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Thread: Teach a Yank a thing or two...

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    #26
    Professor Emeritus TheLoveBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    One thing about Americans I dont get is your obsession with your flag. Its like a substitute for a monarcb or something and people take it sooooo seriously... To us a flag is just a flag..No special significance but to you guys its like a sacred relicnir something.
    Fair questions, as we DO love our flag. Perhaps, because upon our founding, we sought to NOT have a monarchy or any sort of royal family...but in recognizing the unifying power of the King-Queen, we needed something to which all of our citizens would be drawn? I'm guessing here. But we have long viewed the flag as the representation that we exist - that we are present on boats which fly the flag, or that we still control forts where the flag flies. We have songs, such as our national anthem is "The Star Spangled Banner" that every kid learns, that we play at every sporting event, that is played again when we place in Olympics. Bigger than any individual, there is the flag that says 'we exist'. To dishonor the flag is to dishonor or disrespect all of us. We have generations before us who fought, and died, to carry that flag to other lands in war...for various reasons, but the message back home was that it was to protect us from being invaded by others. We landed on the moon, and it was an American achievement, symbolized by planting an American flag. We exist. We made it here.

    I quickly think of European soccer teams, with their banners. While we have flags or emblams for teams, they never carry the same weight or significance to us. Even our states have their own flags, but law requires they be hoisted slightly lower than the national flag. Hell, talking about rules, there is a code of rules about display and care of the flag for those who wish to have one at home. These include having a light on it if you fly it at night, or pulling it down in bad weather.

    Every kid at every school (used to, though I think it's waning*) stands with hand over heart in the mornings and recites our Pledge of Allegiance

    I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    The anthem played at the beginning of sporting events, also has men remove their hats out of respect and asks that those in attendance place their hands over their hearts.

    If a soldier dies in the line of duty, their family is presented with a folded flag in remembrance and honor of their sacrifice.

    The design itself evolved over years to represent the addition of more states in the star count, of the red and white stripes to represent the original 13 colonies.

    The colors of the flag have important meanings. Red symbolizes hardiness and valor, white symbolizes purity and innocence, and blue represents vigilance, perseverance and justice
    I hadn't thought of it much, but you raise a fair point about how much we value our flag, rather than viewing it as a simple piece of cloth. I think the heart of it is that IT represents us all, past generations and current. A statement that we exist - and as such we will fight with our lives to defend it.
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindtheShadow View Post
    ^^
    Mmm hmm and whats with calling their boot a trunk?
    Hello a boot is the right term
    Or a bonnet. a fucking hood...

    A hood is what i pull over my head to keep it warm in the cold (and to add an air of mystique )
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    #28
    Professor Emeritus TheLoveBandit's Avatar
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    Here's a question for you - do you view us as all the same? All Americans are (mostly) equal?

    Being on the inside of a population, I can assure you that WE see a lot of differences, perhaps more than you could imagine. But at the same time, we do consider this melting pot of differences to be acceptable and that we are ALL 'Americans' regardless (or because of?) these differences. But how do you guys see us?


    I think for most Americans, the UK gets lumped into 'Europeans' which are a big mixed bag but still all the same in terms of 'them there foreigners'. This doesn't apply to me, tbh. I've had enough travel, and business relationships, and God forbid basic social education to know that 'Europe' is a bunch of individual countries with their own respective laws, histories, language, and up until recently their own currencies. Just because you all are neighbors and mostly share the euro currency does NOT make you one group...though I think the majority of Americans don't quite grasp that. How would you describe yourselves to an outsider like me?
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    #29
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    Bloody hell, there's some loaded questions in there mate!

    As a member of your 51st state, I'd say there's not really a great deal of difference between us - we both have a wide diversity of cultures, wealth and class - ranging from poor scum, to rich scum.

    But there are, as you say, subjective differences:


    You see yourselves as protectectors of the free world, whereas we see you as self important bully boys with a gun fetish and a dubious choice in Presidents.

    Conversely:

    We see ourselves as superior, well educated remnants of one of the greatest empires in history, whereas you see us as uptight tea drinking wimps with bad teeth, a dubious choice of Prime Ministers and an obsession with our 'special relationship' - which let's face it, is a load of bollocks.

