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Mental Health No benzos for me

Survival0200

Survival0200

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
3,499
I've had some occasional anxiety issues for a long time. I take Lyrica for it but it doesn't always work.

The following drugs has been tried to be taken as needed: chlorprothixene, levomepromazine, flupenthixol, olanzapine, aripiprazole, oxazepam and quetiapine.

These drugs haven't helped so far, and I was asking for something else to try. The psychiatrist said that that's it, there's nothing else that he could prescribe and he won't prescribe benzos.

I think this is a bit shitty situation. I have to suffer from this anxiety condition.

Isn't it even againts medical doctor's ethic to leave the patient suffering?

Should I go to another doctor or what would be a solution for this problem?

And oh, I've tried psychotherapy - it helped for a while, but after a while I was back at where I am currently. And I can't even get any more therapy.
 
You can find doctors who will prescribe benzos, but I urge you NOT to do that.

I've tried to use benzos therapeutically 3 times, all with disastrous results. At least 90% of the people I've talked to who took benzos described similarly bad results.
 
The issue with taking benzos to treat anxiety is that generally it just masks the anxiety and you have to take increasingly large doses of the medication to achieve the same effects.

Eventually, they basically stop working and your only option is to taper off completely. The issue that arises then is that people find that not only is their original anxiety still present, but now they have to deal with more 'rebound' anxiety on top of that as they withdraw from the benzos.

It isn't a solution.
 
The doctor said my condition sounds like a generalized anxiety disorder. I've successfully used benzos in the past, but only "as needed". Don't really want another addiction on top of the Lyrica addiction. There justs seems to be this anti-benzo attitude hovering around. It's a shame, because people who would really need them won't get them anymore. :(
 
Yes I agree. This demonization of benzos and refusal to prescribe them when nothing else works, and when benzos can / might/ do help absolutely sucks donkeys ass.

This situation is ludicrous and unfair in my opinion and it's no wonder people so many are forced to obtain illicit benzos in order to self medicate their anxiety when non private Drs refuse to prescribe any more than the occasional one off benzo prescription. "Not suitable for long term use" so they say. This is completely and utterly untrue. They can be very suitable for long term use, if a person uses them in a canny way.

Benzos have given me back a quality of life that my anxiety had taken away from me.

I am keeping my tolerance as low as possible for as long as possible. The only way to do this is to not take benzos every day and to ensure regular breaks. But then you have to deal with the rebound insomnia and anxiety and all those Negative Automatic Thoughts that can drive a person to distraction on the benzo break days where all original symptoms rebound with a vengeance and are worse than ever. But this is the price to pay. Better that than creeping tolerance and increasing doses. I can live with the rebound days. If ever the opportunity presents itself to go longer without benzos then the rebound symptoms gets less and less and the mind reaches its natural equilibrium. It took me 4 months of Furloughed lockdown to discover this. Such opportunities dont come along very often unfortunately.

I have recently discvered that CBD does help for both insomnia and anxiety on the benzo break days. This may well prove to be the solution to the problem I have been struggling with.
 
Survival0200 said:
I've had some occasional anxiety issues for a long time. I take Lyrica for it but it doesn't always work.

The following drugs has been tried to be taken as needed: chlorprothixene, levomepromazine, flupenthixol, olanzapine, aripiprazole, oxazepam and quetiapine.

These drugs haven't helped so far, and I was asking for something else to try. The psychiatrist said that that's it, there's nothing else that he could prescribe and he won't prescribe benzos.

I think this is a bit shitty situation. I have to suffer from this anxiety condition.

Isn't it even againts medical doctor's ethic to leave the patient suffering?

Should I go to another doctor or what would be a solution for this problem?

And oh, I've tried psychotherapy - it helped for a while, but after a while I was back at where I am currently. And I can't even get any more therapy.
Click to expand...
benzos are not an acceptable treatment for long term anxiety. it actively damages the same systems you are having problems with. anxiety responds really well to diet/therapy/CBT style intervention. I have severe clinical PTSD and GAD. I have had wildly better outcomes off gabanergic agents than on. they are great for the symptoms, but the damage they do is not worth it, especially when other routes can achieve the same outcome.
 
