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Thread: First time Morphine advice

  1. #1

    First time Morphine advice

    Hi all,

    Need some advice! Don?t worry, I?m not getting into opiates, but a mate left 4 ?Zomorph 10mg extended release? capsules at mine. Told me I could have them as it wasn?t really his cup of tea. He said he sniffed half a cap and gouched out hard..

    Not fussed on them, but if I was to give it a whirl in the future, what dose would you suggest? I have no opiate tolerance, but do my fair share of codeine many years ago. Was due to an injury however.

    I have mild asthma, is that an issue for strong opiates? I?m obviously aware that alcohol/ benzos and morphine is a no go.

    Cheers

    SR

  2. #2
    Take one and empty the beads out. Crush the beads up with the back of a spoon and eat the powder. This will be IR morphine, Wait an hour and if you don't feel anything try one more but no more than 2. No point in snorting the powder as the BA isn't really improved. You could try plugging the powder (after mixing with water obviously). I find it unlikely that your friend managed to get high from snorting only 5mg though but I suppose it's possible.

  3. #3
    Fucking shite high unfortunately. Just gives you a headache and nausea.

    10mg of morphine slow release has about the same kick as one co-codamol 8/500 tablet.
    Last edited by Ismene2; 29-10-2018 at 18:35.

  4. #4
    Morphine imo is lovely but sadly has a low oral BA. You definitely want to crush those up to make them IR. Since they're only 10mg I'd start with two and see how you feel. If you're not where you need to be redose as appropriate.

    Keep in mind though oral morphine only gives you around 20% of the actual dose.

    It's a shame you don't have the Oramorph liquid. Sip slowly on that and you get a real nice high. The fact you can just sip it offsets the low BA.

  5. #5
    I?m still new to this site. What do all these abbreviations mean? BA? IR? I hate being the new guy

  6. #6
    Bluelighter ashwolf22101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armyboy860 View Post
    I?m still new to this site. What do all these abbreviations mean? BA? IR? I hate being the new guy
    BA= Bio-Availability
    IR=Immediate-Release

    Don't hate being the new guy, just means you have more to learn

  7. #7
    Ohhhh okay I understand now. Thanks! I appreciate that! Now my next question is, if the BA is so low with morphine when you take it orally, then why couldn?t you take it another way? Like snorting? And again, probably another dumb new guy question lol. So I?m sorry for all of this haha

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyboy860 View Post
    Ohhhh okay I understand now. Thanks! I appreciate that! Now my next question is, if the BA is so low with morphine when you take it orally, then why couldn?t you take it another way? Like snorting? And again, probably another dumb new guy question lol. So I?m sorry for all of this haha
    You can take it in other ways, however the BA is low for insufflation (snorting) also. Its highest BA routes are IV/rectal but they come with their own risks, especially IV.

    Don?t apologise.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyboy860 View Post
    Ohhhh okay I understand now. Thanks! I appreciate that! Now my next question is, if the BA is so low with morphine when you take it orally, then why couldn?t you take it another way? Like snorting? And again, probably another dumb new guy question lol. So I?m sorry for all of this haha
    Its low, but sometimes people miss the point. The doses it comes in are such that the low BA is taken into account to deliver the correct amount into your bloodstream. Drugs with a much higher BA (like oxycontin) are typically given in much lower doses.

    The BA is almost irrelevent really. If you lose 50% in getting the oral drug into your blood then this will have been accounted for in that the dose is higher...

    Makes sense when you think about it... morphine isnt the analgesic gold standard because its shit... its because its NOT shit

  10. #10
    I have a script for zomorph brand XR morphine, and they prep well for IV, be sure to filter properly, a single-use micron filter that attaches to the end of a rig will do just the trick. Morphine has a solubility in H2O (room temperature) of 60mg/ml, with these, you will need to grind them up fine to powder, and soak them in water, adding the water hot and leaving it to cool will help extract it.

