Diet Anyone with diabetes (or knowledge of diabetes) help me with my ketones right now (maybe urgent, maybe not)

[moonyham]

firstly. please try to be a bit less aggressive. you have a valid point imo but we try and keep a less conforntational tone in here. @Neuroborean ditto just seen your response this is not the place for arguing over who'se dietary limitations are most limiting or calling each other ignorant.

secondly, completely get you. i've been vegetarian since i was 9 (so like over 25 years). i'm now going to have to try cutting out all of the lean, cheap protein sources i eat because i've been having debilitating pain, had to take time off work and shit. its really not the same. i'm really scared tbh, i have a very long, ongoing, history of eating disorders and cutting out large numbers of safe food is the last thing i need. hopefully the elimination diet will reveal some other culprits. i'd still be able to eat them but would need to be very watchful, its stll a huge change to my diet.

diabetes doesn't mean you have to completely cut things out. you need to be mindful of your blood sugar. i mentioned earlier in the thread i have two close family members with diabetes. might as well not beat around the bush one is my mum and she's had it forever (to me, not her whole life). she still eats what she likes and now she has her insulin pump and libre (the patch thing @AbbeyLee mentioned) she has quite a high degree of control. she's never been unable to eat something, but she might need a brisk walk afterwards if she gets the insulin a bit wrong. or, she might unexpectedly need to up her blood glucose while walking, so she keeps dextrose tablets on her.

my other family member's diabetes is less well controlled. she's still able to eat what she likes within moderation, but has many more complications when she gets health problems that would be trivial for other people, and ends up in the hospital much more often.

both of these are type 1 diabetes, i'm not sure how different it is for type 2 diabetes though with that at least its possible to reverse it with dietary modifications. again, not cutting things out completely, but changing the balance.

I appreciate it, I just find it difficult as I've dealt with people like this for so long now. People comparing their vegetarian diet they chose to be on like yeah good for you you get to choose what you eat it must be nice to have control over your diet and life. Let me know when you have something relevant to say, sort of thing. Because to me it's just offensive, comparing a choice you make for yourself to someone's shitty medical condition that haunts their life and they have no control over.


Even if it's for the purposes of controlling diabetes @Neuroborean, it's really not the same. You are still choosing to use vegetarian diet over others. You can still go and eat normal food if you want by the sounds of it, maybe not in quantities others can but you can still eat stuff.

Thanks for sharing your experience with your family. It makes me feel a lot less scared to get it sorted. I just.. Like you, my diet/eating habits are so difficult already. Having to be watchful of yet another aspect, even if it's not necessarily cutting something out completely.. Its overwhelming to think about.

Vegetarians I find the worst regarding this, I don't know why. They are pretty much the only people I've come to deal with that think their life/dietary needs are comparable to medical allergies like gluten intolerance/celiacs.

Id trade almost anything to swap my gluten free life for vegetarian. What a blessing that would be. Truly.

 

[Neuroborean]

iirc there is some proposed type of transplant, maybe to do with the islets of langerhans? that might be able to cure it. would be cool. my mum was always annoyed about it cos apparently it was known as a potential cure but not researched due to lack of funding. but this is very hazy and out of date. it would be awesome if they could reverse type 1 as well.

sadly i suspect the people making a killing on insulin etc will put as many roadblocks as possible in to prevent that. those shareholders must be paid!

It seems that a transplant is not the best option as the body reacts violently against other people/animals beta cells so they are destroyed overtime and you need to use shitty immune-depresors (or whatever the word is in english). Maybe with stem cells converted using clones of your own beta cells could work? not sure if they can do that to be honest...
I wrote it in another thread, there's ongoing studies that I'm pretty sure they could end up in success using phytochemicals that activate beta cell replication of your own remaining: harmine + a TGF beta. Also, it seems that artemisinin can convert the (normally excessive in diabetics) alpha cells from pancreas into beta cells. That could work pretty good as alpha cells release glucagon which is terrible for diabetics unless you're hypoglycemic.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Because to me it's just offensive, comparing a choice you make for yourself to someone's shitty medical condition that haunts their life and they have no control over.

i get you but its not the place to argue. i think @Neuroborean was trying to make it seem like a less daunting probability, there wasn't any malice, but it fell flat.

either way please both of you just stop arguing about it.

