Social Issues ⫸Trans and LGBTQI+ Discussion⫷

[Jennn]

you don't think 6th graders need sex ed or just the gay ones?

just asking

I don't think any 6th grader should be shown/told about sexual positions period. I don't have any issues with gay/bi or trans folk/.

 

[mal3volent]

im not worried that straight men try to fuck me, because im a man and if they are straight by definition they aren't into fucking me.

yeah I understand that. But what if the straight man tries to get sexual with a young girl you are caring for?

I'm concerned about the roots of Queer Theory (Gayle Rubin Thinking Sex... etc) that use queer and trans movements to slip in a bit of pedophilia though. like the code word of "cross generational sex".... fucking kids

well yeah, MAPS is already starting to become a thing. Pride and child drag queens aren't helping our image.

 

[assclass]

yeah I understand that. But what if the straight man tries to get sexual with a young girl you are caring for?

same thing a gay person or trans person does. tell them to stop politely before forcing them to stop. no discrimination. dont fuck kids.

 

[Lovecraft]

Equating gayness and pedophilia is a long-worn, anti-gay trope that has been debunked numerous times. Bringing up pedophilia in a discussion about homosexuality and then further claiming that you're not anti-gay as long as nobody tries to fuck you or little children is a highly anti-gay and homophobic position at worst and completely ignorant and misinformed at best.

 

[Foreigner]

I'm a moderate/centrist (and gay), and my problem with the progressive moment is that it has become radical and fundamentalist. It's being used as a post-modern wrecking ball to try and destroy traditional liberal institutions and replace them with group-think-speak, which is anti-intellectual. A whole generation is being taught that it's okay to violently attack and oppress their opponents as long as their feelings have been hurt by them. They are calling adult disagreements "violence," and they are calling different values than their own "oppression." It's an insult to oppressed peoples everywhere.

The one thing that progressivism/post-modernism shares with the radical right is that they both disregard science and intellectual acumen. The stuff being taught in the humanites now is nothing more than the pet projects being put forth by elitist PhDs so that they can get grant money. Meanwhile their theories are being taught as facts in the universities, and anybody who disagrees is being purged.

Unfortunately, the people who become the worst victims of these political and academic activities are the very oppressed people who are trying to overcome discrimination. The ivory tower academics push their pet theories, get funding, and teach their non-sense to kids... then those kids go out into society as their vanguard and alienate society to the point that people are starting to hate LGBT people. I am so beyond sick of it.

Post-modern social theories have gutted the liberal left and now it is spreading as a social contagion. Liberal moderates are abandoning ship. The unfortunate thing is that the real cancer in our society is corporate power. Corporations have taken over higher education and have weaponized liberal thinking in order to divide society and make for better consumers. Look at Pride events in any major city. They are 100% corporate now. The left is in bed with corporate capitalism but thinks they are fighting for socialism. If it weren't so laughable I'd cry.

 

[Lovecraft]

A whole generation is being taught that it's okay to violently attack and oppress their opponents as long as their feelings have been hurt by them. They are calling adult disagreements "violence," and they are calling different values than their own "oppression." It's an insult to oppressed peoples everywhere.

The stuff being taught in the humanites now is nothing more than the pet projects being put forth by elitist PhDs so that they can get grant money. Meanwhile their theories are being taught as facts in the universities, and anybody who disagrees is being purged.

Post-modern social theories have gutted the liberal left and now it is spreading as a social contagion.

The left is in bed with corporate capitalism but thinks they are fighting for socialism.

Can you provide some concrete examples of these points?

 

[Eligiu]

Okay so here's the thing. As far as the trans hatred goes.

Cisgender people, mainly heterosexual, but yes indeed also gay and lesbian and bisexual, tend to view their genitals as encapsulating their gender. Ie for men, the penis is the ultimate sign of manhood, and for women the vagina is the ultimate sign of femininity.

Transgender people flip this concept on its head and it cuts these cis people right to the quick. They can't conceptualise that gender isn't what is between your legs, rather it is a way of existing. This then threatens their respective masculinity/femininity as if a trans man can be a man without a penis, what on earth does that mean for us with penises? Has our masculinity been reduced to nothing? Back in our day if you had a penis you were a man, as simple as that!

