I just want to chime in. I have'nt been on this site for quite a while. This site used to be my lifeline. I was here literally 24/7. looking for cures and finding hope in the stories of people that have recovered. Now Im sure you all know that people recover. I was one of those who thought i would never get better. My recovery took roughly 4-5 years. Its hard to determine when full recovery happened because im sure as you all can tell its like chopping a tree and waiting for it to grow back again. which is actually a great analogy that I will come back to later.
Let me tell you quickly about my story. Early 2009 i was introduced to raving. I went hard on it! after my first night i took 2 pills the next day i took 2 more. this happened religiously almost every other week we would go to an event and roll, averaging 3-8 pills a night. some are back to back saturday and sunday. Fucking retarded I know. This was at the dying of the PLUR renaissance. rolling was magical. The environment was magical. New years eve on 2010 i decided i cant do it anymore. I was fucked. That was the beginning of a very long fucking journey.
I had it all. HPPD, DP/DR, Anhedonia, panic attacks, anxiety, deppression, and worst of all my mind was shit. I could not comprehend shit and reading became impossible. I couldnt have a conversation with anyone because my brain couldnt process wtf was going on. 1st year was hell. I was highly suicidal, i thought i fucked myself up for good and i kept telling myself "ok, im giving myself 3 weeks, 4 weeks , 2 months to get better." Slowly but surely the symptoms started to slowly fade. I think the panic attacks lasted for 6-8 months. Fucking shit. Tunnel vission year 1, HPPD year 1/2, Dp/Dr about year 3. I remember when it was only anhedonia/apathy was left. it was still a hard battle but i knew it was gonna go away.
Heres the thing. The synapses in your prefrontal cortex that does alot of the higher functions shriveled up due to the oxidation after rolling. You are in constant fight or flight mode (adrenaline fatigue). Those branches have been chopped and those branches are essential for a healthy brain function. looking back i wouldve done things differently i wouldve recovered faster. Am i the same person as from before the LTC. sadly no but as froo froo as it sounds LTC is actually something im really grateful that happened to me. It gave me massive understanding about the brain and a deeper understanding of depression.
Heres the cure. Ever heard the term the synapse that fires together wires together? Thats what you have to do. Your brain will heal, what you have to do is guide it to best direction. if you constantly worry, your brain is going to wire that way. Meditate, i wish i did this earlier. Mindfulness meditation will help you regain control of your thoughts. I had no control of my brain when this whole thing was happening and that was the one thing that really drove me insane. Work out, i worked out daily. Every fucking day! release endorphines and induces BDNF (neuroplasticity). omega 3's. multivitamins. healthy diet. Nothing else. The brain will heal guys. you can speed it up a little bit but make sure you guide it to who you want to be. If you constantly worry then those worry wires are gonna get stronger. Keep the endgame in mind and the middle part will work itself out.
Im sorry ya'll going though this, but keep on keeping on and one day you'll look back at this as a blessing as well.
feel free to email me if you need help firstname.lastname@example.org. this community has helped me tremendously and i prolly wont alive if i didnt find bluelight.
That is a great recovery story my friend. Thank you for describing the details !
And yeh you are right. Neurons that fire together wire together....and if you don't use it, you will lose it. =P
Good luck for your future
If you were to fall in love or something I think it would speed recovery x 10
Did you have tinnitus to Ray?
The tinnitus is pretty annoying -___- even more annoying than visual snow to me. With visual snow I can be like ok whatever hey I can still see everything fine and its not a huge hindrance at all. I feel like ive gotten used to it but it flares up when im more stressed. Even then its not a huge deal.
But tinnitus....its annoying bc I had also acclimated well to this such that I only noticed at night but somehow randomly a few days ago its been an obsession . I worry if I will at least get back to my baseline where I had habituated. Thats my main worry. Other than that id say im doing alright right now.
But the good thing is a lot of people (even tjose who didnt do drugs) have tinnitus and end up adjusting to it. I was certainly one of em until recently like a week ago.
Im still frustrated about it becoming 'aware' again but I know previously my strategy was mask it out, get on with my day, then soon enough id forget about it even without something to mask it.
Cotcha--any advice for this? Other than that im mentally feeling better but I don't want to let that tinnitus bullshit drag me down. I have anxiety about not thinking about the tinnitus lol. And the more I try to force it out the more its bothering me....
Last edited by socrilus; 12-01-2017 at 02:28.