    However, I think to a certain extent, we are both secretly envious of each other - you for our monarchy; us for your increasingly progressive cannabis laws.

    Hope that covers everything...


    Edit: I have a question for you. Do you in the USA see yourselves as significantly different from Canadians? (Ignoring the fact that Canada is part of the British Commonwealth).
    I personally wouldn't be able to tell the difference myself - you all talk funny and drive on the wrong side of the road...


    And for a bit of light hearted relief, here's a great British crusty band:

    New Model Army: '51st State of America'

    https://youtu.be/es7BgsWq1_g
    Last edited by F.U.B.A.R.; 04-12-2018 at 20:14.
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    #30
    Professor Emeritus TheLoveBandit's Avatar
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    I'll admit, one image that always comes to mind for me this time of the year is the American 1964 tv program for Rudolph that was all stop-motion. There were a lot of stop-motions back in the 60's and 70's.








    I'm curious - what programs, characters, images come to mind for you around this time of year?
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    #31
    Bluelighter LoginNotSecure's Avatar
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    The Snowman, obviously.
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    #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoginNotSecure View Post
    The Snowman, obviously.
    Definitely! It brings a tear to my eye every time I see it...
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    #34
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    That's the one. Don't forget the Snowman and the Dog.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2560206/

    If your eyes don't get a bit misty while watching either of these, then you're dead inside.
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    #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveBandit View Post
    ... We landed on the moon, and it was an American achievement...
    Spearheaded and made possible by a German. Hmm... starting to detect a theme here...

    Maybe they were onto something with that whole master race thing

    All joshing aside, I do think Bill Hicks was spot on with the whole flag-worship thing...



    I have similar feelings towards the monarchy. Not that I'd burn 'em or owt, just don't get why anybody would give a toss one way or t'other about 'em.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveBandit View Post
    Here's a question for you - do you view us as all the same? All Americans are (mostly) equal?
    It may not always be entirely (or even remotely) accurate but it just so happens that your homeland is one of those that almost everyone from almost anywhere else can have an opinion of cos y'all really upped the Imperialism (cultural and otherwise) game. Talk about passing of the poison chalice

    Personally I don't see any nation as being homogenous - with the possible exception of some of those really, really tiny lil fellas. The US is a vast country with, presumably, as much variation as one would expect from such. There is definitely a "Generic America" that prevails but even a cursory glance at anything beyond Hollywood cliches shows that up for being as silly as the "Four Weddings and a Cockney Geezer" version of Britain is to us over here.

    And, yes, British Xmas telly gold...



    Would actually struggle to think of anything non-American that passes for Xmas classics over here, mind. But then I'm not the festive type so... So I prefer Raymond Briggs' follow-up about pensioners slowly dying from radiation sickness after a nuclear holocaust
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    #36
    Professor Emeritus TheLoveBandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R. View Post
    But there are, as you say, subjective differences:


    You see yourselves as protectectors of the free world, whereas we see you as self important bully boys with a gun fetish and a dubious choice in Presidents.

    Conversely:

    We see ourselves as superior, well educated remnants of one of the greatest empires in history, whereas you see us as uptight tea drinking wimps with bad teeth, a dubious choice of Prime Ministers and an obsession with our 'special relationship' - which let's face it, is a load of bollocks.

    However, I think to a certain extent, we are both secretly envious of each other - you for our monarchy; us for your increasingly progressive cannabis laws.

    Hope that covers everything...


    Edit: I have a question for you. Do you in the USA see yourselves as significantly different from Canadians? (Ignoring the fact that Canada is part of the British Commonwealth).
    I personally wouldn't be able to tell the difference myself - you all talk funny and drive on the wrong side of the road...
    I think older generations may have seen themselves as protectors of the free world. Then, by my generation (born late 60's to mid 70's) we saw it more of protecting our interests, which easily translates into invading/attacking others for our benefit That easily translates to bullies, so you have a growing population since the early 80's that has been against war - not in the 60's hippy style, but simply wanting our gov't to stay home and protect us, stop fighting in foreign lands. It does cause an internal struggle a bit, and I think many of us can see both sides of it - we are the big muscle (pride inflates that) which leads many to say we are a bully, while at the same time there are purported crises (WMD!!) where the big muscle is needed and if you look around the globe, who else is going to do it? We (I) still have great pride in America, but respect other countries a lot to where we need to just let them sort out their issues rather than jumping in with 'Let us help' while we make sure we get our oil, our puppet leader, etc.

