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Thread: Phenibut - 10 Years Experience - A Comprehensive Long-Term Synopsis and Usage Guide

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    #76
    Bluelighter LucidSDreamr's Avatar
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    it was a good read because i've been trying to figure this drug out. I usually take it early evening so it will help me sleep by the time it kicks in.

    if i take more than 1200mg, i have that nauseous felling of malaise all the next day. lower than that and I seem to avoid it, but sometimes its there anyways.

    since i take at night, I get the euphoria the next morning when i wake up. I should try taking it in the morning sometime like you do and see how that goes.
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    #77
    Bluelighter MDPV_Psychosis's Avatar
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    I didn't get what all the fuss was about until I tried taking it in the morning. 5-6 hours after dosing is when it was best for me, so the times before I was always asleep by the point.
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    #78
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    Took 2 grams out of desperation (for benzo withdrawals even though i'm tapering) a week ago and got a full 9 hours sleep and woke up feeling amazing. Found it took 3hours to kick in with an empty stomach. I took a herbal mix with it including St. John's Wort. Dunno if that made a difference. I then took it again on alternating nights and slept better both nights but not as good as that first night. Not sure if tolerance builds extremely rapidly or if it was because i mixed with st johns wort the first time. Possibly a bit of both.

    I have decided not to take my last 2 grams as I do not want to risk it affecting my benzo withdrawal and taper, even though it doesn't appear to effect it at these 2 gram doses or bring on any withdrawals of it's own. I am not risking it. I know it supposedly only effects GABA-B and dopamine but the literature says it might effect GABA-A which is the receptor i've fucked up....So perhaps too big of a risk at the moment. Swapping one addiction with another is just a terrible thing to end up doing.
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    #79
    This is such an excellent read, Xorkoth! I had no knowledge of Phenibut prior to reading this post (other than seeing it listed on some bodybuilding sites).
    This is such a perfectly written summary, well-structured, and addressed all my questions as it drew in my interest.

    The "sweet spot" (or proper, personal dose) of Phenibut sounds like it provides the "feeling" I've been chasing through every single drug, my entire life. It almost sounds like the perfect "roll," without the uncomfortable amphetamine-like qualities. I have lived through a long-term dependence on opiates, which was spawned by the sense of "utter confidence" opiates allowed me, at first. It sounds like Phenibut can provide this in a much less intoxicating fashion, which is EXTREMELY appealing.

    However, it is that supreme appeal that makes me feel a little hesitant to explore Phenibut. If it provides me with all the benefits/enhancements you experience, I don't see how I could ever let it go! Had you ever noticed Phenibut inducing some degree of self-knowledge (like a psychedelic), but a form of insight that lasts beyond the "high" (for lack of a better term), and informs your behavior / elevates your confidence, without Phenibut?

    Also you mentioned how Phenibut may interact with various drugs - but what about good old marijuana?

    Thanks!

    Aaron Dank
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    #80
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    Hey there, thanks. I would say that the only effect that phenibut has beyond its effects is of the same nature by which anything can have that effect. That is, by feeling a boost of self-confidence or social confidence or whatever, you have now felt that and are able to experience it and gain more confidence simply because of experiencing it. So then, ideally afterwards you would retain some benefit. That's really similar to how psychedelics work too really, it's like, if you get there, you've been there, so you can perhaps make use of that experience to inform your future perceptions. Phenibut has probably provided some of this for me, though I'll also say that when I was much younger alcohol actually helped me to become more socially confident in a permanent way too, so it's not a property unique to phenibut nor is phenibut really special in that regard. I would say psychedelics have provided me far more utility in terms of long-term benefits to my life experience. But like I said in the report, I do think phenibut could be a good candidate for a transparent, non-threatening psychotherapy tool to aid in opening up emotionally. Just like how MDMA is starting to be used for this, but less extreme. Through increased openness and focused effort, I think people could gain long-term benefits as a result of working through issues with the help of phenibut.

