Suboxone or Kratom for getting of opiates

[t1metoquit]

Hello there, I’ve been dealing with a nasty habit of the blue pressed M30 pills. Every day for 2 years…escalated from 1.5 to almost 10 per day. It is time, and past time, to quit. I’m assuming they’re laced with fentanyl.

I saw a doc and was prescribed Suboxone. He said to wait 12-18 hours before taking them. I tried the Subs once and immediately got hurled into predicated withdrawals. Very, very unpleasant and I immediately went back to using.

I saw another doctor and he suggested the “Bernese Method”…microdosing with Subs while tapering down the pills. I have also seen a number of people having success using Kratom as a “bridge” to get off opiates and mitigate withdrawals. As info, I also have Clonidine prescribed.

What have your experiences been? What is better to get off pills and opiates, Suboxone or Kratom?

 

[Amos2019]

I encourage the use of Kratom. In MY experience, and this is MY experience, we are all different. In my experience, try RED BALI Kratom. I take a quarter cup of hot water, (i warm a 1/4 cup of water in the microwave for 30 seconds.) and a LARGE heaping tablespoon of powdered red bali kratom and stir till disolved. I always have a chaser ready, coffee, etc and drink my kratom and suck down some coffee behind it right away, as it IS TERRIBLE!! Lol. I feel better in about 10 min and it lasts 8 hours for me. Far less pain, and a general feeling of just feeling better, a little lighter on my feet, so to say. Good luck!

A

 

[deficiT]

It is probably best to try kratom first. If you can avoid long term maintenance that would be for the best.

That said, kratom isn't always an effective means of maintenance if you've had a really bad habit. Ime I used kratom for maintenance for 6 years, it can be done. But I ultimately went back to dope.

I have since switched to Suboxone and stayed off dope.

You could always use the kratom as a bridge to the Suboxone as well. That way you won't have to worry about the PWD.

 

[t1metoquit]

It is probably best to try kratom first. If you can avoid long term maintenance that would be for the best.

That said, kratom isn't always an effective means of maintenance if you've had a really bad habit. Ime I used kratom for maintenance for 6 years, it can be done. But I ultimately went back to dope.

I have since switched to Suboxone and stayed off dope.

You could always use the kratom as a bridge to the Suboxone as well. That way you won't have to worry about the PWD.

That’s a great idea. Thank you! I have strong external factors supporting me (great corporate job, wife, two little kids). I desperately WANT to be clean but I am terrified of the withdrawals and missing work. I’m also the sort of a-hole that has a private habit and my family has no idea. I don’t want them to know. I want and need to be free from these pills. I know it is a common story, but I suffered a back injury and had surgery and had oxy prescribed for 6 months. I got hooked. When the doc shut it off, I had a “friend” who had “oxy” that he could sell me…but it was the pressed blue M30s. I thought it was actual oxy and not fentanyl. I had super easy access and ended up taking them for 2 years straight every day. My naive self thought they were actual Oxy until my doctor said they were probably fentanyl, and I tested them and they are, in fact, positive for fent.

I know it will be hard, and I have heard from the folks here that PAWS will be a nightmare, but I am hoping to avoid “maintenance” where I take another substance for months or years. I’m hoping to mitigate the withdrawals for a week or two and then be clean. But maybe take the occasional benzo as needed once I al off all forms of opiates. I am scared of taking opiates and benzos together.

As a question, how much does Kratom help with the withdrawals? If feeling normal is a “1” and full blown withdrawals are a “10”, where do you get with Kratom in terms of mitigating the withdrawals? Can you function and work and just feel like crap? Or are you still curled in the fetal position where every 15 minutes feels like an hour?

I really appreciate the expertise and attitude people on this forum have. I’ve been a long time “lurker” and love what this board is about in terms of supporting people and harm reduction.