    I don't think we envy the monarchy, we still resent being ruled 'permanently' in that sense. Here we have elections, which give the feeling that we have some say in the matter but more importantly, nothing really bad can last forever. We are starting to learn to enjoy our weed laws, however

    I recall about 15-20y ago, a lot of Americans, if they traveled abroad they'd try to pass as Candian Just because we were keenly aware of how much anti-American sentiment was out beyond our borders. Now, idunno. I'm out of the near-college age, more in the businessman age, where interactions are professional and where your from is only meaningful in understanding someone's accent. However, we (I) view Canada as odd. It's America wannabe in a lot of ways, and fights fiercely to differentiate itself with socialist policies that don't seem to work so well. It's also odd in that a large portion (geographically) is more French than British in ancestry, so while the English speakers are made fun of for talking 'aboot' things, eh? The French ones speak a lot of French and may as well be a foreign country I'm certain Canadians don't wish to be American. There's more pride in that than jealousy for anything we have. But they seem to forget that because we have the big global muscles, nobody ever messed with them really. And they'd be conquered quickly if it weren't for our shadow over them and their humongous mass of useless great white north that nobody would want in the first place.
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveBandit View Post
    and their humongous mass of useless great white north that nobody would want in the first place.
    You'd think that wouldn't you? But I've faught over areas of desert in the arse end of nowhere that had no oil or any resource bar sand and rock.

    People always find a reason to fight over somewhere....and its the armed forces job to do what they are told to do... and anyway, when the rounds start flying, the reason you're there becomes increasingly irrelevant.
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    #38
    Bluelight Crew alasdairm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    How come veterans have about 50 days recognising them in thr US but in Britain we have fuck all?
    they don't. in the u.s. there's one - veterans day, november 11th.

    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    (Rememberance day doesn't count)
    why not?

    alasdair
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by alasdairm View Post
    they don't. in the u.s. there's one - veterans day, november 11th.
    I thought there was several.. I don't know all the names but isn't there like Veterans Day (which you mentioned - Nov 11th) Memorial Day (last Monday in May) Armed Forces Day (18th May) and a few others?


    Quote Originally Posted by alasdairm View Post
    why not?
    Because it's to commemorate the ending of The Great War specifically, not a day to commemorate/celebrate veterans in general...

    Anyway, you're a Jock, what the fuck would you know about Yank military based holidays? Nah, just kidding mate... In all seriousness, it's good to see you, I thought you were dead lol
    Last edited by apocalypse_when; 11-12-2018 at 21:26.
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    #40
    Bluelight Crew alasdairm's Avatar
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    ^ yeah, what would i know

    the distinction between veterans day and memorial day is subtle - veterans days celebrates everybody who served in the military. memorial day celebrates those who died in service. so i guess you're right - that is 2 days.

    armed forces day is not a public holiday in the u.s.

    did you know the u.k. also has an armed forces day?

    rumours of my demise were obviously exaggerated

    alasdair
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by alasdairm View Post
    ^ yeah, what would i know

    the distinction between veterans day and memorial day is subtle - veterans days celebrates everybody who served in the military. memorial day celebrates those who died in service. so i guess you're right - that is 2 days.

    armed forces day is not a public holiday in the u.s.

    did you know the u.k. also has an armed forces day?

    rumours of my demise were obviously exaggerated

    alasdair
    It's good to speak to someone genuinely knowledgeable on a subject. Makes a change from some of the rediculous BS that EADD had become littered with these days. ... I always liked you (in my previous "lives" so to speak )

    Yeah, I knew there was an Armed Forces Day in the UK too (although like the US not a public holiday)... There's also an Airborne Forces Day over here too, which I pay more attention to given my past unit (which it's releaving to be able to actually talk a bit about now that I've gained a degree of anonymity and that EADD has been cleaned up a bit from the way it was 2 or 3 years ago).

