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Are psychedelics really a "better" class of drugs than others?

washingtonbound

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When I was younger I had this idea that it was okay to take psychedelics but not other drugs. I know that sounds a bit silly but that's what I thought. My impression was that psychedelics were used to better yourself and for mind expansion, which I guess you could argue is the intention, and other drugs were just for getting "fucked up." As I've gotten older I feel like this was a short sided assumption and possibly not even accurate. In fact I have a couple arguments as to why they are definitely not a better class of drugs.

- Psychedelics have the capacity to make an even slightly mentally unstable person lose their mind. I have had psychosis in the past as a result of this and I notice it becoming more common. Yes you can have psychosis on stimulants but I notice that things like LSD induced psychosis seem to last longer. In my experience anyway.
- The propensity for having a bad trip that has long lasting effects. I've known some people who aren't quite right after tripping several months or even a year or so later. Some have even said they've ended up with permanent anxiety. Other drugs can cause long term changes in the brain obviously but it seems that psychedelics can disturb people in a profound way.
- If you take, say opiates daily, it will be a bitch to kick but after a while you can get back to normal with the right amount of exercise, eating right, etc. But if you were to say drop acid everyday you would wind up completely frying yourself. I knew someone who said he'd taken psychedelics like "party drugs" and he wasn't right at all. Permafried I'd say. Overall I'd say psychedelics have the most potential to really mess people up if abused.

I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching here but those are just some observations. For me, the "feeling like I had it all figured out phase" after doing psychedelics would fade away after a few days or so and leave me in the same funk as before if I'd been depressed to begin with. I think there is a certain caliber of person who can take psychs responsibly with minimal repercussions but I wasn't one of them.
 
Nah I my experience psychedelic have always been helpful even uncomfortable trips have made me come to helpful realization about my life also I find that they help reset my brain and help with depression. I've been addicted to stimulants and opiates before and they are evil and cause mental health issues or even death
 
Yes you can have psychosis on stimulants but I notice that things like LSD induced psychosis seem to last longer.
Yeah, it does last longer. About a year for me.

I think psychedelics fell victim to the same mythical pop culture status that cannabis did. "Weed is the best drug, it's harmless, it has healing powers and medical benefits".

I see it all the time especially with younger people, people who think they can take LSD and suddenly will be cured of depression or addiction, like it's some magical property of the LSD.
 
When I was younger I had this idea that it was okay to take psychedelics but not other drugs. I know that sounds a bit silly but that's what I thought. My impression was that psychedelics were used to better yourself and for mind expansion, which I guess you could argue is the intention, and other drugs were just for getting "fucked up." As I've gotten older I feel like this was a short sided assumption and possibly not even accurate. In fact I have a couple arguments as to why they are definitely not a better class of drugs.

- Psychedelics have the capacity to make an even slightly mentally unstable person lose their mind. I have had psychosis in the past as a result of this and I notice it becoming more common. Yes you can have psychosis on stimulants but I notice that things like LSD induced psychosis seem to last longer. In my experience anyway.
- The propensity for having a bad trip that has long lasting effects. I've known some people who aren't quite right after tripping several months or even a year or so later. Some have even said they've ended up with permanent anxiety. Other drugs can cause long term changes in the brain obviously but it seems that psychedelics can disturb people in a profound way.
- If you take, say opiates daily, it will be a bitch to kick but after a while you can get back to normal with the right amount of exercise, eating right, etc. But if you were to say drop acid everyday you would wind up completely frying yourself. I knew someone who said he'd taken psychedelics like "party drugs" and he wasn't right at all. Permafried I'd say. Overall I'd say psychedelics have the most potential to really mess people up if abused.

I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching here but those are just some observations. For me, the "feeling like I had it all figured out phase" after doing psychedelics would fade away after a few days or so and leave me in the same funk as before if I'd been depressed to begin with. I think there is a certain caliber of person who can take psychs responsibly with minimal repercussions but I wasn't one of them.

I don't believe Psychedelics, dosed properly have the capacity to make even a slightly mentally unstable person loose their mind. If your prone to psychosis from psychedelics then a good plan is not to take them.

Taking acid everyday in increasing doses every day would likely have negative results, but why would someone do this and if they did it would be a conscious choice and not something they were compelled to do. This world can be dangerous if you do reckless and stupid shit.

