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    Question about maximum codeine use. 
    #1
    Hello Bluelighters, I've tried to find info on this but not found anything solid. About codeine max use per day without wasting any that will be converted into morphine, I read that around 500mg is the most you could take that would be converted to morphine, the rest over that would just cause a histamine release. Does that mean not to take more than 500mg in 1 day? Or in 1 sitting?

    I guess what i'm trying to find out is, if one took say 300mg at mid day, 12 - 1pm, then 300mg at 8pm, would the 300mg at 8pm still be converted into morphine or would only 200mg be?

    Thanks and stay safe.
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    #2
    Bluelight Crew Scrofula's Avatar
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    Math isn't that simple. Depends too much on your ROA and your genes, plus all the other drugs and food you eat.

    One thing you don't need math for is to know that's too much codeine. 240mg spread out over the day, orally, is the max recommended.

    It is not possible to get 100% conversion, no matter what you do. That's just biology.
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    #3
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    500 isn't a magic number; half a gram is just a typical figure, not to go over, as a reasonable guidelines

    You could take 300mg, then a quarter gram 8-12hours later, and it should convert just fine if you are a regular metabolizer

    Use antihistamines with such codiene doses like Cetirizine, which is non-drowsy at low/recommended doses, however it is not a 2D inhibitor, like many 1st gen; diphenhydramine, effective first gen, however with daily use it is a 2Dinhibitor

    and of course, careful CWE's-that is a lot of codiene; if it were pure, you could probably take it every 7-12 hours PRN
    And remember CG, another active metabolite(to what degree?)
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    #4
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    Over 500ng per day is a bit much, however if CYP enzymes can knock out opioids in 2-3 hours, there is no reason to think 12 hours later you couldn't redoes with codiene and get morphine-Yes it is quite complicated, however a quarter gram isn't a magic number-400mg is the ceiling effect for Ibuprofen, yet people insist on Motrin 800's, and woefully misinformed doctors tell you you are wrong when you point this out
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    #5
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    What ROA? Doubt he is injecting into his muscles like Howard Hughes-pretty much that, or take it by mouth
    It is worth noting that IM administration is 1.5-2x as potent as PO, despite people thinking you need first pass metabolism for morphine-you don't, it's pre-hepatic extraction and what not
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    #6
    Yeah I didn't think it would be simple maths but just wanted to try get as much info as I could since i'll be stuck with codeine for the next week or so instead of my usual DHC. The ROA will be orally in the cough syrup form (5ml - 15mg codeine)
    I usually take around 600mg DHC throughout a day but i'm not hoping to really get a buzz off codeine - just to go without super bad WD's until I get my script.

    And also yeah I have anti histamines, i'm prescribed promethazine to aid with sleep and it also aids with my opiate endeavours

    Also I know 240mg is max recommended daily dose, I think it's around the same for DHC aswell, but I always end up taking 600mg sometimes more a day.
    Last edited by Scrofula; 20-02-2018 at 04:58.
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    #7
    Bluelight Crew Scrofula's Avatar
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    Lorne is typing right now that DHC, while it does convert to dihydromorphine, does so in such small amounts that you should think of it as a pure DHC experience. Which doesn't excite even me.

    I want to emphasize the difference between 240mg max. per day, and 300mg all at once: it is a big, uncomfortable one. The 240mg is qid. Also, try to keep your posts together.

    ROA matters generally for those reactions, like if you shoot a bolus and saturate something vs. the ER slowly spewing its drug-laden PEG into your intestines.

