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Thread: Phenibut - 10 Years Experience - A Comprehensive Long-Term Synopsis and Usage Guide

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    #26
    Greenlighter SamS1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vacuole View Post
    ^ I was about to ask the same question. Have you gone so much as one day without Phenibut? Two?

    I agree when you say we must each be responsible for our own usage and what helps us stay healthy and productive, but I think we also need to be honest with ourselves about the sustainability of our lifestyle choices, especially when faced with the prospect of going without the substances in question. Not just the physiological effects, which are (very) important to keep in mind, but the excuses we make to ourselves and the responsibility we are or aren't taking with our lifestyle choices.

    vacuole
    Actually, I did stop about 3 weeks ago well actually 25 days ago after stumbling across Bluelight (great community, by the way, wish I had found you earlier.) and reading the threads concerning phenibut. I decided not to do a taper to assess how bad the wds would be for me thinking I could always dose if the need arose. It was no worse than Monday morning after a weekend of drinking back in college. Other than the sleep disruption which was bad. On night 2 I did take an Ambien as I had an early morning meeting the following day and could not afford to be less than 100 percent.
    I have read the wd's some people have had here, my heart goes out to them. for whatever reason, it did not affect me in that way. I will report back with any changes.
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    #27
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    Yeah I don't get much for withdrawals either, more than you, but it's just anxiety for me. I have read about some people experiencing GHB-like withdrawal, very severe and dangerous. Not sure why it would be different for some.
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    #28
    Greenlighter SamS1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorkoth View Post
    Yeah I don't get much for withdrawals either, more than you, but it's just anxiety for me. I have read about some people experiencing GHB-like withdrawal, very severe and dangerous. Not sure why it would be different for some.
    All of our Biochemical make up, while very similar, is different enough to make life interesting that is certain. Also, Phenibut is a substance well know for individuals wide-ranging responses.
    Last edited by SamS1977; 22-10-2016 at 21:23. Reason: lol spelling error
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    #29
    Great post, Xorkoth!

    Have your ever tried it with microdosing lysergamides (10-20 mcg)? Best combo ever.
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    Thanks for the heads-up. 
    #30
    Greenlighter SamS1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustRun View Post
    Great post, Xorkoth!

    Have your ever tried it with microdosing lysergamides (10-20 mcg)? Best combo ever.
    JustRun

    Thanks for the heads-up. No, I was not aware of lysergamides until you mentioned it now, I will do my research and explore it as an option. I have just discovered Noopept and it seems to be the best cognitive enhancers I have found thus far. I have been using it stand alone 100mg x2 or 3 daily sublingually, It is fantastic I stay focused and my attention to detail is beyond belief, without becoming hung up on the minutia. I am reading a couple of whitepapers concern the benefits of stacking the two. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks, Everyone!
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    #31
    Bluelighter Vastness's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this Xorkoth, this is very interesting, I do like Phenibut and have been using it for a year or so, on and off (not every day, just a few days here and there ).

    I notice that a lot of people find Phenibut a very pro-social substance. For me however, as much as I do like Phenibut, and I do find it anxiolytic it is not particularly pro-social. In fact in some ways it can be a little anti-social because it makes me too content to just chill without much inclination to do anything else. It is worth noting probably that I am naturally a little anti-social, but as I am usually quite aware of this tendency I make a conscious effort to push myself to engage in social interactions. Phenibut to some extent removes this desire... in fact although this is not always the case, I have on a few occasions felt that, paradoxically, Phenibut is actually a little anxiogenic because while it makes me very content to keep doing familiar things, with familiar people, it can sometimes actually give me an aversion to seeking out new and less familiar experiences.

    All that said, in the event that I am thrust into such a new experience anyway, or manage to overcome the Phenibutic blissful lethargy, I am undoutedly more relaxed than usual, BUT socially, again, I sometimes find I am a little TOO relaxed and just not too inclined to either engage or make too much of an effort... this could be a dosage issue of course.

    As far as dosage goes, I usually dose around 1500-2200mg, once per day. My experience with the effects is a little different also, I find...
    0 - 1 hour: Nothing
    1 - 3 or 4 hours: Mild but noticeable relaxation, anxiolysis
    3 or 4 - 12 or so hours: The good effects
    While I do get the first 2 parts, the last part is typically a gradual fade. In fact I even get something of an immediate comedown at around the 7-8 hour mark, where again, I suddenly feel markedly less social and pretty tired and uninterested in whatever is going on, even a little irritable. I can't be sure if this is simply a return to baseline (I am, perhaps a little more anxious than average anyway) or exacerbated by the palpable contrast between feeling more relaxed previously, but regardess, I have experienced it enough times to know it feels like a comedown. I can sometimes ignore the "down" type feelings, and I definitely still sleep better afterwards, but the "good effects" for me are the first 6 hours or so.