    Allow to soak for a while, then draw up through the micron filter. ORALLY, morphine is shite, at least, the bioavailability is TERRIBLE. 20-25% or so on average, the rest of it is destroyed in the liver. If you don't want to inject, then pull it into a rig through a cigarette rollup filter cotton, to leave the solids behind, as you can add more water and leave it to get the last of the morphine out. And then plug the solution (with no needle attached, obviously).

    But, to put things in perspective, the over the counter J.Collis.Browne's

    mixture, a cough and stomach liquid contains 20mg morphine per 100ml bottle.

    But it really is better shot, oral is such a massive, massive waste. Plugging is perhaps similar to IM in terms of BA.But be sure to have gone to give birth to theresa may first, or the contents of your rectum could absorb the drug causing it to go to waste when you send the PM out to address her public.

    And the BA is not irrelevant at all. Besides, these were given to the OP, not prescribed, so no clinical contexts of any kind were taken into account on his behalf, he was simply given some morphine XR caps. And they are 10mg each, so he cannot allow any of it to go to waste given the small amount he has.

    IV, or maybe plugging, is the only viable option for such a small dose. And it isn't enough to make esterification viable either, given mechanical losses, chemical losses in terms of yield, byproducts etc.

    Zomorph are probably one of the best of the XR morphine formulations for prepping to IV though, those small microbeads, once poured out and ground to dust, hot but not quite boiling water added and soaked, they release a goodly proportion of the morphine right away.

    IV morphine or other strong opioids isn't something to approach casually, due to addictive nature of such drugs, Orally though the BA is so terrible, for morphine, it's just dire. Plugging is the only other option IMO for zomorph. Insufflation isn't really suited to them, because of their being a broken down (imperfectly XR formulation.

    If done IV, there is a strong rush that one just doesn't get with any other route of administration, due to the speed of the drug entering the body, allowing a sudden large spike in plasma levels. Consists of a lovely feeling of warmth sneaking all over one's body, elevated heart rate, which feels both forceful and more rapid, although not uncomfortably so. Along with a prickling sensation, particularly in the palms of the hands and soles of the feet, also often the cheeks, bridge of the nose. This latter effect is due to histamine release, which most opioids cause to one degree or another, some more than most.

    With really big doses of morphine, H or prope, then the itchy/prickling can actually get quite sharp and stinging, but we're talking way more than 40mg, I've even had it be quite painful when shooting doses of 600mg-1g morphine, after getting the plunger depressed and delivering the drug, felt it go up my vein, like a cold trickle of ice water, before my body became very warm, and the soles of my feet and palms and parts of my face started to feel as if I'd just whipped them with nettles.

    Enough actually to hurt, really stung, but only for a couple of minutes, with my heart thumping in my chest, body feeling like a radiator turned up on high, giving off waves of heat, presumably due to the vasodilatory effects of the histamine, which caused also wheals, elevated, pruritic, blanched and firm, to spread all the way up the arm in which the vein used was located, although these too, faded.

    But that RUSH....ohboy. Hard to describe unless one has experienced it, very euphoric; I could even taste the morphine, as a sort of metallic, bitter and cold taste that felt as though it was being tasted on the INSIDE of my tongue rather than on it, presumably from when the blood flow bearing the shot reached the tongue on it's way to the brain.

    Just don't allow yourself to do it too often, to overuse, because you really don't want an opioid dependency. I've got bugger all choice really, given my joint problems aren't going to heal, and the trochanteric bursitis isn't showing any signs of fucking off, even with corticosteroid shots. But if you've not got a dependency, and don't need the opioids for pain control, then keep it to an occasional treat.
    Last edited by Limpet_Chicken; 27-11-2018 at 01:19.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Limpet_Chicken View Post
    when shooting doses of 600mg-1g morphine.
    I find it very hard to beleive you've shot 1,000mg of morphine at once. For starters it would take an absolute minimum of 16.7ml of water to dissolve that much.. and thats assuming a fully saturated aolution, it would be more likely to need at least 20+ml of water in practice. What kind of syringe would that require? Not to mention the histamine release would be gargantuan.

