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Thread: New to Subs, want to die

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    New to Subs, want to die 
    #1
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    I switched to subs recently after dope got way too expensive and threatened my living conditions. I'm still employed and everything, I'm on vacation during this switch. Physically - I had to black out on benzos for several days to deal with the withdrawals that never went away. I still feel horrible and painful compared to normal. But the mental effects are hell. I can't hide from these dark thoughts. I feel like my life isn't worth living since I'm just so miserable. I don't see a future. With the heroin I could cope with this. Is there any way to fix this? Is this normal? Will it pass? I honestly feel like committing myself it's so bad. Heroin was so helpful, I did so well while on it but it costs too much. Does anyone have any advice? I genuinely don't know what to do.
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    #2
    Have you tried methadone instead? I found subs to do nothing for my pain and hated them. They also caused me insomnia.
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    #3
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    Captain.Heroin's Avatar
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    My hopes are blighted, my heart is broken, my life a burden, everything around me is sad and mournful; earth has become distasteful to me, and human voices distract me. It is mercy to let me die, for if I live I shall lose my reason and become mad.
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    Were you depressed before heroin?
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
    Were you depressed before heroin?
    Pretty much yeah. But this I assume this is due to the lack of full effects from the bupe so it's the withdrawal depression coming through. It's on and off but it's remarkable when it's on.
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    #5
    Greenlighter O-pan-na's Avatar
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    Bro, I was on heroin for 1 year and I thought I was doing great as well. In truth, I lost 30 pounds, spent $5,700(definitely much more but know this much for sure) and I looked like a user I probably even reeked of heroin from within my sweat. Now, I have been on subs for 1 year. I have gained 35-40 pounds back, I have more money then I know how to spend which was never possible before, I have a beautiful girlfriend and a great job as an electrician which is hard work but I enjoy it. Now, with that all said it took me about 2-3 months of only sub usage to feel normal mentally and happy. Give it time and I promise you will feel better and probably look better too.
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    #6
    That's my problem with subs , I wanna quit and use them but I almost feel like I'm better off cold turkey from almost every aspect and point of view
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by O-pan-na View Post
    Bro, I was on heroin for 1 year and I thought I was doing great as well. In truth, I lost 30 pounds, spent $5,700(definitely much more but know this much for sure) and I looked like a user I probably even reeked of heroin from within my sweat. Now, I have been on subs for 1 year. I have gained 35-40 pounds back, I have more money then I know how to spend which was never possible before, I have a beautiful girlfriend and a great job as an electrician which is hard work but I enjoy it. Now, with that all said it took me about 2-3 months of only sub usage to feel normal mentally and happy. Give it time and I promise you will feel better and probably look better too.
    I'm sure that I'm better off than using expensive illegal opioids inconsistently with a job. But if I could get grams behind the counter at the pharmacy I'd be a lot better off than with these subs. The emotional shit is like full withdrawal. Total doom and despair tier depression. I also had a small bump one of the days and the subs definitely don't seem to be blocking that part for some reason as my mental state seemed to level out a whole lot. Maybe it's just the reward pathway of snorting shit.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorillaboy21 View Post
    That's my problem with subs , I wanna quit and use them but I almost feel like I'm better off cold turkey from almost every aspect and point of view
    The large single or double dose is a reasonable method. Take 16mg when you get really sick, then maybe 8mg 24 hours later. You won't get hooked on subs and you'll have a far less painful withdrawl.
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    #9
    im switching to methadone from subs i feel better om methadone
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    #10
    Bluelighter keeping's Avatar
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    an offhand use for buprenorphine is an anti-depressant for conditions like MDD, are you currently on other anti-d's? maube they're intyerferingn with each other and/or you aint been taking for long enough for the effects to build up in you sexy lil body/ (ツ
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    #11
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    you sound like me OP.

    i've attempted quitting 3 times in the past 2 years, before that used H and other opiates for 10 years.

    the first time was with suboxone and lasted 6 months, but i was so miserable all the time i gave up. the last 2 times i tried quitting was without subs and i realized i will live through the physical part, but 3 months later the unrelenting misery was just too much to bare. felt like it was never going to end. mentally i felt the same as on day 7 of WD, which was the same as being on subs except no physical dependance and enjoyed a few times chipping before i decided, again, that i was much happier and healthier addicted.

    so yeah that sucks i guess but at least know you don't feel alone..
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    #12
    I'm cutting back my dosage today. I've beein going over 8mg per day the past few, I'm going to cut that out now and just stick with 2mg 4x a day. Things seem to be evening a little bit but I was really surprised with all of the positive talk around suboxone that they could be so useful for psychological withdrawal effects.
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    #13
    i think its fair to say we all respond differently to different drugs my general mood on subs is a bit shit but then again i am on mirtazipine aswell but im switching to meth in a week and i cant wait ha
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    #14
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    same with me but i was never depressed before heroin..only when i stopped slamming and smoking...ive been on and off since February and i can definitely tell you that yes after a few months youll be happier it took for me about 1-3 months hang in their..things will get easier and sometimes life is alright..
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    #15
    Bluelighter thelonegunman's Avatar
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    I find that they calm down my brain in an anti-depressive way, not in a sedated way. Although too much sub will make me groggy and slightly, almost.sorta kinda nod a bit for maybe a minute.
    SO that's why I try to stick with 2mg in the morning, 2 at night.
    I also ind I sleep better on it,and if I have to get up at 7 the next morning, i like to sometimes get up at five or so, pop ion my 2mg, go back to sleep and when I wake up I'm somewhat enthusiastic. As opposed to the dread and anxiety I usually feel in the morning.