    Phenibut definitely has a draw for me, but it is not in the same league as opiates. I will say I am reducing now and I am going to take a good break from it, as I am starting to feel some weird body pains and I have the feeling that years of every other day phenibut use without breaks are not good for your health. I think it's best used sparingly. Using it up to every other day for periods of time where it provides benefit seems great, but I have been using it for longer at a time than I should, I have been feeling recently.

    So yeah there is some interaction with addictive personality stuff, but not even close to the same sort of level as opiates.

    Phenibut reacts with marijuana the same as it does with basically everything... it just provides a base level of anxiolysis and euphoria, which the other drug then rests on top of. So marijuana's positive effects are more emphasized, paranoia and anxiety are a lot less likely, but it doesn't change the nature of the drug.
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    #81
    Bluelighter LucidSDreamr's Avatar
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    I always seem to get a feeling of malaise...kind of like nauseau but not really. even with the good part of the high. It lasts almost all day too. Its enough to keep me from taken doses high enough to actually get high off of
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    #82
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    Great information Xorkoth, thank you.

    Does anyone have any information about Phenibut and drug testing? What kind of drug is it even? Is it tested for and could it cause a false positive for something else?

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.
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    #83
    Quote Originally Posted by beezo777 View Post
    Does anyone have any information about Phenibut and drug testing? Is it tested for and could it cause a false positive for something else?
    ^^^
    These questions are not allowed here as far as I know... Although I do know a lot of people who have used Phenibut during UA's tests and never had any problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by beezo777 View Post
    What kind of drug is it even?
    ^^^ Phenibut is a gamma amino-butyric acid with phenyl ring attached to it to make it pass through blood-brain barrier, this addition makes the molecule to have phenethylamine structure in it, in part causing stimulation and irritability with higher dosages.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    People! Let's use Phenibut cautiously and responsibly so we won't have to face an FDA ban on it... Sadly it's slowly being pushed that way and the reason behind I think is that there are cases of abuse and addiction that are being documented by haters and it makes distributors to go "grey" and underground with Phenibut and makes others to sell crappier material simply because it's popular nowadays among kids to get high on it.
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    #84
    [QUOTE = beezo777]
    What kind of drug is it even?
    ^^^ Phenibut is a gamma amino-butyric acid with phenyl ring attached to it to make it pass through blood-brain barrier, this addition makes the molecule to have phenethylamine structure in it, in part causing

    Phenibut had the same structure of baclofen (lacking only a chlorine atom in the para-position of the phenyl group) and includes the phenlethylamine structure. Pregabalin (lyrica) has instead the phenyl group substituted with the isobutyl group. (I think...)

    Quote Originally Posted by noone1 View Post
    It's okay. The music enhancing effects are underrated especially since you have to go out of your way to listen to music for it to work.

    It's a very useful drug for getting off other drugs like alcohol or opiates.
    Music is incredible on phenibut. I was listening to one of my favorite bands (the Avett brothers) and I could literally hear every instrument being played individually. The guitar, cello, violin, piano and double bass. Made me love their music even more ❤️
    Last edited by MocCozmiK; 12-03-2017 at 14:33.
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    #85
    I guess I have not found the sweet spot either. But this is only my second try. I have terrible insomnia and have been on ambien for years. I'd love to get off of the ambien and have tapered myself down to 5mg every other night. On the nights I don't take it I get no sleep, however. Decided to try phenibut, which I came across while browsing my favorite Kratom vendor. First time I dosed at 4pm with 500mg and redosed at 10pm because I still felt nothing and really needed to sleep. Finally got to sleep around 2am. After being awakened by my husband getting ready for work, went back to sleep and slept WONDERFULLY...and unfortunately all day. Lol woke up at 5 pm having a "WHAT YEAR IS IT??!" Moment. ��

    Tonight was my second attempt. 1.5g around 4pm. And nothing yet as you can see, I am lurking with you lovely people at 1:30am.

    Guess It isn't working well for me due to the long-term ambien use. Which is unfortunate. I work in the medical field and know the long term effects of ambien suck, even though they aren't all that well-known yet. Anyway- I'd love to get off the stuff.

