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Thread: Different Shades of MDMA Powder/crystals

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    #26
    Bluelighter thestudent14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by futura2012 View Post
    I guess if Asia dont make it you rely on Europe smuggling and its a long way by boat
    I watch an Aus customs doc here in UK. Looks like the customs are switched on although tv could mean anything.
    Alot of stuff does get through, whilst it is a long way to travel, the profits here are enourmous. We can't do price discussion, but Australians would probably pay the highest anywhere in the world for drugs, especially party drugs like Meth and Ecstasy.


    Also I have very much enjoyed reading you and biscuit discuss the purity's between MDMA and MDMA HCl, this is something I have often wondered about. I believe that people are always saying how much MDMA is in something it is referring to MDMA HCl. Unless it was a freebase.

    Edit: Just read your next post, that was amazing haha. Is this allowed to stay up mod? I don't wanna see be taken down =(
    Last edited by thestudent14; 10-09-2012 at 22:16.
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    #27
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    Alot of stuff does get through, whilst it is a long way to travel, the profits here are enourmous. We can't do price discussion, but Australians would probably pay the highest anywhere in the world for drugs, especially party drugs like Meth and Ecstasy.
    hello student - yeah seems SR have denied all knowledge of Aussie. the ones from SR in Aussie are taking mega risk. As I understand it sassafras oil is banned along with all the other precursors and the law enforcement there just seem to have it nailed. The customs are shit hot yet despite this you have one ginormous gang of ravers all wanting pills.

    Unfortunatly as spacerocks points out the desire to produce bunk pills is just too much for your average gangster to resist. I assume they can order Rcs in the post and start building transformer and bart simpson pills until the day is long.

    As bluelighters we all know to test pills but I bet this in the grand sceme of things is a total minority. If you went to a rave and started spouting Marquis tests I bet half of the ravers would say WTF. Its certainly like that in UK I guess we have better and much cheaper pills however.

    Also I have very much enjoyed reading you and biscuit discuss the purity's between MDMA and MDMA HCl, this is something I have often wondered about. I believe that people are always saying how much MDMA is in something it is referring to MDMA HCl. Unless it was a freebase.
    There is a thread on ED right now named moonrock molley. Thats where the pic of the white MDMA came from and I posted on page one of this thread in my MDMA colour pictorial.

    That debate is ongoing it covers the 84% / 100% argument and will hopefully and finally reach a conclusion to it all. I have contacted E data and Street worx. That update will get added on there.

    Whether you say 84% or say 100% MDMA its very debatable really but nice to thrash things out. Debating is fun

    I just like people to know because it makes them one step ahead of your average street dealer who is always spouting terms like "moonrocks" and "100% pure" all that kind of nonsense.

    Any comment from anyone always welcome on ED.

    Edit: Just read your next post, that was amazing haha. Is this allowed to stay up mod? I don't wanna see be taken down =(
    Should be fine. No recipes just discussing why MDMA crystal is a certain colour. Pictures make things easy to understand.

    When you understand you get the message. The message is understand about impurities. This in my book is TRUE Harm Reduction.

    The truth not hype..
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    #28
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    Sassafras oil is sold under the counter in legal high stores in Australia. I bought some as the guy said I could rub it onto my legs and get an MDMA high. I didn't believe him so bought it anyway. It just made me stick like liquorice for days so I threw it out.
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    #29
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    Sassafras oil is sold under the counter in legal high stores in Australia. I bought some as the guy said I could rub it onto my legs and get an MDMA high. I didn't believe him so bought it anyway. It just made me stick like liquorice for days so I threw it out.
    Shame on you mr verybuffed you shouldnt ditch the "gold nectar"

    As a rough approximation: 1 litre of most sassafras will produce 900mL of safrol.

    900mL of safrol will produce approx 720g of MDMA. Assuming a 60mG pill thats enough product for 12,000 pills

    Push the dose to 120mg you still make 6000 pills

    the amazing thing about MDMA is how little safrol is required to make relatively masses of active doses.

    The equation wih LSD becomes even more interesting.