Thank you very much for your post Yar0nin. I very much appreciate that you've posted your recovery! Nice to here you are better!!
Regarding tinnitus, I don't actually mind it really, it sucks but I find it the least of my problems at the moment. Visual snow however, now that really pisses me off to the point of breakdown. It makes everything so dark and grim. Used to love dim lighted rooms as well. Anyone here reported a decrease in VS? I swear I've made a little progress, I remember it was so bad, the room looked awful when dark, there was no black it was just grey. Now it's defiantly black with hints of grey
Thats interesting lol I find VS easier to deal with. But then again my VS is just the static aspect and the blue field phenomenon is enhanced. Both of those things I don't mind too much. Dark rooms the VS is the worst cause theres so much noise but ive accepted it. It doesn't interfere with my life.
Originally Posted by HPPDOFF
Heh, don't think of a purple elephant.
Originally Posted by socrilus
Personally the tinnitus for me was pretty bothersome as I was obsessed with music and was very audio oriented, but what I've mainly noticed is that it gets louder if I listen for it while it gets quieter if I focus on other sensory genres, for example if I focus on letting my gaze relax into the back of my eyelids while paying attention to my hands and breathing.
As a caveat, I had had some tinnitus from noise induced hearing loss from before and I got it acutely regularly from loud music, jaw clenching on amphetamine/sleep deprivation, and then I also went on to work at a lumberyard with loud saws so its not like I only had experience with tinnitus from the LTC. That may have helped me a bit. That's probably analogous to an experienced psychedelic user getting HPPD vs. a drug na´ve person getting HPPD.
I never had tinnutis luckily
I did have Visual snow/hppd. That was a bitch. It was actually one of the first symptoms to go away. I would say 6-9 months till it was completely gone. Amidst all the bullshit I just realized that it wasnt there anymore.
Again just want to let you all know. Everything goes back to baseline.
Anyone out there had tinnitus go away? I have it too. Not my worst symptoms and it's lower than it was. But, still annoying.
I had tinnitus before my LTC due to moderate hearing loss in my right ear. It honestly goes away when you learn to ignore it. I only hear it when I'm actively thinking about it, otherwise I don't notice it. Just learn to accept it and in time you will no longer notice it.
Originally Posted by fnono33
Agreed--ive had the tinnitus for a while now in the LTC but I was ignoring it for the most part.
Originally Posted by PillsAndKills
Then due to some stress I developed the OCD obsession with it and I can't stop myself from obsessing and checking for it. Its been a whole week with this debilitating obsession when I would otherwise feel ok (no depression, etc) if I didn't have the obsession. So that in itself makes me extremely pissed that I un-habituated to it literally in the span of a day or two from stress when I became hyperaware and its taking way longer to re habituate. Theres the typical rumination about having gotten my obsession about it in the first place. And ive been trying to "not think" about it and refocus my attention with CBT+mindfulness but that makes me keep thinking about it.
Idk how to get rid of my obsession really quickly. Of course it will probably resolve eventually but I get so anxious about when it will resolve. Its bad enough such that in fact when I notice im *not* obsessing about it I start obsessing about it. And the issue is it feels completely out of my control it just automatically happens. I really don't feel I have control over my mind when its doing this and I want my control back.
During ww1 they used to just put patients to sleep for weeks at a time to cure ptsd. I wonder if that would work for us.
I completely empathise with you obsessing over it. I was obsessing over every symptom I was getting for the first few months and my mind would race to all sorts of conclusions. Thats anxiety for you.
My advice would be to focus on treating your anxiety and understanding that you are fine. Then you will be able to learn to ignore tinnitus and/or any other symptoms you are getting. Thats what worked for me, it feels easy saying it now because I remember when I was in that obsessive thinking pattern and it fucking sucks. But it will improve in time I guarantee you that.
I don't thint that putting people into artificial sleep for weeks (which causes heavy distribution of neurotransmitter systems) is a good idea. Remember that Insulin coma therapy and lobotomy were also famous "curing" methods even into the 60s.
Originally Posted by fnono33
Nowadays medical marijuana is common in the US for war veterans with PTSD, maybe someone here tried mild weed with low THC content for their symptoms?
The most people here say that they make bad experiences with weed, but I think medical marijuana may be another thing than regular weed.
I think at least it may could help coping the psychological symptoms? Anyone with experiences?