Like with most things safe responsible use produces little problems. If you have a family history of schizophrenia or experience psychosis off psychedelics then not taking them is the obvious call.
 
Better, yes. More lasting benefit to that type of inebriation. Better way to spend the instinct for other mind states.

Perfect, no.
 
Yeah, it does last longer. About a year for me.

I think psychedelics fell victim to the same mythical pop culture status that cannabis did. "Weed is the best drug, it's harmless, it has healing powers and medical benefits".

I see it all the time especially with younger people, people who think they can take LSD and suddenly will be cured of depression or addiction, like it's some magical property of the LSD.
The problem is, and it’s the same with weed, is when it’s improperly used, or someone is predisposed to not meshing well with the substance.

Or, when people think the introspection is all there is to it and no leg work is involved to change a life. To change lifelong habits.

However, what you describe in your last paragraph may not be definitive, but it’s a possibility. I’d like to say it’s an opinion, but I lived it. My daughter had one psychedelic experience (so far), and I’m sure she will never be in the hospital for self harm again. She also believes this. For the first time in her life she believes that her life holds value.

I don’t know what steps forward or backward will happen from here, but in a few hours, yes, a psychedelic experience took her farther than years of Prozac took her. That indeed did happen. And I’ve been happier than I have been years because of it. So is she. She looks a foot taller in my eyes now. Filled with the confidence she forgot is actually natural to her. That’s what happened with one single experience.

I am slot of things, but a liar I’m not. Well, definitely in this case, there no exaggeration being made.
 
I don't believe Psychedelics, dosed properly have the capacity to make even a slightly mentally unstable person loose their mind. If your prone to psychosis from psychedelics then a good plan is not to take them.

Taking acid everyday in increasing doses every day would likely have negative results, but why would someone do this and if they did it would be a conscious choice and not something they were compelled to do. This world can be dangerous if you do reckless and stupid shit.

Like with most things safe responsible use produces little problems. If you have a family history of schizophrenia or experience psychosis off psychedelics then not taking them is the obvious call.
I have no history of mental illness in my family and was diagnosed with a "substance induced mood disorder" several years ago. Several professionals have said that I don't have bipolar or schizophrenia, because the psychosis solely is elicited by drugs. I just wanted to share my experience because this kind of thing does happen even if it may not be that common. But during my trips to the hospital I definitely came across others who had been down the same path as me and gone a bit overboard on the psychedelics. I didn't think I was going overboard at the time but I think overboard means different things for different people. Just worth putting it out there that there is a dark side do it that can manifest in rather extreme ways for people, as it did for me.
 
“If you take, say opiates daily, it will be a bitch to kick but after a while you can get back to normal with the right amount of exercise, eating right, etc. But if you were to say drop acid everyday you would wind up completely frying yourself. I knew someone who said he'd taken psychedelics like "party drugs" and he wasn't right at all. Permafried I'd say. Overall I'd say psychedelics have the most potential to really mess people up if abused.”

Based on this and other posts, I get the impression you’ve a lot to learn of opiates still. I can promise you there’s MUCH greater risk of using opiates for a month VS using psychedelics for a month.

No drug is without risks but the reason people view psychedelics the way they do is the risk/benefit ratio is much better than most.

-GC
 
Psychedelics are my personal fave for several reasons:

Most euphoria
Most laughs
Best bodyhigh
Most interesting - you can do various things on it.

All other drugs shite in a dirty bucket compared to psyches
Yeah, people often think of 'medicine' and depth first when talking about psychedelics... but as pure drugs.. I've never taken any other drug that could come even remotely close to the pure fun you can have on a psychedelic.
 
“If you take, say opiates daily, it will be a bitch to kick but after a while you can get back to normal with the right amount of exercise, eating right, etc. But if you were to say drop acid everyday you would wind up completely frying yourself. I knew someone who said he'd taken psychedelics like "party drugs" and he wasn't right at all. Permafried I'd say. Overall I'd say psychedelics have the most potential to really mess people up if abused.”

Based on this and other posts, I get the impression you’ve a lot to learn of opiates still. I can promise you there’s MUCH greater risk of using opiates for a month VS using psychedelics for a month.

No drug is without risks but the reason people view psychedelics the way they do is the risk/benefit ratio is much better than most.

