Bupe My god, Has ANYONE successfully tried and done the Bernese method or microdosed onto Suboxone from opioids?????

[Eyecontact]

I posted earlier this being about tapering down and asking how long I needed to wait. I was doing the fake M30’s pretty hard and have been through PW symptoms. But I’ve tapered down to like 4 a day and want to go for the detox so I can start the buprenorphine. How far down did you taper before you only had to wait 24 hours? Fentanyl sucks Man. Totally different beast compared to coming off oxy, which seems easy now compared to trying to come off the fentanyl pills.

I tapered down to 2 a day. My last day I took .5 at 8am. .5 m30 at noon, at 10 pm I took 5 7.5 perks. I slept from 1am to 6am when I woke with RLS and withdrawals. As the morning continued on it the withdrawals grew. At 1pm I took 4mg sub,200mg gabapentin. At midnight i took 200mg gabapentin, 4mg sub and 100mg trazadone and slept 6 hours. I continued with subs gabapentin and trazadone at night the next 2 days. The only day that was difficult was the first day. I wish you the best of luck it was worth it

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Th

The reason more and more doctors are prescribing the Bernese method is because fentanyl stays in the system forever… what is this myth of hospitals???? Hospitals do not help with detox, at least in Arizona. Call any hospital in Phoenix or surrounding and ask if they help with detox and they will tell you absolutely not. They just give you number to methadone clinic and say bye.

There is such a thing as inpatient detox centers, which I'm sure is what people are referring to when they say "hospital". "Luxury detoxification suite" does have a better ring to it though, I agree. I don't know what you expect everyone to do for you? You want off opioids & now you have to pay the piper. Sorry it works that way.

Didn't your doctor induct you on subs? Normally a doctor is suppose to administer it at the clinic & watch for PWD symptoms and withdrawal symptoms in general & watch you. This practice is probably outdated at this point though.

I don't see any "doctors prescribing the bernese method" either or understand the logic behind that statement, since it's a contradiction. Bernese method was invented by a person doing it to get off HEROIN, not fentanyl. The fact that fentanyl hangs around even longer in fat is the reason you're seeing some people say it's a great method (heroin users) and probably most fent users saying they're having extrreme trouble with it. So why would "doctors be prescribing" something so difficult for fentanyl detoxification?

Is that right?

You know I think this precipitated withdrawal thing is overblown. I'm not dismissing it ( it happened to me early on in the age of Suboxone when I was given a box of 8 mg sublingual strips and took a whole one within 48 hrs of my last dose of methadone. It was like hitting the reset button, and though I didn't get classic withdrawal symptoms per se I had extreme dysphoria, skin exfoliation of my face, nightmares, agitation, paranoia... a deteriorating cascading situation that put me in a locked psychiatric ward for over two weeks. The doctor knew nothing. I called him up to tell him Suboxone was an evil plot and he insisted I take my medicine. I think now much of that could have been avoided had I just been told to cut up my strips into 1/16 squares and take them hourly on the first couple of days. ...although it didnt help that I was also abusing ritalin and benzos )
The amount of suffering required before one begins Suboxone seems as excessive as the recommended target maintenance dose of 16-32mg/daily. Given that dosing every other day is as effective as daily dosing once patients have reached consistent blood serum levels. Buprenorphine builds up due its spectacular affinity and half-life longer than methadone, and one only need read some of the harrowing experiences of sub detox to realize what a stubborn form of addiction it can produce

Regardless of whether you take it daily or every other day there are many brave physicians who have reported their clinical successes with off-label uses especially to mitigate needless suffering at the outset. (see earlier post with link to article: Review of Novel Methods To Support The Transition From Methadone and Other Full Agonist Opioids To Buprenorphine/Naloxone Sublingual In Both Community and Acute Care Settings)

Yes that is right (whatever you're referring to).

And I disagree that PWD are overblown. I think they're "mysterious" in the sense that I didn't always get them either.
For awhile I didn't believe in them and then it didn't take long for me to get super cocky and start trying to take subs just a few hours after my last dose.
And that's when I discovered what is the PWD hell. Thankfully I found that they only lasted about an hour or two until the bupe took over.