There is also the age old issue of (mostly) cis straight men taking issue with trans people in what eventually comes to light as transmisogyny (the intersection between transphobia and misogyny that specifically trans women face, often violent) and these cis het men are usually the ones who are most vocal about demanding that all trans people out themselves, disclose their genitals, and ask whatever questions about their junk they're asked. The main reason for all of this is because while cis het men love *their own* penises, they are loathe to even be seen standing near another man's naked schlong (or woman's, in this case) so they become paranoid about trans people because if trans people are able to end up passing well and having surgery and going on hormones and looking like any other cis person (especially trans women) then how on earth are these men supposed to make sure that the sexy lady they just wolf whistled at and checked out walking down the street isn't packing a huge dick? Cause that makes them gay, remember? Therefore if we make all trans people disclose their status and reframe trans women as men (which means that sex with them is now gay, just like we wanted) and trans men as women, we can sleep easy at night because our sense of comfort about our precious sexuality hasn't been disturbed.

It's for some of these reasons, and many, many more, that people hide behind transphobia. They often use the same tired old defences to their arguments as well. They claim all transgender people play the victim card all the time, of which the outcome is that when they *do* say something highly transphobic and the trans person rightfully calls them out, they can point the finger and go 'ha, see! Playing the victim again!' and they get away with it every time. So utterly predictable. Or they use their primary school education about biology when they've never even heard of intersex people to tell trans people that they consider them their assigned gender at birth regardless of how successful a person's transition has been, which is thoroughly idiotic because I can't remember the last time I've know anyone who owns a magical chromosome detector they can carry in their pocket.

One of the absolute favourite lines of the standard transphobe to play is the 'no one wants to date/fuck a tranny' line, whereby they create this mystical alternative reality where they know a bunch of trans people who are all sad and miserable because they are perpetually alone and unfuckable, even though the vast majority of trans people wouldn't go near these people with a 10 foot pole. Then when a trans person informs them that they have actually had many partners, as have most of their trans friends, and they have no shortage of people wanting to fuck them, they pull the most spectacular mental gymnastics to continue to justify their embarassing beliefs, including telling a person that the men they fucked who identify as gay are bisexual because they fucked them and they're a trans man, so apparently these transphobes now have the ability to change other people's sexuality who they've never met, all because it doesn't fit within their dichotomy of how gay sex = two vaginas or two penises and straight sex = a vagina and a penis. Never mind that plenty of younger people in the world have no issues dating or fucking a trans person, these mid 40 conservatives can't imagine themselves doing it which means no one would.

So it's those reasons, or its usually because I'm a trans guy and I'm far more attractive than cis men are. Which usually gets me the superbly backhanded compliment of 'wow it's so unfair that you're hotter than me and you're trans!' to which I usually respond 'how is that unfair?' and they go 'well I'm cis' and I go 'if you think you're supposed to be hotter just because you're cis you can stop talking to me at any time you ugly fuck. I'm hotter, deal with it.'

Then out comes the 'fuck you, you disgusting mutilated freak tranny whore, I was just being nice to you because no one wants to fuck you on this app. You should be grateful'

And then I tell them that I'm better than them in every way.

 

[Eligiu]

Also, at OP you are mighty brave starting up a hot trans topic. Shit could go sideways aaaaaaany minute now.

Weird how I don't see all the usual suspects from the more negative trans threads in here. It's almost like if they aren't in their transphobic echo chamber they don't want to come out and play, especially when most of the people in the thread are defensive of trans people (for once) or maybe it's because when the topic is on questioning why people hate trans people they don't really have much to offer, lest they come in and explain their own reasons for ever so subtly being heavily transphobic in ways which boggle the mind.

That's probably just a coincidence though right?

Yeah.

 

[Lovecraft]

@Eligiu so spot on about masculinity and femininity. Cross cultural studies show how these are socially defined and not tied to biology or sexuality. For instance, in many cultures het men kiss each other on the cheek but in Western society that's not masculine. It's all very subjective and arbitrary.

