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    Loose skin around nipples 
    #1
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    Let me preface by stating that this has nothing to do with the topic of gyno. Thus far I have never used AAS.

    For my entire life I have had loose skin right in the immediate nipple area. The lowest I have ever cut to is probably to 8% +/- 1% and my nipples looked the same at that as they do at 15+%. I had washboard abs, tight lower chest separation and such, only with the nipples of an obese man. Their default state is just like this, and I have to either be cold, have a pump going on or manually stimulate myself in order to get tight and cool looking nipples. Moreover, when I achieve this, it won't last.

    It does not seem to be the kind of thing that cutting to 6% would solve. I also don't think that I can decline bench/fly my way out of this problem as guys at my gym have suggested.

    Anyway, it is a huge source of insecurity for me. I feel confident going topless if my nipples are hard, but otherwise it is a constant candid battle I have with them and really is distracting and feels neurotic.

    Any non-surgical solutions to this? Chemicals, topical creams, other strategies?
    Last edited by RedLeader; 21-04-2017 at 02:30.
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    #2
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    When you say 'loose', what exactly do you mean? As in sort of flaps/folds of skin? Or slight fattyness there?

    Bear in mind gyno is a natural condition that affects a huge % of men and isn't necessarily due to AAS (it's mostly a pubertal cause).
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    #3
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    As previously stated pubertal gynecomastia is more common than most people realise, it generally resolves itself in time, in most people..

    Surgery may be your only option if condition has presented for over a year..

    Interesting paper I've had a while: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706045/
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    #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    When you say 'loose', what exactly do you mean? As in sort of flaps/folds of skin? Or slight fattyness there?
    Flaps and folds, ya. Definitely not any fattyness. It did get worse during my years of alcohol and opiate addiction, without my bodyfat really changing, but that may be unrelated. I will try and post up photos later of loose and erect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genetic Freak View Post
    As previously stated pubertal gynecomastia is more common than most people realise, it generally resolves itself in time, in most people..

    Surgery may be your only option if condition has presented for over a year..

    Interesting paper I've had a while: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706045/
    I didn't know about newborn gyno, interesting. I'd heard of it happening in the 5-7yr range when some boy's testosterone transiently leaps and then of course during puberty proper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLeader View Post
    Flaps and folds, ya. Definitely not any fattyness. It did get worse during my years of alcohol and opiate addiction, without my bodyfat really changing, but that may be unrelated. I will try and post up photos later of loose and erect.
    That would help, or even if you can Google similar. AFAIK if losing fat hasn't tightened the skin, then surgery is going to be the only option. Having said that, you mention that when the nipples erect it's ok, so I think your description of the problem and the image in my head could be at odds!
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    Maybe could you post up some pics so we can see how severe it is?



    If it's pretty bad then surgery is going to be your only option I believe.
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    #8
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    Ah ok. Looks like you had a smidgen of gyno growing up mate, tbh. I had exactly the same thing.

    Didn't notice it in puberty but when I competed it started to show. I got it surgically removed.

    You could try an AI combined with a strong androgen and see if it reduces it some, but you've probably just got differentiated tissue in there, not fat, and it's unlikely to go now.
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    Ya, I mean it's hard to say if it's something I grew up with or something I gave myself through years of alcohol and opiate abuse, and whatever effects that had on my endogenous hormones. One thing I have noticed when attending things like 12 step meetings is that many more (skinny) people in recovery circles have such effects showing through clothing than in any ordinary sampling of the population. Then again, I also was 105lbs soaked wet in high school and did some sloppy dirty bulks to try and fill out, which really just made me skinny-fat. And just genetically the last place for fat to drop for me is my chest. This was not an issue until after those bulking attempts, but again, multiple things going on as time progressed...

    And ya, I mean I am flirting with the idea of running a basic test e cycle within this year, and if I do it, I will most definitely have an AI protocol. So I guess we would see if that would make it any worse. But I'm still a powerlifter at heart...I have no desire to clean up ever for a bbing stage...But it's just an insecurity.
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    I'd probably use masteron rather than test e if you wanted to see if it will shrink some more. I mean test e is great for powerlifting, but masteron better for gyno elimination. You'd still make some gains with masteron though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    I'd probably use masteron rather than test e if you wanted to see if it will shrink some more. I mean test e is great for powerlifting, but masteron better for gyno elimination. You'd still make some gains with masteron though.
    Wasn't there some trials injecting direct into nipple..
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    I'd probably use masteron rather than test e if you wanted to see if it will shrink some more. I mean test e is great for powerlifting, but masteron better for gyno elimination. You'd still make some gains with masteron though.
    So you're suggesting that I would run masteron alone as a first cycle?
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    Yes, I think that would be a good idea if you want to tackle the residual gyno.
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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genetic Freak View Post
    Wasn't there some trials injecting direct into nipple..
    Probably? It was developed as a treatment for breast cancer. I wouldn't be injecting it into my nipple though ouch lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    Yes, I think that would be a good idea if you want to tackle the residual gyno.
    Okay. I will do some research, though I suspect most people are going to say not to run it without test. So would I follow the scaling in approach to maximize it? And scale out with no PCT? Is there one particular AI to favor in this case? I actually don't quite understand the need for an AI if there is no test base and mast does not aromatize..?
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    #16
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    You look pretty normal to me mate. Irs not gynaecomastia. That looks just like normal nipples on a very buff body. Laser surgery or a snall amount of fat removal could help but the nipple itself it not fatty tissue and could look deflated. : A cosmetic surgeon would help you.

    I see gynaecomastia a lot and yeah, you dont have it.
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    #17
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    Well ideally yes, you'd have test in there. But since you want to try and eliminate the gyno, this would be a more fool-proof way.