    Perhaps I am expecting too much from the substance though. I am, I have thought in the past, a little prone to feeling any drug begin to wear off. Perhaps this is a symptom of not properly relaxing into the experience, but I like to be able to look inside myself and still FEEL an effect, and so when I notice this lessening I think it prompts an anxiety response of some kind.

    Strangely I find Aniracetam highly pro-social in a way that Phenibut isn't but the duration of Aniracetam is short enough to be mostly useless. This is another issue I have with a lot of drugs that can be used while going about daily life... in a standard recreational setting, redosing occasionally is not an issue, but while going about the world it is inconvenient to have to redose too often. This is one of the reasons I like modafinil I think, it lasts literally all day.

    Anyway coming back to Phenibut, I don't know if anyone has seen this yet but over on another forum someone posted a translation of the original Russian literature and dosage information. There is some interesting stuff there, including the fact that it is prescribed to children in Russia on occasion. I don't know what the clinical trial and approval process is like in Russia but Phenibut appears to be potentially, a fairly versatile medicine. The dosage information is also of interest:

    DIRECTIONS FOR USE

    To be taken by mouth, after a meal.
    Adults are prescribed 250-500 mg 3 times a day. If the treatment necessitates a higher dose it can be increased to a maximum of 2500 mg (a day).
    Children under 3 years of age are prescribed 50-100 mg, 3 times daily. Children between ages of 8 and 14 are prescribed 250 mg, 3 times daily.
    Maximal single dose (!)
    Adults – 750 mg, elderly patients (60 y.o. or older), - 500 mg, children under 8 – 150 mg, children 8-14 y.o. – 250 mg.

    For management of alcohol abstinence symptoms, in the first days of treatment the dose should be 250-500 mg 3 times during the day, with additional 750 mg before bed. The dose must however be gradually lowered to maximum adult daily amount during the course of treatment.

    For management of Meniere’s disease:
    During flare ups: 750 mg 3-4 times every 24 hours. To be continued for a period of 5-7 days. As vestibular disturbance symptoms begin to subside, - 250-500 mg every 24 hours during the course of 5-7 days and finally tapered to 250 mg once every 24 hours, and administered for another 7-10 days.

    Treatment of dizziness caused by dysfunction of vestibular analyzer of vascular or trauma related origin, - 250 mg 3 times every 24 hours. Continue taking over the course of 12 days

    For prophylaxis of motion sickness: 250-500 mg, to be taken once, 1 hour before the planned trip. (Effectiveness is dose-dependent).
    It would seem from this that Phenibut is really intended to be dosed multiple times per day. Based on this information, today I dosed 750mg x2 per day. I noticed I did not get such an intense feeling of wellbeing as with higher dosages, BUT I could still feel around the 8 hour mark that I needed to redose because I could feel the comedown setting in. I think I will try playing with the dosing a little more, I believe it is a possibility that it is more sustainable with doses closer to the actual prescription dosages.



    Also, one minor note of caution for heavier users:
    OVERDOSE

    Symptoms: pronounced lethargy, nausea, vomiting, fatty dystrophy of liver (when taken in excess of 7 grams), eosinophilia, low arterial blood pressure, kidney dysfunction.

    Treatment: Gastric lavage, activated charcoal, symptomatic treatment.
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    #32
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    Thanks for the additional info from the Russian medical source, that's really interesting. I can confirm that it feels hard on my organs when I have taken too much.

    Interesting that you get some different effects, I have read of others who experience it differently too. For me it's more pro-social than amphetamine, on the higher end of the full dose range I find myself almost uncontrollably talking to people, it feels amazing to converse. It sounds like you don't get the stimulating effects from it at all, to me that's the heart of phenibut, if it was just relaxing I doubt I'd use it much. It almost feels like a dopamine rebound or something, I don't remember if I speculated on that in the report or not but it's a guess of mine. GHB is known to produce a dopamine rebound, in fact it was why it was marketed to bodybuilders, the idea was to take it before bed, sleep well, and when you wake up you're surging with dopamine and ready to work out. I wonder if a similar thing is happening with phenibut, and maybe it doesn't happen for some people?

    But yeah, rather than making me feel lethargic or sedated, I find phenibut to be extremely motivating. It makes it easier to do everything and I have a lot of inspiration in the things I'm doing. Everything feels pretty effortless compared to normal.
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    #33
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    I think you are right, I don't get the dopamine rush... From your description there is definitely an element of the experience lacking for me.

    I mean don't get me wrong, it is a nice lethargy and sedation, better than alcohol for example. I have had good results combining Phenibut with dopaminergic compounds also (Tianeptine, Phenylpiracetam, Armodafinil) but even then I still get the suddenly perceptible onset of the fade where, apparently, yourself and others feel some of the sedation subsiding and the dopamine kicking in.

