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    Six Simple Rules... To MDMA 
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    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Six Simple Rules… To MDMA


    MDMA is 3,4-methylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine, an empathogenic drug of the phenethylamine and amphetamine drug classes.

    Ecstasy is commonly used to describe mdma, specifically in pill form. Other drugs are also commonly sold in pill form as 'ecstacy' in an attempt to rip off the buyer.

    1. Dosage
    It is generally accepted that around 100mg is a good starter dose. However, more accurately you should dose around 1mg-2mg per kg weight. These are guidelines and the dose you should take will be affected by the factors listed below. Where on this dosage scale you choose will depend on your age, weight, height, gender, wether you've got an empty/full stomach, the intensity of experience wanted and tolerance to the drug. The purity/quality of your MDMA will also come into it. More experienced users may also want take more, it is up to the individual.

    Warning: It is not advised to take MDMA whilst on SSRI medication, as it may negate the effects of the MDMA completley. Taking MAOIs with MDMA can be FATAL. It is not advised that you stop taking prescribed medication to consume MDMA

    Example
    I am a 6ft4 male who weighs 90kg and I dose at 200mg+ a redose of ~100mg half an hour later. This dose would be considered high for many, but is more suitable to somebody my height and weight, as well as my experience with the drug.

    Example
    I would suggest a 6ft male weighing 77kg dose at 100-150mg+ a redose of around 40% of the original dose, depending on their experience with the drug. Females should take less. There are many variables that affect dosage, so it is difficult to say with any certainty what any one individual should take.

    If you are relatively new to MDMA I would suggest hitting the lower end of the dosage range, otherwise the experience may be too intense.

    2. Re-dosing
    The extent to which you are negatively affected by re-dosing, on a chemical basis, is that you are trying to flood your brain with more serotonin after much of it has already been used up. Further research needs to be conducted into these effects, but it is claimed that the risks range from: depression after the comedown, serotonin syndrome, increased risk of inability to sleep after dosing to merely being overwhelmed by the effects.

    MDMA works on a diminishing returns basis; the more you take the less you will get out of each dose.

    3. Keeping Safe – Test Your Product

    With the recent surge of fake pills and bunk MDMA crystal being sold these days it is very important you test your product first. You can get a test kit for relatively little cost. It's well worth piece of mind.

    MDMA is often replaced by similar chemicals such as Methylone, or nasty chemicals such as PMA or Piperazines which can cause serious damage to your health. At best, these chemicals will not produce the MDMA experience and you will be left disappointed.

    A Google search for ""ecstasy testing kit or "mdma test kit" will provide you with many relevant results. if you are having trouble understanding the options, consider these popular sources:

    Based in Australia: www.ecstasypilltest.com
    Based in the US: www.dancesafe.org
    Based in Europe: www.eztest.com

    4. Keeping Safe – Hydration and Over Heating
    It is important to keep hydrated when dancing on MDMA. You are unlikely to realise or pay much attention to yourself sweating buckets, but that water needs to be replaced. It is also vital you do not then decide to drown yourself with your water intake; keep a small bottle with you at all times and remember: “Sippy-sippy”, don’t drink it all in one go.

    If you feel like you’re spinning out, have a rest. Too many people think they can soldier on and end up passing out from over-heating, embarrassing themselves in the best case scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by TCMVegas View Post
    Sure

    Reactive molecules produced by excessive dopamine release cause oxidative stress inside of serotonergic and dopaminergic neuron axon terminals, which causes damage to important cellular components, or even cell death. Preventive measures are definitely worth taking:

    1) Keep body temperatue down. Avoid dancing in hot rooms on MDMA. Neurotoxicity is directly correlated with hyperthermia for MDMA, from many studies. Plus, extra serotonin release raises body temperature, worsening the problem. Endogenous antioxidant systems perform poorly at high body temperatures. Which leads to...
    2) Take antioxidants. I take Ubiquinol, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and Vitamin C if I'm planning on taking a methamphetamine (like MDMA).

