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Thread: Did I get serotonin syndrome?

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    Did I get serotonin syndrome? 
    #1
    On Friday, I took 120mg of crystal MDMA, I have taken these same crystals several times before, an hour before this I had consumed about 7.5mg of diazepam for the come up, when I started coming up on the MDMA 30 minutes after consumption, I started feeling a really strong pulse, my heart rate went way up to 140bpm, I also felt really scared and anxious, I felt confused, nauseous, and with very big dilated pupils and I was shaking a lot, this scared me, I took my temperature and it was normal, I thought I had serotonin syndrome so since I know the treatment for SS is sedation with benzodiazepeines and cooling I took more diazepam and started cooling myself with a fan and ice, but maybe 20 or 30 minutes after this I started feeling better and I got the normal effects of mdma but blunted by the valium and my heart rate normalized, I have searched the forums and some people say this is normal during mdma come up but I dont know if this is normal to this extent, did I overreact or was it SS?
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    #2
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    No you did not get Serotonin Syndrome and the treatment for SS is NOT sedation with benzodiazepeines.
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Specified View Post
    No you did not get Serotonin Syndrome and the treatment for SS is NOT sedation with benzodiazepeines.
    Its not? In all case reports I see they give benzodiazepeines first to control agitation and myoclonus which worsens the hyperthermia hypertension and tachycardia, and then active cooling, followed by cyproheptadine which I also have but I didnt use, then treating any organ failure caused by hyperthermia etc... the reason I ask is because I saw a post by someone called First Bad Comedown that says that the first symptom of SS is tachycardia, was my experience normal for an MDMA comeup?
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    #4
    I think its within the VICINITY of normal, especially considering you took diazepam BEFORE. first time hearing that. I'd argue that the majority of the complication was the diazepam timing. benzos slow down neuronal firing and overall increase gaba while MDMA super surges your serotonin. being tugged in two places at once, hypertension sounds a little intense but nothing out of the ordinary, and I definitely sweat bullets during come ups and most of the peak. this seems normal. MDMA come ups aren't too anxious or bad, atleast not with quality MDMA. I would suggest saving the benzos until you feel that first blunt effect of the come down, and I bet most of those issues would go away. also though I've never heard of this before, I wouldn't be surprised if the stimulation from the MDMA gave the Benzo a paradoxical effect ( which is known to happen under totally different medical conditions), or more simply the synergy caused intense anxiety, even considering the Benzo use. diazepam is pretty light on the head too and mostly a body relaxant, I would imagine Xanax, or clonazepam or a various assortment of different benzos would help with anxiety more, but either way.....save it till after the MDMA hits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace
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    #5
    Thanks a lot lunchbox, if some people have experienced similar issues ln the MDMA come up I would like to know.
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Specified View Post
    No you did not get Serotonin Syndrome and the treatment for SS is NOT sedation with benzodiazepeines.
    This is not a good post, especially as it relates to harm reduction as it contains misinformation...

