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    Withdrawal? Or something else? 
    #1
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    Need input - day #2 off opiates; had abdominal cramps & diarrhea abruptly last night and this morning. Chilling, achy. Could be flu - who knows? Never had this before - how do i tell the difference?
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    #2
    How long were you using opiates? Which opiate and at what dose?

    It sounds like withdrawals to me, but the more info you can provide the better.
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    #3
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    hyrdocodone, oxycodone, and codeine recently. about 6 days 2-3 x a day. no more than 30mg HC, 20mg OC, or 210mg codeine per dose. also a bit hypertensive (though this isn't necessarily new). never had withdrawals before, but never used more than 4 days in a row, either.
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    #4
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    hyrdocodone, oxycodone, and codeine recently. about 6 days 2-3 x a day. no more than 30mg HC, 20mg OC, or 210mg codeine per dose. also a bit hypertensive (though this isn't necessarily new). never had withdrawals before, but never used more than 4 days in a row, either.
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    #5
    Bluelighter
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    Those doses, types of opiates and length of time using them before stopping shouldn't cause anything severe. You might feel a little irritable or shitty, but certainly shouldn't be having diarrhea and cramping. Very odd. Try taking some immodium and see if that helps.

    Good luck,
    -MF4M
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MoreFeens4Morphine View Post
    Those doses, types of opiates and length of time using them before stopping shouldn't cause anything severe. You might feel a little irritable or shitty, but certainly shouldn't be having diarrhea and cramping. Very odd. Try taking some immodium and see if that helps.

    Good luck,
    -MF4M
    I second that notion.

    But just to clarify one thing, OP. You say you’ve never used more than 4 days in a row. And this time was 6 days in a row...

    About how regular an occasion are those 4 day binges? If we’re talking something like 4 days on, a day off, 4 days on, another day off... etc... a routine like that would be a different story, and would have potential for dependency and withdrawals. I don’t THINK that’s what you meant, but just want to double check.
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    #7
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    Mostly use on weekends, but as everyone else has warned, some weekends spill into the next week. Most usage 3 days but occ 4. This was first 6. Believe me i now understand the dangerous allure (and spiral) of opiates.
    i also understand why ppl dont quit.
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    #8
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    Answered my own question. Better after some HC.
    <sigh> will have to deal with the next few days and re- eval use.
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    #9
    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    yeah, the more you use - and the more times you go through WD, the worse it gets.

    good luck
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    #10
    Bluelighter Tzcatlipoca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melena View Post
    Answered my own question. Better after some HC.
    <sigh> will have to deal with the next few days and re- eval use.
    I answered your PM, you could consider dissociatives or speed if you're having trouble kicking the HC, I found pure ice(dextromethamphatemine) always helps me kick opiate dependency.
    Best,
    Tez
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    #11
    Sounds likely to be caused by your brief use of opioids and abrupt cessation. But with the very limited/minimal use you describe and your current experiences, even "minor withdrawals" seems like too strong of wording.....more like rebound. Don't dig yourself in bud- it can and will get much worse.

    -PA
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzcatlipoca View Post
    I answered your PM, you could consider dissociatives or speed if you're having trouble kicking the HC, I found pure ice(dextromethamphatemine) always helps me kick opiate dependency.
    Best,
    Tez
    OP, I would strongly advise you not use amphetamines to kick opioid dependency. Chances are good you either wind up addicted to both..or if you're better than most of us, you wind up simply addicted to amphetamines alone. It's very unwise, foolish judgement and likely to result in undesirable circumstances. Do not try to kick an opioid addiction with powerful psychostimulants such as amphetamines.

    -PA
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    #13
    Bluelighter Tzcatlipoca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetualAnhedonic View Post
    OP, I would strongly advise you not use amphetamines to kick opioid dependency. Chances are good you either wind up addicted to both..or if you're better than most of us, you wind up simply addicted to amphetamines alone. It's very unwise, foolish judgement and likely to result in undesirable circumstances. Do not try to kick an opioid addiction with powerful psychostimulants such as amphetamines.

    -PA
    PA I sincerely disagree with your disrespectful post.
    First of all amphetamines help clear out depressants and have been utilized in combatting respiratory depression and saving individuals from depressant overdose successfully.
    Second, if four days of amphetamine usage results in addiction then I have news for you: You need something called willpower.
    Third, if amphetamines are not your cup of tea then I suggest utilizing dissociatives. In any case cannabis will be helpful.

    Tez.
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    #14
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    Dont think i will use anything to help me through - i can withstand a lot of physical discomfort. Just needed to know if that was what i was dealing with. Knowing what to expect is half the battle; not as scared now.
    Scary that i have developed a habit that caused withdrawal, but no longer scared of symptoms.
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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzcatlipoca View Post
    PA I sincerely disagree with your disrespectful post.
    First of all amphetamines help clear out depressants and have been utilized in combatting respiratory depression and saving individuals from depressant overdose successfully.
    Second, if four days of amphetamine usage results in addiction then I have news for you: You need something called willpower.
    Third, if amphetamines are not your cup of tea then I suggest utilizing dissociatives. In any case cannabis will be helpful.

