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    Benzo alternative, Rx or not? 
    #1
    When doctors are giving issues about prescribing benzos or upping mg, what is the closest thing you can get that actually works Rx or not?


    Sensitive to antidepressants/serotonergic drugs and antipsychotics, bought tons of herbs that don't work but haven't tried kava yet because liver concerns, benedryl partially helps but other antihistamines like mirtazepine and hydroxyzine are making me feel worse. Any kind of herb or synthetic supplement besides kava that work similarly to benzos, or stuff that at least works and doesn't taste bad?


    Thanks.
     

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    #2
    It might seem like I'm preaching sobriety, but none of those ways will work. Either go on a taper or continue at the dose you're at, or if you have the willpower go for a personalized taper with meds procured online. None of those meds will do jack shit, the only thing that will work is once you have enough time off of them smoking weed might work. Although your mileage may vary.

    edit: Alot of those meds you listed have either primary or secondary antidepressant antidepressant properties. Mirtazepine is an antidepressant/antipsychotic first and foremost. Hydroxyzine is related to benadryl (diphenhydramine) which was initially developed for antidepressant properties and was found to be an excellent antihistamine. So yeah. I dont think that antihistamines are your answer here although they may help you go to sleep they probably won't if your tolerance to benzos was high enough. It'd be helpful for you to give us some info about your tolerance.
     

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    #3
    Gabapentin, Lyrica, valerian root and CBD. If you have never tried gabapentin or lyrica I would certianly look into those. They should be initiated during a benzo taper.

    There is no reason to add on a gabapentiniod without tapering the benzo as you would be making the problem worse. Gabapentiniods are physically addictive if used for long enough. I found my anxiety was actually better on lower doses of Benzo's. Now that I am off BNZ's completely my anxiety is worse.
     

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    #4
    Kava should be liver-safe unless its a really shitty extract made from the upper parts of the plant. Dried root isnt hepatotoxic afaik. Im not sure though. For other benzo alternatives, many people here mention phenibut to be pretty benzo-like. Depends on what country you live in, its otc supplement in some countries and some dont have it otc.

    Phenibut is physically addictive like benzos though, with possible seizures in withdrawal and all that stuff.
     

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aprophenea View Post
    Kava should be liver-safe unless its a really shitty extract made from the upper parts of the plant. Dried root isnt hepatotoxic afaik. Im not sure though. For other benzo alternatives, many people here mention phenibut to be pretty benzo-like. Depends on what country you live in, its otc supplement in some countries and some dont have it otc.

    Phenibut is physically addictive like benzos though, with possible seizures in withdrawal and all that stuff.
    There's next to no quality control for kava, and phenibut is arguably more abusable than benzos
     

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Prescottdave View Post
    Gabapentin, Lyrica, valerian root and CBD. If you have never tried gabapentin or lyrica I would certianly look into those. They should be initiated during a benzo taper.

    There is no reason to add on a gabapentiniod without tapering the benzo as you would be making the problem worse. Gabapentiniods are physically addictive if used for long enough. I found my anxiety was actually better on lower doses of Benzo's. Now that I am off BNZ's completely my anxiety is worse.
    CBD is bullshit, no dose has helped other than made feel tired and the time of day felt weird and fked up. Gabapentin works sometimes, other times it made it worse and makes me feel mildly sick and lacking appetite the following day. Can't try lyrica because it's expensive af.
     

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aprophenea View Post
    Kava should be liver-safe unless its a really shitty extract made from the upper parts of the plant. Dried root isnt hepatotoxic afaik. Im not sure though. For other benzo alternatives, many people here mention phenibut to be pretty benzo-like. Depends on what country you live in, its otc supplement in some countries and some dont have it otc.

    Phenibut is physically addictive like benzos though, with possible seizures in withdrawal and all that stuff.
    I've heard so many horror stories with phenibut, I have a tub from liftmode but I am afraid to try it as I heard it can make you really sick, even at mild dosages, plus I don't have a scale to measure.
     