    Jared,

    All of those symptoms are consistent with a mild-moderate presentation of serotonin syndrome. It is good that you were aware of this possibility. Did you have a headache, or sweating? A more severe presentation would have consisted of hyperthermia as you are talking about, myoclonus/seizures, and possible loss of consciousness. Your pre-MDMA diazepam dose probably blunted the symptoms such as agitation and possible seizures. It was very smart to take your temperature and take another dose of diazepam. It sounds like you essentially treated likely SS at home and you were lucky that everything worked out okay. Now you know to be very careful in the future, and even more so if you are taking any other serotonergic drug.
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    #7
    Yes I did take my temperature, it was completely normal, and when I started the cooling it went lower than normal so I stopped, I didnt have any headaches or sweating. Only the symptoms I talked about, but I have taken much higher dosages of MDMA and I had been fine, so I dont understand what happened, I was not on any medication, only pre roll supplements and the diazepam... and some people say they get symptoms like this during an MDMA come up, so I am very confused, I know nobody can tell me what happened but I would like to hear more opinions as I am afraid and confused by this. I should also mention I have bad anxiety hence why I took the diazepam pre roll but I dont remember symptoms like this during other rolls at least not on the come up.
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    #8
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    You are not going to suffer from serotonin syndrome from a 120mg dose of MDMA unless you've been taking heavy duty monoamine oxidase inhibitors. I think the clue is that you suffer from anxiety. You were obviously nervous about the come up as you took diazepam beforehand - but 7.5mg isn't a particularly large dose so perhaps your anxiety just took over?
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    #9
    Hey FUBAR, ive read other posts from you on the forum, thanks for the contributions, I was no tMAOIs, I took milk thistle, magnesium, ginger, vitamin c and e, diazepam, alpha liphoic acid, coq10, garlic and beetroot for BP and that was it... I really felt I was in bad danger and that something was definetly wrong, I read in another thread where people took 5htp before their roll which is obviously a bad idea that they had similar symptoms that came in waves, exactly same thing happened to me, i would feel really bad for 15 mins then better for 10 then bad again until it settled, is it possible that I became hypersensitive to SS due to previous rolls? I have rolled 10 times in my life, last time was 3 months ago but I did a heavy dosage once and had some bad side effects, or was it just the comeup+anxiety? I remember during my first rolls I would get anxiety, tremors and slight tachycardia but nothing like this, do you guys have some these symptoms on mdma comeups? Thanks
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    #10
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    ^ I've no idea tbh. I'm one of those people that absolutely love the come up - I find it pure bliss. But I have known lots of people that regard the come up as something they have to endure before they can enjoy the experience.
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaredborgetti View Post
    Its not? In all case reports I see they give benzodiazepeines first to control agitation and myoclonus which worsens the hyperthermia hypertension and tachycardia, and then active cooling, followed by cyproheptadine which I also have but I didnt use, then treating any organ failure caused by hyperthermia etc... the reason I ask is because I saw a post by someone called First Bad Comedown that says that the first symptom of SS is tachycardia, was my experience normal for an MDMA comeup?
    I swear they don't give you benzodiazapines first hand suffering from serotonin syndrome myself inutbated for three days.
    I have papers showing when they were losing me and my blood pressure and all that and what they gave me but I can't be bothered getting it out, although if you want I can. I was very lucky to survived it.
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    #12
    Wow specified, thats horrible, you dont have to be so specific but if you dont mind I would like to know your story and what happened to you
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    #13
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    Basically I took MDMA and an irrevirsible MAOI, I had been taking it with Nardil for a while then my doctor increased my dose of Nardil to 4 pills which caused the serotonin syndrome. The papers I got from the Hospital are as thick as a book.
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    #14
    Can you tell me a little bit about the symptoms you got and what happened at hospital? And also if most interested in knowing if after that you were able ever again to take mdma or other serotonergic drugs or psychedelics without bad side effects? I think that with serotonin syndrome the benzos are give only as a preventive measure they reduce the risk of worsening hypthermia hypertension and tachycardia as well as preventing seizures so they can stop if from worsening if administered early but if the SS is already advanced with severe hyperthermia, organ failure etc... they will probably be of little use except with IV diazepam or midazolam for seizures.
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    #15
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    Overheating, my temperature was something like 42 degreez. I can't remember what happened at the hospital because i was intubated straight away and was for 3 days. Yes I made a thread on bluelight telling them about it and if i was able to take any more MDMA. they all said a big no, but i took it anyway and nothing happened but you shouldn't do the same thing just cos nothing happened to me. Yes my SS was already advanced with severe hyperthermia, organ failure etc
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    #16
    Yeah im not thinking about doing it again, sorry I cant find your thread, if you could link it it would be great, if not just last question, when you took MDMA or psychedelics again, you were able to enjoy it just like before without bad symptoms?
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    #17
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    Yes I was able to enjoy it just like before without bad symptoms.
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    #18
    Thank you and glad you were ok after all. Take care man.
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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaredborgetti View Post
    Thank you and glad you were ok after all. Take care man.
    Thanks man and will do.
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    #20
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    It is very common to puke your brains out on MDMA, esp. The come up, all those other side effects you felt, were all manifestated and was just classic,and typical anxiety and panic.
    While i do not get nauseous nor vomit ln MDMA, I do however , like clockwork puke my fucking brains out as I feel the come-up on LSD, which does feel like anything but not toxic
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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox333 View Post
    I think its within the VICINITY of normal, especially considering you took diazepam BEFORE. first time hearing that. I'd argue that the majority of the complication was the diazepam timing. benzos slow down neuronal firing and overall increase gaba while MDMA super surges your serotonin. being tugged in two places at once, hypertension sounds a little intense but nothing out of the ordinary, and I definitely sweat bullets during come ups and most of the peak. this seems normal. MDMA come ups aren't too anxious or bad, atleast not with quality MDMA. I would suggest saving the benzos until you feel that first blunt effect of the come down, and I bet most of those issues would go away. also though I've never heard of this before, I wouldn't be surprised if the stimulation from the MDMA gave the Benzo a paradoxical effect ( which is known to happen under totally different medical conditions), or more simply the synergy caused intense anxiety, even considering the Benzo use. diazepam is pretty light on the head too and mostly a body relaxant, I would imagine Xanax, or clonazepam or a various assortment of different benzos would help with anxiety more, but either way.....save it till after the MDMA hits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace
    This isn't an unbiased and objective answer. You love MDMA and have approached this from the framework that MDMA can't be to blame and so you are trying to pin his entire experience on the diazepam which tbh is ridiculous. Paradoxical reactions to benzos are an idiosyncratic reaction but it's person-specific, not just something that randomly happens some of the time. If he was in the tiny percentage of people that had paradoxical reactions to benzos then he would have known that the very first time he took a benzo. Trust me, the effect is not exactly subtle. My ex girlfriend was one of the unlucky people who had paradoxical reactions to benzos. We found out when she had a really important recital (she was in an orchestra) and was super super anxious about it, so I offered her a single 5mg diazepam and half an hour later you'd swear she was on meth. She was racing around, talking a mile a minute, sweating her ass off and literally screaming at me for not getting her a drink quick enough or because my phone rang (this is a girl who is usually as meek as a mouse). It was insane.

    MDMA come ups are not too anxious or bad for you but many people get hit with severe anxiety when the MDMA first hits that disappears quickly when the effects fully kick in. I have experienced a mild form of it myself with tested MDMA, but it was just a couple of minutes of mild worry that faded fast but that doesn't mean it's mild for everyone. It was probably just a bad reaction to MDMA, but I wouldn't rule out it being cut unless it was tested.

    Was it tested, OP?
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