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Thread: (4-AcO-EPT / 30mg) - 1st Time - Self-contained and Smiling at Reality

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    (4-AcO-EPT / 30mg) - 1st Time - Self-contained and Smiling at Reality 
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    4-AcO-EPT - 30mg - Oral - First Time

    INTRO:

    Before reading too much into this report, bear in mind that at the time I tested the 4-AcO-EPT, I had been on a daily regimen of 900mg of St. John's Wort from Enzymatic Therapy for a month, and that could have affected the experience. If it did interact, I would have expected it to blunt rather than potentiate the effects, but you never know. Several hours prior to dosing, I also drank a quarter of a very strong energy drink that contained yohimbine HCl, which may possibly have interacted.

    As a basis for comparison, I have had several experiences with 4-AcO-MET, 4-HO-MET, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT, and 4-HO-MiPT. I find 4-AcO-MET to be easy to handle, and enjoy 30-40mg staggered doses. I don't enjoy 4-HO-MiPT, but a common dose for me is 12-20mg to reach a quite manageable if weird ++. 4-subbed-DMT is magical, but unlike the other two will take me deep, wiping out my ego and trancing me out as the doses creep higher into +++ terrain. As much as I value them, I've suspected for a while that the 4-substituted tryptamines produce a lingering deleterious effect on my consciousness and personality if used frequently. To be frank, I worry that they may make me a little distant and socially weird. Whether or not that's the case, I haven't had any issues since discontinuing them.

    Consequently, I've stuck to 5-substituted tryptamines, tryptamine bases, and lighter phenethylamines over the last year or so, as they seem to be more neutral or life-affirming to my psyche. Reports of the classiness of EPT and it's four substitutions made me curious, however. I decided to explore the terrain to see if it would be a useful tool for me. I was particularly intrigued by reports that suggested that it was relaxing, narcotic, and sedating, as I'm not a fan of stimulation during psychedelic experiences. This turned out not to be true for me. Based on my first experience, I can't say for sure if it will be useful, but I doubt it. I'll have to revisit it at a lower dose someday. Nonetheless, it was definitely a worthwhile experience, and one heck of a unique ride.

    TIMELINE:

    +0:00 - Dosed 30mg on an empty stomach - alert within a couple minutes
    +0:25 - Onset
    +0:50 - Still rising
    +~1:10 - Peak
    +3:00 - Plateau (comes and goes in waves)
    +4:00 - Coming down
    +7:00 - Stimulation ends, sleep is possible
    Afterglow - Some next day weirdness present during the morning, not pronounced

    REPORT:

    The actual report required some heavy editing, as I struggled to organize my thoughts during the experience. Sorry for the low quality - this one was hard to piece together. I'd like to revisit this a time or two before reporting out, but I don't think I will anytime soon and there aren't a lot of reports on this yet.

    6:09 PM - Parachuted a ~30mg weighed dose of a material sold as 4-AcO-EPT for the first time on an empty stomach. I alert within a couple minutes with a feeling of slight light-headedness and a tiny hint of excited energy, which is typical.

    My blood sugar is low despite having two substantial meals. I was hungry two hours ago, but ate some chocolate, some marzipan, and some cookies. My hands are cold, so I know I'm still hungry. Low blood sugar does not lead to positive experiences for me in general. Mood is good, I'm well-slept and relaxed.

    6:25 - Ate two tablespoons of peanut butter, a little butter, and some milk in lieu of dinner.

    6:45 Ten minutes ago, onset hit. It was light and energetic, not sedating as I'd thought it might be. A little more naturalistic and a little *more* stimulating than 4-AcO-MET. Visuals are subdued. Headspace is nice--shame about the stimulation. The experience is stronger than I thought it would be, at least stimulation wise. I'm glad I didn't dose higher to start.

    7- CEVs are light and delicate, organic. Banners of arabic caligraphy in black and pastel neon colors. Lots of sine wave themes. OEVS are not spectacular, but they're definitely present. Repeating patterns popping out of the floor tiles, and such. Blurring and color shifting. Not pronounced. The stimulation is still present in the form of an intense anxious energy in the body. My mind is calm, which is strange alongside the somatic sensation of anxiety, much like I'd had too much caffeine. It's an easy but annoying stimulation. There is the suggestion of crampiness, but unlike 2C-T-2, no actual cramping. I take some magnesium. I'm approaching the peak, I believe. I also take some sublingual CBD to try to blunt the stimulation a bit.

