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    Dibutylone (bk-DMBDB) 
    #1
    Bluelighter hangyourhead's Avatar
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    I've searched all over Bluelight and different forums and can't find anything on this RC. There's one thread on here discussing bk-DMBDB, but really no good information or any trip reports. Obviously it's probably close to Butylone (bk-MBDB), but can anybody give me any worthwhile information on dose, effects, or anything helpful? I was thinking about possibly purchasing some from a reliable vendor.

    Thanks BL,
    HYHead
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    #2
    Spoiler for HUGE image:


    Is this what is meant by dibutylone? I can't think of any other way it could be intended, but then again vendors will name shit whatever, serotoni, benzo fury, rubbish all.

    So naming, hmm. I still suck at IUPAC. You could think of this as 3,4-methylenedioxy-α,α-diethyl-β-keto-N-methylphenethylamine, which is so, so wrong, or 3,4-methylenedioxy-β-keto-α-ethyl-N-methylphenbutylamine, with diethylamine replacing isopropylamine, or instead 3,4-methylenedioxy-β-keto-N-methylaldibutamine, with aldibutylamine, or aladbutamine, used in the manner of alphamethylphenethylamine = amphetamine, for aldibutylamine = alphadibutylphenethylamine or aladibutamine = alphalphadibutylphenethylamine but none of those are right. In fact they are all obscenely wrong.

    Lemme take a sec and try to do the IUPAC.

    Okay, I'm not sure how to handle the 'dibutyl' since that's ambiguous and means fuckall in this case (dibutylamine is a real thing but in this case that would be a tertiary amine of N-butyl-N-ethyl on a butyl backbone, to form the other butyl of 'butylamine'.. This is total nonsense so don't pay attention to what I just said). Dibutylone is just so, so fucking wrong of a name, which makes this weird since the structure may not even be correctly depicted above.

    SO, assuming it IS pictured correctly, I'm gonna go with (this is anything but authoritative, is my best guess) 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-ethyl-2-(methylamino)butan-1-one.

    People who can IUPAC all day long, am I anywhere close? My logic is its the usual 1,3-benzodioxole with the 5-yl to point out where on it the aliphatic chain meets. Then since the dibutyl (assuming I guessed the structure right in the picture above) means that the longest chain is still a butyl chain, so you get the butan part there. Then we have substitutions, a ketone, a methylamino, and the other 'dibutyl', which I'm guessing is actually an ethyl. So using priority rules for alphabetical starting letters you'd have 2-ethyl then 2-(methylamino) and then 1-one.

    This brings up my original, unarticulated point. You can't have a 'dibutylamine' *as a structure linking the N and the phenyl/benzodioxole* in the way that you can have an isopropylamine or ethylamine, all substitutions aside. Dibutyl makes it sound like there's a whopping four more carbons atoms there, all unsaturated. So where would that go, to be properly called dibutyl?

    Because butylone is named such since the *longest carbon chain* is butyl, but that is the backbone of the molecule. So either you'd have 'dibutyl) in the sense that there would be *two* butyls both coming off of that 5-yl of the benzodioxole, one being the ordinary aliphatic backbone holding the N-methyl amine and the other just being a whole other butyl just floating around, or else they may mean what I pictured, which I can think of as either alpha,alpha-diethyl-beta-keto-N-methylphenethylamine, which is IUPAC-incorrect since either ethyl can be part of the butyl that is the longest carbon chain there, or alpha-ethyl-beta-keto-alpha-(methylamino)butane, which I simplify to 1-ethyl-2-(methylamino)butan-1-one in alphabetical order...

    Not that that's how you form IUPAC names, but the nomenclature common to PIHKaL uses the alpha, beta language and different, non-IUPAC terms. Like PIHKaL nomenclature (yes i know Shulgin included the real names in the headings for each drug in book 2 but people dont use those most of the time here in PD) would be 3,4-methylenedioxy-beta-keto-N-methylamphetamine for methylone instead of 2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propan-1-one.

    Anyway does anybody see why I find this naming stupid? And did I royally butt-fuck the attempt at IUPACing the name?
    Last edited by Transform; 26-08-2013 at 23:23.
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    #3
    Wiki shows this:



    whereas butylone is

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    #4
    Bluelighter hangyourhead's Avatar
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    Oh, so pretty much an attempt at selling butylone by making it seem like a fancy exotic RC?
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    #5
    That said, TS, I think the reason you've found so little information is because there literally is so little information. You are likely going to pioneering if you decide to move forward with this compound in any way. I can't speak from any sort of scientific or pharmaceutical background, though I would assume it to have similar dosage and similar effects to butylone and other cathinones, but you can never know for sure really. If you do go and acquire it, use whatever scraps of knowledge you can find and tread forward carefully titrating your dose from extremely low levels just in case.. as I said, you'd be the one laying groundwork for others to follow.