It should be clear that there is no absolute 'one size fits all' solution.

Benzos are indeed out of favour these days, but that does not mean that they can't help some people a great deal. When nothing else does.

Exercise? Diet?, Sleep? CBT? Counselling?, SSRIs? Meditating? Throwing yourself into work or hobbies? Other forms of thrill seeking?

I have tried all of the above. It was my responsibilty and duty to do so. Nothing has ever even touched the sides of my anxiety except for benzos.

I don't speak for everyone. I speak for myself only. For myself benzos are a completely acceptable and wholy welcome resolution to my intractable social anxiety, caused by a lifetime of social fuckups, due to not even knowing I was Autistic until my 5th decade of life. There is so much water under my bridge now, things like CBT (which are designed for Neuro typicals) simply do not work for me, because there are very few CBT therapists trained in how to tailor things for Autism. Otherwise they just don't understand the issues an Autistic person goes through. Apparently CBT could be tailored for Autism but I've not found a therapist trained in such a speciality.

Autistic people seem to be considered some kind of lost cause as far as therapies are concerned and are left to fend for themselves.

There is no help coming other than that which you can find for yourself.
 
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I have been taking Xanax for over ten years and it’s really something I regret and wish I didn’t ever start taking. The withdrawals from benzos is so terrifying and it feels as if they are impossible to get off of. There are better ways to treat anxiety and it doesn’t come with the risk of Alzheimer’s, dementia and memory loss.


The vagus nerve is the tenth cranial nerve and the longest nerve in your body. it’s also the main component of the parasympathetic nervous system which controls the fight or flight response
high vagal tone is what you want it gives you positive emotions, and good physical health.
In other words, the more you increase your vagal tone, the more your physical and mental health will improve, and low vagal tone is correlated with anxiety, depression, poor ability to control your response to stress.

a German physiologist named Otto Loewi discovered that when you stimulate the vagus nerve, it triggers the release of acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter in the parasympathetic nervous system and has a tranquilizer like effect. You can access that tranquilizer lby taking deep breaths. Recommended is 6 deep breaths over the course of a minute most adults take 12 breaths per minute. When we are anxious we end up breathing very shallowly inadvertently cutting ourselves off from the bodies natural tranquilizers and fueling the stress hormones causing more anxiety.

Yoga and meditation are two of the best ways to stimulate the vagus nerve to increase vagal tone

But if you are cringing at the thought of doing yoga or meditating there are many ways to increase your vagal tone other then those two things.

chanting, humming (those monks were on to something right? All their practices stimulate the vagus nerve) The vagus nerve is connected to your vocal cords and the muscles at the back of your throat.

cold exposure, cold showers think about the polar bear club they were on to something too 🐻‍❄️ 🧊 🥶

Exercise, message, probiotics, omega 3 fatty, acids tai chi, prayer, acupuncture, socializing and laughing (I’ll leave a link)


selfhacked.com

19 Factors That May Stimulate Your Vagus Nerve Naturally - SelfHacked

The vagus nerve helps you rest, digest, and destress. Learn how to activate it with singing, yoga, and other activities.
selfhacked.com selfhacked.com
 
jane douloureux said:
I have been taking Xanax for over ten years and it’s really something I regret and wish I didn’t ever start taking. The withdrawals from benzos is so terrifying and it feels as if they are impossible to get off of.
Click to expand...

Have you looked up the Ashton method? You would also be much better off switching to a long acting benzo like diazepam if you want to reduce and eventually quit benzos completely. It really can be done. I have personally done it after being on huge doses for a few years.

Reducing by 5-10% every step (every week / fortnight/whenever you are ready) was readily achievable in my personal experience. It does get more difficult to reduce once you reach and then get below the standard therapeutic doses, but by sticking to the same principle of small and gradual reductions it can be done. This allows your brain the time it needs to re-adjust.

Now I try to ensure regular breaks so that I don't become overly physically dependent again, or at least I try to reduce the severity of this if it does happen.

Thanks for the info and links about the vagus nerve. I will look into it and see if there is anything that I can implement in my life that will have a positive effect. Nothing along similar lines has worked for me so far.