    My next attempt I'll try 2g and maybe take it earlier around 2? Open for any feedback or suggestions. I envy those who can sleep any time and anywhere. This sorcery alludes me.
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    #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutedecho View Post
    My next attempt I'll try 2g and maybe take it earlier around 2? Open for any feedback or suggestions. I envy those who can sleep any time and anywhere. This sorcery alludes me.
    ^^^
    I'd recommend taking no more than a gram per day (to avoid unnecessary stimulation and side effects), take it in the first half of the day. Supplementing Phenibut with about 500mg of Agmatine yields even better results of analgesia, disinhibition and mood improvement IME. High quality extracts of Valerian roots, Lemon Balm and Scullcap seem pretty promising in conjunction with Phenibut, and so is Picamilon, another GABA-derivative, - my GF devours them all

    IMO ability to sleep is somewhat similar to the ability to concentrate your attention on something for a prolonged period of time. I've been pondering the problem of ADD/ADHD and sleep disorder of my girlfriend and I'm coming to conclusion that the metabolic rate of conversion of dopamine into epinephrine and norepinephrine might play a role here.
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    #87
    Amazing post. Almost makes me want to try it.. as for hypomania, I get that for free
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    #88
    Bluelighter The Hypnotist's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff. I tried it yesterday for first time. 500mg didn't do much just some kind of false onset. Then I went for 1.2gr more at +7h with a large amount of vitamin C as I read the stomach needs to be acidic for best absorption... and the rest of the day was really good. Not high, but not baseline either. I am not a very social person and I could definetely see an improvement in that area.

    I had to give up my loved GHB years ago because of some localized stomach pain which has accompanied me since then. I don't know how related was and if the aging of my GHB would have had anything to do, but anyway I felt it maybe a bit more yesterday and today, but too soon to say anything. I hope it has nothing to do, as I can see phenibut already like a useful tool.

    Would love to try pregabalin, sounds like a strong phenibut with less inconvenients. I imagine it like something between phenibut and GHB. Probably I am going to switch my worthless alcohol use with other GABA agonists. Much nicer feeling, and less compulsive even if only for the more satisfactory effect in my system.

    It might be soon to judge. But phenibut didn't seem very adictive to me. It's not a redosing drug, slow onset, etc...not what an addict is looking for. Anyway I had been always good at controling alcohol, GHB, and benzos, so YMMV. If I haven't read how easy it is to get a withdrawal I would be surely doing it today again, so probably to have the withdrawal just around the corner can be quite self-regulating. Still quite weird the withdrawal thing, a bit bothering to think about the fast changes in metabolism that the drug produces.

    P.S. Thanks to Xorkoth for the first post of this thread, I just read it today and it was the best information I had found about the substance.
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    #89
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    Phenibut has a grip on me for sure, just because I really enjoy the altered baseline state. Over time and regular use it produces some level of dependence. I have read of people taking it every day for a long time having really bad withdrawals. Currently I am reducing from every other day to every 3rd day again, and then I want to take a long break because I have been using it for years and it is starting to produce weird body pains/joint pains (I think it's the phenibut anyway). I get some anxiety when reducing but nothing serious. It's also hard to fall asleep when I don't stick to my regular schedule.

    Today is my second dose in my full reduction to every third day, and last night I took a benzo to fall asleep, but otherwise I felt pretty good. Gonna take it again Saturday (I'm playing a show Saturday, good timing). Then maybe try to just jump off, or wait 4 days if it gets difficult. As far as addictive drugs go, phenibut is easy to deal with, but it's addictive. It also has a subtle but real pull. Like you said, it makes your day really good, it feels like baseline but an enhanced baseline. That is a powerful draw, to know that you can dose a cheap powder and be pretty much guaranteed to have an above-average day. But it's not compulsive like something like opiates. I think, like you suggested, this is mainly because it's so slow to come on, there is no "hit" or rush, and the effect is subtle, rather than overt.
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    #90
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    Phenibut is as has been mentioned, a drug where one has to find their "sweet spot", which out of all of the other drugs I have tried truly seems to differ greatly from one person to the next. I've only been using phenibut off and on for maybe a little over a year now. At first I tried using phenibut from doses ranging from 1.5-2 grams every other day following the dosing guidelines provided by the vendor I was getting it from. This worked for a couple of weeks, but eventually a tolerance was noted and I had to step down.

