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    Can't Get High On Vyvanse 
    #1
    I have quite a bit of experience with stimulants; bit haven't done any in over two years.

    I have tried: Ritalin, Concerta, Quillivant, Adderall, Dexedrine, and Crystal

    I recently got a Vyvanse prescription for ADD, knowing that Vyvanse converts directly into Dextroamphetamine, I immediately went for recreational use. The script I got was for 50mg, so I decided to take 150mg for good recreational effects. I waited two hours and my heart rate rose to 100bpm and the only effect I got that was noticeable was that I was more talkative than usual. This was very strange because I have taken 80mg of Dexedrine with a tolerance multiple times and I became excited, euphoric, energetic, talkative, and I would party nonstop for hours! I was expecting the same from Vyvanse but never got anything close. Can anyone explain this to me?
    Last edited by T. Calderone; 12-10-2017 at 15:34. Reason: please don't use swim
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    #2
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    We don't allow the use of the word SWIM here. Everyone knows it's you. Please edit your post. (normally I'd do it for you this ONE time, but I'm on mobile so it'd take forever (sry bdd mods).

    Also this post belongs in the BDD subforum if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't really have anything else to add here as I've never used Vyvanse. Sorry!

    DC > BDD
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    #3
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    Do you take any other prescription drugs? Cocaine doesn't get me high and someone told me it was because I take SSRIs, so maybe it has something to do with that?
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    #4
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    Vyvanse is metabolized differently than Dexedrine or Adderall are.
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    #5
    I think its an acquired taste, honestly. I was on adds for years and LOVED them, but after a trip to rehab I cant get prescribed them anymore. I do have a vyvanse scrip for 60 mg, which usually lasts me 2 weeks since I double the dose every day. I supplement buying ads on the street and honestly, I am starting to prefer the vyvanse to the ads.
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    #6
    At the time I was taking 20mg of Lexapro but I stopped recently because of side effects that came from it. I was very apathetic and would barely eat even if I hadn't taken Vyvanse that day; but you think that could be the reason for my problem?
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pill2Chill View Post
    We don't allow the use of the word SWIM here. Everyone knows it's you. Please edit your post. (normally I'd do it for you this ONE time, but I'm on mobile so it'd take forever (sry bdd mods).

    Also this post belongs in the BDD subforum if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't really have anything else to add here as I've never used Vyvanse. Sorry!

    DC > BDD

    I apologize I'm new to Blue light and forums in general
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    #8
    I'm sorry if this has a really weird layout, I messed up with the text somewhere and now it looks funny.

    Lexapro is an SSRI, correct? I couldn't find too much about the two together online but it does seem that people are taking them together therapeutically without any trouble, so they probably aren't counteracting each other too much. I did read that Lexapro can make Vyvanse's side effects worse, not really sure if that's true and now that I think about it Lexapro might even be a beta blocker, but the thing is that Vyvanse is a prodrug. It has a different mechanism of action than dexamphetamine/amphetamine. Amphetamine is metabolised by CYP2D6, but lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) is metabolised differently. Here's something taken from RXList (https://www.rxlist.com/vyvanse-drug.html, about half way down the page):


    "Lisdexamfetamine is converted to dextroamphetamine and l-lysine primarily in blood due to the hydrolytic activity of red blood cells after oral administration of lisdexamfetamine dimesylate. In vitro data demonstrated that red blood cells have a high capacity for metabolism of lisdexamfetamine; substantial hydrolysis occurred even at low hematocrit levels (33% of normal). Lisdexamfetamine is not metabolized by cytochrome P450 enzymes."


    So I think what this says is that despite the fact that they are basically the same drug, lisdexamphetamine must go through the blood to be metabolised into dexamphetamine. I haven't the slightest idea what blood enzyme would metabolise lisdexamphetamine, and I can't find anything on it. I've found a source by the FDA (https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2007/021977lbl.pdf) that says that the metabolisation of the drug could be either first pass or hepatic, however:


    "After oral administration, lisdexamfetamine dimesylate is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract. Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate is converted to dextoamphetamine and Llysine, which is believed to occur by first-pass intestinal and/or hepatic metabolism. Lisdexamfetamine is not metabolized by cytochrome P450 enzymes."


