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US Events 4th of July shooter

RUC4

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Let’s talk about it.

Why has it been swept under the rug? He was on SSRIs and heavily smoked pot. He had threatened to kill people in the past.
Should his parents be held accountable?
Why is no one really diving into this story in the media? Because it doesn’t really fit the narrative?
 

Mr. Krinkle

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apparently the mom's a whackjob - that's what i read

she supposedly left him in a hot car with the windows rolled up for over a half hour and was convicted


the dad used to own a candy store and he handed out candy to the kids like it was candy


what ssri's was he on? i read that was still a rumor - ya got the lowdown on that?

:Sherlock:


it could've just been the devils lettuce :devil stoner:
 

RUC4

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apparently the mom's a whackjob - that's what i read

she supposedly left him in a hot car with the windows rolled up for over a half hour and was convicted


the dad used to own a candy store and he handed out candy to the kids like it was candy


what ssri's was he on? i read that was still a rumor - ya got the lowdown on that?

:Sherlock:


it could've just been the devils lettuce :devil stoner:
I don’t know the SSRI, but I’ll do some digging and try to find out.
I heard the dad signed for him to get there weapon because the kid was nuts. He has already threatened to kill his parents at least once.
And yea, I heard the mom was a nut case, but I didn’t know about the car. Was he a little kid then?
 

Nurse Ratched

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Michigan is trying to hold Ethan Crumbley's parents responsible with 4 indictments for Manslaughter for both of them. For the 4 kids he killed in his school shooting.

The prosecution has entered evidence that the parents knew what was going to happen and did nothing to prevent it.

Weird thing is the 4th of July shooter almost looks exactly like Crumbley.....minus the tats on his face. They could be Brothers.

If MI is successful in securing a conviction maybe other States will follow suit.

I'm not saying ALL parents are cognizant of the fact that their child is damaged goods. But if the parents have knowledge that their child is in severe distress and purchase a firearm for them well...........they are just as guilty.

Crumbley didn't have a chance with the 2 adults he grew up with. This kid probably didn't either.
 

RUC4

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Michigan is trying to hold Ethan Crumbley's parents responsible with 4 indictments for Manslaughter for both of them. For the 4 kids he killed in his school shooting.

The prosecution has entered evidence that the parents knew what was going to happen and did nothing to prevent it.

Weird thing is the 4th of July shooter almost looks exactly like Crumbley.....minus the tats on his face. They could be Brothers.

If MI is successful in securing a conviction maybe other States will follow suit.

I'm not saying ALL parents are cognizant of the fact that their child is damaged goods. But if the parents have knowledge that their child is in severe distress and purchase a firearm for them well...........they are just as guilty.

Crumbley didn't have a chance with the 2 adults he grew up with. This kid probably didn't either.
Wow. That’s great that the parents may be charged. I agree that they’re just as guilty.

I didn’t even notice that they looked alike. Where are the conspiracy theorists who will say they are the same person. Lol
 

Nurse Ratched

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Wow. That’s great that the parents may be charged. I agree that they’re just as guilty.

I didn’t even notice that they looked alike. Where are the conspiracy theorists who will say they are the same person. Lol
I think it's great too that the parents have been indicted. And they have no bond at the moment ( or it's so high that they can't come up with it ).

If anyone read the transcripts from the preliminary hearings they would be disgusted with how they left their Son on his own even after he begged his parents for help. They neglected him and his mental illness and left the gun out for him to " play " with. The day of the shooting the parents knew he had the gun in his backpack and even after the School called them to come pick him up they refused. The school is also in a bit of hot water for not insisting that they come or booting him out that day even if the parents didn't agree.

Right now they are arguing change of venue but the trial is set for the Fall I think. I hope the verdict is guilty and they have a long time to reflect how they failed their Son. Let alone how they failed their whole community with the deaths of 4 teens.
 

mal3volent

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I was just watching a video on school shooters yesterday, and there was a case somewhere where a parent of a murdered child went after the shooters parents for not securing the guns he used.

The shooter was so young at the time that he wasn't charged asan adult and was released not long after turning 18, despite having murdered I think 4 people.

then years later died in a head on collision.
 

RUC4

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I was just watching a video on school shooters yesterday, and there was a case somewhere where a parent of a murdered child went after the shooters parents for not securing the guns he used.

The shooter was so young at the time that he wasn't charged asan adult and was released not long after turning 18, despite having murdered I think 4 people.

then years later died in a head on collision.
Yeah I don’t generally think the parents are responsible for what their adult children do (like serial killers), but in these cases, I do. This is complete negligence. Both in the case your mentioning and the others referenced above. It’s unfortunate.
 

arrall

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He was on SSRIs and heavily smoked pot.
The evidence on SSRIs leading to homicide is very weak if even existent.
I'd imagine that cannabis and homicide would actually have a negative correlation once you adjusted for the fact that criminals are more likely to smoke cannabis and people with shit lives are far more likely to be heavy cannabis users.
He had threatened to kill people in the past...
This is where whoever chose not to act on this information failed here.
Should his parents be held accountable?
If they were aware of his behaviour and provided him with access to firearms anyways, then absolutely.
If they simply did a bad job of parenting him, then no. Most Americans are terrible parents, and we'd have more of them in jail than out of it if bad parenting was a crime.
 
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6am-64-14m

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Have we not all of us at some point said: "Imma kill me a mf!"
Not to be insensitive but to me this is a natural byproduct of our societal tenets (mass shootings).
It will not end....
 

deficiT

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The evidence on SSRIs leading to homicide is very weak if even existent.
I'd imagine that cannabis and homicide would actually have a negative correlation once you adjusted for the fact that criminals are more likely to smoke cannabis and people with shit lives

This is where whoever chose not to act on this information failed here.