 

[t1metoquit]

I encourage the use of Kratom. In MY experience, and this is MY experience, we are all different. In my experience, try RED BALI Kratom. I take a quarter cup of hot water, (i warm a 1/4 cup of water in the microwave for 30 seconds.) and a LARGE heaping tablespoon of powdered red bali kratom and stir till disolved. I always have a chaser ready, coffee, etc and drink my kratom and suck down some coffee behind it right away, as it IS TERRIBLE!! Lol. I feel better in about 10 min and it lasts 8 hours for me. Far less pain, and a general feeling of just feeling better, a little lighter on my feet, so to say. Good luck!

A

Thank you Amos! If feeling normal is a “1” and full-blown withdrawals are a “10”, where do you get to with Kratom? Can you function, and go to work, and just feel a bit shitty? Or is there still an element of “omg am I dying?” and feeling like you can’t drink or eat anything without throwing it up?

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

I love kratom. Mixing meang da with red Bali is the shit

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

Thank you Amos! If feeling normal is a “1” and full-blown withdrawals are a “10”, where do you get to with Kratom? Can you function, and go to work, and just feel a bit shitty? Or is there still an element of “omg am I dying?” and feeling like you can’t drink or eat anything without throwing it up?

Everyone experiences Kratom differently in my personal experience. When I was kicking small oxy(real ones), Kratom did F ALL. Suboxone made me feel very comfortable which you say is not the case for you. One has to try Kratom for themselves to know for sure. If Kratom doesn’t work then higher doses of Suboxone or Methadone are other ways of opiates replacement therapy. You’ve probably heard about the risks of Methadone I’m assuming.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I love kratom. Mixing meang da with red Bali is the shit

Interesting you say that as I like that combo as well. Kratom has to do it for me now as it's the only drug I can take ( besides weed ) .

White Thai's also mix well with Bali.....wish they would rename the sleepy red ones. The tree doesn't grow there and I'm not even sure Bali still exports Indonesian kratom.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

It is probably best to try kratom first. If you can avoid long term maintenance that would be for the best.

That said, kratom isn't always an effective means of maintenance if you've had a really bad habit. Ime I used kratom for maintenance for 6 years, it can be done. But I ultimately went back to dope.

I have since switched to Suboxone and stayed off dope.

You could always use the kratom as a bridge to the Suboxone as well. That way you won't have to worry about the PWD.

 

[deficiT]

That’s a great idea. Thank you! I have strong external factors supporting me (great corporate job, wife, two little kids). I desperately WANT to be clean but I am terrified of the withdrawals and missing work. I’m also the sort of a-hole that has a private habit and my family has no idea. I don’t want them to know. I want and need to be free from these pills. I know it is a common story, but I suffered a back injury and had surgery and had oxy prescribed for 6 months. I got hooked. When the doc shut it off, I had a “friend” who had “oxy” that he could sell me…but it was the pressed blue M30s. I thought it was actual oxy and not fentanyl. I had super easy access and ended up taking them for 2 years straight every day. My naive self thought they were actual Oxy until my doctor said they were probably fentanyl, and I tested them and they are, in fact, positive for fent.

I know it will be hard, and I have heard from the folks here that PAWS will be a nightmare, but I am hoping to avoid “maintenance” where I take another substance for months or years. I’m hoping to mitigate the withdrawals for a week or two and then be clean. But maybe take the occasional benzo as needed once I al off all forms of opiates. I am scared of taking opiates and benzos together.

As a question, how much does Kratom help with the withdrawals? If feeling normal is a “1” and full blown withdrawals are a “10”, where do you get with Kratom in terms of mitigating the withdrawals? Can you function and work and just feel like crap? Or are you still curled in the fetal position where every 15 minutes feels like an hour?

I really appreciate the expertise and attitude people on this forum have. I’ve been a long time “lurker” and love what this board is about in terms of supporting people and harm reduction.

Like others have mentioned, it might boil down to a personal reaction. Some people react to kratom more strongly than others. For me, when I was going through fent/h withdrawal, high doses of Kratom probably got me to a 4-6. Still fairly shitty but not critically so.

 

[t1metoquit]

Like others have mentioned, it might boil down to a personal reaction. Some people react to kratom more strongly than others. For me, when I was going through fent/h withdrawal, high doses of Kratom probably got me to a 4-6. Still fairly shitty but not critically so.