I've been on buprenorphine for 5 years now and have taken all kinds of "opioid holidays" and have spent years reading countless BL posts about bupe and other topics. So all I can share is my own experience & knowledge. As much as I miss heroin, in a way I think I'm glad I got away from it before it all became 100% fent out there. Maybe I just knew the right people back in the day, but all of you out there getting fentanyl & it's analogues are missing the real "magic" of just regular diactylmorphine (heroin).

Double the agony, triple the overdose risk and for less pleasure than just pure heroin. Thanks a LOT prohibition! *eye roll*


If you don't want another high potency opioid habit, I'd ditch that bupe when you can too. It's even longer acting than fentanyl. If you're somebody that needs long term maintenance use (like me) that's great too, but it becomes a thing of it's own.

 

[darvocet21]

I tapered down to 2 a day. My last day I took .5 at 8am. .5 m30 at noon, at 10 pm I took 5 7.5 perks. I slept from 1am to 6am when I woke with RLS and withdrawals. As the morning continued on it the withdrawals grew. At 1pm I took 4mg sub,200mg gabapentin. At midnight i took 200mg gabapentin, 4mg sub and 100mg trazadone and slept 6 hours. I continued with subs gabapentin and trazadone at night the next 2 days. The only day that was difficult was the first day. I wish you the best of luck it was worth it

That's awesome hope you continue to stay clean.

 

[HatingThisLife]

Opiods dont cause precipitated withdrawal from opoids. The end.

Suboxone does cause precipitated withdrawal from other opoids tho and OP is well versed on this and has done her research, she has made other posts regarding this topic and her Dr prescribed her the Burmese method.

Bupe has a higher binding affinity and stays bound for much longer than fentanyl. It's been shown to be time and dose dependent. And since bupe is a partial agonist and fentanyl is a full agonist, when bupe replaces sub on your receptors, it sends you in to precipitated withdrawal.

Here is a journal article you can read regarding binding affinity, the partial vs full agonist difference should be well known bc that is the reason bupe is used for MMT.

CLINICAL ACTIONS OF FENTANYL AND BUPRENORPHINE: The Significance of Receptor Binding

Receptor binding assays were undertaken in an attempt to elucidate the opioid binding characteristics of fentanyl and buprenorphine, and to investigat…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[TheShadowKnows]

I just got through 3 days of fent detox/sub induction reading this thread, so thanks everyone.
It sucked. I got myself on 2mg AM & PM (4mg total) subs and am stable now. It was 3 days of hell but I feel SO much better now. I couldn't wait the 72 hours and ate about 1mg sub about 36 hours in and got about 12 hours PWS for my trouble. I already felt like shit so it didn't matter THAT much. After 12 hours I tried another 1mg of sub. Still sick. But it got better. By day 3 I was able to take 2mg sub and not get PWS. By day 4 I stabilized and am still doing 2mg AM and 2mg PM. I plan to start tapering down the subs from here next week, 1/4 mg per dose every 4 days. If you have fent in you there is no way to avoid getting really sick (I believe the Bernese probably works but I don't have that kind of time or willpower). The subs help because they are a light at the end of the tunnel. Make a plan & stick to it. I did all of my shit (including resins and "emergency" hidden stashes) last Sunday night and went for it Monday. By Thursday I'd stabilized. I know it's hard, especially if you have work or kids but try to get 4 days to yourself and just DO it. The sickness will go away once you stabilize on the subs. Try for the lowest dose possible. AM & PM work best for me because a night dose keeps me from freaking out about not being able to sleep. I don't want to be on subs forever either but tapering off them is SO much better than the Fent. Good luck all. Thanks for your posts. I read them the whole time I was at my sickest last week. Im a million times better, 7 days later. You can do it.
Just FYI I have an extensive op/H/Fent habit, 10+ years strong with very little clean time. This is the first time I've really wanted to stop, mainly due to not being able to get anything without Fent in it. I can't afford the amount of "real" pills I need to stay well. And if you're arguing to yourself you cant afford to take off work, like I was, think about how much $$ a week of drugs costs :/ be well and good luck.