    Please integrate some of this into your info. Me, Sekio, Epsilon Alpha, or many others in ADD can back up this info with primary research literature if needed. IMO, the point of BL is to get people information they need to know but don't. The BEST example I can think of for harm reduction is preventing brain damage from MDMA...

    Too many kids just don't realize that just because MDMA feels lovely, doesn't mean that it isn't pharmacologically and chemically similar to meth. Which, needless to say, people don't feel safe about using.

    Thanks for considering,
    TCMVegas

    5. Waiting in between dose days
    There has not been excessive research done into the long term effects of MDMA, and as a result it is sensible to have a cautious approach to consumption in respect to harm-reduction.

    It is generally accepted by the pill-popping population, that an individual should wait one month in between dose days to give your serotonin ample time to recover. A more certain answer can't be given, due to the reason above.

    Besides the possible negative health aspects, MDMA is a drug that works very much in the way of diminishing returns. The more you take, more often, the less intense the experience.

    6. The Comedown
    Your run of the mill comedown will not be the end of the world. You are likely to feel fatigued and suffer a loss of appetite, but it's important to try and eat something to get your body back into the routine. You should keep yourself well hydrated with water and/or isotonic sports drinks. A glucose drink or caffiene drink can help you feel a bit more alive for the day as well. It would be advisable to go out and get some sunlight and some light exercise if you feel up to it.


    In rare occasions an MDMA comedown can be a more difficult experience. If the individual consumes excessive amounts of MDMA regularly, it can lead to bouts of depression, fatigue and reduced cognitive skills in the short term. Again, further research is needed to fully understand the long term effects of MDMA use, but caution is always best. It is important to remember most of the negative effects you feel are likely to be temporary, and short term.

    If you feel you have been severely affected by MDMA, it is likely a lot of the negative feelings are mental rather than physical. The worse you think you are, and the less likely you feel you are going to recover, the less likely it is. It is important to stay positive, exercise, eat healthily and get plenty of natural sunlight to stimulate natural serotonin production. There are various diets that can increase naturally produced serotonin, one such is here:

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/entries/4...ve-no-comedown

    You will also be surprised what a couple sessions of good sleep will do you.

    MDMA comedown’s can last from a day, to a few days, to a few weeks. If you are still feeling negative effects after that, you should consult a medical professional for an assessment. Tell them exactly what is wrong; do not lie. You will not get into trouble , your doctor only has your own health in mind.



    If you have any other questions that you feel haven't been answered by this quick guide, feel free to use the search engine or create a new thread below.

    Happy Rolling,

    Ecstasy Discussion Moderating Team

    Credit to DarkSideSam for his E-Diet.
    Last edited by alasdairm; 13-03-2014 at 20:26.
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    #2
    Great post! One-stop-shop for people to get questions answered. Maybe you should quote Shulgin's dosage suggestions for kg/mg so people can do their own calculations instead of always asking how much to dose...
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    #3
    Bluelighter BlueHues's Avatar
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    Well done.
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    #4
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patra View Post
    Great post! One-stop-shop for people to get questions answered. Maybe you should quote Shulgin's dosage suggestions for kg/mg so people can do their own calculations instead of always asking how much to dose...
    I agree, will add soon. It's still a work in progress, need to link in darksidesam's e-diet as well.
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    #5
    Bluelight Crew knock's Avatar
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    You say 1.5mg-2mg per kg then quote weights in lbs, confusing

    I make it 0.675-0.9mg per lb. You could call that 1mg/lb and have a good time for free
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    #6
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockando View Post
    You say 1.5mg-2mg per kg then quote weights in lbs, confusing

    I make it 0.675-0.9mg per lb. You could call that 1mg/lb and have a good time for free
    Sorry, will clarify. I'll put it into imperial and metric for clarity....
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    #7
    Bluelighter BlueHues's Avatar
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    What you wrote seems very reasonable, unlike some of the advice I've seen being handed down lately!
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    #8
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHues View Post
    What you wrote seems very reasonable, unlike some of the advice I've seen being handed down lately!
    Thanks. Hopefully this sticky gets a bit of action.
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    #9
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    Not too happy that you used the word "threashold" with the amount of 100mg. I know you are talking about "street grade" MDMA and not pure but being that other reputable sites list the threashold dose as mcuh lower than this is going to add to confusion about dosing. granted they are talking pure MDMA and here you are talking in general terms.