    Although I have found more sources saying it is metabolised in the blood, the main thing I'm taking away from all of this is that all sources say that lisdexamphetamine is not metabolised by cytochrome P450 enzymes. CYP2D6 (the enzyme that metabolises amphetamine/dexamphetamine) is an enzyme of the cytochrome P450 category (that's what the 'CYP' prefix stands for), and so lisdexamphetamine has to be metabolised by a different enzyme than the amphetamines you've used in the past. If you want further proof; cytochrome P450 enzymes metabolise compounds that could possibly be toxic. Lisdexamphetamine is bonded to an amino acid called l-lysine. Amino acids are not considered 'possibly toxic' by your body, so it would not be metabolised by a CYP enzyme.

    Now that that's out of the way, let's talk about why you might not be able to get high off of it. Vyvanse is quite a new drug, and there isn't too much research on it and as a result I don't think anybody actually knows for sure what exactly metabolises lisdexamphetamine, but I think it's probably fair to say that the inactive form would be metabolised to dexamphetamine by a bacteria that breaks down lysine and quite a lot of other different chemicals in the body, the
    KT2440 strain of the bacteria pseudomonas putida. I think this is one of the bacteria people talk about when they talk about 'good gut bacteria'. To be honest, I really have no clue if this is what metabolises lisdexamphetamine, but if the source from the FDA is actually correct and it is metabolised in the intestine, then this could be the bacteria that turns the inactive drug into the active dexamphetamine. The bacteria might also appear in the blood, in which case it might be what metabolises lisdexamphetamine even if the metabolisation isn't first pass like the FDA source says. The reason you're not getting high off of Vyvanse could just be because you have very little of this bacteria in your body, or if it is broken down by a completely different enzyme/bacteria/whatever, then you could be deficient in that. That is honestly the only possible reason I can think that you're not getting high off of Vyvanse. Perhaps try a therapeutic amount, if it doesn't work at all it's something you can bring up with your doctor. I should probably tell you I really know nothing about biology and all of this shit that I just typed could be absolute nonsense. Anyway I hope I helped in some way, I usually wouldn't put so much effort into researching something for this site but I might end up on Vyvanse myself for ADHD, so I thought this might have been useful for me to know anyways.
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    #9
    Probably. Thats a pretty high dose of lexapro. Were you not a drooling zombie on it?
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    #10
    Whoops i posted my reply in the wrong place i think. I say yes, thats a super high dose of lexapro. Were you not a total drooling zombie on that much?
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by isaaccain View Post
    I'm sorry if this has a really weird layout, I messed up with the text somewhere and now it looks funny.

    Lexapro is an SSRI, correct? I couldn't find too much about the two together online but it does seem that people are taking them together therapeutically without any trouble, so they probably aren't counteracting each other too much. I did read that Lexapro can make Vyvanse's side effects worse, not really sure if that's true and now that I think about it Lexapro might even be a beta blocker, but the thing is that Vyvanse is a prodrug. It has a different mechanism of action than dexamphetamine/amphetamine. Amphetamine is metabolised by CYP2D6, but lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) is metabolised differently. Here's something taken from RXList (https://www.rxlist.com/vyvanse-drug.html, about half way down the page):


    "Lisdexamfetamine is converted to dextroamphetamine and l-lysine primarily in blood due to the hydrolytic activity of red blood cells after oral administration of lisdexamfetamine dimesylate. In vitro data demonstrated that red blood cells have a high capacity for metabolism of lisdexamfetamine; substantial hydrolysis occurred even at low hematocrit levels (33% of normal). Lisdexamfetamine is not metabolized by cytochrome P450 enzymes."