    I'm not calling you a liar (on thid this one anyway) but like many of your tall tales, this sounds highly unlikely.

  12. #12
    Bluelighter blondin's Avatar
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    i would have said diamorphine was gold morphine silver....but then theres dikes, palf's ahhh what ever floats yer boat

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by blondin View Post
    i would have said diamorphine was gold morphine silver....but then theres dikes, palf's ahhh what ever floats yer boat
    My grandad was prescribed Diconal (dipipanone) in the early 00's (2002 IIRC) for thr pain of terminal cancer. The only reason they picked this ahead if any other opioid was that the combo of MST with pethadine tabs for breakthrough wasn't working so he asked thr pain management doctor what other ones there were to try and he rattled off a whole list of opioids including this. My grandad thrn just pucked this one out of thin air and was given it. I dont remember the dose he was given but i do remembee they came in 50mg tabs and were a pinkish red colour and came in a grey box. I never tried them, but i do remember my grandad not liking them as they made him really, really tired (probabky due to the addition of the antihistamine).

  14. #14
    That was the difficult part. Of course I didn't FILL this syringe, but I used a large glass syringe, the markings end at 120ml but in practice, one could if needs be get more in.

    And if I hadn't been taking pain meds for my joints for so damn long, I wouldn't have tried it. The histamine release though...damn. Decided I'd use that glass rig, the biggest of those I have, for such purposes before I used them for anything that would render them unsuitable for putting anything into a human being (I use glass syringes not usually for injection, but for transferring things from containers, which would attack plastics, they are all glass, without a tip on the plunger, so they can safely be used with aggressive contents that would destroy rubber and plastics. And using warm water, to lessen the total volume needed, as I can't imagine huge volumes of water as a rapid IV push can be all that good for BP.

    Tolerance-wise it's not a problem, aside from the histamine release, that, felt like being scourged over the hands, feet and face by...not quite sure what it is, but a plant that grows in turkey and grows sort of rounded green segmented things, whether unopened flowers or unripe fruit, I'm not sure, but touching them, stings like fury :P

    It seems like one doesn't really become tolerant to histamine release by opioids even with a fairly long term of use. Or if it does occur, then not by much.

  15. #15
    Always wanted to try dipipanone myself, figuring that since i enjoy methadone so much (it's not in my top three, but its definitely one of my favourite, in high doses, recreationally. I like it as a painkiller too, since I had, some years back, surgery on my knee. They didn't do the best job on it, AFAIK they split the patellar tendon lengthways [deliberately], so they could insert instruments, in order to remove some bone fragments and areas of calcification, the bone fragments having splintered off either when I got the glass through my knee joint, or after, when I got the shit kicked out of me by a gang of filthy little pikey chavscum and had the knee stamped on, or of course both, although I'll never know which of course now. The op did stop the knee from locking immobile, and from going 'pop' then collapsing from under me; but it did nothing for the pain, which if anything, is worse than it was before the operation. But they left me with a problem I didn't have before going under the knife, some nerve damage, resulted in partial anaesthesia down the side of that leg. It can still hurt, but it can't feel much else. Talk about shit luck-if I'm not going to be able to feel, I'd at least have liked that to include not feeling things that hurt :P.

    And the result aside from the partial anaesthesia, is paraesthesia, sometimes painfully, and whatever nerve(s) they buggered with, it's resulted in, essentially, a permanent
    order to contract being sent to my calf muscle, without the corresponding 'relax' signals being properly sent, causing a very painful clenching and spasm of the calf, although since starting on a muscle relaxer called tizanidine, a drug not dissimilar to clonidine, both in chemical, structural terms, and in it's mode of action, being an adrenergic alpha2 autoreceptor agonist, that decreases noradrenaline release, the muscle spasm is controllable now)

    But as far as the pain goes, the 'regular' pain can be dealt with using any opioid full agonist strong enough, but that due to the nerve damage doesn't respond well at all to most opioids, methadone is an exception to that rule, and works pretty well at dealing with the prickling, burning, shooting pains and the likes, presumably because of it's having a degree of activity as an NMDA antagonist, although far far away from anything like the potency in that respect needed to be dissociative, unless someone were extremely tolerant to opioids, and even then, the fact that methadone has affinity for hERG would likely make it potentially cardiotoxic if it were taken to such extreme doses by a highly opioid tolerant individual as to produce dissociative effects, but the NMDA antagonism does make it more effective than your average opioid for neuropathic pain.

