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Thread: Beginner Considering AAS - on TRT at 150mg/week Test E. Stick with Test only?

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    Beginner Considering AAS - on TRT at 150mg/week Test E. Stick with Test only? 
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    Bluelighter basix's Avatar
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    Firstly I've read the first cycle sticky and have done a ton of reading about all things TRT and AAS lately, so please excuse the repeated 'first cycle' question.
    I'm atleast 6-12 months away from trying any AAS (if I even do) as I'm still getting my TRT dosage dialed in and seeing good results in the gym at this level. This is more out of curiosity.

    I'm 31, 5'10" 180lbs, 17% bf and have been on TRT for 3 months for secondary Hypogonadism and mild Anemia (low RBC, unrelated to Iron levels / Nutrient deficiency)

    I've had mild Gyno since puberty, it does go down with BF% levels, but it's the last place I drop fat from. TRT Doc did examine it and say it was definitely Gyno, although there's no hard lumps - it just seems like excess fatty tissue. It isn't noticeable under a shirt at my current bf%. I have a typical low T / high Estrogen skinnyfat bodyshape. Store fat on hips, stomach, chest. I'm sure I've had very low test levels my whole life, but never got it addressed.

    Pre TRT my Total T levels were in the low 200's ng/dl (ref 249-860). Free Test was 4.92ng/dl (ref 5.7-17.84)

    -------

    Q: Is adding an oral steroid to a TRT dose of Test an option for a first 'cycle' instead of upping my Test dose to 250mg/300mg for xx weeks. If I already know how I react to Test, does that negate having to 'see how you react' advice that's often given.

    My logic/theory is I don't want more side effects from a higher Test dose (particularly aromatisation) and would rather keep it at the minimum dose that's already giving me decent results. My thinking is adding an oral AAS that's more efficient at what it does (muscle/strength increase or fat loss) would be a better option than increasing Testosterone dose, which effects so many different hormones that I'm trying to get in order with TRT. (Please correct this if I'm way off with my thinking, I realise any AAS will have side effects, many including aromatisation)

    I am considering either Equipoise / Anavar / Winstrol. Goals are to continue to add lean mass with minimal water retention, and reduce bf%. I'm not in a rush with this as I'll likely be on TRT for life anyway.

    ----

    I currently take:

    - 75mg Test Enanthate 2x weekly Tues/Fri (150mg/week)
    - Aromasin 6.25mg twice weekly (1/4 pill on injection days)

    150mg/week Test E puts me in the upper normal range at ~1000 ng/dl the day of my next injection. My Dr. is actually open to overseeing/monitoring a 250mg/week 'cycle', but wants to observe how I respond to 150mg/week for a while longer.

    I had very low E2 levels pre TRT of about 6.3 pg/ml (Ref range 25-60) But they shot up to 70 pg/ml after a bad initial protocol of 250mg test E once every 2 weeks from my old Doctor.

    I switched to a TRT clinic who fixed up my dosing schedule and and I feel great with smaller, twice weekly doses. The AI was more of a precaution due to my existing Gyno, and I was given 12.5mg Aromasin x 2 in the first week. This dropped my E2 from 70 pg/ml back to <10 pg/ml - although I don't really feel any typical low E2 symptoms.

    TRT Doc has since reduced Aromasin to 6.25mg twice a week, trying to get E2 into the 20-35 pg/ml range.
    He's also given me Tamoxifen to have on hand in case of any further Gyno symptoms.

    I did have itchy/sensitive nipples for 2-3 days after switching to the new protocol and I took 2x20mg Tamoxifen over 2 days and it stopped all the symptoms which haven't come back.

    ------


    In short - I'm already on 150mg Test/week, I'm sensitive to aromatisation and would rather add a mild AAS other than Test instead of increasing my test dose.

    Any advice / comments / flaming is welcomed.

    Thanks
    Last edited by basix; 02-01-2017 at 05:41.
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    #2
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    Genetic Freak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basix View Post
    Firstly I've read the first cycle sticky and have done a ton of reading about all things TRT and AAS lately, so please excuse the repeated 'first cycle' question.
    I'm atleast 6-12 months away from trying any AAS (if I even do) as I'm still getting my TRT dosage dialed in and seeing good results in the gym at this level. This is more out of curiosity.

    I'm 31, 5'10" 180lbs, 17% bf and have been on TRT for 3 months for secondary Hypogonadism and mild Anemia (low RBC, unrelated to Iron levels / Nutrient deficiency)

    I've had mild Gyno since puberty, it does go down with BF% levels, but it's the last place I drop fat from. TRT Doc did examine it and say it was definitely Gyno, although there's no hard lumps - it just seems like excess fatty tissue. It isn't noticeable under a shirt at my current bf%. I have a typical low T / high Estrogen skinnyfat bodyshape. Store fat on hips, stomach, chest. I'm sure I've had very low test levels my whole life, but never got it addressed.

    Pre TRT my Total T levels were in the low 200's ng/dl (ref 249-860). Free Test was 4.92ng/dl (ref 5.7-17.84)

    -------

    Q: Is adding an oral steroid to a TRT dose of Test an option for a first 'cycle' instead of upping my Test dose to 250mg/300mg for xx weeks. If I already know how I react to Test, does that negate having to 'see how you react' advice that's often given.