    7:10 - I felt comforted by my friend's presence in the same house when I became aware of it during the peak, even if I wasn't really sure what my friend was. I knew that they were a kind and benevolent presence, though, and that I was grateful for that presence in my life in general and in the present moment. During the comeup, I was beginning to disappear into the wall of music, when I remembered that my friend had taken 5-MeO-MiPT in part to try to deepen our emotional connection this evening. Realizing that I should spend time with them, I left the safety of my bedroom to go hang out. I quickly realized that was not going to be possible, and resigned myself to returning to the safety of my bed and classical music. Being around video games was too frenetic with the stimulation that i was experiencing, and the repetitive drum and bass sounds of the chillout album playing in the rest of the house started to derange me. I needed something cinematic and expansive to form the backdrop of my experience, something with organic, relatable, human sounds. Fortunately, the radio was playing pieces that sounded like 1950s Disney cartoon soundtracks, providing me with a natural and organic backdrop that then became an extension of my body, then nothing more than an unnoticed but essential bodily function like digestion.

    8-15 The peak is still going strong. I'm still tremory, but it's a delicate shakiness. The tremor with methallylescaline is worse, but the feeling of energy in the body is better on MAL. Stimulation is starting to abate a bit, but I'm still at a +++. I would have enjoyed using this evening to spend quality time with my partner, but I'm too remote for interaction. I'm not at the aphasia point, but I can't really converse. It's a struggle, whereas letting my sense of self dissolve into a blank slate is much more comfortable. I think I could have taken a much lower dosage, but this is fine, but this is fine.

    The level of psycholysis I'm reckoning with is in par with that of mushrooms, which was unexpected based on other's reports of this being 'boring' to many regardless of dose, of not quite breaking through. For me, most concepts have blurred into a flat matte. My sense of self dissolved into classical music, which became an extension of my body. I lost touch with my bodily needs and functions. I wasn't sure how to operate my orifices in order to pass gass, what they were, or even if they were "mine." At times I suspected that I was experiencing thirst or the need to urinate, but I wasn't quite sure what that meant or how to deal with those sense-perceptions. The erotic is inconceivable and this impossible. Erection is impossible. It's not anerotic, per se, Its just too strong. I don't know how what it means to be in a body. Given how far out I am, I think I'm going to be tripping for some time. I've had to bury myself in the covers because the stimulating body energy feels so cool in temperature to me, icier even than 4-AcO-MET

    If 2C-D were deep and a tryptamine, it would feel like this. It has a similarly light, effervescent personality to the space, with a similar color palette and brightness to it. 2C-D is lighter, sharper, and crisper while this space feels smooth, blunt, and implacable. The visuals are similar, too. I think the CBD was a real godsend to even me out. I can tell I should probably eat and that that won't be happening this evening.

    9:30 I got up a minute ago to try to take care of some bodily functions quickly during a moment of relative lucidity. I realize that my blood sugar is dropping, so I eat another scoop of peanut butter with some milk. I resolved to attempt to have an orgasm for the sake of science, but I didn't know where i was even going to begin. Erection was extremely difficult to get going, but eventually porn got me that far. Orgasm was almost impossible, but eventually achieved after considerable effort. Orgasmic sensation wasn't enhanced, but the mental stillness of orgasm was absolute and endured for a very long time, making for a very long orgasmic experience of total stillness and absorption. I have no idea what this would be like at a lower dose, but like 2C-D I don't suspect that it will be either inherently erotic or anerotic.

    10:05 - The descent first began to be perceptible, faintly, about an hour ago. This has been coming in waves for at least two hours, with moments of increasing lucidity giving way to swells of loss of identity, the dissolution of self. I just had to remind myself each time that I was not really sobering up, I was just getting a minute to reflect before diving in again. I don't know if I could have written much of anything throughout the peak and much of the plateau, so I'll have to describe it in retrospect.
    This is the most mundane psychedelic, as in the opposite of magical. There was nothing mystical, cosmic, or supernatural about the feel of the space it elicited. Fortunately for me, it's resolutely kind and positive in temperament, as it has melted me away in a way I haven't experienced in a long time, probably since the last time I had mushrooms. The intensity was comparable to the border between a common and strong mushroom experience, but lacking the mystical, cosmic elements. Everything felt self-contained and contented in a way, mentally and physically. I was self-contained, not reaching out to the outside world nor drawing it inwards. I felt possessed by a benign but removed personality.