    So I think what this says is that despite the fact that they are basically the same drug, lisdexamphetamine must go through the blood to be metabolised into dexamphetamine. I haven't the slightest idea what blood enzyme would metabolise lisdexamphetamine, and I can't find anything on it. I've found a source by the FDA (https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2007/021977lbl.pdf) that says that the metabolisation of the drug could be either first pass or hepatic, however:


    "After oral administration, lisdexamfetamine dimesylate is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract. Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate is converted to dextoamphetamine and Llysine, which is believed to occur by first-pass intestinal and/or hepatic metabolism. Lisdexamfetamine is not metabolized by cytochrome P450 enzymes."


    Although I have found more sources saying it is metabolised in the blood, the main thing I'm taking away from all of this is that all sources say that lisdexamphetamine is not metabolised by cytochrome P450 enzymes. CYP2D6 (the enzyme that metabolises amphetamine/dexamphetamine) is an enzyme of the cytochrome P450 category (that's what the 'CYP' prefix stands for), and so lisdexamphetamine has to be metabolised by a different enzyme than the amphetamines you've used in the past. If you want further proof; cytochrome P450 enzymes metabolise compounds that could possibly be toxic. Lisdexamphetamine is bonded to an amino acid called l-lysine. Amino acids are not considered 'possibly toxic' by your body, so it would not be metabolised by a CYP enzyme.

    Now that that's out of the way, let's talk about why you might not be able to get high off of it. Vyvanse is quite a new drug, and there isn't too much research on it and as a result I don't think anybody actually knows for sure what exactly metabolises lisdexamphetamine, but I think it's probably fair to say that the inactive form would be metabolised to dexamphetamine by a bacteria that breaks down lysine and quite a lot of other different chemicals in the body, the
    KT2440 strain of the bacteria pseudomonas putida. I think this is one of the bacteria people talk about when they talk about 'good gut bacteria'. To be honest, I really have no clue if this is what metabolises lisdexamphetamine, but if the source from the FDA is actually correct and it is metabolised in the intestine, then this could be the bacteria that turns the inactive drug into the active dexamphetamine. The bacteria might also appear in the blood, in which case it might be what metabolises lisdexamphetamine even if the metabolisation isn't first pass like the FDA source says. The reason you're not getting high off of Vyvanse could just be because you have very little of this bacteria in your body, or if it is broken down by a completely different enzyme/bacteria/whatever, then you could be deficient in that. That is honestly the only possible reason I can think that you're not getting high off of Vyvanse. Perhaps try a therapeutic amount, if it doesn't work at all it's something you can bring up with your doctor. I should probably tell you I really know nothing about biology and all of this shit that I just typed could be absolute nonsense. Anyway I hope I helped in some way, I usually wouldn't put so much effort into researching something for this site but I might end up on Vyvanse myself for ADHD, so I thought this might have been useful for me to know anyways.

    I'm really curious to see how this drug will effect me the next time I take it recreationally. I've decided to get off of Lexapro because all it does is make me apathetic and emotionless so I think it would be a good decision regardless; and if that does nothing in regard to the recreational effects of Vyvanse then I will post it in this thread.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Take2 View Post
    Whoops i posted my reply in the wrong place i think. I say yes, thats a super high dose of lexapro. Were you not a total drooling zombie on that much?
    Oh yes lol. Like I was just saying, Lexapro makes me completely apathetic towards everything and emotionless. I can't feel empathy for people, sadness, anger..nothing. A terrible medication to say the least.
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    #13
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    I'm a little bit late to the party, but I'll give my opinion. In the future, try to not phrase your threads as "how/why/can I get messed up/high/fucked up", just because we like to try to maintain a veiled sense of professionalism and scholarship here. I know this sounds like bullshit, but maybe try "why does Vyvanse not effect me in the same way as...".