    1kG of LSD-25
    1 active dose = 50uG
    20 doses in 1mG
    20,000 doses in 1G
    20,000,000 20 million doses in 1kG
    totally insane

    A small LSD lab could easily supply all of australia.
    The process of making LSD is leaps and bounds above making MDMA

    MDMA can be made in plastic buckets. LSD requires sophisticated UV techniques and a whole host of full on chemistry apparatus. Its also a bitch to handle as its sensitive to light and evaporates. Absorbs in the skin. In all a total bitch to make. but as you can see the returns can be HUGE.
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    #30
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    I had no idea the yield was that high. Now I am very glad that I ditched what I had. I potentially had 2 kilos of MDMA!
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    #31
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    I am not sure how it works in Aussie but I think in America if you were caught with a load of glassware maybe had been on some synth forums and indicated you had the intention of turning the safrol into MDMA then you would be prosecuted for a theoretical "potential" from the precursor. So if you had a coupe of litres of safrol you would effectively be charged with the intent to manuacture around 1.5-2kG MDMA. I would not want to be the guy with that charge in America !! Likely 20 years or more. Yikes..

    If you are caught with just a bottle of Sassafras oil I dont know if that is legal in Aus or not?

    Even if it were safrol you could easily claim aromatherapy use.

    If both oils were schedule 1 I could only estimate what might happen.

    no glassware no obvious signs of lab activity maybe a slapped wrist I honestly dont know.

    Camphor oil is another source of safrol. You can buy it on <snip> in uk

    Although we also have Holland on our door step so not such a desire to make MDMA here.
    Last edited by spacejunk; 11-09-2012 at 12:59.
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    #32
    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    can we keep this discussion away from sources and synthesis please, ladies and gentlemen?
    thank you kindly
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    #33
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    Hello Spacejunk

    I am sorry for that I wasnt trying to supply sources.

    Acknowledged what you are saying all good.

    Not trying to be a smart ass however but I notice you have an entire thread about Silk Road.

    Seems a silly and obvious question but is that not some kind of blatent source information?

    Please dont read me wrong I hear what you are saying and will do exactly as you require but just an observation.
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    #34
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    The silk road thread has elicited a great many opposing viewpoints regarding its appropriateness in this forum.
    You will notice however, that the thread itself is about the articles and media appearances of Tronica - Bluelight's Director of Research - who is an Australian bluelighter.

    Tronica's research has been extremely valuable to this community, and she has made numerous media appearances on the subject of the silk road itself.

    the difference may seem pedantic, but the thread is not a discussion of sources so much as a discussion of Tronica's research into what is one of the most revolutionary developments in drug black-marketeering in human history. we are not advocating the silk road, reviewing it or advertising it - simply discussing the monumental shift it seems to represent in the "war on drugs".

    it is also about giving 'one of our own' a pat on the back for her academic research into the new age of drugs.

    i hear what you are saying also - that extremely generic 'sources' are hardly that, but the difficulty is where to draw the line.
    the silk road has been getting a lot of press globally, and seems to be a valid talking point that goes beyond 'vendor discussion'.

    again, i don't want to come across as pedant on this, but for the sake of consistency i edited your post. i know you weren't giving out a source of MDMA precursors (hence the gentle reminder) but we try to be consistent in AusDD in regards to sourcing and name-dropping branded products and so fourth.
    Last edited by spacejunk; 11-09-2012 at 18:40.
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    #35
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    Good post Spacejunk. Are you mods taking Piracetam or something? All four of you are some seriously cluey cats
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    #36
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    haha thanks. we're just high on life mr verybuffed sir
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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verybuffed View Post
    Sassafras oil is sold under the counter in legal high stores in Australia.
    Are you sure about this? It doesn't sound right considerring how expensive it is on the black market.
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    #38
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    it used to be, but i don't think it is any more. i can certainly verify that it was ~5 years ago.
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    #39
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    i hear what you are saying also - that extremely generic 'sources' are hardly that, but the difficulty is where to draw the line.
    the silk road has been getting a lot of press globally, and seems to be a valid talking point that goes beyond 'vendor discussion'.

    again, i don't want to come across as pedant on this, but for the sake of consistency i edited your post. i know you weren't giving out a source of MDMA precursors (hence the gentle reminder) but we try to be consistent in AusDD in regards to sourcing and name-dropping branded products and so fourth.
    No worries Space Junk. Thanks for the explaination. The plan here is definitely not to provide help and assistance with manufacturing MDMA or providing source. Sorry about that mention above it wasnt intended in that way.

    I actually like it in this Forum its nice to get an Australian perspective on things as very different to Europe. Hopefully I can add something too as MDMA and analogs is my main interest

    Are you sure about this? It doesn't sound right considerring how expensive it is on the black market.
    I would agree with what you are saying here.

    As far as I was aware you have sassafras trees in aus but as soon as you pic off the bark you are breaking the law. Maybe I have this wrong?

    To obtain the sassafras you literally distill the bark its a very simple process. Sassafras bark is rich in safrol a couple of carrier bags full of it would make a reasonable amount of MDMA. Certainly enough for home experiment purposes.