    In any case, its certainly another compound with another methyl tacked on to get around some drug law somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by hangyourhead View Post
    Oh, so pretty much an attempt at selling butylone by making it seem like a fancy exotic RC?
    Well, technically butylone is a "fancy exotic RC." I don't think this is the case, its a different compound. Chances are its intended for a market where butylone was once legal and is now no longer, and due to loopholes and exclusions in the drug and analogue laws, dibutylone is in the clear for now.
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    #6
    Bluelighter hangyourhead's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, it is literally a different chem. I'm so high right now, I didn't realize at first haha. Just killed some bowls of some medical kush strain, alonside other things...

    EDIT: I am somewhat interested, SOMEWHAT, because it's so cheap haha
    Last edited by hangyourhead; 04-08-2013 at 06:55.
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    #7
    What the fuck? That is ANYTHING but a fucking 'dibutyl' anything!

    That is butylone with an N,N-dimethyl instead of an N-methyl.

    So we would have 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-(dimethylamino)butan-1-one, I think.

    Maybe 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-(N,N-dimethylamino)butan-1-one, but I think that's wrong, I think it's just plain 2-(dimethylamino)butan etc.

    Or In ordinary usage of nomenclature here on this forum it would be 3,4-methylenedioxy-beta-keto-N,N-dimethylphenbutylamine, or 3,4-methylenedioxy-beta-keto-alpha-ethyl-N,N-dimethylphenethylamine! Nowhere near dibutyl jack shit!

    Stupid vendors being stupid fucking idiots...
    Last edited by Deinonychus; 04-08-2013 at 10:05.
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    #8
    Wait, I see the issue. This is 'bk-DMBDB', so bk-DIMETHYLbenzodioxolylbutanamine.

    That is exactly nothing like dibutyl anything. Stupid fucking vendors being stupid.
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    #9
    Not sure it has anything to do with the vendor. A google of 'dibutylone' comes up with many sources referring to the name. Its nothing like 'benzo fury' or the lieks
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    #10
    Right, except that it is like benzofury in the sense that it is a name that has basically nothing to do with the structure. I get that the 'di' is indeed referring to two functional groups, but dibutylone is so very much not anything like dimethylbutylone as far as its chemical implications and meaning that it may as well be lumped with all the other ridiculous hype-y trade names.

    What is interesting though is that I was doing some searching on BL because I recalled that N,N-dimethyl was not a good thing for amphetamines or phenethylamines, and I discovered that while this is true, it turns out cathinones show the opposite sort of trends regarding the amine. For example, lengthening the N-chain if there's only one N substitution reduces potency and effects for amphetamines, like methyl->ethyl->propyl as far as MDMA/E/P. and an N-methyl totally destroys the activity of psychedelic phenethylamines. Likewise double N substituents like dimethyl reduce potency and make effects shittier for amphetamines, as in methamphetamine versus dimethylamphetamine.

    Yet cathinones show the opposite trends. Longer N subs seem to increase potency (compare methylone and MDPV) and disubstituting the amine seems also to increase effects, again the opposite of amps or PEAs.

    EDIT: Also it may not have to do with just one vendor being stupid as my previous statements mistakenly implied. Rather, I'm referring to vendors 'agreeing on' a term for a new drug, like having a bunch of folks selling 'benzo fury'
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    #11
    Bluelighter bob_arctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hangyourhead View Post
    Oh, so pretty much an attempt at selling butylone by making it seem like a fancy exotic RC?
    The first appearance of bk-DMBDB on the scene (at least in Scandinavia) was 4-5 years ago, and back then many people still considered butylone to be a fancy exotic RC.
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    #12
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    This is in fact stupid, but not for the reasons you think.

    First, I'll bet this appeared because butylone was a commercial failure, so some lab went back and methylated their remaining supply of butylone. Second, the N,N-dialkyl benzodioxoles were found in PiHKAL to be largely inactive, which means this is also probably a PV-like stimulant at best -- and may belong in OD. It doesn't seem to be possible to stick more than five carbons onto benzodioxole without losing all of the empathogenic potency.

