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    Help with sleep 
    #1
    Hi all.

    I am and always have been an appalling sleeper. But lately it?s getting worse and worse.

    I sell a therapist about it, which may or may not help over time. I do have work related anxiety issues that I am working on.
    I also self medicate, which the therapist is aware of.

    I am rarely able to sleep past 3am whatever time I go to bed.

    Last night I took 10mg of Roche Valium, which can knock me out on its own.
    I also took 7.5mg zopiclone.
    I was still awake at 3am and then had to start a nightmare day at work and I still feel completely exhausted now.

    I have in the past used codiene and I find this leaves me feeling much more refreshed in the mornings, but I am conscious I don?t want to become dependent / addicted to opiates.

    I realise that diazepam may not be the best benzo for sleep but I am not very knowledgeable on the subject of benzos.

    Does anyone have any advice ? I am willing to pretty much try anything even if it is a short term solution for insomnia.

    Any input is very welcome...thanks
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    #2
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    I would say forget using anything that destroys sleep architecture. So that means avoiding relying on benzos, z-drugs and most other hypnos tbh. You might get some sleep, but it's not really going to solve any problem long-term and may simply build up problems for when you inevitably need to take a break.

    How do you fare with (a) changing your sleep routine/pattern quite drastically, (b) melatonin, (c) l-tryptophan (etc), (d) varying exercise times during the day/eve, (e) varying eating times?
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    #3
    No sleep.... And early nights the following day.

    Exhaustion is the best sleep medication.

    In bed 30 mins before your ideal sleep time and reading - no screens.

    Keep at it, in bed at sensible times, don't fight it, just sit up and read if you're struggling.

    No screens!

    Routine.

    Exercise during the day, even just a long walk will also help.

    I know it's not the response you're after given this is a drug forum but no sleep drugs are a good idea really.

    There are some valerian teas that can help a little, but I wouldn't go any stronger than that.
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    #4
    Thanks guys: kind of the answers I was expecting. I really am using any drugs as a short term thing for some relief rather than a long term solution.

    I am going to try and go to bed really late tonight and hopefully it will push my wake up time forward, but it generally dosnt.

    I?ve not tried melatonin for years, I will get some and give it a go, likewise L-tryptophan.

    I am not exercising at all at the moment, I work for myself and am crazy busy and I simply don?t have time or am too tired for getting to the gym, which would probably help.

    I eat breakfast and them graze through the day, eating an evenning meal when I get home.
    Not sure how I can vary this other than not eating after a certain time, I do eat up until quite late, I generally have a calorie deficit from the day.

    I can be completely exhausted and still not be able to sleep, I do a physical job and can get home absolutely fucked and still only sleep till 3am

    I have been following the no screen after 7pm for a while (no now obviously but after this good info)
    I will give the valerian teas a try

    Thanks guys
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    #5
    Good to hear lots of positive things youre doing there dude!

    One thing, if you're trying to create a better routine, you need to be in bed around your ideal sleep time (not just going to bed super late).

    It can feel shitty, sitting up in bed, but you need to establish a new routine, and (trust me) your body wants a good sleep routine.

    Go to bed early, read, try to sleep as your feel tired/bored.

    Don't fight wakefulness, just sit up, dim lamp on (just enough to read), rinse/repeat - to start with this could be sitting up 20/30 times.

    Don't sweat this, keep at it.

    You'll get there dude! ♥️
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    #6
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    Do you not smoke weed? I always sleep like a baby after a spliff or two.
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mentes View Post
    Good to hear lots of positive things youre doing there dude!

    One thing, if you're trying to create a better routine, you need to be in bed around your ideal sleep time (not just going to bed super late).

    It can feel shitty, sitting up in bed, but you need to establish a new routine, and (trust me) your body wants a good sleep routine.

    Go to bed early, read, try to sleep as your feel tired/bored.

    Don't fight wakefulness, just sit up, dim lamp on (just enough to read), rinse/repeat - to start with this could be sitting up 20/30 times.

    Don't sweat this, keep at it.

    You'll get there dude! ♥️
    Cheers mate. I really can?t sit in bed and read as I have a heavily pregnant girlfriend who I really can?t disturb (any more than I already do, poor bugger)
    I can certainly read downstairs for a while before I go to bed.

    Thanks again mate
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R. View Post
    Do you not smoke weed? I always sleep like a baby after a spliff or two.
    You know what, it?s the one drug I can do. It gives me crazy paranoia.
    The only time I?ve ever got on with it was when an old GF mom used to grow it in her garden, it was weak as shit and that was fine, just chilled me out and that did make me sleep well.