    My logic/theory is I don't want more side effects from a higher Test dose (particularly aromatisation) and would rather keep it at the minimum dose that's already giving me decent results. My thinking is adding an oral AAS that's more efficient at what it does (muscle/strength increase or fat loss) would be a better option than increasing Testosterone dose, which effects so many different hormones that I'm trying to get in order with TRT. (Please correct this if I'm way off with my thinking, I realise any AAS will have side effects, many including aromatisation)

    I am considering either Equipoise / Anavar / Winstrol. Goals are to continue to add lean mass with minimal water retention, and reduce bf%. I'm not in a rush with this as I'll likely be on TRT for life anyway.

    ----

    I currently take:

    - 75mg Test Enanthate 2x weekly Tues/Fri (150mg/week)
    - Aromasin 6.25mg twice weekly (1/4 pill on injection days)

    150mg/week Test E puts me in the upper normal range at ~1000 ng/dl the day of my next injection. My Dr. is actually open to overseeing/monitoring a 250mg/week 'cycle', but wants to observe how I respond to 150mg/week for a while longer.

    I had very low E2 levels pre TRT of about 6.3 pg/ml (Ref range 25-60) But they shot up to 70 pg/ml after a bad initial protocol of 250mg test E once every 2 weeks from my old Doctor.

    I switched to a TRT clinic who fixed up my dosing schedule and and I feel great with smaller, twice weekly doses. The AI was more of a precaution due to my existing Gyno, and I was given 12.5mg Aromasin x 2 in the first week. This dropped my E2 from 70 pg/ml back to <10 pg/ml - although I don't really feel any typical low E2 symptoms.

    TRT Doc has since reduced Aromasin to 6.25mg twice a week, trying to get E2 into the 20-35 pg/ml range.
    He's also given me Tamoxifen to have on hand in case of any further Gyno symptoms.

    I did have itchy/sensitive nipples for 2-3 days after switching to the new protocol and I took 2x20mg Tamoxifen over 2 days and it stopped all the symptoms which haven't come back.

    ------


    In short - I'm already on 150mg Test/week, I'm sensitive to aromatisation and would rather add a mild AAS other than Test instead of increasing my test dose.

    Any advice / comments / flaming is welcomed.

    Thanks
    Hey, Welcome to PED's... Sounds like your new Dr seems pretty clued up.. Personally I'd let the present protocol run for a while longer before deciding adding extra compounds, and concentrate on working out a decent diet and training routine that works for you.. lower that BF%..
    The addition of 150mg/week should be quite a boost to your system after previous hypogonadism.. See how your body responds, you might be pleasantly surprised...

    In answer to your question, yes you could theoretically increase the testosterone if you wish, keeping a close watch on E2, increasing the AI if necessary..
    Or you could add a low dose no-aromatizable oral such as anavar..
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    #3
    Bluelighter basix's Avatar
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    Hey Genetic Freak, Thanks for the welcome.

    Yeah I went searching for a proper TRT Doc after doing a bunch of reading and realising my initial Dr didn't know what she was doing.
    250mg Test E in one injection every 2weeks, no discussion of AI's.

    I've seen plenty of worse protocols though - most TRT patients are lucky to get 250mg Test once every 3-4 weeks where I'm from.

    I tested my labs after week 4, before the 3rd injection and my test levels had gone DOWN to 184 ng/dl. I have low-end SHBG levels too, so was excreting Test especially fast.

    You're right, I've been pleasantly surprised at the progress I've made in the gym on this dose so far - both in strength gains and body recomp, and the bedroom lol.
    Amazing what normal-high levels of test feel like after a lifetime of being on the low end.

    Will be waiting longer for sure before I begin anything, and seeing what I an achieve with current dose. Just curious if the standard 'Test only first cycle' law is as important for someone already taking it for TRT.
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    #4
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    Welcome mate. I'll second what GF says. The anabolic gains you get in raising test levels don't correspond to any absolute factor but are relative, for the most part. So it's the change from what you were doing before that matters. And thus you should be enjoying a nice boost now.


    Q: Is adding an oral steroid to a TRT dose of Test an option for a first 'cycle' instead of upping my Test dose to 250mg/300mg for xx weeks. If I already know how I react to Test, does that negate having to 'see how you react' advice that's often given.

    If you did choose to do an actual 'cycle' in future, you'd benefit from gradually tapering up the dose of what you're using now, rather than jumping straight up to 250mg/300mg or equivalent. This is obviously easier to achieve with an injectable like test, but there's no fundamental reason you couldn't add an oral like anavar as GF says above, and gradually taper up that dose instead. However breaking up the tablets could be a challenge, and I can't see any benefits over and above using test, since test sides are relatively easily controlled with ancillaries.
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    #5
    Bluelighter basix's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input CFC.

    When you say the anabolic benefits are mostly relative, would that mean someone beginning with low baseline Test going on a TRT dose increasing there Test levels 5X could get similar anabolic effects to someone with normal levels increasing there levels 5X?

    Eg:
    Someone going from 200ng/dl --> 1000ng/dl could get similar benefits as someone going from 600ng/dl --> 3000ng/dl?

    I realise there's probably 100 other factors involved.

    Cheers!
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    #6
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    Generally speaking, yes, though nobody can really say exactly how it translates. But this is why starting out from very low levels could in fact be extremely beneficial. Have a read of this sticky, it should make the reasoning more apparent.
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