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by g0to View Post
    There's next to no quality control for kava, and phenibut is arguably more abusable than benzos
    I've heard from people that they turned yellow and got dry itchy skin, which is bound to happen because of it's hepatotoxicity regardless if it's a quality batch. I have a liver disorder that causes elevated bilirubin, so I am very wary on trying kava.
     

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    #9
    Cannabis extracts even CBD can be weird. Although I do smoke pot everyday and it helps with everything from anxiety to overstimulation and restlessness. Although these are "symptoms" I guess that I have always had and were simply exacerbated by drugs to an unmanageable extent. So in a way Cannabis and also vaping helps me regulate that.

    If you enjoy alcohol then you would like phenibut. It's garbage though, it lasts way too long for how strong it is. So multi day dosing ends up having more of a negative effect than is expected.

    Well people turn yellow from allergies and crap like that too. I don't know if that's any indicator of anything other than in certain scenarios. But yeah I wouldn't try any thing that isn't 100% vetted if you have liver problems
     

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by g0to View Post
    Cannabis extracts even CBD can be weird. Although I do smoke pot everyday and it helps with everything from anxiety to overstimulation and restlessness. Although these are "symptoms" I guess that I have always had and were simply exacerbated by drugs to an unmanageable extent. So in a way Cannabis and also vaping helps me regulate that.

    If you enjoy alcohol then you would like phenibut. It's garbage though, it lasts way too long for how strong it is. So multi day dosing ends up having more of a negative effect than is expected.

    Well people turn yellow from allergies and crap like that too. I don't know if that's any indicator of anything other than in certain scenarios. But yeah I wouldn't try any thing that isn't 100% vetted if you have liver problems
    I just need help with panic attacks, DP/DR, agoraphobia, anticipatory anxiety, and stuff like that.
     

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    #11
    Sounds like you have tried most of the well known alternatives. Aside from raising your dose it may be time to experiment with some non drug related alternatives.

    Exercise, meditation and therapy. You won't find any magical cures that arean't either extremely physically addictive or powerful enough for you.

    In my opinion CBD is far from shit but it's not pure alprazolam powder that's for sure. An extreme lifestyle change ranging from an anti imflamitory diet and daily cardio might be right up your ally. You deserve a dosage change so you can take more benzo's
    Last edited by Prescottdave; 08-11-2018 at 08:00.
     

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    #12
    Tizanidine or clonidine may help.
     

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Prescottdave View Post
    Sounds like you have tried most of the well known alternatives. Aside from raising your dose it may be time to experiment with some non drug related alternatives.

    Exercise, meditation and therapy. You won't find any magical cures that arean't either extremely physically addictive or powerful enough for you.

    In my opinion CBD is far from shit but it's not pure alprazolam powder that's for sure. An extreme lifestyle change ranging from an anti imflamitory diet and daily cardio might be right up your ally. You deserve a dosage change so you can take more benzo's
    Things I've tried:

    Passionflower:

    Valerian:

    L-Theanine:


    Chamomile:


    Lemon Balm:

    Catnip tea:

    Skullcap:

    Lemongrass:

    Holy Basil:

    Gotu Kola:

    GABA:

    Melatonin:

    More not listed. Have yet to try lavender though.
     

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Prescottdave View Post
    Sounds like you have tried most of the well known alternatives. Aside from raising your dose it may be time to experiment with some non drug related alternatives.

    Exercise, meditation and therapy. You won't find any magical cures that arean't either extremely physically addictive or powerful enough for you.

    In my opinion CBD is far from shit but it's not pure alprazolam powder that's for sure. An extreme lifestyle change ranging from an anti imflamitory diet and daily cardio might be right up your ally. You deserve a dosage change so you can take more benzo's
    Exercise makes it works, I've even pushed myself for months.
     

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    #15
    Benzo withdrawal is the fucking worst! The only thing you can really do it?s try to taper. It takes quite a bit of time and is tough as hell.
     

