factors that come to play here.

[Halif]

Fucking pyrazolam!! To my mind it's the most streamlined, effective, no-nonsense anti-anxiety pill going around. I am amazed that governments the world over don't love it because it only does one thing: kills anxiety. If you don't have anxiety, you'll say it's a bunk pill. That's how it should be dammit!

I'm a little excited due to chronic sleep deprivation so excuse the sudden turn-around: I'm not at all surprised that governments/corporations don't like pyrazolam... it's not addictive enough.. heheehe

<edit>MORE!

No, we have alprazolam!! Yeah!! Alpraz! Fuck yeah! Feels good, don't it! Spread it around so the plebs get a taste.... and.. then. ... (OMG).. make it much harder to get! YES! CONTROL THE POPULATION!

[Captain Brewster]

Heh, we debunked this thread.

The answer to this threads question is a simple yes.

If you mean 4FA it was quite a trip I never got around to trying a couple of others

Don't think 4fa (4 substituted amphet?) is a 4-sub typtamine, the 4 HO's and 4 ACO's is what I'm referring to.

[spacejunk]

MAL is pretty good IMHO

[poledriver]

I know around 10 people who are zombies because of spice blends. They look like decade long meth users after only 12 months of everyday smoking and they act worse. They won't even smoke actual cannabis.

Wow, no shit?

[Halif]

MAL is pretty good IMHO

Dude, did you just throw some shit in there to fuck with people?!

I goog'd MAL and got some shit about an anime list whereas I was expecting to find out about some super hardcore underground opioid RC that users inject into their wangs - with turkey basters!

Very disappointed, Mr Junk. I thought you were .... cool

[LearntYoung]

I really like Methoxetamine (MXE), Etizolam and 4-Fluoramphetamine (4-FA)
Only problem is that I like those first two a bit too much and therefore I am not allowed to buy them anymore (well, I'm not allowing myself)

I think there will be others that are extremely good, but there has been a shitload of research already and there are reasons that the current street drugs are the ones made in the underground circuit.
They have to be extremely good to be those chosen to be produced there...

[drug_mentor]

I have to weigh in on the synthetic cannabanoids, to me they are fucking terrible. I tried a few different blends and at best they are just not enjoyable and at worst they are quite uncomfortable. I never wigged out or anything, but felt a notable spike in my anxiety levels when having to perform every day tasks which would not be difficult had I ingested an equivalent amount of herbal cannabis. I used to get offered them for free on a semi regular basis a couple years ago and never had trouble turning it down. To me they just have a nasty, toxic and dirty feel to them as well.

I don't know a single cannabis smoker who enjoys them, I do know a couple idiots who, from time to time when the town is dry, will convince themselves to go down to the local sex shop and buy a packet or two of this stuff. Pretty much the second they smoke it they remember why the fuck its been 9-12 months since the last time they got any. The fact they are constantly re branding and re formulating them I think is part of the reason idiots manage to convince themselves they might be alright this time around.

To each their own and everything, but I just find it hard to picture someone who could enjoy these drugs but would not be better off with natural cannabis. I am sure a few people like this exist but I would certainly think they are in the minority.

I honestly never found an RC that I was that particularly fond of. I never tried 4mmc or methylone til I pretty much killed the magic with MDMA, so perhaps that is part of the reason I didn't get much out of them. I could see some potential in the feeling I got from 4mmc, like double the dose could have been enjoyable, but I decided to keep spending my money on drugs that made me feel awesome at the correct dosage, mostly methamphetamine. With the popularity that once surrounded 4mmc and methylone drugs though, it would probably be hard to justify a statement that they were not worthwhile, generally speaking.

I never really got the hype surrounding MDPV either and A-PVP was even shitter. In my mind they are toxic feeling drugs that give enough stimulation but nowhere near enough euphoria. The desire to re dose these shitty substances is ridiculous, its like you are finally starting to feel a little bit better as they wear off and you convince yourself another line/toke will actually be good and not terrible this time. Complete waste of time, money and braincells imho.

2-CB was pretty good the one time I had it, if I had an interest in taking psychedelics any more I could see myself using this substance from time to time. In my opinion it is on par with LSD, maybe a little bit below. It has more of a body load and the head space is less fun, but the visuals are more impressive and the duration isn't as much of a fuck around as LSD's. For me 2-CB is certainly a more enjoyable drug than Psilocybin mushrooms are.

As benzo's go I only ever tried etizolam, don't get me wrong it works like a benzo and certainly offers relief of anxiety, but for me personally there are benzodiazepines I find more effective/desirable than this one and could only see myself turning to it if price and/or availability became a factor with other benzos and not etiz, which is unlikely since 95%+ of my benzo intake is shit that is prescribed to me.