-GC
Occasional psychedelic use I would certainly say is better than occasional opiate use, what I was getting at is that doing it everyday might end up really frying someone and doing lasting damage. Maybe it would take a bit longer than a month but you know what I mean. With opiates I don't feel you really fry yourself in a psychotic way, it just drains your propensity to feel pleasure over time. Not saying that's great either but I don't know anyone whose gone psychotic from opiates.
 
The problem is, and it’s the same with weed, is when it’s improperly used, or someone is predisposed to not meshing well with the substance.

Or, when people think the introspection is all there is to it and no leg work is involved to change a life. To change lifelong habits.

However, what you describe in your last paragraph may not be definitive, but it’s a possibility. I’d like to say it’s an opinion, but I lived it. My daughter had one psychedelic experience (so far), and I’m sure she will never be in the hospital for self harm again. She also believes this. For the first time in her life she believes that her life holds value.

I don’t know what steps forward or backward will happen from here, but in a few hours, yes, a psychedelic experience took her farther than years of Prozac took her. That indeed did happen. And I’ve been happier than I have been years because of it. So is she. She looks a foot taller in my eyes now. Filled with the confidence she forgot is actually natural to her. That’s what happened with one single experience.

I am slot of things, but a liar I’m not. Well, definitely in this case, there no exaggeration being made.
Glad to hear your daughter had a positive experience. I don't deny people can have some breakthroughs with psychedelics, the issue I had was that these feelings tended to wane over time. I used psychs for about five years and over time the profound life changing feelings began to switch to feeling increasingly bored by reality when it wore off. And obviously I had psychosis, which I recognize isn't necessarily a common occurrence for people.
 
When I was younger I had this idea that it was okay to take psychedelics but not other drugs. I know that sounds a bit silly but that's what I thought.

it doesn't sound silly at all - in fact, you may have been on the right path - addiction is the key thing here and you're not going to end up addicted to psyches unless you're what? an idiot :) im kidding - but it's not really possible - so in that regard, they are a bit safer on multiple fronts - what's not so safe, is you go out of your mind and who knows how somebody may react to that, that isn't prepared for it. So it's a double edged sword in that regard. We're all different so it's hard to say from one person to the next. For me, i feel like im a bit more built for it, and one of those reasons is that im very practical when it comes down to it. I don't believe in much and im pretty well-grounded, despite the contrary of what's seen on my outer surface. Im pretty logical, but there's millions of people that are just like me - they're here and they're everywhere but still probably not a large percentage of the population. Not that im special or anything, even though i think i am sometimes.....it's complicated :)


now there's also this too - you can't really do psychedelics everyday because they just don't work unless you take a break - name me a psychedelic that works everyday and we can go from there but there's nothing that comes to my mind that works like that - so that in itself makes them safer than other drugs

so my approach, is that i wasn't necessarily really looking for benefits when i party - im looking to get fucked up - go outta my mind - and then by default, i found benefits that weren't really intentional - so i was never looking for lifelong benefits - i was just looking for some fun - and then the benefits happened on their own - so that's a different mindset going in

i feel like im kind of a person that isn't all positive and isn't all negative - im somewhere in the middle - which i think might be conducive to psychedelics as a whole

now ive taken too much MDMA and fried myself and it's not a comfortable feeling at all - took a while to recover - about a month twice for me and that wasn't fun - so that's one that i think you need to be careful with for sure, and it's also why i mostly abandoned that ship unless somebody tells me "dude you gotta try this..." but is mdma really a psychedelic? not really but it is - ive had some of my grandest hallucinations on MDMA/MDA - that's a complicated one - you need to be careful there for sure

so you're talking about looking for psychedelics to help cure an issue like depression and ive never taken that approach to them - i just know that somehow i ended up happier than i was before while not really looking for that result

ya follow me?

so when you're saying it takes a certain caliber of a person, you're not wrong there - id agree with that for sure
 
I think this is a good conversation because both sides offer insights into the blind spots of the other and especially with psychedelics, when they can come with a lot of fluff, helps to balance everything out. That being said, I have to disagree with you on pretty much all fronts.