 

[darvocet21]

I just got through 3 days of fent detox/sub induction reading this thread, so thanks everyone.
It sucked. I got myself on 2g AM & PM (4g total) subs and am stable now. It was 3 days of hell but I feel SO much better now. I couldn't wait the 72 hours and ate about 1g sub about 36 hours in and got about 12 hours PWS for my trouble. I already felt like shit so it didn't matter THAT much. After 12 hours I tried another 1g of sub. Still sick. But it got better. By day 3 I was able to take 2g sub and not get PWS. By day 4 I stabilized and am still doing 2g AM and 2g PM. I plan to start tapering down the subs from here next week, 1/4 g per dose every 4 days. If you have fent in you there is no way to avoid getting really sick (I believe the Bernese probably works but I don't have that kind of time or willpower). The subs help because they are a light at the end of the tunnel. Make a plan & stick to it. I did all of my shit (including resins and "emergency" hidden stashes) last Sunday night and went for it Monday. By Thursday I'd stabilized. I know it's hard, especially if you have work or kids but try to get 4 days to yourself and just DO it. The sickness will go away once you stabilize on the subs. Try for the lowest dose possible. AM & PM work best for me because a night dose keeps me from freaking out about not being able to sleep. I don't want to be on subs forever either but tapering off them is SO much better than the Fent. Good luck all. Thanks for your posts. I read them the whole time I was at my sickest last week. Im a million times better, 7 days later. You can do it.
Just FYI I have an extensive op/H/Fent habit, 10+ years strong with very little clean time. This is the first time I've really wanted to stop, mainly due to not being able to get anything without Fent in it. I can't afford the amount of "real" pills I need to stay well. And if you're arguing to yourself you cant afford to take off work, like I was, think about how much $$ a week of drugs costs :/ be well and good luck.

g = mg

 

[TheShadowKnows]

Haha thank you darvoset21 I'll edit my post.

 

[KirisakiJemuzu]

I want to start this method where you microdose suboxone while still taking opioid of choice over 7-14 days depending.

If you don’t know what it is look up Bernese Method.

I was prescribed this method by my doctor but I can’t seem to find one SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS DONE IT that can tell me their experience. My god I am losing my mind here!!!

I have read every study out there.

I need to get on suboxone and because of the way fentanyl is it doesn’t matter how long you wait you will go into precipitated withdrawal and I’m sick as a dog by 18 hours so I can’t wait 48 hours.

Is there not one soul in this whole forum that has done it???????

I successfully completed the Bernese Method last week. It worked to perfection. I had been using high doses of very strong fent on a daily basis for 3 years. I couldn’t go more than 4 or 5 hours without feeling ill. Within 8 hours of my last dose I would be deep in WD so waiting the 2-3 days before taking Sub was just not an option for me.
I had previously read about micro-dosing but it seemed too good to be true so I never actually tried it out. I finally got to the point where I decided I would commit to it because there were no other options that seemed viable.

Here’s the schedule I came up with:
-Day 1(12pm .5mg)
-Day 2(12am .5mg, 12pm .5mg)
-Day 3(12am .5mg, 8am .5mg, 4pm .5mg)
-Day 4(12am .5mg, 4am .5mg, 8am .5mg, 12pm .5mg, 4pm .5mg, 8pm .5mg)
-Day 5(12am 1mg, 4am 1mg, 8am 1mg, 12pm 1mg, 4pm 1mg, 8pm 1mg)
-Day 6(12am 1mg, 4am 2mg, 8am 1mg 12pm 2mg, 4pm 1mg, 8pm 2mg)
-Day 7 & beyond(12am 8mg, 12pm 8mg)(Stopped other opioids)

There are obviously many different ways to do this, but this worked out perfectly for me. Besides some MINOR discomfort on the first two days and the last day of using fent, there were no negative side effects. It is also important that you keep track of your opiate intake during this process. You’ll want to use just enough to keep you comfortable during the first 2 days or so. After that you need to slowly taper down, using less and less each day. Once you’re able to take two full Sub strips in a day, the rest is easy. You just have to stay dedicated to the method.