    It may be relevant that I take 1mg L-Deprenyl daily, this is a preventative treatment for a medical condition I have so I am going to continue doing this, but I do cycle it occasionally so maybe I will try dosing when I am not taking it. From my understanding this should increase my serum dopamine rather than decrease it but perhaps there is some unexpected interaction going on... I feel like I probably have dosed already while not-taking L-Deprenyl without any significant difference in the course of the effects and simply forgotten, but I wasn't specifically looking for anything so I can't be totally sure.

    I can't think of any other reason my dopamine system would be operating differently, I haven't ever abused any dopaminergics. I would be very interested to hear if anyone else has a similar experience to myself.
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    #34
    Xor bro never would have taken you for a Phenibut user. Wow. Going to have to read this later this is too much to handle at present.

    Dude, Phenibut was the most intense chemical I ever put into my body and I have taken copious amounts of psychedelics that would have mentally ruined most people.
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    #35
    I was not a responsible user and at one point actually thought I had been transported to some alternate dimension, living on an alien planet called Phenibut.

    I shit you not. Will elaborate later. I was living amidst a horde of Phenibut addicts in a house once upon a time.......
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    #36
    Greenlighter SamS1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Kramer View Post
    I was not a responsible user and at one point actually thought I had been transported to some alternate dimension, living on an alien planet called Phenibut.

    I shit you not. Will elaborate later. I was living amidst a horde of Phenibut addicts in a house once upon a time.......
    Personally, I can not wait until the first installment of "Phenibut Planet" Post it soon!
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    "Stacking" Phenibut, L-theanine , Oleamide, and Noopept? 
    #37
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    I am sorry if this is placed incorrectly. Has anyone else "stacked" Phenibut, L-theanine , Oleamide, and Noopept? If so would you mind sharing your results Thanks
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    #38
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    Thank you for this Xorkoth, fantastic content.
    My questions is, I am currently taking gabapentin 600 mg 4 times a day, and it's starting to get a tad expensive without having insurance.
    Do you suggest switching to phenibut? If so, what mg dose would you suggest?
    Thank you!
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    #39
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    It seems like it would probably fulfill a similar purpose, but it also depends on what it's prescribed for. I'm not sure if phenibut will fulfill all the same functions as gabapentin. It will certainly accomplish the mood altering and anxiolytic effects of gabapentin. As for dose, I'd just follow the guidelines in this report. Work up to find your dose, there may be some cross-tolerance but I'm not sure if there is.
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    #40
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    Thank you for typing this out, Xorkoth. I haven't logged into my account in years, but I've lurked a lot of the phenibut threads, and I'm always interested in reading your experiences with this weird and wondrous substance.

    Personally, I've combined it with most substances, and the only things I can think to add to your already comprehensive guide are its synergy with opiates. I worried it may carry the same dangers benzo/alcohol combinations have with opiates; however, as far as I can tell, phenibut does not produce CNS depression. It does however add quite a punch to any full opiate agonist. I don't usually nod on any opiates, but accompanied with an already irresponsible phenibut dosage I was looking bad, but feeling prettty great.

    Recently, I used phenibut and kratom during an LSD trip in the woods by myself to great result. All of the anxiety I experience on a come-up was nowhere to be seen, and my mood was balanced and my thoughts controlled yet exploratory throughout. I experience ugly comedowns occasionally, so I loaded a few grams of gabapentin at hour six of the trip and experienced some of the most profound and actively fun euphoria in my life. Unfortunately, I can't attribute that all to the phenibut, but it was almost certainly all gabba b action.

    Anyway, glad to log back in to pay some respects and express my gratitude
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    #41
    This was an awesome post! On the overdosing part of post, I don't experience any of that personally. For me, after around 3 grams, the effects pretty much remain the same (I've gone up to almost 5 grams). Interesting how subjective the effects of phenibut are.
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    #42
    Thanks for this very thorough write-up!

    Lately I've been on a kick for experimenting with mild, functional psychoactives that I can use for work, socializing, and general enhancement of happy busy-bee buzzing. Phenibut sounds like it could perfectly fit the bill -- I have ordered some, and am really looking forward to trying it, especially since I thoroughly enjoyed the other GABAergic drugs I've tried.
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    #43
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    Have you ever tried any gabapentinoids? Those would include gabapentin and pregabalin, I think baclofen also. They're quite different from other GABA drugs, in my experience. I like them better, but they work in a different, kind of more subtle way. I hope you enjoy.
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    #44
    Anybody have any idea on the withdrawal symptoms facing me after ~7 days of consecutive use at about 2 grams a day? I know, not smart but I have no impulse control with GABA-ergic drugs, I'm gonna go cold-turkey, can't believe I've been this stupid. Also would Gabapentin help at all? It's already turned on me, causing me to want to redose halfway through the day and feeling terrible after the redose. Kudos to you Xorkoth for your self control, I've had a xanax addiction before and this was just too good.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorkoth View Post
    Have you ever tried any gabapentinoids? Those would include gabapentin and pregabalin, I think baclofen also. They're quite different from other GABA drugs, in my experience. I like them better, but they work in a different, kind of more subtle way. I hope you enjoy.
    Yes, I loved pregabalin. Far from being a simple CNS depressant, it had enough complexity to stray into the territory of dissociative, or empathogen. I've always been partial to chemicals that have a bit of a swirly side.
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    #46
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    ^ I find phenibut to be a lot like pregabalin, except not as intense. It feels less like a drug, more natural. But the same sort of state.