Thank you for the input. Have you tried subs for withdrawal too? I am wondering how they compare. I’m deathly afraid of subs after the precipitated withdrawal experience but I know it works wonders for many people.

 

[t1metoquit]

Like others have mentioned, it might boil down to a personal reaction. Some people react to kratom more strongly than others. For me, when I was going through fent/h withdrawal, high doses of Kratom probably got me to a 4-6. Still fairly shitty but not critically so.

Hello deficit and Amos…thank you for the advice. I’m now 4 days clean from the “dirty 30” pills and regularly using red vein kratom, Gabapentin, and Clonidine to mitigate the withdrawals. Without I doubt I still feel crappy and have a strong feeling of malaise, but it is worlds better than being curled around a toilet vomiting and shitting for days straight. I know it’s not over yet, but I’m feeling like it’s totally doable. A big thing for me was my connection proactively reached out to me yesterday asking if I needed anything for the weekend….so tempting to say yes and have it delivered to my doorstep in 30 minutes, but I said NO!

So far, I can’t say enough about the Kratom, Gabapentin, and Clonidine combo. It’s a walk in the park compared to “normal” withdrawals. Thank you for pointing me in this direction, as I was about to fuck around with subs again.

 

[Aloha75]

Kratom got me off of 4 years of 16mg of subs in 4 weeks. That was about 10 years ago and I’ve never used an opiate again. My journey started off with back problems. I was prescribed 10 mg Percocet 10 a day and 60 mg of morphine twice daily. After three years of use they weren’t working anymore and I was just basically a maintenance. I wanted to try alternative methods and I wanted off of opiates. First I tried Subutex which actually worked very well for my back pain. I switched to Suboxone because it was easier and quicker to dissolve. I tried tapering off subs for three years and could never do it. I heard about Kratom and I decided to try it. I bought the one big bags of maeng da. I cut my subs into four pieces and took one every other day for two weeks. Then as soon as I started feeling withdrawal symptoms I took three big spoonfuls of Kratom and washed it down with orange juice or any other juice. It’s definitely not a easy swallow. Within 20 minutes my withdrawal symptoms went away. I did the standard four week taper down. I did three scoops a day three times a day for a week, then two scoops a day two times a day for a week than I did one spoonful a day twice a day for a week and then I took a spoonful if I needed it for any of the last days. In four weeks I was completely off opiates with no more withdrawal symptoms and was feeling great. Kratom was a lifesaver for me.
Since then over the years I’ve tried different types. I use it for back pain sometimes, anxiety, or depression. I might use it for a couple weeks and then go six months without. I have no idea why Kratom is not used more in this country. It should be used just like methadone or Suboxone. Not for maintenance but for completely getting off of opiates all together.
What are you now is yellow Borneo. It works wonders for my anxiety and depression.

I’m not 100% sure this is true but I’ve heard that every opiate that is currently produced can also be produced with Kratom. Kratom being less addictive.

I’ve also never heard of anybody overdosing on Kratom. I have heard of Kratom that has been mixed with other drugs like fentanyl that have had tragic results. Otherwise if you take too much you’re just gonna feel pretty sick and probably throw up.

Just my two cents and my first post on blue light.

 

[deficiT]

Kratom got me off of 4 years of 16mg of subs in 4 weeks. That was about 10 years ago and I’ve never used an opiate again. My journey started off with back problems. I was prescribed 10 mg Percocet 10 a day and 60 mg of morphine twice daily. After three years of use they weren’t working anymore and I was just basically a maintenance. I wanted to try alternative methods and I wanted off of opiates. First I tried Subutex which actually worked very well for my back pain. I switched to Suboxone because it was easier and quicker to dissolve. I tried tapering off subs for three years and could never do it. I heard about Kratom and I decided to try it. I bought the one big bags of maeng da. I cut my subs into four pieces and took one every other day for two weeks. Then as soon as I started feeling withdrawal symptoms I took three big spoonfuls of Kratom and washed it down with orange juice or any other juice. It’s definitely not a easy swallow. Within 20 minutes my withdrawal symptoms went away. I did the standard four week taper down. I did three scoops a day three times a day for a week, then two scoops a day two times a day for a week than I did one spoonful a day twice a day for a week and then I took a spoonful if I needed it for any of the last days. In four weeks I was completely off opiates with no more withdrawal symptoms and was feeling great. Kratom was a lifesaver for me.
Since then over the years I’ve tried different types. I use it for back pain sometimes, anxiety, or depression. I might use it for a couple weeks and then go six months without. I have no idea why Kratom is not used more in this country. It should be used just like methadone or Suboxone. Not for maintenance but for completely getting off of opiates all together.
What are you now is yellow Borneo. It works wonders for my anxiety and depression.