If they were aware of his behaviour and provided him with access to firearms anyways, then absolutely.
If they simply did a bad job of parenting him, then no. Most Americans are terrible parents, and we'd have more of them in jail than out of it if bad parenting was a crime.
Yeah, I'm pretty much on board with this pattern of thought. I think blaming the parents is a bit of a cop out, unless there is proof that they goaded them into doing it or blatantly supported it, like in the case of providing the kid with a firearm.

People need to take more accountability for their own actions imo, and parents are just a convenient scapegoat. Plenty of people that have had shitty parents that don't go on to become spree killers.
 

arrall

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Yeah, I'm pretty much on board with this pattern of thought. I think blaming the parents is a bit of a cop out, unless there is proof that they goaded them into doing it or blatantly supported it, like in the case of providing the kid with a firearm.

People need to take more accountability for their own actions imo, and parents are just a convenient scapegoat. Plenty of people that have had shitty parents that don't go on to become spree killers.
While I think that parents are generally responsible for how their children turn out, holding them criminally responsible is a very different story and presumption of innocence should still hold true here.
 

alasdairm

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i'm frequently told by right-leaners (mostly) that guns are not the issue. the issues are social in nature and poor parenting is a big factor.

so if we're not going to do anything about the gun aspect, we're going to hold poor parents - many of whom see all the red flags in the cases and do nothing - accountable, right?

(and, yes, everybody is innocent until proven guilty).

alasdair
 

Cream Gravy?

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we're going to hold poor parents - many of whom see all the red flags in the cases and do nothing - accountable, right?
I certainly hope so.

Fact of the matter is this kid's dad backed him every step of the way. He had to give permission for his son to legally acquire a... FOID? Firearm Ownership Identification... something? Idk that state has weird purchase laws. Nonetheless they failed, due to a shit dad.
 

RUC4

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I certainly hope so.

Fact of the matter is this kid's dad backed him every step of the way. He had to give permission for his son to legally acquire a... FOID? Firearm Ownership Identification... something? Idk that state has weird purchase laws. Nonetheless they failed, due to a shit dad.
The dad could be just as mentally ill as the kid. There’s a lot of that happening: mentally ill people having multiple children because they are mentally ill and don’t consider consequences or really think of the future. It’s just whatever feels good and/or gets them attention now.

My ex, who gave birth to my kid more than 12 years ago is bipolar and borderline. Low and behold, last year around this time is when my kid came back from staying with her other mother for 6 months and was suddenly exhibiting symptoms of mental illness. They (my kid) had lived solely with me (besides this 6 months), since they were 4 -when my ex and I split. My ex went on to try to get pregnant many times and succeeded last year. She drank a lot of the pregnancy and the baby has some issues.

It’s very sad that there’s no real mental health screening to buy a Very dangerous weapon, and also to have kids. I think once you’ve been given psych meds of any kind at any time in your life, you should have to have a basic psych evaluation to be cleared for having a child. I mean, there are psych evals mandatory to get certain jobs. Personality tests, background checks, even running a credit report to get some jobs, yet my mentally I’ll ex can have one and then another kid with issues. Not to mention she’s not really been a large part of our kid’s life and doesn’t have the financial resources to even have her own place to live (with her bf and baby). She lives in a one bedroom apartment with her elderly father who sleeps on the couch. Sad.
 

steewith2ees

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i'm frequently told by right-leaners (mostly) that guns are not the issue. the issues are social in nature and poor parenting is a big factor.

so if we're not going to do anything about the gun aspect, we're going to hold poor parents - many of whom see all the red flags in the cases and do nothing - accountable, right?

(and, yes, everybody is innocent until proven guilty).

alasdair
I cannot participate in these discussions anymore Ali. I look on at everything in horror and just don't get it. The fact that this is even a discussion is just ludicrous. I am scared for November - I hate the Democrats with a passion but voting for them is just basic harm reduction I cannot see why people cannot see that.
 

Xorkoth

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I was just watching a video on school shooters yesterday, and there was a case somewhere where a parent of a murdered child went after the shooters parents for not securing the guns he used.

The shooter was so young at the time that he wasn't charged asan adult and was released not long after turning 18, despite having murdered I think 4 people.

then years later died in a head on collision.

Jesus, if someone murders multiple random people, I don't care if they're not an adult, you can't let them out of prison after a few years. Or ever, really.

Yeah I don’t generally think the parents are responsible for what their adult children do (like serial killers), but in these cases, I do. This is complete negligence. Both in the case your mentioning and the others referenced above. It’s unfortunate.

Agreed, this sort of thing is way above and beyond bad parenting. Your kid threatens to kill people, and you leave a gun out for him to "play with"? That is culpability through and through. If your kid steals your gun, that is not culpability. If you fuck your kid up so bad they want to kill people, that isn't either, though it does man you're a piece of shit.

It’s very sad that there’s no real mental health screening to buy a Very dangerous weapon, and also to have kids. I think once you’ve been given psych meds of any kind at any time in your life, you should have to have a basic psych evaluation to be cleared for having a child. I mean, there are psych evals mandatory to get certain jobs. Personality tests, background checks, even running a credit report to get some jobs, yet my mentally I’ll ex can have one and then another kid with issues. Not to mention she’s not really been a large part of our kid’s life and doesn’t have the financial resources to even have her own place to live (with her bf and baby). She lives in a one bedroom apartment with her elderly father who sleeps on the couch. Sad.

Sadly, we're moving in the other direction. Now mentally ill people who have no business having kids will not be allowed to end the pregnancy, even if they want to, in many states.
 

deficiT

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It’s very sad that there’s no real mental health screening to buy a Very dangerous weapon, and also to have kids.
Just wanted to point out that this is essentially eugenics and is distasteful for a plethora of reasons that I don't think I need to go into.
 
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