MXE was just weird to me, it boggles my mind how many people prefer it to ketamine. If it lasted half as long I probably would have experimented further. I only tried the stuff twice before basically giving the rest of my gram away to various people, it isn't so much that I didn't enjoy the drug but I found myself rarely having enough time to really explore it since it does have a pretty long duration, and I don't like to spend that many hours of the day whacked out any more. There was certainly a lot of times during the experience it was enjoyable, but equally, there was a decent amount of neutral weirdness as well. These days when I take drugs, I tend to stick to drugs that just make me feel good and don't involve a great deal of awkwardness or riding out weird vibes. If I am going to take a dissociative these days it will be either ketamine or nitrous oxide, almost definitely nitrous though.

I think in the areas of psychedelics and dissociatives there are clearly a number of RC drugs that are pretty popular, there are probably just as many that are unpopular and/or unpleasant though. It seems lately there are more RC benzo's that are popular enough, although one can't really assume their popularity is due to their desirability or effectiveness any more than it is that people don't need to convince their doctor they need them to place an order.

In conclusion, I would say the answer is yes there are a number of worthwhile RC's, but it does take some level of research, effort and experimentation on what works for you individually to find out which ones are worthwhile for you, and there is probably a pretty reasonable chance you will pay for a shitty experience or three in the process.

For people who indulge in drugs relatively infrequently and already have one or two drugs up their sleeve in each class of drugs they enjoy, which they can acquire consistently at a good price and purity then they probably are not too worthwhile. For those who use a lot of drugs and are looking for something new, or those who simply crave new experiences, then there are certainly worthwhile things to be found on the wide menu of RC's. Whether or not there is anything that compares to its traditional equivalent on the whole is unlikely in my opinion, but there are probably many who disagree with me on that.

[spacejunk]

dude, did you just throw some shit in there to fuck with people?!

I goog'd mal and got some shit about an anime list whereas i was expecting to find out about some super hardcore underground opioid rc that users inject into their wangs - with turkey basters!

Very disappointed, mr junk. I thought you were .... cool

methallylescaline; 3,5-dimethoxy-4-methallyloxyphenethylamine)

[LearntYoung]

Ah yeah, forgot 2C-E, the psychedelic I love the most so far

[Halif]

Spacejunk: thanks for that. I hope you didn't take offence at my ridiculous sleep deprived humour.

Drug_Mentor: as always, extremely informative and solid information/opinions.

This is turning into a very valuable and interesting thread. And to state the (420!) blazingly obvious: regardless of whether it's a 'natural' substance, a "classical" drug (ie. recognised and long-standing champions like cocaine, H, etc), or a relatively novel RC, the key word is MODERATION!

Who better to preach on moderation than someone who hasn't yet figured it out for themselves, eh? What a hypocrite I am.

[spacejunk]

Spacejunk: thanks for that. I hope you didn't take offence at my ridiculous sleep deprived humour.

Of course not, my dear friend.
I feel like a bit of a wanker for noting such an obscure chem, but as far as mescaline analogues go, MAL a fucking winner from my perspective.
As all-consuming and consciousness-expanding as LSD. And possibly more visual.
Better than MDMA, but I never dug that so much anyway.
Never been such a huge fan of phenethylamine psychedelics, but to me the use of RCs is being able to experiment with exotic psychs.

[mystery mister E]

I love Ethylphenidate, it gives me everything I get from speed plus a heap of euphoria. It can be pretty rough on your nose, depending on your ROA. Etizolam is fantastic for comedowns. Minimal benzo withdrawal symptoms. I really enjoyed 6-EAPB but it's quickly dropped off the scene and the current xAPB's don't do it for me.

[Crankinit]

MXE was just weird to me, it boggles my mind how many people prefer it to ketamine. If it lasted half as long I probably would have experimented further. I only tried the stuff twice before basically giving the rest of my gram away to various people, it isn't so much that I didn't enjoy the drug but I found myself rarely having enough time to really explore it since it does have a pretty long duration, and I don't like to spend that many hours of the day whacked out any more. There was certainly a lot of times during the experience it was enjoyable, but equally, there was a decent amount of neutral weirdness as well. These days when I take drugs, I tend to stick to drugs that just make me feel good and don't involve a great deal of awkwardness or riding out weird vibes. If I am going to take a dissociative these days it will be either ketamine or nitrous oxide, almost definitely nitrous though.

I don't think people prefer it to ketamine so much as it's just easier to obtain clean MXE for a much lower price - or at least it used to be, it seems to have dropped off a bit lately.

I think it's also somewhat an upper v. downer thing. K is great for just completely detaching from reality and lying on the couch out of it, but MXE, because of the slight stimulant properties, seems to work better as a social drug.

If I've got K, I'm going to set up the room with some candlelight and incense, put on some chilled out music, then use it to get into a Khole and stay in that hole. It's a very meditative experience. Whereas if I have MXE I take lower doses, usually with friends, watch movies or play games, I've even gone out on it a few times and it went really well with a hard dance party.