    I'd probably ditch the AI and instead use a SERM (like tamoxifen, raloxifene, toremifene) though, as you need some oestrogenic effect elsewhere in the body (very unhealthy otherwise), and these will target E2 receptors in the breast tissue directly. Also don't forget not all sex hormones are gonad-derived, the adrenals produce a little, so you will have a tiny bit of natural oestrogen and test.

    Masteron isn't typically thought of as super 'strong' for anabolic gains per se, so even though gyno is a main target, I'd certainly taper up to try and maximise muscle and strength gains too. How long would you be planning to do the cycle for? 10 weeks?
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    #18
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    I might actually do something like LGD and mast for 10 weeks, tapering both up, and try and recomp while driving down to 8% or so for some summer events. Take some time off PEDs and then set myself up for a lean bulk with test.
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    #19
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    I'd try and kill it with nolvadex and proviron/and or mast. If that doesn't work then the surgery, where they can remove the gland and you will never have to worry about it again.



    It's very minimal though.. So you may not even bother unless it just really bothers you.
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    I have always had a smaller chest despite easily doing 5x5s with 1.5X and being able to incline db press heavy. My shoulders are a strong point, but I have worked really hard to learn to bench without them taking over. And honestly, there was not that much of a visual change in my chest going from 1X to 1.5X for working sets. My chest is my stubborn fat area too. If I get to even 15%, I get that god awful lower/side chest fat showing through tshirts. I have always been curious if there are AAS protocols out there that actually would help me build keepable chest gains. And to zeph's post, ya I guess I do just want those really aesthetic nipples that tan well and look perky all the time.

    Okay, so the early rough draft...

    1: 1.25mg LGD ed
    2: 2.5mg LGD ed
    3: 5mg LGD ed, 10mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed
    4: 5mg LGD ed, 20mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed
    5: 7.5mg LGD ed, 30mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed
    6: 7.5mg LGD ed, 40mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed
    7: 10mg LGD ed, 50mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed
    8: 10mg LGD ed, 60mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed
    9: 12.5mg LGD ed, 70mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed, 3g DAA ed
    10: 12.5mg LGD ed, 80mg mast eod, 10mg nolva ed, 3g DAA ed
    11: 5mg LGD ed, 40mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed, 3g DAA ed
    12: 2.5mg LGD ed, 20mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed, 3g DAA ed
    13+: DAA 3g ed

    I weigh in the low 140s at 5'5. The intention is to start at 12% and finish at 7-8%, ideally keeping my weight about the same. I would start this in a deficit of 400cal or so and reverse diet, dynamically altering it as needed. I would reset volume after a deload during week 0 and proportionally increase it over the 12 weeks, essentially doing a powerbuilding mesocycle in the fashion of progressive overload the same way I would do it if all natural.

    Is the masteron too low?
    Should the nolva be run ed or eod during cycle? (Nolva is what my source has, but with a little searching I could probably get the other SERMs CFC mentioned if convinced one is better)
    Do I need anything additional for PCT? Should I bother ordering HCG to have on hand? If I also include proviron, how should I dose it?
    Last edited by RedLeader; 25-04-2017 at 20:55.
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    #21
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    I know you really like plans, so I've amended it a little:

    1: 2.5mg LGD ed, 10mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed (+25mg endogenous test/wk - for example)
    2: 5mg LGD ed, 20mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed (+12.5mg endogenous test/wk)
    3: 5mg LGD ed, 30mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    4: 7.5mg LGD ed, 40mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    5: 7.5mg LGD ed, 50mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    6: 10mg LGD ed, 60mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    7: 10mg LGD ed, 70mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    8: 12.5mg LGD ed, 80mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    9: 12.5mg LGD ed, 90mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    10: 15mg LGD ed, 100mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    11: 5mg LGD ed, 20mg mast eod, 20mg nolva ed
    12: 2.5mg LGD ed, 20mg nolva ed
    13: 20mg nolva ed
    14: 10mg nolva ed (+5mg endogenous test/wk)
    15: 5mg nolva ed (+10mg endogenous test/wk
    16: 2.5mg nolva ed (+15mg endogenous test/wk)
    17: (+20mg endogenous test/wk)
    18: (+25mg endogenous test/wk) "back to normal"


    *DAA isn't going to be of any use until week 13 really, so no point taking it before then.
    *Take 5g taurine/day for some additional protection from free-radicals
    *You don't need HCG.
    *Nolva is fine. Taper down the nolva as you come off the cycle (sometimes you can get rebound gyno once endogenous test/oestrogen comes back on stream).
    *Have more nolva than you need for the cycle. Just in case.
    *Good plan with the cutting. It will increase potential anti-gyno success (less IGF-1)
    *You don't really need proviron when you've got masteron
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    #22
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    Thanks for the amending. Should I go with mast p, a or e? I assume the eod dosing we've written up would be mast e?
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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLeader View Post
    Thanks for the amending. Should I go with mast p, a or e? I assume the eod dosing we've written up would be mast e?
    EOD dosing would be mast p, plus it is easier to attain legit mast p verses mast enanthate. Make sure your source has legit mast in general though, because a lot of it is just test prop labeled as mast.


    Earlier I just mentioned the proviron as an alternative to masteron etc.. not both together fyi.
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    #24
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    Yeah true, it can be difficult to find a reliable source. Might be best to do a basic test of it anyway. I was thinking E only because you'd have a smoother taper at the end, but P probably is easier to get.
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    #25
    tbh that looks like a normal male nipple to me unless your nipple was hard when the picture was shot
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