- Psychedelics have the capacity to make an even slightly mentally unstable person lose their mind. I have had psychosis in the past as a result of this and I notice it becoming more common. Yes you can have psychosis on stimulants but I notice that things like LSD induced psychosis seem to last longer. In my experience anyway.
What does losing your mind even mean? See, you've gone from an ascertainable marker to determine someone's mental state to immediately flying off into opaque language that only holds any context in social and cultural beliefs, of which all are ultimately spurious and hold no weight in empirical science. Psychiatry has never been able to determine what losing your mind means. There used to such thing called insanity or lunacy, but both of these words were simply used to demonize and stigmatize those who were labelled with them and so were pretty much eradicated, and for good reason too. So you're left with a word that has little meaning other than in it's out-dated form, which again, existed only to persecute people. If you can find any scientific literature on the evidence around losing your mind and it's recognition in mental health as being a genuine state, I will salute you.

Also psychosis is not losing your mind. Again, one is a definable mental state with very known characteristics, but doesn't mean you've lost your mind. How could you lose your mind yet still be psychotic? You need a mind to be psychotic in the first place. So it's whatever slips off the tongue of whoever says it and I bet their grandmother told them that's what it was who in turn was told by her grandmother. Just ask Barbara from down the road what she thinks. Now you've solved mental health forever. These were the problems we had when we let the imagination of our societies conjure up superstitious religious imagery of what having lost your mind really means. And we still, for the most part, live with that because it spanned the best part of several hundred years in terms of our understanding of what mental illness was. Although we tended to believe it was indication of demonic possession and of the supernatural. It's still very much supernatural today to lose your mind because it's completely down to who can tell the best ghost story as to how scary it really is!

- The propensity for having a bad trip that has long lasting effects. I've known some people who aren't quite right after tripping several months or even a year or so later. Some have even said they've ended up with permanent anxiety. Other drugs can cause long term changes in the brain obviously but it seems that psychedelics can disturb people in a profound way.
But that's like saying the propensity to die in a car crash is quite high. Yeah, but it's also just as likely you could be run over walking down the street or being shot by a policeman but we never use these very real mathematically based probabilities, only when it suits us. We refuse to look at the actual facts around many things, including drugs, because we have been conditioned over many generations to be fearful of their use. Psychedelics especially fall into this bracket and many people assume the risks are very high when taking them when in fact this isn't true at all. Psychedelics have some of the lesser harms to them, and this has been proven quite a few times with empirical research into comparisons with other drugs. Mushrooms have the least harms, LSD a little more. Obviously, if you're not well mentally then taking high doses of psychedelics is not a good idea (probably, anyway) but that doesn't mean that psychedelics are actually harmful.

And again, what do you mean by aren't quite right? There's a lot of spurious language in your points that only you understand based on your own social and cultural context. Aren't quite right compared to who? And are those who apparently are quite right, are they the ultimate projection of the most perfect state of consciousness? Do we know what that is? Psychiatry can't even tell us what normal is. It's changing all the time. Go figure. If you mean they experienced a difficult experience then that's understandable but having experienced a difficult trip and then not quite being right are two completely different things. One can be quantified, whereas the other is open to magical thinking, and often is part of the problem.

- If you take, say opiates daily, it will be a bitch to kick but after a while you can get back to normal with the right amount of exercise, eating right, etc. But if you were to say drop acid everyday you would wind up completely frying yourself. I knew someone who said he'd taken psychedelics like "party drugs" and he wasn't right at all. Permafried I'd say. Overall I'd say psychedelics have the most potential to really mess people up if abused.
Opiates and psychedelics cannot be compared at all.
Again, you're using loaded language; frying yourself, permafried.
Sounds like you're f*cked forever. No way out. Gone forever. Great.
What does it mean? Sounds pretty negative and self defeating, which is what helps to reinforce that reality onto those who really think that is what is happening to them. You're not helping the cause. If you were to drop acid everyday you'd drop acid everyday. You would probably end completely dropping acid everyday. Whatever happens happens and within that context you argue on the basis of harm reduction that such a choice is probably not the wisest to make. The risks will be higher, if you can even afford to maintain the high for an entire week that is. It can done and it's historically what many of the first psychedelic pioneers did during their experimentations in the sixties and seventies. I know Ram Dass mentioned he would be high on LSD for days, as did Leary. Both ended up fine. Then again, what IS fine? Many people would call both Leary and Ram Dass nutcases if by fine you go off the spirit level of mainstream societal beliefs. To many though they were, and still are, legends. How do you know whether Leary didn't 'lose his mind'? He often talked about it. His mantra was in order to understand the mind you have to lose it. All psychedelic pioneers followed very similar philosophies. None of them ended in an asylum. Most of them in fact worked in them, at least at the very beginning anyway. When you start to unravel much of this language based on the cultural neurosis of several generations engulfed in the pointless destructive war on drugs, you see that absolutely very little, if not at all, makes sense. You could argue that in fact the war on drugs is itself indicative of psychosis. All facts about it's inception and then absolute failure while we still seek to continue this war seems pretty psychotic to me. And the people arguing for it's continuation? Frightened to go near a f*cking peyote cactus in case it gets out of the ground and mauls them to death. Who is really crazy? Hmmmm...