    The last time I had any I smoke a joint between 3 of us In Amsterdam (when in Rome) and I got the fear and had to go back to the hotel room, I watched the Dakar rally in Dutch totally confused if people really race trucks through the desert 😂

    All the stuff these days is mega strong, if I could get something really weak that might be worth a bash.
    Are their any strains that might be weak enough for me ?
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    #9
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    Yeh, I don't like the really mental stuff myself, but I always roll spliffs with baccy, so I just put a tiny bit in if it's dead strong. One nicely chilled strain that I've had recently is lemon haze. Great for sleep, no racing heart or anxiety and with a nice chilled afterglow the next day.
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R. View Post
    Yeh, I don't like the really mental stuff myself, but I always roll spliffs with baccy, so I just put a tiny bit in if it's dead strong. One nicely chilled strain that I've had recently is lemon haze. Great for sleep, no racing heart or anxiety and with a nice chilled afterglow the next day.
    Thank you, I will have a look for a bit of that and give it a go. Nothing to lose
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    #11
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    Kids roll neat skunk joints ??? even wheni smoked it it was always crumbled with baccy no wonder people go loopy.
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blondin View Post
    Kids roll neat skunk joints ??? even wheni smoked it it was always crumbled with baccy no wonder people go loopy.
    Yes, they do. I don't know how they fuckin handle it. My daughter's boyfriend rolled me a spliff once - I opened it up and it was neat weed. I managed to get 4 baccy joints out of it and I was still battered after just one.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.B.A.R. View Post
    Yes, they do. I don't know how they fuckin handle it. My daughter's boyfriend rolled me a spliff once - I opened it up and it was neat weed. I managed to get 4 baccy joints out of it and I was still battered after just one.
    Yup, my old housemate years ago used to smoke neat joints of skunk. He once rolled me one which was made with a small sized Rizla, single skinned, but using neat skunk. Since I don't smoke dope to begin with and am very sensitive to it, I should have said no but I didn't... I smoked it... and spent the next couple of hours curled up under my duvet, sweating like Michael Jackson in a kindergarten, desperately praying for this nightmare to end... and this motherfucker uased to smoke them like that all day long, averaging 15-20 of the cunts a fucking day.

    Incidentally, I believe that's who they smoke their joints in the States and look upon us as weird for mixing out dopenwith tabacco
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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by blondin View Post
    Kids roll neat skunk joints ??? even wheni smoked it it was always crumbled with baccy no wonder people go loopy.
    This.

    I mean I love the fucking stuff but its been as responsible as any element over the years for how fucked my head is now, its the one drug I cannot remember never being under the influence of, just one long parallel reality with its own ups and downs of the most extreme flavour and objectively has possibly turned me into a person of questionable capacity in most peoples minds. It cant be contributing anything good I havn't done anything progressively productive in 7 years and while I know the downers have been at the forefront of things its all stemmed from the weed, the lean is just so much better than when things are just normal but my greed was ultimately so insatiable that when the chips were down and I needed a topp buzz, despite already having years of the best fun re: dance/drugs and everything I could want in life otherwise, I still abandoned my scruples completely and turned myself into a a fucking caseworkers file.

    But with regards to getting back OT and my most recent experience, I was bout to give up sleeping this morning at about 4am after lying awake for some time (this is not unusual as I am usually in bed between 8pm and 10, getting up at around 5 or so to get a couple of quiet hours before the hedcase gets up and starts her performance), went downstairs and had a small bong and rolled a spliff, with the intention of watching a film, but by halfway through the joint I was back in bed and went out like a light. Its the first time I've used cannabis to get back to sleep in ages and it was lush, but I am not a healthy sleeper, as I use benzos 2 or 3 times a week (for anxiety more than sleep) but as I prefer long acting bzds I will take them late in the day, but still early enough to relax under their effect while still awake. But even though they are not hypnotic bzds as referred to by the op (cLaTTeReD) - usually diazepam or clonazepam, they are still good enough to allow me to relax in bed regardless as to whether I can sleep or not. It's just that either way it's shit quality sleep and this is obvious on the nights after I havn't used a pill in a day or 2 where my dreams are so vivid I can only surmise that it is the much needed REM sleep I am catching up on after periods of suppressing it with tranquillisers or opi - dopeys.
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    #15
    Your situation is not helped by the fact that you have become (understandably) very worked up about not being able to sleep? to the point that probably you are very anxious as you get near bed time and, unconsciously, your brain kicks into flight or fight mode. "Bed time! Oh my God, I'll spend another sleepless night, and I'm so tired, and tomorrow I have a critical day at work!"

    I agree with the suggestions to go clean and avoid chemical helpers as clearly they are not working, as well as to reset your system going without sleep for a day or two.

    Keep an eye on what you eat or drink as well, not only in the evening but throughout the day. You might have food sensitivities and your body maybe takes a long time to metabolize certain toxins. Mono-sodium glutamate, as flavourings and additives in general are not conducive to a good night's sleep and are found in processed food like flavoured crisps or pot noodles. Preservatives are bad stuff too. Hard cheese, red wine, chocolate, sugar, salty food and red meat can all keep you awake.

