Thread: Stimulant abuse harm reduction thread

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    Stimulant abuse harm reduction thread 
    Bluelighter MeDieViL's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
    Wanted to post in epsilon alpha's thread but thats about amphetamine's in specific.

    Ill start off talking about harm reduction with MDPV, first of all reading the reports its absolutely stupid to use it without having a decent supply of benzo's and antipsychotics.

    MDPV tends to cause psychosis easily, benzo's easily remove paranoia induced by stimulants, also the addition of a antipsychotic can do this, in my case i need a low benzo dose before ap's show antipsychotic activity but thats my own neurochemistry, either way its important to have both.

    A good ap is seroquel, atleast its perfect to take at the end of the evening as it makes you go sleep, problem is after taking a high enough dose to sleep you wake up walking around like a drunk with slurred speech and complete retardation, it really makes me retarded half the day after cant beleive shizo's find it helpfull in massive doses (besides positives offcourse).

    Taking low doses like 25mg 4 times a day with a benzo (aps only work with benzo's for me) it also causes too much tiredness, slurred speech and retardation. I beleive its best to only use to get to sleep.

    So the other ap's are better options for during daytime like lurisidone or what i would recommened amisulpiride as its pretty much side effect free, it causes massive prolactin increase tough but its selective for 5HT7, D2, D3 and the ghb receptor wich makes it effective with minimal side effects, lurisodone is also very selective.

    Another imo essential addition is quercetine, in rodents it slows morphine tolerance due to reducing nitric oxide, that should technically also work for benzo and stim tolerance. Im not sure what did it but adding quercetine with rhodiola today massively potentiated my desoxy MDPV combo, without them they were barely rewarding at all, but they never were for me in the past either so its something else then tolerance reversal.

    What looks promosing is methylene blue as its effectively been used as a antipsychotic and antimanic in the past, its mechanism of action is complex but involves:

    Blocking acetylcholine breakdown
    Inhibiting MAOA increasing serotonin
    nitric oxide depletion
    CGMP depletion
    Glutamate depletion
    Likely a D2 antagonist as all ap's derived of it have this activity.

    This MAY make it both a ideal ap and tolerance preventer for MDPV but it also may not be and kill you as mdpv's sero reuptake inhibition can cause sero syndrome with its maoa inhibition. Ill further discuss it in the amp thread lets not speculate too much.

    Also in my case the combo of desoxypipradol massively improves abuse issues with MDPV, ive written about this before:

    I came on this idea because of my use of desoxypipradol, its a very long acting stimulant wich people generally dont feel the urge to redose on, also there doesnt seem to be any craving when it slowly wears off.
    now ive been trying MDPV today and noticed the following benefits:
    - MDPV works alot stronger and synergizes perfectly with desoxy
    - I dont notice mdpv wear off, there's no sudden drop off not any craving afterwards so i cant be bothered at times just waiting hours to redose
    - It feels very smooth during the day, i never really notice anything wear off
    - It seems with desoxy as base like pretty much all drugs work perfectly on it, tried some flephedrone on it, worked like a charm and again a smooth transition to desoxy, also desoxy stayed as powerfull even if i took other drugs before it.
    no doubt that combining both will def end in a disaster for many, in my case its very helpfull as it massively reduces my consumption of MDPV by needing alot less and forgetting to redose for hours. For some weird reason i find the combo very therapeutic, desoxy helps my sa and anhedonia while MDPV is the only thing that really helps my ADHD without constant craving and redosing (? in contrast to everyone else, prob because of the combo but those drugs are the only ones that make me feel satisfied on a therapeutic dose.

    Ive been doing things i should do instead of doing rewarding crap things like talking wich id allways end up doing on things like amp because of the constant urge the redose.

    The reason i made this post is because rhodiola and quercetin potentiated it alot so im quite high but on those drugs it kinda feels unpleasant (? like too pushed feeling) not fun like recreational doses of amp reducing the dose alot is absolutely essential with those things potentiating it.

    def dont use mdpv therapeutic,The minimal reward is very interesting for me as id get bored when it gets late and take a seroquel to sleep unlike on other stims. Posting what im trying atm is probably a bad idea as it WILL lead to a trainwreck if ppl replicate my experiment without inducing sleep, making sure they are not high (if you dont think you are, you prob are its impossible to tell on stims) and doing it too long without tolerance, health reset breaks.

    Antipsychotics are a good way to block the euphoria for a part, im sure seroquel helps alot.

    I prob will just use desoxy on its own for therapeutic use as the motivational benefits of mdpv are prob induced by being higher then i should be. Still interesting try for a few days.

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    Bluelighter MeDieViL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Ill try a bit more seroquel to see wheter it removes the high, cant beleive the addition of quercetin and rhodiola made them put me in a semi manic state. (dosing both togheter can obviously do that too, but keeping doses in check prevented that the last days).
    Last edited by MeDieViL; 23-10-2012 at 00:58.

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    Mental Health

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    on planet earth
    MDPV is an NDRI

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    I like where you're going with this, but could you supply some citations for your claims regarding binding/pharmacological effects?

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    Bluelighter ugly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    I don't live in Belgium. I don't know what MPVD is. I know about the stims available where I live. Are you prescribed all of these? If I had to get prescribed stims, I wouldn't have any.

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    Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion
    sekio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Caladan / WaterWorld / Atreides Palace
    I think if you need to combine an antipsychotic with your stimulant, you need to think about dose reduction or choosing a different drug because it's not supposed to be a side effect of "normal" recreational dosing.

    All the flavanoids (quercertin etc) are ususally studied via injection & only effective at large doses, they are incredibly poorly bioavailiable and extensively metabolised. Part of what you're experiencing may just be placebo....

    This MAY make it both a ideal ap and tolerance preventer for MDPV but it also may not be and kill you as mdpv's sero reuptake inhibition can cause sero syndrome with its maoa inhibition.
    So it's not an ideal tolerance preventer then.

    The reason i made this post is because rhodiola and quercetin potentiated it alot so im quite high
    you need more than this to start a thread in ADD. This is just another stim binge induced "this combination of XYZ and MDPV is really good!" with nothing but your anecdotal report (n=1) and a bunch of wild tangents.

    and anyway its not harm reduction to say "if you want to use drug X please combine it with powerful antipsychotics Y or Z".
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