Benzos dont only help my social anxiety. They also help me "mask". This is what an Autistic person does in order to try to hide their Autism in order to try to fit in with the non Autistic world. Things go way better for me in this regard after a small dose of benzos than they do without. Life is so hard for me without them that I would consider myself to be complete fool not to take advantage of the huge benefits that they offer me. I barely even need to think about my socially appropriate mask most of the time, a lot of this just seems to come naturally and subconsciously. I must have learnt how to do this during school etc but it has become harder and harder for me to mask and blend in without benzos. Things go so badly without them. I stand out for all the wrong reasons and at worst I am literally a laughing stock. Nobody want to feel like that.

I still make some social blunders or faux-pas even with benzos, but I don't have to suffer the endless crippling anxiety and rumination from such things any longer. And I always try to learn from them, so that hopefully I wont repeat the same faux pas again.,
 
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Bleaney said:
Have you looked up the Ashton method? You would also be much better off switching to a long acting benzo like diazepam if you want to reduce and eventually quit benzos completely. It really can be done. I have personally done it after being on huge doses for a few years.

Reducing by 5-10% every step (every week / fortnight/whenever you are ready) was readily achievable in my personal experience. It does get more difficult to reduce once you reach and then get below the standard therapeutic doses, but by sticking to the same principle of small and gradual reductions it can be done. This allows your brain the time it needs to re-adjust.

Now I try to ensure regular breaks so that I don't become overly physically dependent again, or at least I try to reduce the severity of this if it does happen.

Thanks for the info and links about the vagus nerve. I will look into it and see if there is anything that I can implement in my life that will have a positive effect. Nothing along similar lines has worked for me so far.

Benzos dont only help my social anxiety. They also help me "mask". This is what an Autistic person does in order to try to hide their Autism in order to try to fit in with the non Autistic world. Things go way better for me in this regard after a small dose of benzos than they do without. Life is so hard for me without them that I would consider myself to be complete fool not to take advantage of the huge benefits that they offer me. I barely even need to think about my socially appropriate mask most of the time, a lot of this just seems to come naturally and subconsciously. I must have learnt how to do this during school etc but it has become harder and harder for me to mask and blend in without benzos. Things go so badly without them. I stand out for all the wrong reasons and at worst I am literally a laughing stock. Nobody want to feel like that.

I still make some social blunders or faux-pas even with benzos, but I don't have to suffer the endless crippling anxiety and rumination from such things any longer. And I always try to learn from them, so that hopefully I wont repeat the same faux pas again.,
Click to expand...
I have looked into the Ashton method

I want to get off opiates and I want to have the Xanax to rely on when the day comes when I taper off that medication again

the only time I take Xanax now is at night to sleep I have terrible insomnia and haven’t been able to fall asleep without them in so long it seems impossible and yea I have tried every guided meditation, hypnosis, kava kava, valerian root, melatonin, sleep inducing weed and edibles it’s just impossible I don’t know if it is part of my bipolar brain or just insomnia as it’s own thing. like tonight I took 2 muscle relaxers, oxycodone and 2 1mg Xanax at 930 because I had a headache and wanted to sleep but here I am still awake. I don’t sleep even with Xanax sometimes and I don’t know how I am going to be able to sleep without it

I can’t take lunesta or ambien I had a terrible reaction to ambien and hallucinated and needed to restrained I don’t remember much about what happened only the subject of the hallucination which is so specific I am afraid to put it here for fear someone will know it’s me.

I worry I will get Alzheimer’s or dementia and I am aware I don’t really sleep I only drug myself unconscious every night

I even had a sleepwalking episode the last week in June I had a lot of family stuff going on and I wouldn’t have even know I had done it but things where in places that they were not supposed to be a my makeup mirror in the shower, I was wearing eyeliner and sunscreen. It was scary it was like I had done my morning routine what if I had gone outside? How often does this happen?
I am telling myself that was the first time.

the withdrawal symptom list for coming off benzos makes coming off opioids seem like a cake walk
how long did it last and how bad was it really?
i am aware we are all different and you did the Ashton method I’m just interested in an experience of someone who did it

so switching to a long acting one is the way I go
thenopposite of the way coming off opiods works best
you cut a day off your withdrawal by switching to instant release for extended release so that is good information to have because I would have used that same approach with the benzos and stuck with short half life

thank you for the information 🦋🦋🦋
 
jane douloureux said:
I have looked into the Ashton method



the withdrawal symptom list for coming off benzos makes coming off opioids seem like a cake walk
how long did it last and how bad was it really?
i am aware we are all different and you did the Ashton method I’m just interested in an experience of someone who did it


thank you for the information 🦋🦋🦋
Click to expand...