It seems that a transplant is not the best option as the body reacts violently against other people/animals beta cells so they are destroyed overtime and you need to use shitty immune-depresors (or whatever the word is in english). Maybe with stem cells converted using clones of your own beta cells could work? not sure if they can do that to be honest...
I wrote it in another thread, there's ongoing studies that I'm pretty sure they could end up in success using phytochemicals that activate beta cell replication of your own remaining: harmine + a TGF beta. Also, it seems that artemisinin can convert the (normally excessive in diabetics) alpha cells from pancreas into beta cells. That could work pretty good as alpha cells release glucagon which is terrible for diabetics unless you're hypoglycemic.

i'm going to try and find the other thread now. this is really interesting though i doubt i'll be able to understand it.

i am a bit surprised that anything to do with TGF beta could be used in such a precise way just cos i used to do a bit of transcriptomics and it comes up in so many pathways that do quite different things.

 

[Neuroborean]

Even if it's for the purposes of controlling diabetes @Neuroborean, it's really not the same. You are still choosing to use vegetarian diet over others. You can still go and eat normal food if you want by the sounds of it, maybe not in quantities others can but you can still eat stuff.

What I wanted to say is that I chosed to be limited in 1 thing: not eating most of animal proteins, added to the fact that I have diabetes type 1 and I probably also have gluten intolerance as it fucks up my sugars very often, so I shouldn't choose eating gluten sources at all, to be honest.
I wanted to say that the world won't collapse because of not eating this or that, because maybe subjectively it disturbs your life for a while, but you'll get used to it and you can be perfectly healthy, that was my message.

 

[Neuroborean]

i get you but its not the place to argue. i think @Neuroborean was trying to make it seem like a less daunting probability, there wasn't any malice, but it fell flat.

either way please both of you just stop arguing about it.


i'm going to try and find the other thread now. this is really interesting though i doubt i'll be able to understand it.

i am a bit surprised that anything to do with TGF beta could be used in such a precise way just cos i used to do a bit of transcriptomics and it comes up in so many pathways that do quite different things.

you'll find it in psychedelic drugs sub,
a post talking about syrian rue medicinal purpose.

 

[moonyham]

you'll find it in psychedelic drugs sub,
a post talking about syrian rue medicinal purpose.

Weird. I've used Syrian rue twice, when trying to make an ayahuasca brew. I thought the vomiting and feeling like I'm on top of the world was entirely the brew but I wonder if the Syrian rue had any effect. I didn't trip, the brew was too silty to keep down. But I felt like even just for the purposes I had ended up using it for it had a medicinal benefit. Cause yeah I didn't trip but damn.. I felt gooooooood all night. Maybe it was just the ayahuasca though(mimosa hostillis).

Anyway I appreciate the clarification and I'm sure I'll be throwing you questions when I get diagnosed. If you'll answer them haha. I see a doctor next week. I'll try bring it up with him.

 

[Neuroborean]

Weird. I've used Syrian rue twice, when trying to make an ayahuasca brew. I thought the vomiting and feeling like I'm on top of the world was entirely the brew but I wonder if the Syrian rue had any effect. I didn't trip, the brew was too silty to keep down. But I felt like even just for the purposes I had ended up using it for it had a medicinal benefit. Cause yeah I didn't trip but damn.. I felt gooooooood all night. Maybe it was just the ayahuasca though(mimosa hostillis).

Anyway I appreciate the clarification and I'm sure I'll be throwing you questions when I get diagnosed. If you'll answer them haha. I see a doctor next week. I'll try bring it up with him.

I don't think the mimosa feels super good on it's own, if both were activating something then you'd trip, that's for sure.
Syrian rue on it's own feels somewhat good, it's spacy, it's comforting and warm, MAOI effects are cool on their own, otherwise they couldn't had been (and still are, but not as often) antidepressants.