    There's locks in my brain chemistry that only opiates seem to fit like the right key.
    Although I don't get high in any way off the subs; I believe it satisfies my brain's craving for balance.
    Along with Wellbutrin and Prozac, but that's just me.
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    #16
    Bluelighter thelonegunman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by losangeles1993 View Post
    same with me but i was never depressed before heroin..only when i stopped slamming and smoking...ive been on and off since February and i can definitely tell you that yes after a few months youll be happier it took for me about 1-3 months hang in their..things will get easier and sometimes life is alright..
    The depression that comes with the day or days after opiate using/bingeing is just killer horrible. It's like as high as I got with my DOC; the equal amount of low will hit on the other side. If that makes sense.
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthesuck View Post
    The large single or double dose is a reasonable method. Take 16mg when you get really sick, then maybe 8mg 24 hours later. You won't get hooked on subs and you'll have a far less painful withdrawl.
    Why does everyone say to take .5 mgs every few hours slowly work your way up? Lots of contradicting information:/
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    #18
    Bluelighter opiatekrzy's Avatar
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    I am pretty confident that if you lower your daily dose to 4mg maximum, you will be amazed at how good you feel. "Less is more", remember that. At low doses, buprenorphine acts as a full agonist opioid, like morphine, oxys, etc... At my higher doses, in other words maintenance doses, such as 8-24mg, it only partially effects opioid receptors, leaving you not feeling any opiate glow at all, and more side effects such as irritability, depression, insomnia, headaches, etc...some people can tolerate it While others cannot. Try taking one or two mg at once, wait a bit and you should feel good, you should feel a pleasant opiate buzz atleast enough to keep you satisfied and craving free. You may not feel his effect right away as your tolerance is high, but trust me if you wait long enough until you feel withdrawls, and then do what I said, you will be amazed at what low doses can do! I recommend sniffing it to maximize NA, no need to fear if you have the films, put a piece of the film (1-2mg) , on either a spoon or toothpaste cap, add literally a few drops of water on it, stir with the tip of a knife, and tip the spoon or cap in your nose and suck it in, works like a charm. Wish you the best!
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    #19
    Bluelighter Ilove2nod's Avatar
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    ^opiatekrzy is very right about less being more.. when I take less than 1-2mg 3x spread out throughout my day, I feel and have always felt great. I take subutex though. It takes a minute to deal with the initial transition from dope/opiates to sub for most people too.. when you begin taking them, after doing full agonist opioids/opiates for so long, it at least drove me, insane! I hated life, was never depressed when I had my DOC at the time, I first began taking subs, that was oxycodone.. I always had it, and was okay feeling, but the first transition I made to bupe, killed me! mentally, I wasn't really sick at all, physically, but I still kept trying to over power way too much sub, not knowing too much about it as I do now, being on it for over 5 years. After a couple weeks to a month I really began to actually enjoy taking bupe, at lower doses, spread out over the course of a day. Subs are not for everyone... some prefer other maintenance methods, like methadone..
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    #20
    Bluelighter opiatekrzy's Avatar
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    I think once he takes low doses like he explained, he will enjoy it, low doses of Bupe feel nothing like Bupe at high doses, it's like a whole other ball game, it feels like an actual opiate!
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    #21
    I just weaned myself off a $4000 a month habit with iv use I used for a full year straight until I just could not take it anymore I tried 3 other times to quit went through most painful withdrawals just to start using again . my third time has been a success so far im 5 days clean and really besides the insomnia I feel fine I went back to work yesterday I took a week off to " go camping" I won't explain my failed attempts of withdrawal but this time I'm so done with this shit it's definitely a successful withdrawal with minimal symptoms. Two weeks prior I cut my habit in half and then in half again to about a 3 day use of just enough to be well for work and a little sick when not working just barley keeping myself well so my tolerance went way down this is the most important thing you can do with help with the agony of skin crawling leg and arm buzzing twitching restlessness ugh the agony ! But seriously I barely experienced any like a 4 out of 10 . I started withdrawl with basically knocking myself out with benzos probably why I didn't experience the really bad leg and arms crap. So about 24 hours of being bared out then dehydration set in and I couldn't stop vomiting for a whole 24 hrs couldn't sleep tossed and turned but still not the bad anxiety you get it was actually really easy going just weak sick symptoms and exhaustion. I have subs a friend gave me so I waited till the right hour on the dot to use them not putting myself through a sub and heroin detox fight which is the worst withdrawal u will ever have . I decided to cook the sub about 2 milli and shot it I guesss it's a needle fixation with me . So that did the trick I fealt fine just exhausted and dehydrated but truthfully I don't think I needed the sub at alll honestly I got through the withdrawl just fine by tapering my habit down I'm day five and I feel normal as can be expected of course depression sets in strong lack of any interest or motivation but those feeling will go away if you give your brain time to heal and do the right thing . Subs do the same thing heroin does so wtf is the point of going through withdrawal waiting it out then taking a sub just to withdrawal off of those . Subs take longer to get out of your system and have a longer withdrawal and then you are a slave again. taper down get some benzos and just get through it . There is light at the end of the tunnel seriously you will feel normal again and move on in your life . Give your brain time to heal it will . I have also read and tried using clear during withdrawal and it really helps a lot for some reason I think it just gives u a ton of energy so you just feel normal but using drugs to get off drugs really has to be done just right especially when self medicating a self medicator. Cheers and good luck get offf this hondo market of black fucking death this shit is a waste of money time life and happiness
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    #22
    Just wean yourself down way down over two weeks and go for it
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    #23
    Bluelighter thelonegunman's Avatar
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    I've always questioned tolerance "going down" by reducing over short periods, like 3- 6 months.
    If I go from 300mg of my opiate DOC a day to 100mg 4 weeks later; that doesn't reduce my tolerance.
    For me, personally, anyway. It just keeps me going and buzzed the first few times.