I have constant tinnitus which is obviously worse when trying to go to sleep in a quiet room. I've found pink noise really helps. Search pink noise on youtube and there's a 10hr loop of it. I play this through my phone and leave it running all night on a low volume on the bedside table. It cancels out the crazy high frequencies of tinnitus which drive you insane.
I mean I was ignoring them fine before so I'm not sure what happened and if the actual noise increased or whether my anxiety decided that it was time to latch onto this.
Originally Posted by PillsAndKills
Anyways the Klonopin seems to help with the tinnitus but I don't know if this is because it reduces my anxiety or whether its because its reducing the noise directly or both.
And if Klonopin helps this is that a good sign that when my anxiety dissapates that ill get the same effect?
I'm hoping that its louder because of anxiety and not louder because it actually got worse for some reason cause at least the anxiety part of it is treatable but I don't want to rely on a benzo.
But im so scared of other stuff cause I don't want to make this or anything else like sex drive worse
I wouldn't be surprised if this helps with HPPD, but I think weeks would be a bit too much. There are residual effects to general anesthesia that can last a couple days in multi-hour surgeries (this is especially noted to last weeks to months in the elderly), and the brain might rebound to some degree. But I think a 2-3 days of anesthesia would be interesting to try to let the brain reset.
Originally Posted by fnono33
The effect could be similar to taking a mood stabilizer like a sodium channel antagonist (lamotrigine caused a rapid remittance of HPPD in a patient for example).
So few sucess stories, I'm starting to get very unmotivated.
@cotcha: Does the serotonin metabolism in the brain really turn to normal after 2-3 years? Because I realized when I take 5-HTP for a few days now my remained symptoms disappear fully, that's why I'm curious how long it takes until the serotonin metabolism normalizes.
5-HTP affects more than just serotonin. I think it also has an impact on cortisol and dopamine levels. 5-HT 1A is one of the intersection points between serotonin and cortisol I think.
If you do poorly on SSRIs or 5-HTP is that due to the impact on dopamine or cortisol levels? Like if 5-HTP leads to a bad reaction could that be due to it lowering dopamine?
I think there are a lot of success stories but unfortunately we just tend to hear from people still in the recovery phase. People do drop in every now and then to tell us how they're getting on and those stories are indeed encouraging but I think most people just move on.
@Amml: When you say serotonin metabolism, do you mean uptake by serotonin transporters? Serotonin transporter levels can take some time to return to normal in ex-MDMA users but abstinence is really important in that regard. Metabolism by MAO and IDO I'm not too sure about. But the answers as to why 5-HTP helped you don't necessarily have anything to do with an issue with 5-HT metabolism, it could be giving you a similar effect as an SSRI. I personally think 5-HTP could be passing into the brain appreciably.
@socrilus: When you first administer SSRIs to animals the firing rate of the serotonin neurons in cortex actually drops at first because of homeostatic inhibitory processes mediated by autoreceptors like 5-HT1A, this is going to have a far reaching effect on the network of the brain and I don't know if I would tunnel-vision on a particular neurotransmitter or hormone. Its probably more important to consider how the different neurons/brain structures are communicating with each other, for example consider modulation of neural oscillations by serotonin transporter alterations -> serotonin receptor alterations.
5-HT1A modulates neural oscillations such as theta frequency connectivity between an area called the mPFC and the amygdala. Theta connectivity between the mPFC and amygdala is altered in scenarios with a possible relevance to some MDMA adverse effects sufferers. The scenarios are serotonin transporter knockout mice and neuroimaging studies in humans with a short allele of a serotonin transporter gene called 5-HTTLPR. Mind you the short allele is associated with increased adverse effects after acute tryptophan depletion and MDMA abuse, and increased risk of developing depression after stress.
Having a short allele at 5-HTTLPR is associated with a lower level of expression of the serotonin transporter. There is thought to be a desensitization of serotonin receptors when this decreased serotonin clearance (due to hypo-expression of the serotonin transporter because of having a short allele) happens during a developmental stage. But the thing is that 5-HT1A is expressed presynaptically as an inhibitory autoreceptor that shuts off neurons, and postsynaptically as a heteroceptor.