To benefit from in terms of diabetes you'd need to take an big amount of harmine, something that I think it could be dangerous but I'm not completely sure, I don't really remember well how much it was in terms of mg/kg/day, there's papers about it but science goesss slooooowwwwwwwww as fuck

 

[Neuroborean]

Weird. I've used Syrian rue twice, when trying to make an ayahuasca brew. I thought the vomiting and feeling like I'm on top of the world was entirely the brew but I wonder if the Syrian rue had any effect. I didn't trip, the brew was too silty to keep down. But I felt like even just for the purposes I had ended up using it for it had a medicinal benefit. Cause yeah I didn't trip but damn.. I felt gooooooood all night. Maybe it was just the ayahuasca though(mimosa hostillis).

Anyway I appreciate the clarification and I'm sure I'll be throwing you questions when I get diagnosed. If you'll answer them haha. I see a doctor next week. I'll try bring it up with him.

In my case the first time I did anahuasca brew (ana= non caapi liana brew) was with syrian rue with chaliponga,
I think it wasn't enough syrian rue, it had psychedelic effects but was even a bit dysphoric, I did value it because they always say that ayahuasca gives you what you need not what you want.
Next time I almost double the syrian due and changed the ROA, well, doubled the ROA so to speak:
I used ground up 2 grams of syrian rue in vegetable capsules and 20 minutes later I dosed 2.5 grams syrian rue tea
then I dosed the 3 hours brew of chaliponga, 11 grams as I remember. I dosed the chali brew 20 minutes after the syrian rue tea.
It worked, pretty well, I had visions for a couple hours and the emotional aspect of it was so releasing (the best/most healing of ayahuasca in my opinion)

 

[AbbeyLee]

I haven't read all this sorry but I've got my diabetes relatively on track now.

It was really hard when I went away for a week recently and was having meals according to other people's schedules, at restaurants and on the road. But I have a routine at home which is pretty simple.

Seeing the Endocrinologist soon so gotta get bloods done beforehand. Also want my heart checked again (they usually do that regularly with diabetes).

 

[Neuroborean]

I haven't read all this sorry but I've got my diabetes relatively on track now.

It was really hard when I went away for a week recently and was having meals according to other people's schedules, at restaurants and on the road. But I have a routine at home which is pretty simple.

Seeing the Endocrinologist soon so gotta get bloods done beforehand. Also want my heart checked again (they usually do that regularly with diabetes).

In my case they don't care at all about my heart, but they do about my eyes nerves/sight (retinopathy) and kidney/liver damage biomarkers.

It's quite usual to be less controlled when you have no control over all factors, like, when you're eating outside then you don't really know if something has x carbs or something has sugar (like some tomato sauce). I usually have good control when everything is under controlled, specially stress levels, stressors fuck up my sugar.
the last message I sent to you in this thread has info about plants that are very useful for me, maybe some could be for you.

 

[AbbeyLee]

In my case they don't care at all about my heart, but they do about my eyes nerves/sight (retinopathy) and kidney/liver damage biomarkers.

It's quite usual to be less controlled when you have no control over all factors, like, when you're eating outside then you don't really know if something has x carbs or something has sugar (like some tomato sauce). I usually have good control when everything is under controlled, specially stress levels, stressors fuck up my sugar.
the last message I sent to you in this post has info about plants that are very useful for me, maybe some could be for you.

Yeah the eye thing is #1 for me. Had it checked last year and all good. Kidneys are (amazingly) ok. Liver has been a bit fatty on and off for years from drinking, but it recovers when I don't drink.

The heart thing is because diabetics tend to have higher cholesterol levels.

Ok thanks I'll check out the plants

 

[AbbeyLee]

Oh, so you are diabetic? type 1? I didn't get that..

Good question. I'm classed as Type 2 because it happened as an adult, but I want it classed as Type 1 because my pancreas barely produces insulin. It's a result of Acute Pancreatitis/Pancreatic Necrosis. Alcohol-induced.