    ETA: he was telling you to skip those OG antihistamines if you're going for 100% morphine conversion, since they inhibit the enzyme you need. Promethazine is one of those.
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    #8
    Sorry the website edit function was being awkward and wouldn't let me edit my post. Yeah it doesn't exactly excite me much either but I've come down from Oxy to DHC, so i'm working my way slowly off them all together but i'm not quite ready to go through the WD's yet, hence why i'm stuck having to take codeine to stave off the WD's until I can get my script.. Since I take around 600mg DHC a day what would you recommend to dose with codeine to try keep WD's at bay? Thanks for your help too
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    #9
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    ^Merge my posts later

    and shc becomes dihydroheroin-seriously, diadihydrocodionone - tricky stuff though

    Yeah, you could take a gram of pure codiene per day(250mg qid) although, wouldn't recommend it

    Theb again, you would probably need at least half a gram to make it worth it

    200-300mg, PRN 2-3x per day seems, less uncomfortable

    Wonder how much Howard Hughes injected into his muscles? Weird he would choose codiene, when morphine should have been plentiful then -Any thoughts?

    Oh wait a question - sorry ��

    Unfortunately you can't top half a gram of DHC with codiene; the max dose should stave wd, although as Scrofula said, it is stupid complicated for an opiate that isn't a big hitter

    Try 300-400mg as a loading dose, and then, 7-12 hours later, take slightly less? Really, she is supposed to be 1.5-2x as potent as codiene, and you can't take a gram, or even a very large dose all at once-if your an extensive metabolizer it should work for a day or two, if your an ultra rapid metabolizer, your (somewhat) lucky, otherwise, it should help, to what degree????
    Don't go over the max dose in one sitting, and get Cetirizine, because that is a lot of histamine - be careful
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    #10
    yeah I didn't expect to be able to get the same feeling as 600mg DHC as I know it's more potent, anyway, today is judgment day. First day without DHC in a long time, all I have is this damn codeine linctus cough syrup, I can already feel the pain in my legs, wd's starting to come in. I usually take 300mg as a starting dose for DHC, i'm not sure how big the histamine release is in codeine compared to DHC. I just don't want to go through the wd's... I have some anti histamnes (promethazine) and I won't be taking any of that until the codeine has fully taken effect.

    Is 300mg a bit high of a starting dose? I don't want to just burn out into a huge histamine release, but at the same time I don't want to be fighting wd's straight for the next few days

    edit: I will get some cetirizine from the local pharmacy. and I will be careful

    edit 2: cetirizine is hella expensive, is there a cheaper alternative?
    Last edited by thatrandomdude; 20-02-2018 at 14:47.
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    #11
    Bluelight Crew SS373dOH's Avatar
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    Yes that is a big dose..

    Threshold 30 - 50 mg
    Light 50 - 100 mg
    Common 100 - 150 mg
    Strong 150 - 200 mg
    Heavy 200 mg +
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    #12
    Thanks that's pretty helpful. I took about 150mg and it is atleast holding the withdrawals at bay or so it seems for now. Is there a cheap alternative to any 2nd gen antihistamine? Cetirizine is extremely expensive. Would a pharmacy own brand do? Or are they 1st gen? Thanks for al your help guys.
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS373dOH View Post
    Yes that is a big dose..

    Threshold 30 - 50 mg
    Light 50 - 100 mg
    Common 100 - 150 mg
    Strong 150 - 200 mg
    Heavy 200 mg +
    Yeah, I'm not sure about the validity of that chart ...
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    #14
    it seems people have differing opinions on dosing, I do have a tolerance to DHC, (I usually dose 300mg at a time then another 300mg throughout the day) but i'm not sure if tolerance to DHC converts to tolerance to codeine
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by thatrandomdude View Post
    Thanks that's pretty helpful. I took about 150mg and it is atleast holding the withdrawals at bay or so it seems for now. Is there a cheap alternative to any 2nd gen antihistamine? Cetirizine is extremely expensive. Would a pharmacy own brand do? Or are they 1st gen? Thanks for al your help guys.
    Boots Hay Fever And Allergy Relief tablets are cetrrizine and aren't expensive at all...just a few quid for a box if 14..

    For some bizzare reason (that makes no sense) you can't mention the price of an over the counter hayfever medication in this sub forum but Google it and you'll see what I mean
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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_25 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure about the validity of that chart ...
    These are one time doses, you're suppose to titrate codeine. I believe 360mg is the suggested max daily dose.
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Backfromthebrink View Post
    Boots Hay Fever And Allergy Relief tablets are cetrrizine and aren't expensive at all...just a few quid for a box if 14..