    I now take no more then 1.5 grams when I do take it, and no more then maybe three to four times per month. I have been dealing with some PAW after quitting diclazepam basically cold turkey after attempting to use it to come off a horrendous etizolam habit, and it does seem to help for a couple days. Diclazepam gave me a lot of unwanted side effects and put me in a horribly depressed state, which is why after titrating down rather quickly from a Benzo with such a long Half-Life I chose to jump off cold turkey at about 1 milligram and use etizolam once again when the withdraws became unbearable. This may sound crazy, perhaps it is, but it is working. Not that I would suggest anyone to follow suit. If you have health insurance then go see a doctor.

    Anyway, phenibut really messed up my stomach when I was using it at the aforementioned doses in the first paragraph. And when I say messed up, I mean it felt as though I was burning a hole in my stomach lining. I chose to jump off of that train cold turkey as well, and the withdraw experienced only lasted maybe a week tops. Again, not suggesting anyone do this as it can be dangerous depending on what dose you have been taking and for how long, I just have come to the conclusion that as long as I am not in danger of seizing coming off of gabaergic drugs (been there done that), it is just easier for me to quit and have a couple of days/weeks of hell rather then to taper slowly and prolong the process. I also use various dissociatives to combat excitotoxicity when need be, which have proven for me to be nothing but beneficial. Again, don't do what I do if you have health insurance and can afford to see a doctor. My choices are my own based off of past and present experience. They work for me. YMMV

    Phenibut is a strange drug, but I do benefit/enjoy it a lot so it has its place in my book when used very responsibly.
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    #91
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    Thanks to both of you for sharing your wise experienced experiences. Your stories ring a bell of my past history of drug use. It seems once you allow yourself to be careless with addictive drugs you are burning some bridges. Really difficult to do things right then. Simple common sense and discipline becomes a real will fight against our more basic instincts.

    Hope I can do things well from the beginning this time and I won't need my own experience to learn from mistakes. I understand very well that "to know that you can dose a cheap powder and be pretty much guaranteed to have an above-average day" as you well put it is going to be a challenge. But the more I allow myself the more challenge it'll become. Wish me luck!

    I already arranged and interview with a psychiatrist to see if I can get a pregabalin prescription to satiate my curiosity and have different options when indulging is unavoidable. I probably will say mostly the truth and tell him that I need something for my dark days once in a while and that I have read about Lyrica and that sounds preferable to benzos or alcohol. As much as I hate lying I probably will exagerate my anxiety and hide my recreative intentions. A bit of a shame to have to go through the theatre but still good psychiatry is giving interesting and safer drugs finally.
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    #92
    Bluelighter MDPV_Psychosis's Avatar
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    I've been keeping my phenibut usage to a minimum, thankfully. Like one single 2 gram dose a month. Considering my history of abuse with just about everything else I've ever liked, this is quite a feat for myself.

    ...But I think I'm gonna stop taking it all together. I've been getting strange leg pains that start several hours after ingestion and last for 24-36 hours.

    It isn't exactly "pain" but more of a strange electrical like feeling in the legs. Reminds me of rls from opiate withdrawal but without the constant need to keep moving my legs (if that makes sense). It's hard to describe but whatever it is it's really starting to bother me.

    :/ Shame, I really like this stuff too.
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    #93
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    Yeah, phenibut causes leg weirdness to me, even pain if it's dosed too high. Honestly, over time I have slowly started to need less of it to reach optimal effects (when considering tolerance), but it really takes a long time for the full state to develop. If you like it enough and use it responsibly (once a month, good work!), try taking 1.5 grams next time instead of 2 grams. It might solve your problems.
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    #94
    First and foremost. Thank you Xorkoth! Loved your insight and this thread. Read the whole thing today.


    I stumbled onto Phenibut through bodybuilding. As somewhat of a "growth hormone" enhancer or helping of increasing your natural levels. Upon further reading I really started to love the effects it had. I mean nothing's perfect. Read everywhere about the tolerance and withdrawal lol. But alas I ordered some yesterday FAA form from LiftMode. Excited to receive and try asap.