 

[Lovecraft]

Just looked it up. The proportion of the US population identifying as trans is 0.48% and that number has remained steady. Someone please explain to me the crisis or how this fraction of the population is pushing anything on anyone.

I'm sorry I just don't see the issue.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Just looked it up. The proportion of the US population identifying as trans is 0.48% and that number has remained steady. Someone please explain to me the crisis or how this fraction of the population is pushing anything on anyone.

I'm sorry I just don't see the issue.

Women in prison trapped with male sex offenders | Fair Play For Women

Women in prison with sex offenders like Karen White, male-born transgender inmate with penis, housed in a UK women's prison

fairplayforwomen.com

Two females impregnated by transgender fellow inmate

Two females impregnated by transgender fellow inmate

torontosun.com

of that tiny percentage, another tiny percentage are autogynephiliacs or predators of some other sort. these people are ruining it for all trans people as they are using laws intended to benefit trans people for their own purposes.

women and homosexuals predominantly are suffering as a result. so, if you're not a woman or gay, and don't care about those people, there is no issue.

watch a trans woman MMA fighter destroy a biological female due to the anatomy and bone density conferred by male puberty. i'm sure a woman will die at the hands of one if trans women are allowed to continue taking places from biological women in sport.

 

[RUC4]

Women in prison trapped with male sex offenders | Fair Play For Women

Women in prison with sex offenders like Karen White, male-born transgender inmate with penis, housed in a UK women's prison

fairplayforwomen.com

Two females impregnated by transgender fellow inmate

Two females impregnated by transgender fellow inmate

torontosun.com

of that tiny percentage, another tiny percentage are autogynephiliacs or predators of some other sort. these people are ruining it for all trans people as they are using laws intended to benefit trans people for their own purposes.

women and homosexuals predominantly are suffering as a result. so, if you're not a woman or gay, and don't care about those people, there is no issue.

watch a trans woman MMA fighter destroy a biological female due to the anatomy and bone density conferred by male puberty. i'm sure a woman will die at the hands of one if trans women are allowed to continue taking places from biological women in sport.

yesssss. also there are 2 "female" middle distance runners who are essentially intersex. They have natural testosterone levels too high for women's sports, yet are allowed to compete, just not in the olympics. and, of course, the biological male who won the entire NCAA swimming championship. the "female" runners were 4-9 Seconds faster than their comptetitors.

this kind of goes along with asking everyone's pronouns. there is a VERY small percentage of the population who are trans or transitioning in some way. I don't think we need so much legislation and attention to this super small minority of people.

also, as chin-up pointed out, there are dangers for biological women with trans women using the woman's bathroom and being housed together in jails, etc.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

It's definity a thing and it's and seated in Christians repressed desires that they can't act upon. But they kept quiet about if for so long.

It has always quietly existed until after occupy Wallstreet, the government and corporations weaponized the issue against the public to make the public Hate each other rather than hate the 1%.

They did the same thing with racism...which is a very real issue. But the media at the direction of corporate America and government kicked the rhetoric into overdrive to make us all Hate eachother rather than congress that is united in destroying the middle and lower class

 

[Hannah Capps]

I’m not anti-LBGTQ what I am against is those that are of that persuasion and not all of them are this way but the side that represents them is how they are dictatorial and you must agree with their point of you instead of living and let live I’m sorry but drag queen story hour, insisting that one day you can identify as a man or woman and use a bathroom of a man or woman when it’s resulted in rape of both boys and girls I can’t stand by that I can’t agree with the deterioration and the forced marginalization of those that are straight I have gay friends I have lesbian friends but to be fair even they are not represented because they don’t agree with the grooming that’s going on of children I’m sorry but when children are in prepubescence and then giving them drugs for example The very drug that they give sex offenders in jail to change their hormones and to cut off their ability to reproduce I have a huge issue with this children can’t decide whether or not they identify as one thing or another when they’re 18 by all means go for it but until then what I’m not for is the targeting of children and the forced you must agree with me or be canceled agenda that goes beyond LBGTQ really they hide behind that banner to push extremism and that isn’t right to those that are LBGTQ because it miss represents the majority of them…

 

[jpgrdnr]

"men being as masculine as possible is an answer to all of the problems of the world"

That's basically Peterson's argument in a nutshell.