    I think it would be more accurate to give the 100mg dose a more general description than likening it to a real threashold dose. maybe you should call it a "good starter dose" rather than a threashold.
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    #10
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    Great post and great information. I'll definitely be using this thread as a go to for quick information especially when informing friends who are new to rolling.
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt2012 View Post
    Not too happy that you used the word "threashold" with the amount of 100mg. I know you are talking about "street grade" MDMA and not pure but being that other reputable sites list the threashold dose as mcuh lower than this is going to add to confusion about dosing. granted they are talking pure MDMA and here you are talking in general terms.

    I think it would be more accurate to give the 100mg dose a more general description than likening it to a real threashold dose. maybe you should call it a "good starter dose" rather than a threashold.
    I think the threshold is something like 83mg, or something stupid like that. Will adapt.

    Just researched and Erowid says 30 for threshold :S Mental.
    Last edited by StrutterGear; 19-12-2012 at 05:15.
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    #12
    Bluelight Crew Darksidesam's Avatar
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    I have dosed 2 capsules (46mg each) 20 minutes apart. (But keep in mind i didn't use any mdma for around 5 months, Hadn't been out raving for a while and i don't really like taking it outside of raves)

    I actually got a chance to feel 46mg for a short while, and it just feels like when your having a good day.. then the rest kicked in and i was smiling like a gooden lol
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    #13
    Good advice! Maybe throw in not to roll more than two days in a row and that it wont work when on SSRIs? I have seen my fair share of people try to roll and the first thing I ask them is if they are on antidepressants and it turns out they are...
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    #14
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Generally accepted isn't just experts, but will adapt to avoid confusion.

    Will adapt the Shulgin reference; that's something new for me. Will add a cite.

    Will slightly adapt point "The Comedown" but those are the facts. I have never have had a suicidal comedown, nor have many. Some people do, that is what that point is for. The "I think I fried my brain" threads are a dime a dozen and it addresses those.
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    #15
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    I encourage discussion mate, and any additions/changes to this you anyone feels appropriate.
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    #16
    Good guide to mdma cant fault it.

    I have taken a few thousand ecstasy pills aswell over a 6 year period.took mdma crystal a bit too.
    Re i think i fried my brain threads in ED seriously get a hold of yourselves.if anyones a candidate for fried brain after e it me.
    I can say you do lose the magic after a few years but rarely u get glimpes of the magic with outstanding pills.
    However after years of excess use i would say ordinary life has lost the magic.i dont seem to get much joy out of life when sober i need mdma to feel alive/normal.but i wouldnt call it depression cant put my finger on it just numbness
    Last edited by acieed_ed; 24-12-2012 at 05:46.
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    #17
    Great info. But in my experience and lack of control when I redoes it kicks back even stronger at which point I will keep taking another capsule about. 100mg every2-3 hours. Prob not the best thing todo. But that is my prob I can't seem to save any for later dates
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    #18
    Sturttergear you are the most awesome guy on bluelight when i posted about the after effects of my 4 day binge you gave me clear and consice information and great advice on how best to go from there. That helped me so much as it was my first time ever taking mdma and you didnt include the overtone of looking down on me, which i have found many bluelighters to have. Then you post this awesome thread with all the info i could ever need! Dude you r the man! And dont even take into account what that guy said further up i cant remember his name but you probs know the arsehole i mean, he basicaly has nothing better to do so he decided to try and dissect a great post and make it seem asif he could have done it better. Thanks for being so cool!
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    #19
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Haha thanks for the support bud. Hope you're feeling a lil bit better from your binge. That's ok I take all criticism constructively, since the thread's a sticky we want all information to be as clear and correct as possible
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    #20
    Bluelighter futura2012's Avatar
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    Alexander Shulgin said three months is best, but there is wide debate over this.
    This statement *must* go. First of all, it is a myth. Alexander Shulgin never said it. Ann, his wife, did. Second, she did not say that it is dangerous to take it more often. She only stated that you develop tolerance and may lose the magic after a few years if you take it more often. Thus, her statement isn't directly related to HR. Her statement is about doing your best to keep MDMA interesting.
    Will adapt the Shulgin reference; that's something new for me. Will add a cite.
    Theres always a lot of debate on here about Shulgin Said What?