    And I'm pleased the rumours of your demise have been greatly exaggerated lol!!! ...

    Take care of yourself Alasdair mate..
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    #42
    Bluelighter Raasyvibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    I Makes a change from some of the rediculous BS that EADD had become littered with these days. ... I always liked you (in my previous "lives" so to speak )


    And I'm pleased the rumours of your demise have been greatly exaggerated lol!!! ...

    Take care of yourself Alasdair mate..

    right, this definitely fucking is Evey. Only Evey spells ridiculous as "rediculous", and has a huge crush on alasdair.


    What is it about powerful Scottish men wearing kilts!?!?
    Last edited by Raasyvibe; 11-12-2018 at 23:42.
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Raasyvibe View Post
    right, this definitely fucking is Evey. Only Evey spells ridiculous as "rediculous", and has a huge crush on alasdair.


    What is it about powerful Scottish men wearing kilts!?!?
    LMAO... no mate I'm not Evey, just typing fast on my phone while high on fentanyl and pregabalin..

    Ask FUBAR, he knows who I am...

    Bit insulted that you think I'm a mentally disturbed wierdo with a highly unhealthy obsession with forums (bluelight in particular) and an absolute fucking cunt when it comes to saying the most terrible shit about people who only ever tried to help her.. I know she's your freind and all mate, and I like you, but she is an absolute shit cunt..

    As for Alasdair, I just always got along with the guy and he did me a few favours over the years...
    Last edited by apocalypse_when; 12-12-2018 at 00:21.
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    #44
    Bluelighter Raasyvibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post

    As for Alasdair, I just always got along with the guy and he did me a few favours over the years...
    Oh I bet he did....





    lolz seriously tho, yeah I think I got Ali wrong over the years. My attitude was wrong here and he was quick to pick me up on it. I wish him the very best in his further non-BL ventures...

    Because it's to commemorate the ending of The Great War specifically, not a day to commemorate/celebrate veterans in general.
    Disagree with that though. And i've bought enough poppies to voice an opinion. Remembrance day is huge in the UK, prominent in every church. The silence is observed in every public place. Huge coverage on TV... etc

    They Will Not Be Forgotten
    Last edited by Raasyvibe; 12-12-2018 at 00:31.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Raasyvibe View Post
    They Will Not Be Forgotten
    A fine sentiment Rassy..respect you for saying it.

    I've had some hairy experiences in combat along the green zone over in Helmand with Terry Taliban but I can't even begin to imagine the bravery and fear those guys must have felt going over the top in the Battle of the Somme... Walking straight into German maxim fire, knowing you've got fuck all chance of surviving to even reach the German trenches...

    Those guys were all heros if the finest order...



    At the going down of the sun...

    And in the morning...

    We will remember them...

    We will remember them...

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    #46
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    Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R. View Post
    Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
    It is sweet and honorable to die for one's country
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    #48
    Professor Emeritus TheLoveBandit's Avatar
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    Turning from holidays to more BL centric topics - are the EADD gang as flooded with heroin problems as the US? Is the psychedelic use considered high, or scarce? What is the drug landscape like there?

    Question was raised in speaking with some Aussie friends in terms of how the US has been effected by partial legalization of weed - still illegal in the national sense, but several states have been passing laws for medicinal use, and even some for recreational use which has shifted the supply chain a bit. You still have dealers, but now you have gov't licensed dispensaries, with higher quality and perhaps a wider selection, though with mandated limits on how much you can legally have on you. Any discussion of legalization in any European areas (besides Netherlands, of course)?
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    #49
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    Weirdly, we actually had a vote on the legalisation of cannabis here just yesterday. Wasn't a big push or owt - more an opening skirmish than a meaningful attempt to get the law changed - and it lost by a surprisingly narrow margin. The break-down of who voted either way does suggest that a future non-Tory government could probably get a full cannabis legalisation bill passed here in future though. Seems to be the way the world is turning these days so only a matter of time surely.
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