There's a fair amount of conflict in Western psychology and neurology where young men aren't seeking female partners for sex and child rearing. Its sort of reductionism where a male is supposed to work and foster children, I mean its basically the cornerstone of civilization and has somewhat of rooted thinking in nationalism, where the nation thru species propagation will become stronger and rule over lesser nations. You have a connection with economics as well where people are supposed to have children to fill the working class ranks.

There are obviously religious connections as well to that overall idea.

So really "gay" people from sort of a 1950s era level of thinking are people who aren't going to reproduce. We obviously know this to be untrue, as Science and social freedoms have allowed various persons to have children, etc.

The problem is more complex because Work and Economy has been shown to be unsustainable. Essentially men are supposed to work for a long time (decades) but with companies and markets being what they are, and really with the nature of work changing over the last 50 years, society has created an environment where child rearing is undesirable. The government really doesn't care about children either. So you have a declining birth rate.

I believe that really Western civilization really isn't about choice, I mean you just have to look at abortion deregulation in the US to support that. So that's where I think the "gay" community fits in, where largely its a deviant community, from a top down perspective (runaway individualism as a crack in the foundation of society perhaps).

Within the hierarchy, the top level refuses to believe that the pyramid has collapsed, I mean the social engine is still turning away, but I mean you just have to look at TFW/foreign workers in both Canada and the US (and probably Europe) to know something is terribly wrong. There are other inconvenient truths, war, climate change, disease, famine etc. The horse has left the stable a long time ago.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

sorry dont get it myself just seems more "divide and conquor" bs to me.

 

[Lovecraft]

"men being as masculine as possible is an answer to all of the problems of the world"

That's basically Peterson's argument in a nutshell.

There's a fair amount of conflict in Western psychology and neurology where young men aren't seeking female partners for sex and child rearing. Its sort of reductionism where a male is supposed to work and foster children, I mean its basically the cornerstone of civilization and has somewhat of rooted thinking in nationalism, where the nation thru species propagation will become stronger and rule over lesser nations. You have a connection with economics as well where people are supposed to have children to fill the working class ranks.

There are obviously religious connections as well to that overall idea.

So really "gay" people from sort of a 1950s era level of thinking are people who aren't going to reproduce. We obviously know this to be untrue, as Science and social freedoms have allowed various persons to have children, etc.

The problem is more complex because Work and Economy has been shown to be unsustainable. Essentially men are supposed to work for a long time (decades) but with companies and markets being what they are, and really with the nature of work changing over the last 50 years, society has created an environment where child rearing is undesirable. The government really doesn't care about children either. So you have a declining birth rate.

I believe that really Western civilization really isn't about choice, I mean you just have to look at abortion deregulation in the US to support that. So that's where I think the "gay" community fits in, where largely its a deviant community, from a top down perspective (runaway individualism as a crack in the foundation of society perhaps).

Within the hierarchy, the top level refuses to believe that the pyramid has collapsed, I mean the social engine is still turning away, but I mean you just have to look at TFW/foreign workers in both Canada and the US (and probably Europe) to know something is terribly wrong. There are other inconvenient truths, war, climate change, disease, famine etc. The horse has left the stable a long time ago.

Well jeez, I think you really articulated the roots of this thing brilliantly and concisely for such a complex issue. Very well stated.

 

[Nid Styles]

But that’s certainly not the root. Some of the smartest, most intelligent people I know are very homophobic. I can’t explain that save for religious dogma.

Guy reads about random unwanted sexual assaults and thinks it their religious mindset.

Are you okay?

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Are you okay?

Are you?

Guy reads about random unwanted sexual assaults and thinks it their religious mindset.

Also, no comprendo?

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

That's just it. There isn't any rationale.