It is thought with SSRIs that it takes some time for the 5-HT1A autoreceptors to desensitize while the 5-HT1A heteroceptors sensitize and upregulate with chronic SSRI use. So in other words, the acute reaction to SSRIs could be very different than the chronic reaction, and this could be modulated further by individual factors, such as where you are in terms of recovering normal SERT/receptor expression after MDMA use, whatever your SERT expression was in the first place (due to variation at 5-HTTLPR), and what is going on with your serotonin system (ie dorsal raphe nucleus) and your mPFC/amygdala. Serotonin is modulating these theta rhythms through receptors like 5-HT1A, but its not incredibly clear cut.
Last edited by Cotcha Yankinov; 17-01-2017 at 03:41.
Hey. I am/was an LTC-sufferer from Sweden. I have been silently reading (guess I'm not the only one) this thread since July. That's when I had a weekend of too much MDMA, amphetamines, weed and alcohol at a festivale.
It was my fourth time taking Molly and this time I decided to go hard, like some of my friends. My dosage the previous times have been around 110 mg - 150 mg but this time I did 200 mg + 100 mg an hour later.
It was too much for my body/brain to handle. I couldn't stand up, couldn't talk properly, my body temperature was really high, throwing up etc. On top of that I didn't drink any water. Don't ask me why but while peaking on Molly I smoked an entire joint which made me have a full blown psychedelic trip. The festivale site were transformed to a beach, to a war zone. And my friends were transformed to clowns and other crazy shit. I also had auditory hallucinations as I heard hundreds of people/voices singing Yellow Submarine by the Beatles. I think it safe to say I took too much MDMA.
The next day I was shaken by the experience but tried not to give it too much attention. And beeing the stereotypical youngster I followed the lead of my friends. The entire next day we did dextroamphetamine and alcohol (still having trouble processing how neurotoxic this must have been considering I had done too much Molly the night before). The last day of the festivale I drank lots of alcohol and smoked weed.
Coming home from the festivale I wasn't feeling to bad. Despite too much drugs and lack water, food and sleep. The next day though, that's then hell broke loose.
I had enormously anxiety, depressed like I had lost all my friends, derealisation, depersonalizemation, massive brain fog. In the following weeks I would develop some visual disturbances as well. I got after images, a visual field full of transparent dots and halos around objects. I have always been an anxious person and I have had panic attacks all my life so I could moderately handle these symptoms, but the DR/DP/Brain fog was to intense for me to handle.
The following three months I was suicidal. I had seen plenty of doctors but they were all telling me I was physically fine. I went from having loads of friends to hardly see anyone of them anymore.
I asked my doctor for benzodiazepines but since it's basically impossible getting it here in Sweden I was declined. Since I felt clinically suicidal I felt I had no choice but asking my former
dealer for some klonazepamt. This was seriously my life saver and made it possible for me to have a social life again.
That's when I noticed some small reliefs of my symptoms. I ordered some fish oil, magnesium, zinc and vitamins B, C, D. I also started eating five meals a day and doing some cardio. Little by little, symptoms started to get smaller and smaller.
By the fourth month my derealization and brain fog were basically gone. I also switched from klonazepam to diazepam.
Fast forwarding another two months. The depersonalization is almost gone, the anxiety is at the level as it was before this ordeal starting. I haven't taken a benzo for three weeks and my friends all say I'm more talkative and happier than ever. I'm still feeling tired pretty much all the time but I don't see this as a symptom of LTC. I just see it as a symptom of tiredness. I also have some bad after images left but I don't pay any attention to them anymore.
I have been feeling like this for the last three weeks so I'm not sure I dare to say it's a success story yet, but it's at least a positive story.
I think a long term comedown is when the drugs mess with your stress hormones. How long it will take to heal is probably completely individual.
One think I would like to add is the concept and the idealizing of the former self, as a lot of you measure your health by saying "I'm feeling like 60% of my former self". I can only speak for my self but pre this LTC I was a lazy, anxious, insecure and sometimes rude person and my mood and behavior wasn't constant, if you know what I mean. I am not 100% percent like my former self now but I'm happy and in the end that's all that matters. This ordeal has made me more thankful for my friends and family. As I said, I'm not 100% like
my former self. I am a happier and a better person now.
Just hoping the next three weeks will be as good as the last for me now. And I'm absolutely sure you'll be fine as well.
And oh, sorry if my English is poor.
Best of wishes!
Edit: I wouldn't say benzodiazepines pshycially helped me. They just made me endure the time it took for my brain to "heal". They secondarily helped me as I could spend precious time with my friends.