    Anybody have any idea on the withdrawal symptoms facing me after ~7 days of consecutive use at about 2 grams a day? I know, not smart but I have no impulse control with GABA-ergic drugs, I'm gonna go cold-turkey, can't believe I've been this stupid. Also would Gabapentin help at all? It's already turned on me, causing me to want to redose halfway through the day and feeling terrible after the redose. Kudos to you Xorkoth for your self control, I've had a xanax addiction before and this was just too good.
    Was it just 7 days, and no habit before then? If so, and you react to it like me, you'll probably be fine, I used to take it for more than a week in a row when withdrawing from opiates, seems like, for me anyway, this takes a good bit of time to develop physical tolerance.
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    #47
    Thanks for the answer Xorkoth, and yep no habit before then. It's been a good 24 hours or so and still nothing, i was just scared, read so many horror stories of "I used Phenibut for only 2 days in a row and STILL had w/d symptoms!"
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    #48
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    Yeah some people seem to respond to it like that. A guy I know hates it because he says he gets incredibly severe withdrawals from it really quickly. For me the withdrawals only have ever consisted of anxiety and they take a while to form.
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    #49
    Well went back to it, but sticking to dosing till about 1 or 2 in the afternoon. The "afterglow" seems to last that long into the next day, and there is no need to redose when taken that late in the day.
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    #50
    Being originally from Russia Ive taken it prescribed in the past - the quality of Russian or Latvian made pills felt better than the generic powder you buy online although I was younger and less drug spoiled back then too!
    Russia has always had LOTS of GABAergic drugs and huge problems with their abuse (alcohol, butyrates, various prescribed meds), so I suppose Phenibut was developed mostly to help with such addictions.

    Phenibut metabolizes almost entirely by liver and leaving the body through kidneys, and I'd say a word of caution to those with liver/kidneys problems, especially when mixing it with alcohol. I have been infected with hepatitis A and B through tap water when was a little kid and nowadays I feel compounds that are taxing to liver. Phenibut feels less taxing than alcohol but only if I dont go over a gram.

    I take it occasionally, 2-3 times a week, sometimes less. Goes very well with psychedelics in a lower dosages, like 300-600mg, goes extremely well with dopaminergic stims, Ive tried it with amphetamine sulphate, modafinil, methiopropamine, 3-FPM with up to a gram of Phenibut resulting in a very euphoric synergy and a greater stimulation.
    Stacks very well with most nootropics and herbal extracts I've tried, in particular Noopept (even though first high dosages of Noopept may feel euphoric I recommend it to be daily 20-30mg and cycled weekly or monthly), Phenylpiracetam, Agmatine, N-Acetyl L-carnitine (NAC), Kava, Valerian root and Ashwagandha extracts, Kratom, 5-HTP and L-Theanine (don't recommend going over 200mg of L-Theanine - causes muscle tightness for me) and it is good in combination with Picamilon (50-100mg) imo, yeilding better energy and focus. Goes as an enhancer to alcoholic drinks and opioid drugs - even 500-600mg on top of couple of beers or your typical oxycodone/hydrocodone dose would be quite noticeable, especially with low GABA receptors tolerance. Also increases stoning effects of cannabis, especially strong in about 2-3 hours after taking Phenibut.
    About 300mg was a nice smoothing addition to Amanita Muscaria mushrooms as well, knowing that muscimol (main psychoactive component) acts through GABA receptors but I'd be careful with increasing Phenibut dosage with this mushroom - really hard to measure the right dosage by taking caps or even the tea, so better stay safe!

    My girlfriend who is very much drawn to GABAergic drugs told me that after awhile of taking Phenibut, it causes some violent and/or weird dreams, but I haven't been taking so much of it to notice it.

    All in all, I always keep stock of at least a pound of Phenibut (I encapsulate it using a capsule machine in caps of 500 and 300mg for further easier usage) for myself and those around me in need of it! Thanks for the great thread!
    Last edited by Volsam; 04-12-2016 at 06:08.
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