I honestly thought I would never be able to get myself off of fent and on Sub. I’m glad I finally gave myself a chance. This really does work and if you’re committed to regaining your independence from illegal and dangerous street opioids, you can use this method to do just that with little to no discomfort. I hope this helps someone out there. I’d be happy to answer any questions about my experience. Just do your research and be safe.
Good Luck!
KJ

 

[Hmah2018]

I successfully completed the Bernese Method last week. It worked to perfection. I had been using high doses of very strong fent on a daily basis for 3 years. I couldn’t go more than 4 or 5 hours without feeling ill. Within 8 hours of my last dose I would be deep in WD so waiting the 2-3 days before taking Sub was just not an option for me.
I had previously read about micro-dosing but it seemed too good to be true so I never actually tried it out. I finally got to the point where I decided I would commit to it because there were no other options that seemed viable.

Here’s the schedule I came up with:
-Day 1(12pm .5mg)
-Day 2(12am .5mg, 12pm .5mg)
-Day 3(12am .5mg, 8am .5mg, 4pm .5mg)
-Day 4(12am .5mg, 4am .5mg, 8am .5mg, 12pm .5mg, 4pm .5mg, 8pm .5mg)
-Day 5(12am 1mg, 4am 1mg, 8am 1mg, 12pm 1mg, 4pm 1mg, 8pm 1mg)
-Day 6(12am 1mg, 4am 2mg, 8am 1mg 12pm 2mg, 4pm 1mg, 8pm 2mg)
-Day 7 & beyond(12am 8mg, 12pm 8mg)(Stopped other opioids)

There are obviously many different ways to do this, but this worked out perfectly for me. Besides some MINOR discomfort on the first two days and the last day of using fent, there were no negative side effects. It is also important that you keep track of your opiate intake during this process. You’ll want to use just enough to keep you comfortable during the first 2 days or so. After that you need to slowly taper down, using less and less each day. Once you’re able to take two full Sub strips in a day, the rest is easy. You just have to stay dedicated to the method.

I honestly thought I would never be able to get myself off of fent and on Sub. I’m glad I finally gave myself a chance. This really does work and if you’re committed to regaining your independence from illegal and dangerous street opioids, you can use this method to do just that with little to no discomfort. I hope this helps someone out there. I’d be happy to answer any questions about my experience. Just do your research and be safe.
Good Luck!
KJ

Thank you for posting this. I’ve finally decided to go the medication way of recovery and my first appointment is tomorrow. I’ve already talked to a couple nurses there and they’ve already mentioned that I most likely will be doing the Burnese method because I’m a fentanyl addict. I’ve been so worried about the PW so it’s good to read about someone who has gotten through the process. Thanks again And you should be proud of yourself that you came up with that schedule and it worked for you!

 

[Lalaniac]

I just took the first .25 for the last 2 days. Tomorrow I will take .25 morning and evening, next day I’ll take .5 morning and .5 evening, then next day I’ll take .5 morning and .75 evening. Then next day I’ll take 1 and 1, and so on. So we will see what happens. I will write a huge detailed blog post on my blog about it, since there doesn’t seem to be any experience out there on it. I guess I’ll pioneer it. Oh yeah, and you continually take your drug of choice every day, actually taking higher dose day 7-8, and then day 9 -14, depending how you draw it out, you just take sub and no opioid or full agonist.

Did you do it ? How did it go?

 

[Lalaniac]

I successfully completed the Bernese Method last week. It worked to perfection. I had been using high doses of very strong fent on a daily basis for 3 years. I couldn’t go more than 4 or 5 hours without feeling ill. Within 8 hours of my last dose I would be deep in WD so waiting the 2-3 days before taking Sub was just not an option for me.
I had previously read about micro-dosing but it seemed too good to be true so I never actually tried it out. I finally got to the point where I decided I would commit to it because there were no other options that seemed viable.

Here’s the schedule I came up with:
-Day 1(12pm .5mg)
-Day 2(12am .5mg, 12pm .5mg)
-Day 3(12am .5mg, 8am .5mg, 4pm .5mg)
-Day 4(12am .5mg, 4am .5mg, 8am .5mg, 12pm .5mg, 4pm .5mg, 8pm .5mg)
-Day 5(12am 1mg, 4am 1mg, 8am 1mg, 12pm 1mg, 4pm 1mg, 8pm 1mg)
-Day 6(12am 1mg, 4am 2mg, 8am 1mg 12pm 2mg, 4pm 1mg, 8pm 2mg)
-Day 7 & beyond(12am 8mg, 12pm 8mg)(Stopped other opioids)

There are obviously many different ways to do this, but this worked out perfectly for me. Besides some MINOR discomfort on the first two days and the last day of using fent, there were no negative side effects. It is also important that you keep track of your opiate intake during this process. You’ll want to use just enough to keep you comfortable during the first 2 days or so. After that you need to slowly taper down, using less and less each day. Once you’re able to take two full Sub strips in a day, the rest is easy. You just have to stay dedicated to the method.