    As for favourites, I'd say 6-AcO-dihydromorphine takes the gold, dipropionylmorphine silver and refined, broad spectrum alkaloidal isolate of pods&straw, acylated with propionyl chloride or propionic anhydride the bronze medal. And between the two, I actually prefer morphine to H. I've always found morphine to be more euphoric than H. Couldn't say why exactly since it doesn't make sense, but it just is.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypse_when View Post
    Its low, but sometimes people miss the point. The doses it comes in are such that the low BA is taken into account to deliver the correct amount into your bloodstream. Drugs with a much higher BA (like oxycontin) are typically given in much lower doses.

    The BA is almost irrelevent really. If you lose 50% in getting the oral drug into your blood then this will have been accounted for in that the dose is higher...

    Makes sense when you think about it... morphine isnt the analgesic gold standard because its shit... its because its NOT shit
    You'd think so wouldn't you but I've previously been prescribed 10mg XR morphine which would barely have an effect on a mouse. Luckily I managed to get this switched to Oramorph which is far better for effective dose titeration.

  17. #17
    Bluelighter blondin's Avatar
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    the rush from diconal is like nothing else they use to precribe them to addicts bitd and you would walk around picadilly circus and every now and again you would here a whisper of dikes 3 for a ?1!!! i d pay a tenner for one if i could still inject.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by blondin View Post
    the rush from diconal is like nothing else they use to precribe them to addicts bitd and you would walk around picadilly circus and every now and again you would here a whisper of dikes 3 for a ?1!!! i d pay a tenner for one if i could still inject.
    Why can't you still inject? Is it due to no veins left? Thats one of the (many) reasons that put me off ever going down that route. As i just found out this summer, you never know when you'll end up in hospital in a situation where they need to find a vein in a hurry where its literally life and death. If they hadnt been able to get a vein for the initial blood test and later for the dialysis and plethora of IV drugs I was given I'd be fucked. Ive got really good prominent veins all over my arms and hands from all the exercise I've done in the army and through weight training as a civvy and even then they were running out of places to put lines in (i dont think they can put more than one line in at a time per limb for some reason) and they were putting PICC lines in my arms and even cannulating my jugular vein.

    Regarding the Diconal, my grandad returned several boxes of them back to the chemist as he didn't like them... I had no idea thry were highly sought after or I would have kept them lol

  19. #19
    Yeah, I do not see any reason for 10mg XR morphine dose units to exist. One can BUY 20mg IR morphine over the counter FFS, in the form of J.collis.browne's mixture.

    One bottle, even without tolerance, my only opioid use at the time being codeine linctus, or Gee's, if I happened to walk past a pharmacy that I knew had them, or terpin and codeine, occasionally DHC 30s.

    So IMO that is definitely not taking BA into account. 20-25% of 10mg is just 2-2.5mg actually acting in vivo, per os, and any medic would know if they knew that figure, that much morphine is negligible. Its the same as charging more for co-codamol IMO, a scam, codeine is worth fuck all, in terms of production costs. And a fundamental med in any country, basic, cheap shit even african peasantry could be supplied with at a price that befits their income, and not be rendered victim of any further than already extant poverty, if medical aid groups were so inclined.