    Tez.
    Tez, tez, tez. What am I gonna do with you? If smacking you lightly on the nose with a newspaper were an option, I feel we would be at that stage. I don't think P-A was necessarily being disrespectful, but again, this could be a translation issue. What would be considered offensive would be telling someone that "they need willpower". It's definitely not common or even medically ethical to use Amphetamines to revive someone who has stopped breathing. Maybe back in the day, like, ~1905, but not in recent memory or even your Great Grandmother's recent memory.

    The rest is a matter of opinion largely, but Amphetamines are almost certainly contraindicated when experiencing Opioid withdrawal. It's a recipe for making you feel disproportionately shitty. Some will have better experiences, but it's the far more common scenario that the negative effects of the Amphetamine are overshadowed by the positive.
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    #16
    Bluelighter Tzcatlipoca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keif' Richards View Post
    Tez, tez, tez. What am I gonna do with you? If smacking you lightly on the nose with a newspaper were an option, I feel we would be at that stage. I don't think P-A was necessarily being disrespectful, but again, this could be a translation issue. What would be considered offensive would be telling someone that "they need willpower". It's definitely not common or even medically ethical to use Amphetamines to revive someone who has stopped breathing. Maybe back in the day, like, ~1905, but not in recent memory or even your Great Grandmother's recent memory.

    The rest is a matter of opinion largely, but Amphetamines are almost certainly contraindicated when experiencing Opioid withdrawal. It's a recipe for making you feel disproportionately shitty. Some will have better experiences, but it's the far more common scenario that the negative effects of the Amphetamine are overshadowed by the positive.
    Dearest Keif'Richards, following your admonitions I withdraw my advice, OP please disregard my suggestion to consider amphetamines.
    I honestly don't mean to drive this issue further, however in my honest opinion a comment such as "It's very unwise, foolish judgement and likely to result in undesirable circumstances" is very disrespectful, and informing said author of the necessity of willpower is merely a required correction and is in no way offensive whatsoever.
    Also please clear some inbox space as I wished to send an apology PM and failed because your inbox quota is full.
    Best regards,
    Tez
    Last edited by Tzcatlipoca; 13-01-2018 at 17:18. Reason: content
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    #17
    Administrator spacejunk's Avatar
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    Edit - i started writing this before keif posted his reply, and then yours, tez.
    Apologies for covering some of the same ground - but i agree with keif, that PA wasn't being rude.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tzcatlipoca View Post
    PA I sincerely disagree with your disrespectful post.
    First of all amphetamines help clear out depressants and have been utilized in combatting respiratory depression and saving individuals from depressant overdose successfully.
    Second, if four days of amphetamine usage results in addiction then I have news for you: You need something called willpower.
    Third, if amphetamines are not your cup of tea then I suggest utilizing dissociatives. In any case cannabis will be helpful.

    Tez.
    I don't think PA was being disrespectful at all - i think they're making a really important point.

    We're talking about addiction here - the OP's first habit, and first experience with addiction.

    Even if they're an experienced poly-drug user, telling them to take methamphetamine is dangerous advice.
    It's an escalationc to (as PA said) a drug that can cause a lot of serious problems.

    I know some people find amphetamine helpful for opiate WD, but please - we are discussing addiction here; it's a serious subject we need to show one another courtesy and respect.
    It's not respectful to dismiss concerns about meth addiction by saying "you need something called willpower".

    That's really not a helpful thing to say, and I think you're doing the thing you're accusing PA of.

    The addictive potential of meth is no joke - it's not the same as opiate addiction, and it really just takes one dose to set someone off on the compulsive path of meth addiction.

    I know some people get relief from WDs by taking meth, but i don't think i'd be game to try it.
    I mean, the sleeplessness, anxiety and edginess of WD is bad enough - i think taking something as strong as meth sounds like a major risk to me.
    when i have come off opiates, i often get very depressed. The idea of taking meth in a state like that - if you're already vilnerable, sleep deprived yand sick, taking a long-lasting stimulant like meth sounds really risky from a mental health point of view.
    Psychosis is no fun

    Honestly, when it comes to opiate withdrawal, i think you should stick to comfort meds.

    Yes, there are ways to really minimise withdrawal symptoms - but recommending methamphetamine to help someone detox from hydrocodone, codeine and/oxy - that's just not good harm reduction.
    Last edited by spacejunk; 13-01-2018 at 17:39.
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    #18
    Greenlighter Melena's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the advice. I dont have access to any ither DOA (not asking, just stating a fact) so not an option anyway. I will just stick to OTC regimens if i need anything.
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