    Personally I think its ridiculous as both sassafras and safrol are used for aromatherapy.

    Its almost as crazy as not being allowed chemistry glassware in certain states such as Texas in the USA. If you are a home experimenter you have to write a letter of intent to the local DEA. Its nuts. A three neck round bottom flask is a crime to own in texas also.

    Would be great to hear if someone knows about the staus of posession of sassafras bark / oil or safrol over there.

    I assume they are very strict on it i dunno?
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    #40
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    ^ i believe sassafras oil was illegal at the time it was sold on the sly in certain stores in australia. i actually used to work in one of these shops, just before they became flooded with research chemicals labelled "herbal" "party highs" etc.
    the herbs were fairly legit back then - we are talking pre-synthetic cannabimimetics and pre-imported "legal high" market. more ethnobotanicals and the more hippie herbal end of things.

    the sassafras oil was sold in little (100 mL or less?) bottles from memory, but there were also a number of other special herbal treats that were sold - with discretion - to particular, non-fuzz individuals. upstanding citizens; no normals need enquire. ferals were considered legit customers

    this is before the MDMA drought, when such essential oils were still in healthy supply, i would imagine. i always assumed it was used as directed (rub on skin and dance all night for an 'mdma body high' as VB mentioned) but this may have been bullshit or a cover story. the bottles were quite small though, and many of the herbs the store stocked were subtle - or placebo - at best. smoking blends that did nothing, maybe the odd exotic unknown herb like ephedra or kratom which i hadn't seen before in this country, nor since.
    so whether or not the sassafras was used in that manner - and whether or not it worked - is another matter.
    who can say? maybe people were using it for other things, but i can't ever recall actually selling any.

    i was of the belief that sassafras oil was illegal, but that nobody knew much about it, and i never had to deal with any police in the short time i worked there. i doubt many coppers outside of specialist drug units even know what sassafras is...but then again, that's probably a bit complacent. who knows?
    for the record, this store is not around any more, so i am not disclosing anything that could get anyone into strife. from what i understand they did a pretty good job of that themselves....but that's another story for another time, kids.
    Last edited by spacejunk; 11-09-2012 at 19:31.
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    #41
    I understood sassafras oil was also banned because they decided safrole was a human carcinogen. I too came across sassafras oil from certain essential oil distributors in the early 2000's and there was no question it contained very high % of safrole. It is long gone though.

    There have been mega MDMA labs in Australia in the early to mid 2000s, just like that article suggests. They pumped out hundreds of thousands of pills. They were few and far between but not unheard of. I cannot really say more than that and no, I had nothing to do with said lab!

    Which lab reports do you see that say they contain HCL? Edata wont report the salt because of DEA restrictions. On our pills of the 90s thread on ED someone suggested a "Defqon DANCE" might have an alternative salt. Why does it contain only MDMA yet is errm for a better word "dancey". Maybe not a coincedence there is DANCE stamped on the back of them but they only contain MDMA no adulterant.
    These reports are government reports from seized drugs used by the police and used in criminal prosecutions. They are 100% accurate because they of course need to be. Far more accurate than anything you might see on Dancesafe or Eve/Rave etc.
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    #42
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    Expanding upon this thread:

    If Racemic MDMA is 50/50% R-MDMA & S+MDMA...are there any studies with differing percentages....such as 40% R-MDMA and 60% S+MDMA?

    Is the 50/50 percentage split average for MDMA....or are there many different percentages?

    Do these percentage differences, if they exist, account for different synergistic effects?
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    #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verybuffed View Post
    Sassafras oil is sold under the counter in legal high stores in Australia. I bought some as the guy said I could rub it onto my legs and get an MDMA high. I didn't believe him so bought it anyway. It just made me stick like liquorice for days so I threw it out.


    I had a friend with a bottle and I used so much (being in doubt it would have any effect) that I was walking in the city, came across some friends who said they could smell it from quite a distance, didn't really get any effects though, just made me stink funny.
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    #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BongoBongo View Post
    Expanding upon this thread:

    If Racemic MDMA is 50/50% R-MDMA & S+MDMA...are there any studies with differing percentages....such as 40% R-MDMA and 60% S+MDMA?

    Is the 50/50 percentage split average for MDMA....or are there many different percentages?

    Do these percentage differences, if they exist, account for different synergistic effects?
    I don't think ANY studies have ever been done between different percentages of Racemic MDMA, but it is understood that (S)+ MDMA is the strongest form. This is where full affects are felt from 120mg,
    this is worth reading on Shulgins notes comparing them between people, between (S)+ MDMA, R(-)-MDMA and Racemic MDMA

    http://countyourculture.com/2011/05/...ed-magic-mdma/
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    #45
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    Expanding upon this thread:

    If Racemic MDMA is 50/50% R-MDMA & S+MDMA...are there any studies with differing percentages....such as 40% R-MDMA and 60% S+MDMA?
    In official capacity none I am aware of.