    Fortunately for me, this is a psychedelic that allows me to "power down" when it gets overly intense, basically just to surrender to the visions and withdraw inwardly as if I were dropping into sleep. I can then wait for everything to pass from an impassive state. Mushrooms also permit this, but many others are not this forgiving. I could also sometimes shake it off to be somewhat functional for a short spell if I needed to be, but it was still very much +++ terrain.

    The space seems young, feminine, motherly, kind, and nurturing. I've been seeing lots of breast and buttock imagery in addition to lots of sine curves (although there were some pretty extravagant organic visions of very human earth goddess personifications for a while.) While a kind substance and a unique space, I don't know what I'd use it for. For something this psycholytic, it was utterly devoid of insight. I wasn't looking for anything going in, to be fair, and I wasn't able to organize my thoughts enough during the experience to direct them somewhere productive. Perhaps it would be different at a significantly lower dose, but it's strange contented and self-contained character makes me think that it wouldn't lend itself naturally to self-inquiry. Even the visionary component doesn't feel like seeking; it feels more like dissolution, a dissolution that I can't recall anything from, kind of like smoked DMT is hard to pull anything meaningful back from sometimes.

    I wasn't expecting an experience of this intensity, given how disappointed most people were with lower doses, trying higher and higher doses to get somewhere that it wouldn't take them. Well, it took me enough of somewhere and did so gently (apart from the highly anxious-feeling body energy early and through the peak that was oddly divorced from my mental state of calm. It would have been easy to feel anxious simply based on my how my body felt.

    Noticing a little bit of hunger. Been getting mild gas cramps, but not bad. I think I had quite a bit of jaw tension all night, but only just sobered enough to notice. I had been thinking all night that I would probably need a benzo to sleep eventually, but now I think I may just be happy with some wine.

    Music was important, but strangely blank. It was agonizingly personal and sweet at times, but mostly I was lost. I was as impervious to it as if I were a wall, lost internally somewhere I couldn't really recall. I just remember that where I was was fine. I can see why this could be called opiate-like in that it recreates the motherly, kind nurturing feel, the "I am cared for and do not need to grasp or flee anything" of being cradled by caregiver. I have heard it described this way, but it sounds too soft, too cotton ball padded. The space is not fluffy or warm (it's actually quite cold). Nor is it inviting, it is simply blunted of hard edges and happily self-contained, I guess. Man, this is a tough one to describe--especially based on a single experience. I've never experienced a psychedelic like this, but it's definitely a tryptamine. I have't had many 4-subs lately, but miprocin never took me anywhere deep like this. Concepts melted completely.

    4-AcO-MET is nothing like this, nor is 4-HO-MiPT. This had a weird impersonal quality to it, in some senses it was like I was possessed. I brushed very distantly against delerium for a brief moment, which was interesting (I've only experienced that from mushrooms and 2C-T-7 before.) Mushrooms, ayahuasca, 5-MeO-MiPT -- they have an emotional warmth and a personal accessibility and a vulnerability to their space. This put something solid and comfortable and pleasant in the place of where my emotional core was, but rendered it untouchable. My friend had taken 5-MeO-MiPT and was weirded out by my vibe. I could totally see why at the time, but couldn't do anything about it. I just emanated that vibe, but I couldn't reach out and connect. I was in a good place, but my energy feel was contained and so there couldn't be interplay. I couldn't accept the invitation even though I wasn't actually rejecting. I wish I had explored this with my friend at the same time, because that would have eliminated awkwardness and given me another person to confer with to try to better communicate the essence of this unusual experience.

    I've blathered on quite a bit about the dissolution of self, but the other axis that kept being touched on was time. I lost any sense of what it meant, then I kept reimagining it in a very powerful and immediate way. It was less frequent and intense than the self stuff, but still prominent. My tenses are all messed up, and I'm unable to piece together a coherent chronology. Time doesn't seem to be dilated, though.

    10:30 - Been writing this for a half an hour now and haven't noticed any more waves of intensity, so the come down is in effect as I thought it was at 10. Surprisingly, I don't feel drained. Still, with a comporable mushroom experience I would be wrung out and ready for sleep. I feel pretty vital, acually. My pupils, strangely, never dilated that I noticed (although I wasn't looking during the peak.) Strangely, the rooms of the house that are warmly lit and colored are comfortable and mundane, but the brightly, cooly lit rooms with fairy lights seem to kick my visuals and sense of strangeness back up again.