    For some bizzare reason (that makes no sense) you can't mention the price of an over the counter hayfever medication in this sub forum but Google it and you'll see what I mean
    Don't have a boots around here the only pharmacy we have is Lloyds and they only sell boxes of 21 which is like 500% more expensive than other retailers I've seen.

    I'm not feeling too bad anyway I think I will have dosed about 200mg in the past 3 hours or so and not really had any histamine problems. How long is safe between doses, 5 or 6 hours?
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thatrandomdude View Post
    Don't have a boots around here the only pharmacy we have is Lloyds and they only sell boxes of 21 which is like 500% more expensive than other retailers I've seen.

    I'm not feeling too bad anyway I think I will have dosed about 200mg in the past 3 hours or so and not really had any histamine problems. How long is safe between doses, 5 or 6 hours?
    Do you have a Superdrug? They're even cheaper there...anywhere but Lloyds really...

    I hate Lloyds...There's a Lloyds attached to my doctors and when I used to go in to pick up pain medication they always asked me to produce photo ID even though I'd been in hundreds of times before and they knew me by name...

    I just used to refuse in principal just to piss them off lol.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by thatrandomdude View Post
    Don't have a boots around here the only pharmacy we have is Lloyds and they only sell boxes of 21 which is like 500% more expensive than other retailers I've seen.

    I'm not feeling too bad anyway I think I will have dosed about 200mg in the past 3 hours or so and not really had any histamine problems. How long is safe between doses, 5 or 6 hours?
    codeine is usually dosed 4 times a day so taking into account 8 hours when you're asleep, I'd say every 4 hours would he fine....4 - 6 hours really.
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Backfromthebrink View Post
    Do you have a Superdrug? They're even cheaper there...anywhere but Lloyds really...

    I hate Lloyds...There's a Lloyds attached to my doctors and when I used to go in to pick up pain medication they always asked me to produce photo ID even though I'd been in hundreds of times before and they knew me by name...

    I just used to refuse in principal just to piss them off lol.
    Yeah they know me by face and name at my local one too but they still ask me stupid things when I go in even though they know what my prescription is since I pick it up every week, can't stand them.

    The usual dose time is 4 hours I know, but that's when taking it 30-60mg at a time, not 200mg a time right?

    The only reason i'm taking damn codeine is to try stave off wd's from DHC which it isn't doing a great job at but I don't want to take too much and have a histamine release.
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by thatrandomdude View Post
    Yeah they know me by face and name at my local one too but they still ask me stupid things when I go in even though they know what my prescription is since I pick it up every week, can't stand them.

    The usual dose time is 4 hours I know, but that's when taking it 30-60mg at a time, not 200mg a time right?

    The only reason i'm taking damn codeine is to try stave off wd's from DHC which it isn't doing a great job at but I don't want to take too much and have a histamine release.
    Lol...yeah Lloyds are pain in the fucking arse...they used to deliberately give me the wrong kind if fentanyl patch and when I'd complain they'd say "well you've opened the bag now"...like how the fuck would I know what was in it if I hadn't opened the bag?

    With regard to your codeine..it kind of depends as people have different amounts of the enzyme that converts it to morphine but generally speaking (and it is only generaly) 600mg over a 24 hour period seems to be what most pain specialists recommend as the absolute maximum.. So as a guide if you're doing 200mg then I'd say 3 times a day

    Someone is bound to disagree here based in something they've read in a text book but I'm just going off an article I've just read which was a study based in a real pain patient by a real pain management doctor.