    No tolerance, 10mg IV morphine was fuck all too for that matter. Same goes for twice that. With my current tolerance, for an average shot, I'd go for a ten strip of 30s, plus maybe between 40 and 60mg nasal oxy(codone, IR, lynlor/shortec. Too much powder for my liking, but hey, beggars can't be choosers. I get the 10mg oxy caps, and both 10 and 30mg morphine XRs, whassitcalled...the capsules with microbeads inside that prep really well for IR IV use, or at least they do if you have any veins that ain't been put to the torch by shooting way too many 10g bags of MXE, 4-MeO-PCP, 3-MeO- and 3-OH-PCP (although the 3-OH not in such large amounts, it's potent, and was expensive, although logically it oughtn't to be, as one would probably be methylating the 3-OH compound to get 3-MeO-PCP, and that would mean additional costs by way of methyl iodide, dimethyl sulfate, or other such methylating agents, Me2SO4 I'd guess based on price differential, MeI being quite expensive, and poor atom economy, as iodine has a really high molecular weight, although it is at least a lot less noxious than Me2SO4, dimethyl sulfate scares the shit out of me, whereas I've not got a problem with making, distilling and using methyl iodide. It's toxic, but not so hideous as Me2SO4. That said, I'm working on personal projects, where I'll make it out of methanol, iodine and a catalytic quantity of red phosphorus to form PI3 in-situ, and iodine is a lot cheaper to buy than MeI itself, methanol dirt cheap, and red phosphorus, I've only occasional need for it, for making other phosphorus reagents, or making the likes of MeI, bought 2kg a couple of years ago and I've barely scratched one of the 4x500g tubs it came in. and I'd be using at most 100s of ml of methyl iodide in a synthesis, not 100s of kg like some chinese RC factory might if they went that way)

    So one would expect, logically, 3-OH-PCP to be cheaper than any 3-alkoxy-substituted PCP derivative. But no, much more pricy.

    Either way, those, put together, buggered my veins for the most part, especially coming out of a hole, and shooting with a 28g point, whilst still...not holing, but wankered as a politician factory in a whorehouse doubling as an MDPV production plant.

    Edit-I get those 10mg XR caps as mentioned, along with my 30s, and they have two uses and two only. A single shot, the entire box (meant to take 2xdaily), or a small amount of morphine I can save up, or use other opioids to allow me to skip that one tiny shot, and employ it for research and development projects once extracted from the XR matrix, such as pilot-scale tests of hitherto untasted esters, desomorphine when I get round to performing the second step, reduction of alpha-chloromorphide. Tried it once, only got to the chloromorphide, via SOCl2 chlorination, but decided I had to test the chloromorphide on myself, because I'd found nothing online other than a wikipedia statement of 10x morphine' and little else.)

    (for those curious, it, at least, the reaction product of thionyl chloride chlorination of morphine, as the sulfate salt to protect the amine from forming an N-haloamine, which are usually unfriendly little buggers) it was NOT a '10x potency compared to morphine' opioid. At least not a MOR agonist.

    It could alleviate the worst of MOR agonist WD, but only ameliorate it, at any safe dose, perhaps slight MOR agonism but this wasn't qualified via radioligand displacement assay, but rather, it was a psychostimulant, effects purely cerebral, no physical cardio/adrenergic push, none at all. But over a certain dose, it appears that it would be a convulsant, experimentation of stepwise dose increases, delivered via injection IM, as the sulfate, were terminated after the reproducible development of clonus of the extremities, hands, feet, that were definitely the product of taking the chloromorphide.

    Very, very weird stuff. Not unpleasant, I'd like to try it again, of course in sub-convulsant doses, I KNOW I'd have gone into full-blown seizure if I'd pushed it further, but below that it was quite pleasant, and definitely interesting. I'd like to bioassay it again whilst not withdrawing from morphine/oxy. The seizure part, the beginnings showed themselves every time a certain threshold was exceeded of the chloromorphide, and I already have seizures, the sensations accompanying the overshooting of that threshold, were very similar to the warning 'aura' I often get when I am about to experience a seizure (unprovoked by any drug or toxin)
    Last edited by Limpet_Chicken; 10-12-2018 at 12:51.

  20. #20
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