    12:37 - Three glasses of wine in, I still feel great, but the residual euphoric stimulation precludes sleep. Don't reall want to drink myself into a hangover. This is something to start earlier in the day. Like running a marathon, I feel much more positively about the experience in retrospect than I did during the experience (which was distinctly mixed.) Earlier, I couldn't imagine repeating this experience. Now, realizing the short peak and benevolent character, I can. I just can't for the life of me imagine a reason why. It was a fascinating experience, entirely acceptable, but I haven't seen any utility nor have I seen any hedonistic value. It was simply a remarkable and unique tool for exploring the psyche, and for that it's A grade material. I may repeat at a lower dose, or perhaps vaporize it to titrate slowly up and test the waters at the lower levels, but at this level it was to much to be useful and too strangely centered, too 'equanimitous'. There was no need to engage or connect with the outside world, just regard it with endless humor and sympathy.

    I had some nitrous a little bit ago now that I'm safely back to familiar tripping terrain. While nitrous isn't normally funny, it did lead to a hilarious joke that I sadly could not bring back entirely. I remember it was a perspective punchline with four levels of remove, then punctuated by two factors of removal on top of that. There was a sly, enjoyable humor to the whole experience that I don't think I remarked on. My friend remarked on my weird smile. I think this may be the most far gone that they've seen me, or at least the most they've tried to interact with me while I was so far out. My friend said that they thought it was kind of funny.

    1AM - Suddenly drunk. I had to dump out the beer I just opened. In bed and asleep within minutes.

    Next day: Awoke refreshed at my normal time, but decided to sleep in until 7:30. Felt a slight hangover headache and felt still slightly altered, but that disappeared by noon. Very mild headache persisted off and on for at least 72 hours afterwards. It could plausibly have been the alcohol, but it could also have been the 4-AcO-EPT


    tl;dr It's a weird, self-contained space that I found very interesting, but the experience was too strong for me to bring much back from, a bit surprising considering the modest dosage.

    substancecode_4acoept
    substancecode_tryptamines
    explevel_firsttime
    roacode_oral
    exptype_positive
    exptype_neutral
    Last edited by Pfafffed; 08-01-2018 at 20:51.
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    #2
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    Wow, great report, thanks! Interesting about the duration, as all the reports I've read on 4-HO-EPT have indicated a very short duration. Generally the acetoxy renders these things a bit longer-lasting but still surprising the difference would be so great. Ever tried 4-HO-EPT for comparison? Also yeah considering the reports of dosage with 4-HO-EPT, I'm also surprised that 30mg was so strong for you.

    Sounds like a pretty unique experience. I haven't tried any of the EPTs yet, I hope to in the future though.
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    I've never tried 4-HO-EPT, and probably won't be able to find the time and enthusiasm to source it. I know you know all this, but from what I've read, most reports find 4-AcO substitutions to be either (a) identical, or (b) slightly longer, slightly smoother, slightly less chaotic, and slightly less meaningful. It also seems like they're usually more stable and less hygroscopic, not that that matters too much when you've got the fumarate salt, I guess. I've only been able to compare 4-AcO/HO-DMT and 4-AcO/HO-MET, but each separated by too much time to really get a good feel for whether or not there was a real difference. The only 4-sub that I've heard people emphatically say there was a difference between was 4-AcO/HO-DiPT, but I never was really clear on what that difference was.

    The drop off in intensity was pretty major after the fourth hour (3hrs after the peak started.) I imagine if I had had a lighter experience that I might have felt like I was down at that point instead of at an easygoing ++.
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    From what I can tell, peoples' reactions to the AcO/HO differences vary, and my theory is that some people metabolically convert the acetoxy to the hydroxy faster than others, and these are the people for whom much or most of it crosses the BBB as the hydroxy. But I also think that the acetoxy esters are fully able to cross the BBB themselves, so if you convert them more slowly, you'll be getting more of a difference experience. I've noticed some differences in some of the pairs, and I can confirm that for me there is quite a difference between 4-HO-DiPT and 4-AcO-DiPT. But the biggest difference for me is 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT (I've had the pure synthetic psilocin and tried them close to each other too). They're very different drugs for me, and for some others too, but not for everyone. For me I am sure I could tell the difference every time in a double blind study, they just don't even feel the same, except for the second half after the peak drops off, then they're very similar.

    Anyway just drug nerding out a little I guess.
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