    As per the practical suggestions, you need to find what works for you, which may not necessarily be the stereotypical advice. For instance, following 'relaxing rituals' like having a warm bath and perfuming the pillow with a few drops of lavender essence would keep me awake for days as the contact of water on my body is very stimulating and I hate the smell of lavender, if anything, I find that strong perfumes tend to arouse my senses (but not in a good way, especially if I'm tired).

    Things which I have found helpful are:
    • Exercise, physical activity earlier in the day, but not strenuous training in the hours before bed time. Even just walking a bit more, doing the stairs more often, doing five to ten sun salutations.
    • Regular mindfulness meditation. Slows down brainwaves, reduces anxiety, aides relaxation in general and acceptance. More of this in a minute.
    • Developing acceptance, embracing my sleeplessness. Laying in bed in the dark tossing and turning for hours drives me insane. Getting up, having a light, healthy snack if I'm hungry or a decaffeinated hot drink, surfing the net, reading something, planning work for the day after, doing simple chores, basically going against the common advice to avoid stimulating my brain in any way usually makes me sleepy and works. When I wake up at 4:00am or 5:00am and I'm not too tired I just get up and get on with my day.
    • Having the bedroom as dark as possible.
    • Setting the temperature on the cool side ? but not being cold. I love wearing thermals in bed (yes, I'm single!)



    And now some practical tips from Deepak Chopra! Hopefully his people won't see his advice posted on a druggie forum

    1. During the first 5 minutes in bed, review your day. See every significant event. Feel good about your day [it's not always easy, I know], and whatever remains undone or not still finished, know that you can handle it tomorrow, This exercise eases the state of low-level worry and substitute a sense of satisfaction ? nothing is more valuable [this suggestion does not always work for me...]
    2. Lie on your back and keep your eyes open. If they start to close, focus on keeping them open. This trick works because is the opposite of 'trying to fall asleep', which is impossible.
    3. Lie perfectly still on your back. Your muscles are paralyzed during deep sleep, and by imitating this immobility, your brain is triggered to enter the sleep state
    4. See the number 100 in your mind's eye. If the image fades or your mind wanders, go back to seeing the number. The trick here is that people are often kept awake by their thoughts. Seeing an image isn't cognitive - there are no words or thoughts. Therefore, by focusing on the number 100, you stop thinking about things too much.


    A body scan lying down on my back also works for me, especially if I try to stay alert.

    And finally... remember that when you ask good sleepers how they fall asleep, they say something on the lines of: 'nothing. I just go to bed and close my eyes'. And I'm very envious of them.

    Good luck
    Last edited by Safrolette; 22-11-2018 at 06:25.
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    #16
    Agree with the comments not to use benzos... they are only useful as a VERY short term aid to restore sleeping patterns...anything after that will just make sleep worse as your body will come to rely on them (temazepam is best for this short term use though).

    Have a look at this video. It helped me. I struggle to sleep as a bad accident this sumner has left ne with a mangked left leg and the mist unbelievable amount of pain...

    In the army i could fall asleep on top of a rock and in Afghanistan, I often fell asleep at the bottom of a dirt trench with my rifle next to me snd my day sack or Kevlar helmet as a pillow but recently this relaxation techniques along with getting this special foam matress that has air bladders running along it and a pump to circulate air through it as it massages you sort of.... this and a set if wax and cotton ear plugs and a black out sleep mask...

    Have a watch of the video though...

    Hope it helps as insomnia sucks man
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    Have a look at this video. It helped me. I struggle to sleep as a bad accident this sumner has left ne with a mangked left leg and the mist unbelievable amount of pain...Have a watch of the video though... Hope it helps as insomnia sucks man
    Please would you be able to post a link to the video
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Safrolette View Post
    Please would you be able to post a link to the video
    Oops sorry, im not having a good time of it tonight... i need to go to bed lol...

    Here it is

    https://youtu.be/g1CWinr5AkI
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    Oops sorry, im not having a good time of it tonight... i need to go to bed lol...
    Here it is
    https://youtu.be/g1CWinr5AkI
    Thanks pal! I can't sleep tonight, haha
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    #20
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    I use to call dope the dream stealer as i never dreamt when i was smoking weed/hash.
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by blondin View Post
    I use to call dope the dream stealer as i never dreamt when i was smoking weed/hash.
    Yup.

    Although I sleep deeply when baked, I don't think it's quality sleep really.

    ...and once you have a daily smoke to sleep habit, breaking it is a nightmare (excuse the pun).
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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blondin View Post
    I use to call dope the dream stealer as i never dreamt when i was smoking weed/hash.
    Oh definitely. When I was a daily smoker, on the rare occasions I had to go a couple of days without, the rebound dreams consisted of horrific nightmares.
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