    Also there seems to be a degree of tollerence with regard to the histamine release....if you haven't experienced it on your first and second doses of the day, you're probably not going to at all.


    edit ...here is the case study where I got the 600mg figure from

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2231548/


    Quote "Codeine has a maximum recommended dose of 600 mg daily,?as it is dependent on the enzyme cytochrome P450 2D6 to metabolize it to norcodeine and to morphine, which is the actual analgesic."? .....

    which is taken from..Repchinsky C, editor. Codeine Contin product monograph.?Compendium of pharmaceuticals and specialties 2007.?Ottawa, ON: Canadian Pharmacists Association; 2007. p. 562.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Backfromthebrink View Post
    Lol...yeah Lloyds are pain in the fucking arse...they used to deliberately give me the wrong kind if fentanyl patch and when I'd complain they'd say "well you've opened the bag now"...like how the fuck would I know what was in it if I hadn't opened the bag?

    With regard to your codeine..it kind of depends as people have different amounts of the enzyme that converts it to morphine but generally speaking (and it is only generaly) 600mg over a 24 hour period seems to be what most pain specialists recommend as the absolute maximum.. So as a guide if you're doing 200mg then I'd say 3 times a day

    Someone is bound to disagree here based in something they've read in a text book but I'm just going off an article I've just read which was a study based in a real pain patient by a real pain management doctor.

    Also there seems to be a degree of tollerence with regard to the histamine release....if you haven't experienced it on your first and second doses of the day, you're probably not going to at all.


    edit ...here is the case study where I got the 600mg figure from

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2231548/


    Quote "Codeine has a maximum recommended dose of 600 mg daily,?as it is dependent on the enzyme cytochrome P450 2D6 to metabolize it to norcodeine and to morphine, which is the actual analgesic."? .....

    which is taken from..Repchinsky C, editor. Codeine Contin product monograph.?Compendium of pharmaceuticals and specialties 2007.?Ottawa, ON: Canadian Pharmacists Association; 2007. p. 562.
    Yeah it seems like there's a lot of different opinions on what the "maximum daily dose" should be, it's funny since I usually take DHC I don't think it has a ceiling dose and I've never really been into codeine before but I've learnt a hell of a lot about it today haha.
    I've drank about half the bottle (would equate to 300mg) in 5 hours or so and I've not really noticed any histamine reaction at all, but at the same time havn't really noticed it having any noticeable effect.

    Still got the pain in my legs but the rest of the usual WD symptoms seem to be at bay.. Although I still think the leg pain is the worst of them all.

    Since it only costs a tiny bit for a bottle I can't really complain anyway, but would much rather just be able to take my normal standard tablets instead of having to drink piss flavoured cough medicine.
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by thatrandomdude View Post
    Yeah it seems like there's a lot of different opinions on what the "maximum daily dose" should be, it's funny since I usually take DHC I don't think it has a ceiling dose and I've never really been into codeine before but I've learnt a hell of a lot about it today haha.
    I've drank about half the bottle (would equate to 300mg) in 5 hours or so and I've not really noticed any histamine reaction at all, but at the same time havn't really noticed it having any noticeable effect.

    Still got the pain in my legs but the rest of the usual WD symptoms seem to be at bay.. Although I still think the leg pain is the worst of them all.

    Since it only costs a tiny bit for a bottle I can't really complain anyway, but would much rather just be able to take my normal standard tablets instead of having to drink piss flavoured cough medicine.
    You're quite fortunate to have got codeine linctus at all nowadays as most chemists will try and fob you off with pholcodeine instead....which is next to useless for your purposes.

    How long do you have to wait until your next DHC script again?
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    #24
    Monday next week will be earliest I can get it I think, yeah I've tried in pharmacies previously and they all either said they didn't have it or recommended solpadeine cough syrup. There's plenty of online chemists that still sell the linctus though, at not too bad prices aswell but the shipping costs about the same as the product.
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by thatrandomdude View Post
    Monday next week will be earliest I can get it I think, yeah I've tried in pharmacies previously and they all either said they didn't have it or recommended solpadeine cough syrup. There's plenty of online chemists that still sell the linctus though, at not too bad prices aswell but the shipping costs about the same as the product.
    Yeah solpadine couch syrup is the pholcodeine which is useless for combating withdrawls.
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