I am glad you found the information on the Aston method helpful. It really did help me.

I was on about the equivalent of 100 mg of Diazpepam or 10mg of xanax a day when i started reducing. That was pretty shocking but i had been on much higher doses at times. I liked to get really heavily fucked up on benzos. I wasn't in a good way.

Anyway, I started reducing by 1 standard recommended therapeutic dose (ie the equivalent of 10mg of diazepam or 1 mg of xanax) every 7 to 10 days. The first 3 or 4 reductions I don't recall even noticing much, this probably meant that I had been taking much more than I needed for quite some time, and fortunately I had not become physically dependant on excessive doses.

When I started getting down to around 5 x the daily recommended therapuetic dose (I'm gonna start abbreviating this to RTD) I would feel mild flu like symptoms for a few days after the reduction, and a bit of a spike in anxiety. But nothing too bad at all.

It was only when I started getting down to around 2 x RTD that the insmonia really started to kick in very badly, and this was one of the worst aspects of the whole process from then on. This problem was really severe and lasted for many weeks / months. There is no denying that. Some nights I would not get to sleep until around 6:30am when I had to get up for work at 7am. It was literally a waking nightmare for weeks on end.

Apart from the insomnia, I believe that if I had not had any other problems other than withdrawing from benzos then the whole thing would not have been too bad at all, thanks to the gradual reduction of the Ashton method. In fact it would have been relatively easy, compared to many things in life which have been much harder than that. However, most people take benzos due to underlying problems. These underlying problems then re-surface and cause most difficulty when a person quits benzos. Most people do not become addicted to benzos unless they are taking them for some particular reasons in the first place. I had actually forgotten why I had started taking benzos in the first place, by the time I got off them.

For me, I hadnt even acknowledged the fact that I had severe social anxiety. Plus I was undiagnosed Autistic, and so I had no idea what was causing my social difficulties and anxieties either. Social aspects of work and life caused me so much anxiety, they were so difficult and awkward, and people didnt want to talk to me, and treated me like the weirdo that I was. I didnt understand why I was the way I was. Things would have been much easier if I had understood the reasons for my difficulties.

My problems seemed worse than ever after my few years or so on benzos and then quitting them. I think it was a mixture of the severity of my undiagnosed Autism increasing with age, plus the several years on benzos which meant that I had been trying to avoid my problems, and then it felt like I was suddenly all raw, vulnerable, and exposed, and un-insulated and ill prepared and unsupported to cope well. It was so fucking hard, thanks to the anxiety and Autism. Not because of the benzo withdrawls. Does that make sense?

I stayed off benzos for around 6 months. I could have chosen to stay off them, but for me that would have made no sense. The instant I went back on them my relationships immediately improved and my struggles and misery and ruminantions and painful agonies of awkwardness and self consciousness all instantly gone. I am glad that I have at least tried to stop, and given it a fair crack of the whip to see if I could make things work without them. Frankly I think that I would be quite mad to subject myself to further miseries of denying myself something that helps me so much.

It is quitely mentioned in some reasearch papers that benzos may help some Autistic people, (especially those that have social anxieties - this is not stated explicitly but it seems to be a blatantly obvious statement to me). But still the NHS Drs in the UK don't care about that and it's a blanket policy to refuse to offer new ongoing benzo prescriptions, no matter what the individual case or circumstance . I'd have to see a private psychiatrist if I wanted to get a legal script. If I was a wealthy middle class proffesional that would be no issue at all. But I am not, so that leaves me the option of all those clearnet sites which have sprung up to cater for the need that is out there.

I wish you good luck with whatever you decide to do. I was also addicted to opiates at the same time as Benzos at one point. It is best to quit the opis first, and then go to work on quitting the benzos afterwards.
 