I think my Endocrine system was already weak (hypo-thyroidism diagnosed at 30 and my uncle also became diabetic needing insulin in his 30s). But the alcohol certainly had a lot to do with it.

 

[AbbeyLee]

Diabetic dilemma

Blood glucose = 7.5mmol/L (135.0 mg/dL)

Not hungry but should eat something. Options:

a) Don't eat, don't take insulin
b) Eat small, low carb meal, take less insulin
c) Eat normal meal, take normal insulin


a) Is tempting but I know it's wrong
b) Is most likely what I'll do
c) Probably correct but I don't want to eat much and I never want more insulin than necessary (lol who does?)

 

[darvocet21]

Thanks so much for caring enough to ask!

I tested again 2 hours later (obviously I didn't eat during that time, just water) and the ketones had gone down *slightly*. I tested again 2 hours later and while they were still high for me, they were out of the danger zone.
I've just been very careful with what I eat since then.

What do you think just philosophically about the idea that diabetes is partly a disease of modern industrial food

 

[Neuroborean]

Diabetic dilemma

Blood glucose = 7.5mmol/L (135.0 mg/dL)

Not hungry but should eat something. Options:

a) Don't eat, don't take insulin
b) Eat small, low carb meal, take less insulin
c) Eat normal meal, take normal insulin


a) Is tempting but I know it's wrong
b) Is most likely what I'll do
c) Probably correct but I don't want to eat much and I never want more insulin than necessary (lol who does?)

The keto diet is the best thing you could do, we hard-core diabetics (type 1 and badly managed type 2) have the tendency of being thin/slim, so then, whatever you'll do you won't get fat if your BG is not perfect, that's the way it works, normally. Maybe because hormonal stuff for women are a bit different.. not sure.
The thing is, if you want to eat something high protein and fat is better than carbs, low carb diet in general is much more manageable than the opposite. Specially during nights I don't eat carbs, usually, or at least slow absorption carbs, fruits are perfect, some nuts, a potato that is not very big... not more than that.
Otherwise I get the fucked dawn phenomena. With kratom and artemisia I almost never have the dawn phenomenon, but low carbs during night it's the best.

About your questions, b) is the better chance, but eating proper fat or protein content. Carbs are poison for us. For me gluten and rice are the worst types apart from pure glucose/sacarose.

 

[Neuroborean]

What do you think just philosophically about the idea that diabetes is partly a disease of modern industrial food

What else could it be? it's very clear that is that
and the same happen with diabetes type 1 but regarding "environmental factors", chemicals and immune overload (plus certain genetic predisposition)

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

What do you think just philosophically about the idea that diabetes is partly a disease of modern industrial food

It depends on the type of diabetes
MY diabetes (which is neither type 1 nor type 2) is a 100% no. Your pacreatic cells are the only cells in your body capable of producing and secreting insulin. Due to alcoholism I suffered a very severe attack of acute pancreatitis in which 95% of my pancreas was destroyed. Since my pancreas can only produce 5% of the insulin it needs, I am now diabetic. Technically it's classed as type 1.5
If you're talking type 1, then no. That's a condition that people are born with and the epidemiology has remained consistent over time.
Type 2 - mostly no, a little yes. I'd say, in the U.S. in particularly, the type and way food is produced plays a small part, but I think the insane way the obesity rate has exploded is more to blame than anything.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

What else could it be? it's very clear that is that
and the same happen with diabetes type 1 but regarding "environmental factors", chemicals and immune overload (plus certain genetic predisposition)

Type 1 diabetes literally has NOTHING to do with food/diet.

 

[Neuroborean]

Type 1 diabetes literally has NOTHING to do with food/diet.

Did you really read the thread?
I have diabetes type 1 since 30 years ago,... I know that it has nothing to do with diet...
when I say it's "the same happen" I was refering to being partly a man-made disease, not because of diet but because of environmental factors plus genetic predisposition.
If you read between the lines is not difficult to know what I was refering.