    The IUPAC names cane be assigned pretty much any old way; if you're only dealing with named heterocyles, you pretty much pick an alkyl chain and name all of the substituents. There are rules for how to do this, but nobody remembers them. This particular embarrassment would be 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-dimethylaminobutan-1-one. The quaternary mess depicted further up the thread is 3-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-ylcarbonyl)-3-methylaminopentane.
    Last edited by atara; 05-08-2013 at 18:35.
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    #13
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    I collected this and immediately lost interest after.

    Personally I don't want an inferior and/or protracted butylone effect.
    Please start at the Beginners FAQ - Read the PD Rules and BLUA - Use the Psychedelic Index and/or the advanced search engine
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    #14
    Bluelighter Psyke's Avatar
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    Has anyone else tried this compound ?
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    #15
    Bluelighter Psyke's Avatar
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    Damn guess i'll be submitting one of the only reports out there on this one in a few weeks. wish me luck.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyke View Post
    Damn guess i'll be submitting one of the only reports out there on this one in a few weeks. wish me luck.
    Please do report back soon. I've actually heard a few good things about this. I know its in solid crystal form for sure. I'm hoping that this thread picks up soon because I know it's being researched by many.
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by atara View Post
    This is in fact stupid, but not for the reasons you think.

    First, I'll bet this appeared because butylone was a commercial failure, so some lab went back and methylated their remaining supply of butylone. Second, the N,N-dialkyl benzodioxoles were found in PiHKAL to be largely inactive, which means this is also probably a PV-like stimulant at best -- and may belong in OD. It doesn't seem to be possible to stick more than five carbons onto benzodioxole without losing all of the empathogenic potency.

    The IUPAC names cane be assigned pretty much any old way; if you're only dealing with named heterocyles, you pretty much pick an alkyl chain and name all of the substituents. There are rules for how to do this, but nobody remembers them. This particular embarrassment would be 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-dimethylaminobutan-1-one. The quaternary mess depicted further up the thread is 3-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-ylcarbonyl)-3-methylaminopentane.
    This is not all that surprising given that these sorts of tertiary amines are typically too sterically hindered to undergo N-demethylation via CYP 1A2 or 2D6. Unfortunately it seems the medicinal chemists employed here are not worth their salt.
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    #18
    Bluelighter ThaDudeAbides's Avatar
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    It's "stupid vendor name" is m11. YET another m1 replacement. So far I haven't seen any reports about it.

    Stick with MDMA . Atleast THAT can be tested with a kit to insure what you got is legit. This "Dibutylone" shit is probably pretty useless. Although I actually like Butylone; but it was moreish as fuck and I ended up flushing it because of it.
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    #19
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    Do you think that dibutylone would false positive for anything in a urine test out of curiosity??
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    #20
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    I believe there is a trip report on this in the TR forum... I seem to recall reading it recently.
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    #21
    Bluelighter CaptainKratom's Avatar
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    Oh so this is the "M11" I keep seeing, these vendors need to stop trying to suck off the tits of methylone and mephedrone and explore some new compounds IMO. It just seems the farther they branch out from the parent compound the shittier it gets until your left with a mild stim with nasty side-effects.
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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willlean View Post
    Do you think that dibutylone would false positive for anything in a urine test out of curiosity??
    Methylone apparently does not, dibutylone may metabolize to butylone which would be similar to methylone so I think comparing to methylone would give us the best indication we can get.
    Still, I am not 100% sure - trying to make an educated guess.

    This is not a psychedelic, it is even hardly an empathogen apparently. I'm gonna move this over to OD, since not all methcathinones are categorized with the MED forum.

    PD >> OD
    Please start at the Beginners FAQ - Read the PD Rules and BLUA - Use the Psychedelic Index and/or the advanced search engine
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    #23
    Does Anybody know if Dibuylone is available to research in the U.K?
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    #24
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    Wow just a heads up a friend of mine got landed with an absurdly large amount of this m11 instead of methylone and I could venture to say it is the shittiest rc on the market. When I say large amount I mean it went the hell around a tri city area only for the lack of information available on it tho. After it got around and had been thoroughly tested by hundreds if not thousands of human lab rats the general consensus was this... In the average user a dose of 200-300 mg's produced disappointment and often irritation over wasted finances. At 500mg 50% of test subjects got a pleasant quite mild light euphoria, and the other 50% only experienced a desire to get their money back. It was only approaching doses of around 700mg that almost all test subjects felt some Frankenstein version of a super toned down roll.


    be warned you get what you pay for it's not cheap it's bullshit.
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