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    #16
    Bluelighter Intense's Avatar
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    Magnesium can help as well.
     

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Intense View Post
    Magnesium can help as well.
    Already tried, twice.
     

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    #18
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    ^ Nothing is simply going to replace benzodiazepines; do you truly want what "help " is available, or is nothing short of gaba-A agonism gonna cut it?

    Only barbiturates and the rare thieno-diazepines will be as effective for pure physical anxiety, and barbiturates are harder to get;

    There are RC benzos if your truly desperate

    What is your benzodiazepine/ dosage? You still haven't said
     

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorne??? View Post
    ^ Nothing is simply going to replace benzodiazepines; do you truly want what "help " is available, or is nothing short of gaba-A agonism gonna cut it?

    Only barbiturates and the rare thieno-diazepines will be as effective for pure physical anxiety, and barbiturates are harder to get;

    There are RC benzos if your truly desperate

    What is your benzodiazepine/ dosage? You still haven't said
    In terms of herbs and supplements, what gaba a agonist works the best, if you can list them down?
     

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceSeeker View Post
    Exercise makes it works, I've even pushed myself for months.
    If excercise makes it worse I think that could be your underlying problem. If you are having serious issues with anxiety and you are not excerising you are exacerbating the problem.

    Start by taking a walk each day. Add 5 minutes a day to your walk until you get up to being active for one hour a day. Do that for a few weeks and then see how you feel.

    If I don't excercise every other day I start having full blown panic attacks. Excercise is the key to dealing with anxiety on a long term basis. The evidence backing this shows excercise is a better way to deal with anxiety compared to medication.
     

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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Prescottdave View Post
    If excercise makes it worse I think that could be your underlying problem. If you are having serious issues with anxiety and you are not excerising you are exacerbating the problem.

    Start by taking a walk each day. Add 5 minutes a day to your walk until you get up to being active for one hour a day. Do that for a few weeks and then see how you feel.

    If I don't excercise every other day I start having full blown panic attacks. Excercise is the key to dealing with anxiety on a long term basis. The evidence backing this shows excercise is a better way to deal with anxiety compared to medication.
    I've been riding my bike for months and have seen no improvement.
     

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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0to View Post
    Mirtazepine is an antidepressant/antipsychotic first and foremost.
    Mos def not it's an atypical antidepressant with sedating effects due to it's anti-histaminergic action. Check wiki it's not a anti psychotic.

    The anta or inverse agonist action on the 5HT2a receptor is said to prevent a person from tripping on that class of psychedelics. As well as aborting a bad trip. No personal experience though.

    And benzo's aren't rx-ed like in the states everywhere, still people cope.

    If it wasn't for the taste thing I could have dropped a legal addicting herbal solution.
     

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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by emkee_reinvented View Post
    Mos def not it's an atypical antidepressant with sedating effects due to it's anti-histaminergic action. Check wiki it's not a anti psychotic.

    The anta or inverse agonist action on the 5HT2a receptor is said to prevent a person from tripping on that class of psychedelics. As well as aborting a bad trip. No personal experience though.

    And benzo's aren't rx-ed like in the states everywhere, still people cope.

    If it wasn't for the taste thing I could have dropped a legal addicting herbal solution.
    You mean kratom? That's going to be banned soon, so what would be the point?
     

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    #24
    Try fiorecet...has small amount of barbiturate in it. Two of them works very well for anxiety. Clonazolam, diclazepam and flualprazolam are great RC benzos just a few clicks away from your mailbox. Lyrica and phenibut qre also great for anxiety.
     

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by third_eye_lasik View Post
    Try fiorecet...has small amount of barbiturate in it. Two of them works very well for anxiety. Clonazolam, diclazepam and flualprazolam are great RC benzos just a few clicks away from your mailbox. Lyrica and phenibut qre also great for anxiety.
    RC sites are gone, they removed the reddit pages and everything, do you think phenibut will stay legal in the US though?
     

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