    As ecstasydata will not inform you of isomer ratios you might have unknowlingley conducted one of these tests yourself. Rumour has it a defqon DANCE is unbalanced isomers. The pills are very intense, very short lived and super dancey. Mints in the USA also have something very special about them.

    Both these pills GC/MSed for MDMA only. In regards to pill reporting you can thank the DEA for the lack of information provided it is them who have restricted ecstasydata.

    Is the 50/50 percentage split average for MDMA....or are there many different percentages?
    The standard synthetic route via MD-P2P will always produce Racemic MDMA. In order to resolve the isomers you have to either go through an additional process using tartric acid from MDMA freebase or you can use an asymmetric synthetic route and asymmetric catalyst but this is highly complex and almost a guarantee a clan lab wouldn't do it.

    Do these percentage differences, if they exist, account for different synergistic effects?
    It is definitely possible for them to exist. How likely I dont think we will ever know because of the DEA restriction. Diffeent ratios would definitely have a big effect on the high.

    Take D Meth and Racemic Meth. Both very different. D is more tweakey. Race is smoother. Mix the ratios of either of these and this would effect the high. Same would go for MDMA.

    I had a friend with a bottle and I used so much (being in doubt it would have any effect) that I was walking in the city, came across some friends who said they could smell it from quite a distance, didn't really get any effects though, just made me stink funny.
    Just goes to show make a few changes to a molecule and you go from aromatherapy oil to full on street drug.

    I don't think ANY studies have ever been done between different percentages of Racemic MDMA, but it is understood that (S)+ MDMA is the strongest form. This is where full affects are felt from 120mg,
    this is worth reading on Shulgins notes comparing them between people, between (S)+ MDMA, R(-)-MDMA and Racemic MDMA
    As far as I am aware this is very true. If I find anything I will post it on here.
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    #46
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    Sassafrass oil is obtainable because commercial Sassafrass oil uses it is devoid of safrole.
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    #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by futura2012 View Post
    Take D Meth and Racemic Meth. Both very different. D is more tweakey. Race is smoother. Mix the ratios of either of these and this would effect the high. Same would go for MDMA.
    Do you mean l-Meth? AFAIK Levo is the stimulating one that comes with very little high and a lot of the side effects of Meth, therefore racemic would be far smoother and logically it would leave d-Methylmethamphetamine the smoothest. I believe most ice is Dextro.
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    #48
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    Do you mean l-Meth? AFAIK Levo is the stimulating one that comes with very little high and a lot of the side effects of Meth, therefore racemic would be far smoother and logically it would leave d-Methylmethamphetamine the smoothest. I believe most ice is Dextro.
    D Meth is super potent. L Meth is a cold remedy totally inactive. Put the two together however and it makes the hit supposedly smoother. fester talks about this in his books:


    If you mix D with Race. It changes the 50:50 ratio. As per the previous question.

    I dont have a lot of experience with meth but that is an example of how messing with the isomers will change the buzz.

    Sassafrass oil is obtainable because commercial Sassafrass oil uses it is devoid of safrole.
    Sassafras is approx 90% safrol in some cases. I would be interested to read how this is done do you have a source? I am not surprised to hear this.

    Does Sassafras grow in Aus by the way?
    Last edited by footscrazy; 15-09-2012 at 18:52. Reason: Removed link.
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    #49
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    I've found clean clear crystals with a slight tint (purpulish) when light refracts from the surface to be the best cleanest gear. The white above still seems a tad yellowish but it's probably just the light. There is a web page "is it MDMA or is it bunk" or similar that has fucking great discriptions and photo's of 98% MDMA crystal and even ground up MDMA crystal (powder). MDMA NEVER sticks to a bag so anything that sticks like powder residue is NOT MDMA unless it's crushed and mixed with the cutter. Then you have MDMA not sticking and some MDMA crushed sticking to the cut and possibly the bag. Nice pictures above the brown shit may even have traces of Mercury depending on the technique used. Brown to dark black/brown is never good. There is a safrole free or reduced safrol oil but it's synthetic from memory and not the most popular amongst perfume/cosmetic manufactures as it's like diet coffee some taste but lacks the complexity of true safrole oil.
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    #50
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    The aluminum reaction is the mercury ladden shit and if not properly extracted and purified prepare for mercury poisoning!
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