    Debating dosage. Might do 250mg first or 500mg. I haven't done anything. At all. For the past 6 months. Use to vaporize the good ol' green. Never been a fan of alcohol too much. Few shrooms trips.

    I'm​ the kind of guy to do heavy research before I try anything. Usually leaning towards healthier and safer means of recreational fun. Addictive personality? Probably a big yes lol but I have good self control and strong will power.

    Will update you gents on my experience.

    Cheers
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    #95
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    Cool, glad you found it useful. I hope you like it. I haven't really found much difference between the FAA and HCl and the HCl is cheaper so I go with that, but FAA is good too. Just yeah, be careful not to do it too much. I honestly don't really experience tolerance buildup very much unless I do it daily, if I do it every other day it slowly build up a tolerance from 1.5 grams to 3 grams and then stays around there... every third day it really doesn't seem to build up a tolerance much at all. You should definitely start lower than that but you may have a couple of trials of increasing dosages without significant effects. But of course, best to be safe and start slowly.
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    #96
    I'm fairly new to the world of nootropics, but very excited. I have a history of intravenous opiate and pill abuse (over 7 years ago) and I promised I would never go back to that. But I love the idea of enhancing performance and experiences as desired without using anything illegal or anything that will incapacitate you. I think we're all hoping to find that "LIMITLESS" pill.
    My first experience was with phenibut and I was a dumbass. I ordered a canister in powdered form and had no way to measure it, so I have no idea how much I took the first time. But I was intoxicated/incapacitated for days. WAY overdid it. Since then, I've acquired phenibut in 500mg capsules. I'm a big guy, so I found that 3gm would have effect with 6gm being the most I would take and expect to have a good time. Enhanced thought processes, elevated mood, somehow instantly better at everything I did. The only problem is the RAPID tolerance and dependence. I had heard of this occurring in some, so I rarely took it two days in a row until about two weeks ago. I had already been taking it every other day, but I took it two days in direct succession and the following day noticed withdrawal symptoms. I started tapering down to the point that I went without all day yesterday and felt somewhat fine, still not feeling 100%. Headaches, nausea, irregular movements, no major appetite. I like the effect of phenibut so much that I'm going to take quite a while off of it just to avoid dependence, then use it NO MORE than once a week, with other less addictive nootropics in between phenibut doses.
    I'm going to go get some L-Theanine a bit later as I've heard this can help phenibut withdrawals. Anyone agree?
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    #97
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    L-theanine does help because it's relaxing and stress-relieving. Also, fasoracetam appears to help upregulate GABA-B receptors (which is what phenibut binds to). I'm tapering down from phenibut too, and yesterday I tried some, 15mg sublingually (has to be sublingual apparently or the dose is much higher and it's pretty expensive), and it definitely helped a lot, more than L-theanine for sure.

    What I experience in withdrawals is anxiety, runny nose/eyes, a bit of restlessness (although not bad), and irregular bowel movements. I don't find it too bad but it definitely throws me off. I've never taken 6 grams though, probably the most I've taken in a day is 4 grams, 6 sends me into shitty territory. When I used to take it every day in 3-4 grams a day (actually now that I think about it probably up to 5 grams some days), many years ago, I got more severe withdrawals when I stopped, still nothing terrible, nothing like opiate addiction, or benzo or anything, but quite unpleasant and difficult.
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    #98
    Yeah I've heard of people taking as much as 10/12 grams in separate doses every day for months on end. That's just asking for it. I feel like I'll be alright. I'll look up fasoracetam and consider adding it to my toolbox. Thanks!
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    #99
    Oh boy, I write this with lots of excitement. Am I in love.

    Experience 1: So I receive my Phenibut shipment 3 days ago. On a Friday. Now as I don't have an accurate scale I use the scoop which is 0.625cc? Or as the label suggests 500mg. Take 2 scoops. Lol. I originally thought it was 250mg don't ask how. But I have heard these scoops being under-dosed. Having woken up/empty stomach and receiving my shipment soon after. I take 2 scoops. Somewhere between the ballpark of 500mg-1g. Drink some black tea for caffeine with it as I had no coffee.