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cdin said:
anxiety responds really well to diet/therapy/CBT style intervention.
Click to expand...
In the best of situations, sure. Some people don't respond to those therapies.

I'm on a long term benzo script and it's off-label for a spastic colon. I have to jump through hoops to stay on it and my doctor monitors me closely these days. But he can't find any good reason to cut me off, as I haven't changed dosage ever, I've never run out early, and the medication is still 100% effective. He tried every other drug known to man on me and they didn't work.

So my point is, sometimes benzos have a place in medicine, even long term. Some people are just born with horrific abnormalities. Luckily for most, benzos truly aren't a solution. But I'm damned sick of the 'benzos are never a solution to anything' rhetoric because it impacts those of us who require them to live.

P.S. I love your avatar :)
 
^That's a refreshing position to reiterate. Thanks.

Honestly though, most who are on benzos are for them, and those who don't use them tend to say stay away from them. We hear both sides of the issue, but I think this is largely why, to grant some insight hopefully. I personally was on them, but I think I'm better without them, which is of course tempered by the fact that I don't use them these days! Still dealing with the fallout.
 
AlphaMethylPhenyl said:
^That's a refreshing position to reiterate. Thanks.

Honestly though, most who are on benzos are for them, and those who don't use them tend to say stay away from them. We hear both sides of the issue, but I think this is largely why, to grant some insight hopefully. I personally was on them, but I think I'm better without them, which is of course tempered by the fact that I don't use them these days! Still dealing with the fallout.
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Oh yeah, don't get me wrong; if I could live without any benzos in my life, I'd love to. Just the act of getting it from my doctor is a pain in my ass, let alone being literally dependent on a substance that is vilified by society. I'd love for a new miracle drug to come out tomorrow which will let me switch, taper, and discontinue. And I'll just keep on hoping for that, because myorelaxant medications don't seem to be high on any pharma company's list of to-do's.
 
cdin said:
benzos are not an acceptable treatment for long term anxiety. it actively damages the same systems you are having problems with. anxiety responds really well to diet/therapy/CBT style intervention. I have severe clinical PTSD and GAD. I have had wildly better outcomes off gabanergic agents than on. they are great for the symptoms, but the damage they do is not worth it, especially when other routes can achieve the same outcome.
Click to expand...
Benzodiazepines definitely do not "damage" anything. This is Benzobuddies/Ashton craziness.

They are the safest and most effective psychiatric drug ever developed. While it is true they lose their effectiveness over time, this is true for all drugs.

For many people, benzodiazepines are the difference between keeping your job, your house, and your life and ending up on the street. Most posters on benzobuddies don't have jobs, live with family/SOs, are on disability, and spend their lives on the internet.

I know at least 5 girls, 3 of whom were raped, who took Ativan or whatever for years and are today fine. What are we supposed to do for such people? Give them weed? Antipsychotics? We already know SSRIs don't work. Have them drink a bottle of wine a night?
 
Eryximachus said:
Benzodiazepines definitely do not "damage" anything. This is Benzobuddies/Ashton craziness.

They are the safest and most effective psychiatric drug ever developed. While it is true they lose their effectiveness over time, this is true for all drugs.

For many people, benzodiazepines are the difference between keeping your job, your house, and your life and ending up on the street. Most posters on benzobuddies don't have jobs, live with family/SOs, are on disability, and spend their lives on the internet.

I know at least 5 girls, 3 of whom were raped, who took Ativan or whatever for years and are today fine. What are we supposed to do for such people? Give them weed? Antipsychotics? We already know SSRIs don't work. Have them drink a bottle of wine a night?
Click to expand...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effects of benzodiazepines on cognition - PubMed

Initially thought to be virtually free of negative effects, benzodiazepines are now known to carry risks of dependence, withdrawal, and negative side effects. Among the most controversial of these side effects are cognitive effects. Long-term treatment with benzodiazepines has been described as...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I'm still experiencing the effects 2.5 years out, so i have to respectfully disagree with your position. my seizure thresshold/glutamate issues are way exacerbated, as is are my PTSD symptoms, all after benzos.I can compare it easily to damage i have experienced from other gaba agents that are known to have long term negative effects. I'm open to info that shows me something else, but my experience and research has not turned that up.
 
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