I’m not 100% sure this is true but I’ve heard that every opiate that is currently produced can also be produced with Kratom. Kratom being less addictive.

I’ve also never heard of anybody overdosing on Kratom. I have heard of Kratom that has been mixed with other drugs like fentanyl that have had tragic results. Otherwise if you take too much you’re just gonna feel pretty sick and probably throw up.

Just my two cents and my first post on blue light.

Welcome to Bluelight! Glad to hear you had success with kratom.

In regard to the thing you heard, do you mean any opioid could be produced with kratom as a starting point, kinda like how opium functions now? That doesn't sound accurate to me.

 

[Aloha75]

I do my research before I use anything. So when I was doing my Kratom research I came across a documentary I believe on Netflix. I believe that is where I heard that and there are also other alkaloids and compounds in Kratom that are good for other health issues. I think I need to Google it again. lol

 

[Aloha75]

This is a good read

Kratom Should Be Used For Pain Management, Instead Of Life Destroying Opiates And Synthetic Opioids - The Kratom Herald

Kratom is a natural and safer alternative to synthetic opioids and opiates, and people that need pain management should use Kratom

kratomherald.com

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Well, if you want OFF opiates, getting onto a highly potent one like buprenorphine might help for a few days, but then you'll be dependent on the buprenorphine.



I would try kratom as well. Maintenance opioids are incredibly potent & long acting. They produce longer withdrawal syndromes than the illicit opioids.
I personally feel like maintenance is for people who aren't ready to be off opioids & need them to function long term.

Otherwise, if you want off of opiates, getting on potent, longer acting ones is some what counterproductive, unless you plan to do a rapid taper or stay on it long term.

 

[deficiT]

I do my research before I use anything. So when I was doing my Kratom research I came across a documentary I believe on Netflix. I believe that is where I heard that and there are also other alkaloids and compounds in Kratom that are good for other health issues. I think I need to Google it again. lol

There are definitely a ton of different alkaloids in kratom that make it a very broadly effective drug for many different things.

 

[Nas47]

Kratom....if you are not into fentadope shit.Less side effects and personally always prefers herbs over synthetics or even semisynthetics like bupre.Don't know nothing about the price between these two....which is more affordable.Try first Kratom and have a patient for finding the best strain&dose suitable for you.Thatbis my advice.

 

[Aloha75]

Also some states will not sell it. The FDA has been trying to make it illegal for the past couple years. Spreading rumors and lies about people overdosing on it. Yes absolutely they overdosed on the Kratom that came from China that was mixed with who the hell knows what.

Well, if you want OFF opiates, getting onto a highly potent one like buprenorphine might help for a few days, but then you'll be dependent on the buprenorphine.



I would try kratom as well. Maintenance opioids are incredibly potent & long acting. They produce longer withdrawal syndromes than the illicit opioids.
I personally feel like maintenance is for people who aren't ready to be off opioids & need them to function long term.

Otherwise, if you want off of opiates, getting on potent, longer acting ones is some what counterproductive, unless you plan to do a rapid taper or stay on it long term.

I agree 100%. Methadone and Suboxone are supposed to be use to get you off of opiates. Not maintain your addiction.

It all starts when you decide that you want to stop using opiates. You have to have the just don’t pick it up attitude.

I’m an addict and I always will be. There’s good days and bad days. I’ve always used other types of “medication”my entire life. At 47 I’m ready to try something different.