    For this reason I have updated my 4Shared Folder to include all the Shulgin References I can find. I will update more as I find more sources.

    The one that does cover dose is the document titled What is MDMA.

    http://www.4shared.com/folder/psb_z4...ins_Notes.html

    Example
    I would suggest a 6ft male weighing 170lbs dose at 100-150mg+ a redose of 50-75mg depending on their experience with the drug. Females should take less. There are many variables that affect dosage, so it is difficult to say with any certainty what any one individual should take.
    Personally I would say this is a little high. Would the 1.5mG per kilo sugested in the Shulgin document not be a better gauge or at least something that falls more in the 100-120mG zone not 200mg.

    Particularly for first timers.

    Also a minor issue but you are weighing people in pounds (imperial) and weighing drugs in mG (metric) This is very confusing.

    On the basis we are an international community and to avoid confusion please can we have all measurements in metric.
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    #21
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by futura2012 View Post
    Theres always a lot of debate on here about Shulgin Said What?

    For this reason I have updated my 4Shared Folder to include all the Shulgin References I can find. I will update more as I find more sources.

    The one that does cover dose is the document titled What is MDMA.

    http://www.4shared.com/folder/psb_z4...ins_Notes.html



    Personally I would say this is a little high. Would the 1.5mG per kilo sugested in the Shulgin document not be a better gauge or at least something that falls more in the 100-120mG zone not 200mg.

    Particularly for first timers.

    Also a minor issue but you are weighing people in pounds (imperial) and weighing drugs in mG (metric) This is very confusing.

    On the basis we are an international community and to avoid confusion please can we have all measurements in metric.
    I've adapted the dosage measurements to both pounds and kilos a while ago, they're both there for convenience. The 1.5mg per kilo dosage has been there a while too.

    I don't think it's paticularly high, there is a range dosage of 100-150 with a redose of 50-75 so a total of 150-225. As noted if you are experienced with the drug the higher range could be hit. I know first timers should really only be hitting the lower doasage bracket, maybe I wasnt clear, will adapt accordingly
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    #22
    Bluelighter futura2012's Avatar
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    I've adapted the dosage measurements to both pounds and kilos a while ago, they're both there for convenience. The 1.5mg per kilo dosage has been there a while too.
    Sorry Strutter im not trying to be a dick but I cant see it.


    If I am reading below correct then Example 1 is an 88.2kG male taking 300mG.

    Thats a total of 3.4mg per kilo over double the recomended 1.5mG per kilo.


    Example 2

    76.5kG male taking 150mg - 225mG thats 1.96mg - 2.94mG / per kilo.

    In both cases this is well above the recommended amounts.



    If you disagree with the quoted Shulgin dosing (which I accept is debatable) then why even quote it as these figures are way off. In some ways argubably a bit steering towards the strong side.

    I cant see the measurements in pounds and kilos either. In the examples below where are the kilo measurements?