    1 - Hour: Barely noticeable relaxation/calmness
    2 - Hours: Slightly more pronounced calmness. Slightly uplifted mood.
    3 - Hours: 60% anxiety inhibition/no stress/feel kind of good, but a nonstop feeling of kinda good.
    4 - Hours: General good feeling all day, tapered down after 8 hours of initially taking it and quickly faded out.

    Overall: Went to the gym shortly after taking Phenibut. I noticed more intense sweating/almost easier to sweat. Perhaps elevated body temperature. More frequent urination and thirst for water. Almost no anxiety spike when performing tasks that normally would elecit a jump. Felt like I had nerves of steel. General "don't give a fuck" attitude. I wasn't second guessing my actions. Anxiety wasn't causing overthinking. To an extend. It felt great. Like I was having an amazing day plus more.

    I refrained myself from taking anymore to wait 2-3 days(btw I've decided to take it twice a week with 3 days in-between). Refrained fairly easily. Day after I noticed that after glow effect people discussed. Yesterday I was having more of a sub flatline day. Slightly more anxiety than usual but I've come to deal with anxiety really well. I can suppress it/ignore it and it doesn't inhibit me to an extent. Just don't fully enjoy being myself.

    NOW day 3, aka today is where I really experienced the effects of Phenibut. I wake up at around 11am. Take 3 scoops(I know I know, get a scale lol). Down some water and decide to see how it feels without caffeine right away this time. 2 hours later I have breakfast with more black tea. Head off to gym and work. Finished gym/had another scoop as the effects somewhat seem lessened after I gym and sauna/shower. So 4 scoop total today. Somewhere in the ballpark of 1.5 - 2.0g's?

    1 - Hour: Mild relaxation and calmness.
    2 - Hours: Everything brighter. Feeling talkative and good.
    3 - Hours: Everything's glowing. Very social. Little to no anxiety or stress. Flatlined/never spiked up. Considerable more anxiety suppression than day 1.
    4 - Hours: Feeling slightly manic. Head feels ever so slightly cloudy? Very minute negative effects and feelings. Possibly too high dosage.
    5+ - Hours: Amazing day. Little spouts of feeling manic. Very social. Felt stronger emotional connection and love when conversing with girlfriend. Mindnumbing work felt enjoyable. Everything felt satisfying. Everything. Satisfying to talk. Satisfying to walk. Satisfying to breath. Strangely could feel my chest expanding as I was breathing. Full effects felt 9 hours, tapered down afterwards.

    Eating: Not too many people mention appetite and eating. When the full effects of Phenibut kick in. Or especially after taking it on an empty stomach and waiting 1-2 hours. It's no so much I feel hunger. But rather I never feel satiated. I'll sit and eat my normal breakfast and won't feel full or even close to full. I don't feel hungry, but neither full. It just doesn't feel satiated. Quite intriguing.

    Overall I really enjoyed Phenibut. It literally felt like I had such an amazing day and then some. This is going to be an amazing tool for meetings, presentations, and any other high stress high anxiety task/day. Recently put in an order for some Kratom. First time trying that too. I look forward to Thursday.
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    Phenibut makes me munch pretty hard sometimes, like I just want to eat and eat. I'd consider it a bit of a downside. But yeah, glad you had a nice experience, phenibut is a great tool. Careful with kratom as it hits the mu opiate receptor and can produce physical dependence with overuse. It got me addicted to opiates, went through various opiates and an addiction that nearly destroyed me for 10 years, starting with kratom. Not saying it will happen to you, just be careful. Lots of people think it's harmless, and it's definitely a lot safer than full opiates, but it essentially is an opiate since it hits the receptors.

    FYI, I just use the little orange scoop it comes with, it's just about 500mg per scoop. I weighed it on my scale a few times originally and saw that with the fine crystals it was consistently around 500mg, so I don't use a scale anymore.

    By the way I edited out the name of the place you got it from... even though it's legal we still don't discuss sources for substances.
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