I honestly thought I would never be able to get myself off of fent and on Sub. I’m glad I finally gave myself a chance. This really does work and if you’re committed to regaining your independence from illegal and dangerous street opioids, you can use this method to do just that with little to no discomfort. I hope this helps someone out there. I’d be happy to answer any questions about my experience. Just do your research and be safe.
Good Luck!
KJ

Your post was the reason I went to my dr Because I was on Suboxone’s and then I relapse, and I couldn’t get back on my subs without getting sick so I saw your post and I went to my doctor and asked her if it was possible if we could try this. She gave me a different type of instructions on what to do but I looked at yours and I wanna know how it works for you because mine is a half a milligram day 1 a half a milligram twice a day 2 1 mg twice a day 3 an 2 mg twice a day 4 milligrams twice day five

 

[darvocet21]

Your post was the reason I went to my dr Because I was on Suboxone’s and then I relapse, and I couldn’t get back on my subs without getting sick so I saw your post and I went to my doctor and asked her if it was possible if we could try this. She gave me a different type of instructions on what to do but I looked at yours and I wanna know how it works for you because mine is a half a milligram day 1 a half a milligram twice a day 2 1 mg twice a day 3 an 2 mg twice a day 4 milligrams twice day five

Whatever dose you're planning to stabilize at, let's say 8 mg just for argument's sake, the idea is to scale up by dividing your Suboxone dose into as many small units as practical and spreading them out throughout each day
for the first week although it really seems to be most important in the first 3-4 days.

One reason well there's two reasons that are given for this by rehab docs: FIRST is mitigating buprenorphine's higher affinity for opioid receptors (both as agonist and antagonist depending on specific ones) which seems to be the main reason for precipitated withdrawal. Second is that you minimize the amount of naloxone that you're exposed to at any one time

 

[Lalaniac]

Whatever dose you're planning to stabilize at, let's say 8 mg just for argument's sake, the idea is to scale up by dividing your Suboxone dose into as many small units as practical and spreading them out throughout each day
for the first week although it really seems to be most important in the first 3-4 days.

One reason well there's two reasons that are given for this by rehab docs: FIRST is mitigating buprenorphine's higher affinity for opioid receptors (both as agonist and antagonist depending on specific ones) which seems to be the main reason for precipitated withdrawal. Second is that you minimize the amount of naloxone that you're exposed to at any one time

OK so it’s OK to split my doses throughout the day because it’s building up in my system the same

 

[darvocet21]

OK so it’s OK to split my doses throughout the day because it’s building up in my system the same

Buprenorphine has a half-life with a range of 20-90 hours

 

[Lalaniac]

Buprenorphine has a half-life with a range of 20-90 hours

So it worked for you What did you do if it started putting you into withdrawals did you use or did you just take clonidine and gabapentin’s to help

 

[darvocet21]

So it worked for you What did you do if it started putting you into withdrawals did you use or did you just take clonidine and gabapentin’s to help

I can't speak from personal experience since I was given Suboxone in 2012 at the tail end of a self-taper from methadone and other drugs. I only took it once or at most twice before I wound up hospitalized and diagnosed w withdrawal psychosis, 5150 72 hour hold followed by 5250 ( up to three weeks more but I was discharged after about 15 days)

It was name brand Suboxone and I recall it cost my mother almost $300

 

[Lalaniac]

I can't speak from personal experience since I was given Suboxone in 2012 at the tail end of a self-taper from methadone and other drugs. I only took it once or at most twice before I wound up hospitalized and diagnosed w withdrawal psychosis, 5150 72 hour hold followed by 5250 ( up to three weeks more but I was discharged after about 15 days)