    Personally I think quoting Imperial vs a Metric measurement in one is a little confusing but I realise weights are still done in the USA using pounds so I understand the conversions you are making for mass appeal. I had a brief look on Google for smaller units of imperial but I dont think Drachms or Grains are going to cut it vs the recognized mg in regards to MDMA

    Example
    I am a 6ft4 male who weighs 196 lbs and I dose at 200mg+ a redose of ~100mg half an hour later. This dose would be considered high for many, but is more suitable to somebody my height and weight, as well as my experience with the drug.

    Example
    I would suggest a 6ft male weighing 170lbs dose at 100-150mg+ a redose of 50-75mg depending on their experience with the drug. Females should take less. There are many variables that affect dosage, so it is difficult to say with any certainty what any one individual should take.

    If you are relatively new to MDMA I would suggest hitting the lower end of the dosage range, otherwise the experience may be too intense.
    Last edited by futura2012; 03-01-2013 at 22:21.
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    #23
    Bluelight Crew StrutterGear's Avatar
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    Oh sorry I see what you mean, you're taking about the examples. Brain fart mate, will change that.

    I was talking about this :P

    It is generally accepted that around 100mg is a good starter dose. However, more accurately you should dose around 1.5mg-2mg per kg weight, or 0.675mg - 0.9mg per lb weight of the individual. These are guidelines and the dose you should take will be affected by the factors listed above.

    The example one is my personal dosage amounts, because I factored in stuff like height (6ft4), weight, and my tolerance.

    I thought dosage from Shulgin did not include a redose? The intial dose is based on his recommendations and the higher bracket (2mg) is a figure quoted on a lot of sites. The redose is a top up and is kind of out of the initial dose equation, for example a 50% dose half an hour to an hour later won't really get you any "higher" just prolong the experience.

    Do you think I should drop the 1.5mg to 1mg and keep the 2, clearly stating that the dose between the two is what Shulgin recommended, but you can take more or less based on the factors discussed?

    Lol you ain't being a dick mate, I don't pretend to everything about MDMA, it's a thread for everybody to contribute to.
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    #24
    Bluelighter futura2012's Avatar
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    Do you think I should drop the 1.5mg to 1mg and keep the 2, clearly stating that the dose between the two is what Shulgin recommended, but you can take more or less based on the factors discussed?
    My personal opinion I think from a 100% HR perspective then the Shulgin quote 1.5mG per kilo with no redose is about spot on.

    However things as you rightly point out get slightly distorted once we start to talk about body mass as oposed to body weight. Ie is someone smaller and fatter more prone to damage from a higher dose of MDMA than say someone who is tall and skinny.

    The answer here is I have no idea. Its an interesting thought. I guess this would have to be up to the individual and see how they reacted to other drugs ie caffeine, alcohol etc if they were say sensitive to things then caution to be advised.

    In regards to the redose I have no reference to any official figures. In my personal opinion (and this is all I have) then I would say the redose should be advised at 40% of the initial dose but making it clear that the redose requires more caution.

    If we took say an 85kG Male then that would be 127.5mG initial dose with a redose of 51mG. Total nights dose would be 178.5mG.

    If I were in your position making a Sticky on the topic that would be about as far as I would push it but clearly this is just my opinion. In regards to dosing at the end of the day it is very individualistic and can only be a rough guide. In regards to dosing its probably best to turn to the forum and see what the majority say.

    From my experience of being on here the dosing debate usually falls at about 100mG-120mG initial with a redose of 50mG-60mG so not far off the figures quoted

    I think maybe in the examples point out that the ***/kg is for the initial dose and the redose figures are a kind of suck it and see exercise perhaps with some kind of cap limit.

    just my thoughts anyway
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    #25
    Bluelighter Folley's Avatar
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    lol I only weigh 100 pounds (45kg).... so if I was to follow the 1.5mg per KG rate, I would only need 67mg of MDMA to be rolling


    Yeah, I know, I'm tiny (no body fat). But shit, I need WAY more of a dose than that. Around double haha.... honestly I think the whole MG/KG thing is a bit skewed. Body weight isn't SUPER important when it comes to dosing drugs.
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