    Then , say, going from 100mg/day to 25mg/day, again, keeps me from WD and maybe gives a light buzz.
    But if reducing ,weaning, down like that lowers tolerance - then I should be feeling really rather nice/pain free/etc. at 25mg/day during that 8th week ( or whatever your weaning schedule is).
    But I don't. Sure, it helps to cut down for a while, so when you do wanna feel real relief, you can. But to get there, at that "real relief" point I need more than say the 25mg/day that I'm at in my taper schedule.
    I'd still need 100-150mg to get "there". Which I guess is better than needing the original 300mg to get there, but then my tolerance will shoot way, way back up in a mater of a week or, two, max.

    SO, I've never successfully lowered my tolerance. I've lowered or stopped my intake, but it's like the old saying "You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube"
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    #24
    It is a miserable experience switching to subs from a full agonist like H. I got off sub a few years back by using loperamide. With loperamide I could get a nice buzz and I thought this is fantastic I can get it whenever, cheap prices, no money easily boostable, and since it's OTC it can be hard to just quit. Well I got to taking about 200 pills a day of loperamide and some really bad side effects starting showing themselves. Extreme fatigue in that... at work if I had to lift something that was 40-80lbs within 3-5 seconds my muscles would become so fatigued that I would have to drop whatever it was I was lifting. It take a full 30-40 minutes for me to be able to attempt that lift again and I'd only be able to lift it for 3 seconds. Plus taking around 1500 pills weekly can't be good for you. I really become quite fond of loperamide but it was time to stop. I took my last dose of loperamide last Sunday and I had my wife drop me off at work on Monday. By 9am I was so weak I had to constantly lean on anything around me, I started to vomit uncontrollably, massive dirreahea... and since no car I was stuck and started panicking. I called a dealer who I hadn't talked to in a few months and had him come to my work he dropped me off a little 50 which got me right for the day.

    I got home called a few friends and got 2 strips of 8mg Sub. I was so releaved knowing I had something to take away WDs. I waited 24 hours to take the sub from the last H and it been about 48 hours since loperamide. So when I took the sub I thought I'd start to feel better. Wrong... about 1 1/2 hours after dosing I started to feel that restlessness in my arms, starting getting weak where I had to lean, vomit... I had to take off of work and went home. Started reading and some sites were saying keep taking more until you feel fine.

    I took about 12 my of sub and still never felt fine. It's been about 6 days now of no loperamide and 16 mg of sub and I still don't feel right. I took ooff of work for last two days. I'm fucking blown away that sub at 16 mg hasn't made me right all from a loperamide habbit. I don't care what anyone says but loperamide can stop withdrawing, make you feel great, and without a doubt cause massive withdrawals.

    Horrible depression, my sense of smell is off the charts in a bad way, I have not ate in 2 days, throwing up bile, can't sleep, weak, restlessness.... normally I love to fire up my PlayStation 4 with VR but I have zero desire to even think about a game... all this coming off fucking loperamide using sub. I know at some point it will stop and my body will have gotten use to the sub dose topping out... I have to fight myself from running to get loperamide because all this suffering would had been for not. I would had tried methadone if the requirements weren't so strict. Then if I got on that.. how in the fuck do you get off that beast... so sub is really the only option.

    Just know that it does get better... just will take time to heal. That your not the only one dealing with hell on earth withdrawals.
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    #25
    Reducing gets rid of tolerance, but I believe they're our a minimum amount needed to get proper effect. Like mdma reaching saturation point.
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