It was name brand Suboxone and I recall it cost my

I just got through 3 days of fent detox/sub induction reading this thread, so thanks everyone.
It sucked. I got myself on 2mg AM & PM (4mg total) subs and am stable now. It was 3 days of hell but I feel SO much better now. I couldn't wait the 72 hours and ate about 1mg sub about 36 hours in and got about 12 hours PWS for my trouble. I already felt like shit so it didn't matter THAT much. After 12 hours I tried another 1mg of sub. Still sick. But it got better. By day 3 I was able to take 2mg sub and not get PWS. By day 4 I stabilized and am still doing 2mg AM and 2mg PM. I plan to start tapering down the subs from here next week, 1/4 mg per dose every 4 days. If you have fent in you there is no way to avoid getting really sick (I believe the Bernese probably works but I don't have that kind of time or willpower). The subs help because they are a light at the end of the tunnel. Make a plan & stick to it. I did all of my shit (including resins and "emergency" hidden stashes) last Sunday night and went for it Monday. By Thursday I'd stabilized. I know it's hard, especially if you have work or kids but try to get 4 days to yourself and just DO it. The sickness will go away once you stabilize on the subs. Try for the lowest dose possible. AM & PM work best for me because a night dose keeps me from freaking out about not being able to sleep. I don't want to be on subs forever either but tapering off them is SO much better than the Fent. Good luck all. Thanks for your posts. I read them the whole time I was at my sickest last week. Im a million times better, 7 days later. You can do it.
Just FYI I have an extensive op/H/Fent habit, 10+ years strong with very little clean time. This is the first time I've really wanted to stop, mainly due to not being able to get anything without Fent in it. I can't afford the amount of "real" pills I need to stay well. And if you're arguing to yourself you cant afford to take off work, like I was, think about how much $$ a week of drugs costs :/ be well and good luck.

Hey I had a question regarding you doing Suboxone to get yourself off of dope during your withdrawals caused by the Suboxone what did you do to stop it if anything Because I’m trying the Burmese method and I’m wondering what I should take if I put myself into withdrawals

 

[Lalaniac]

Thank you for posting this. I’ve finally decided to go the medication way of recovery and my first appointment is tomorrow. I’ve already talked to a couple nurses there and they’ve already mentioned that I most likely will be doing the Burnese method because I’m a fentanyl addict. I’ve been so worried about the PW so it’s good to read about someone who has gotten through the process. Thanks again And you should be proud of yourself that you came up with that schedule and it worked for you!

I want to start this method where you microdose suboxone while still taking opioid of choice over 7-14 days depending.

If you don’t know what it is look up Bernese Method.

I was prescribed this method by my doctor but I can’t seem to find one SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS DONE IT that can tell me their experience. My god I am losing my mind here!!!

I have read every study out there.

I need to get on suboxone and because of the way fentanyl is it doesn’t matter how long you wait you will go into precipitated withdrawal and I’m sick as a dog by 18 hours so I can’t wait 48 hours.

Is there not one soul in this whole forum that has done it???????

Did it ever work for you the Burmese method because I’m trying it starting today and I wanna know if it works for you please reply

 

[Lalaniac]

I want to start this method where you microdose suboxone while still taking opioid of choice over 7-14 days depending.

If you don’t know what it is look up Bernese Method.

I was prescribed this method by my doctor but I can’t seem to find one SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS DONE IT that can tell me their experience. My god I am losing my mind here!!!

I have read every study out there.

I need to get on suboxone and because of the way fentanyl is it doesn’t matter how long you wait you will go into precipitated withdrawal and I’m sick as a dog by 18 hours so I can’t wait 48 hours.

Is there not one soul in this whole forum that has done it???????

I’m not sure if my message went through did it work for you please respond because I’m starting it today and I’m very concerned about putting myself into those withdrawals

 

[Lalaniac]

I just took the first .25 for the last 2 days. Tomorrow I will take .25 morning and evening, next day I’ll take .5 morning and .5 evening, then next day I’ll take .5 morning and .75 evening. Then next day I’ll take 1 and 1, and so on. So we will see what happens. I will write a huge detailed blog post on my blog about it, since there doesn’t seem to be any experience out there on it. I guess I’ll pioneer it. Oh yeah, and you continually take your drug of choice every day, actually taking higher dose day 7-8, and then day 9 -14, depending how you draw it out, you just take sub and no opioid or full agonist.

Did it work?