The flip side is that, at higher doses, MXE has a slightly darker feel to it, whereas K is almost absurdly euphoric for me, and the fact that you don't eventually pass out on MXE means you can accidentally overdo it and end up absurdly dissociated while still moving around, which doesn't end well (the other weekend a friend slightly overdid it and ended up rolling around on the floor for 20 minutes - he was awake, he just refused to get off the floor and was completely incoherent, every time I dragged him onto the couch he'd just climb back down onto the floor. Was funny in retrospect, especially since he doesn't remember it at all, but a pain in the ass and a little fucked up at the time). MXE also has that speedy aftereffect that K doesn't, which can make it a pain to relax or sleep afterwards.

Fucking pyrazolam!! To my mind it's the most streamlined, effective, no-nonsense anti-anxiety pill going around. I am amazed that governments the world over don't love it because it only does one thing: kills anxiety. If you don't have anxiety, you'll say it's a bunk pill. That's how it should be dammit!

I'm a little excited due to chronic sleep deprivation so excuse the sudden turn-around: I'm not at all surprised that governments/corporations don't like pyrazolam... it's not addictive enough.. heheehe

<edit>MORE!

No, we have alprazolam!! Yeah!! Alpraz! Fuck yeah! Feels good, don't it! Spread it around so the plebs get a taste.... and.. then. ... (OMG).. make it much harder to get! YES! CONTROL THE POPULATION!

Have you tried ativan (lorazepam)? It's exactly the same as you describe, kills anxiety dead, but it doesn't get you fucked up, other than that feeling of peace where the anxiety used to be. But no loss of motor control or amnesia. Like you said about pyrazolam, I'm surprised it isn't prescribed more often, but instead it's (so I'm told) almost never given out outside of hospitals.

[LearntYoung]

I have to disagree with you there.
To me, even high doses of MXE are euphoric.
I have been to the phase where I saw myself in third person in the surreal movie like room I was in and took even more then.
That's when it became really confusing and I forgot parts there, but all the parts I do remember were awesome and euphoric.

[Crankinit]

I think it's a personal taste thing, everyone is different and reacts to drugs differently. MXE is a complicated drug, for me it seems to start out relaxing and euphoric, yet still somewhat stimulating (in the same way that good meth can be both stimulating and relaxing), but, especially with low quality product, after a while or with higher doses, it turns alien (in a bad way) and dark and a bit too edgy.

K, on the flip side, is rarely anything but pure, out of this world bliss, the only exception being one occasion when I dived into the hole while already in a particularly negative mindset.

I'm also more of a downer person than an upper person these days, which I'm sure plays into it.

[blakout]

Lorazepam is a pretty rare prescription that's for sure. Pharmacy I work at only has an opened box in stock (I.e. The last script filled wasn't even a full box) and it's about to reach expiry date. I only know of one patient on it atm (different strength to the stock on shelf, ones 1mg the other 2.5mg can't remember which is which) and they have it prescribed once every 3 days at night, so I'm assuming it's as a sleep aid and is packed as such in a dose administration aid given to patient by nurse at correct time. This patient is a notorious doctor shopper and has history of abuse, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with lorazepam in particular being used.

[Crankinit]

It is good for sleep - not because it has the hypnotic properties of something like nitrazepam, but because it calms your mind and puts you in a settled, relaxed mood if you're the kind of who's thoughts churn while they lie in bed.

Actually funnily enough, now you mention it I saw a box of 50x the 1mg pills on the bench in someone's prescription basket a week or two back when I went and picked up my suboxone, so maybe it isn't so rare.

I hate it when they leave tasty scripts lying in arms reach. One time there was a basket with two boxes of Jurnista.... mmm. I mean I guess I can take it as a sign of trust, but it feels kind of like dangling someone's favorite junk food in front of them while they're trying to diet.

[Mudshark]

4-ACO - DMT is superb ; just beautiful , without the gut hassles of shrooms .

For those unable to source LSD , AL- LAD is a pretty good alternative , but can give some folk tremors and nausea for an hour or so after ingesting . LSZ can be similarly distressing for some , only more so - [ apparently , the 9-10 lysergamides are notorious for body load and nausea ]

Take care - Customs / Oz Post , etc , are becoming good at intercepting such mail - maybe wise to buy small quantities only ....

[bobjayne]

I've personally researched a few 'rcs' over the years and have only been impressed by a couple - 4-fa and mxe.

Im an opiate addict that decorates the dead inside me with lucy and dimitri. The latter of which comes too far n few between our city which has a predilection toward methamphetamines and pot. I do love me some nice homegrown, of course

[mindseye888]

Amt, Mxe, Al-lad, Lsz, Mxp, Etizolam, Diclazepam.
I think that as stand alone substances not replacements these are great.