    Anyway, it's my opinion that the Escitalopram (Lexapro) probably blunted the more intense symptoms of Amphetamine intoxication that you're used to experiencing. This doesn't seem to be a uniform experience, but I always found even low doses of SSRI's to blunt the Amphetamine experience. You could definitely say that being on SSRI's lowers the recreational potential of Amphetamines for me significantly.

    I would try again after giving yourself several days free of the SSRI and see what happens.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Keif' Richards View Post
    I'm a little bit late to the party, but I'll give my opinion. In the future, try to not phrase your threads as "how/why/can I get messed up/high/fucked up", just because we like to try to maintain a veiled sense of professionalism and scholarship here. I know this sounds like bullshit, but maybe try "why does Vyvanse not effect me in the same way as...".

    Anyway, it's my opinion that the Escitalopram (Lexapro) probably blunted the more intense symptoms of Amphetamine intoxication that you're used to experiencing. This doesn't seem to be a uniform experience, but I always found even low doses of SSRI's to blunt the Amphetamine experience. You could definitely say that being on SSRI's lowers the recreational potential of Amphetamines for me significantly.

    I would try again after giving yourself several days free of the SSRI and see what happens.
    My fault for the way I phrased the thread; but yeah I'm definitely going to give Vyvanse a second shot without the SSRI being in my system. My expectations are to have an experience similar to Dexedrine just without the rush. Let's see if I get the experience that I'm hoping for with this.
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    #15
    Wasn't Vyvanse designed specifically to be less abusable? If you're used to straight Adderall/dex, that might just be your problem.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozle View Post
    Wasn't Vyvanse designed specifically to be less abusable? If you're used to straight Adderall/dex, that might just be your problem.
    It was designed to be less abusable in the sense that you can't snort the drug or IV it. Orally the drug turns into normal Dextroamphetamine so theoretically it should give the same high, just without the rush that would get from immediate release Dextroamphetamine.
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    #17
    How did the effects compare to those of Adderall XR?
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    #18
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    Perhaps take is a sign from the the universe?
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozle View Post
    How did the effects compare to those of Adderall XR?
    They aren't comparable in the slightest. Adderall is better for recreation in every. single. way.
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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCollegeTweaker View Post
    They aren't comparable in the slightest. Adderall is better for recreation in every. single. way.
    Meh, this is mostly a placebo thing, because Lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) is nothing more than Dextroamphetamine once it is metabolized in the way it was designed to. I've never been a major speed freak. I've used Amphetamines in the past for utilitarian purposes and whenever I do things like play shows. I don't need to insufflat or inject my Amphetamines to get a really good buzz. Given my history, I would probably take Lisdexamphetamine over most other commercially available Amphetamine products.

    I just get way too geeked out by Racemic Amphetamine preparations and I find the comedown phase to be more severe. I just feel that Dextroamphetamine including Lisdexamphetamine are the best Amphetamine products out there.
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    #21
    Right on Keif. Vyvanse rocks out with its cock out! Its only supposed to get you high enough to produce more seritonin back into your frontal lobes and manage the brain's receptors distorted by prolonged drug use. Its these receptors when enlarged that makes you crave, and the larger from frequent use, the harder the crave
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    #22
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    The thing is, there's no reason to pharmacologically differentiate Lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) from Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine). Granted, the introduction of the Dextroamphetamine into the body is going to follow a more protracted path, but even according to the medical literature, once metabolized, Lisdexamphetamine follows the exact same pharmacokinetics of Dextroamphetamine.

    We could probably use a hand from someone more acquainted with pharmacology, but I would venture to say that there are probably some people out there, with some kind of anomaly, that makes them less able to cleave the parent drug from the prodrug. We know that with many other substances, variables such as enzyme activity can greatly affect the potency/duration of various drugs, making some people virtually "immune" to some drugs, while others are affected in a very strong way.

    I'd like to know more about this, but my knowledge is tapped at this point. I'm considering moving this to Neuroscience. Are there any objections?
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