I would look at what exists behind your reality because it seems like it comes loaded with all the key elements that persecute, stigmatize and dehumanize. Nothing that enables but lots of disabling. The very core elements of the establishment fear of altered states that have plagued our Western civilization forever. That's likely not your reality but it belongs to those who made you believe it is yours.

Psychedelics need to be respected. I think they are not respected (widely enough anyway) because we have lost our connection to ritual and ceremony. Psychedelics ARE medicine. Not just because you read it in a new-age spirituality book but because they have been so since time began. They have ALWAYS been used as medicine to transform and transcend. This isn't wishy-washy stuff. This is fact. In today's world we have lost that connection because our societies no longer understand the language nor have the correct frameworks in place. We have no want nor need for utilizing age old wisdom and knowledge for preparing people for states of consciousness that differ from our everyday waking one. We refuse to look what we have developed over millenia in understanding and facilitating these experiences. It's no wonder people disappear to farflung places in the world for ceremonies. It's not just because it's illegal over here in the West. It's also because we instinctively know we are coming back to our roots somehow. We know and trust in the old despite hating it with the other cheek. We always seek to bring back the old in all areas of life, fashion especially and yet we refuse to acknowledge the glaring flaw in our thinking. If we had the correct frameworks and had the language to understand these experiences respective of the sheer vastness of these universes discovered and the implications on the individual, the respect would be there. People walk that road on their own largely and without the social and cultural insulation for their experiences. And when it gets difficult, which it inevitably will from time to time, they refer to the social and cultural programming and call themselves crazy, or fried as you say. It's no wonder then why it's a problem. But it's got very little to do with psychedelics on their own and everything to do with the social and cultural context for taking them, of which is completely dry as a bone and devoid of depth and meaning.
 
Occasional psychedelic use I would certainly say is better than occasional opiate use, what I was getting at is that doing it everyday might end up really frying someone and doing lasting damage. Maybe it would take a bit longer than a month but you know what I mean. With opiates I don't feel you really fry yourself in a psychotic way, it just drains your propensity to feel pleasure over time. Not saying that's great either but I don't know anyone whose gone psychotic from opiates.
You can't really do it every day unless you had a whole vial and dosed exreamly higjh as it builds an instance tolerance but why the fuck would you do that I normally get to the point sometimes on acid where I've had my fun and want it to wear off if you abuse psychedelics be prepared fot the repercussions but some people do take psychdelics dailyike Mike tyson for example he puff DMT on the regular and takes shrooms all the time and he manages lol
 
If we're talking about LSD and psilocybin, I guess you could say they're "better" in that you don't die from taking too big a dose and you won't become physically addicted.

But rather than "better" I'd say they are just "different." Like apples and oranges.

Now this is just me, but I always viewed & used psychedelics very differently from other drugs. I don't take them primarily to just feel good, even though they usually do make me feel pretty good. They aren't party drugs for me. And they aren't drugs I take frequently. Tripping is a special occasion-- a spiritual/philosophical adventure, if you will.

I trip alone-- usually out in the woods or in a dark, quiet room. I generally have profound experiences upon which I reflect for a long time afterwards.

Every other drug I use mainly for one of 4 reasons:
1. To help me work harder/longer
2. To help me wind down from work
3. To help me socialize
4. Physical pain relief

I'm seeking one or more of those things on a daily basis.
I want the psychedelic experience maybe once or twice a year.
 
Psychedelics need to be respected. I think they are not respected (widely enough anyway) because we have lost our connection to ritual and ceremony. Psychedelics ARE medicine. Not just because you read it in a new-age spirituality book but because they have been so since time began. They have ALWAYS been used as medicine to transform and transcend.
This is also very true.
I think if they are used as sacraments then all the potential problems they can caused are looked with different eyes/perspective so they are not "problems that come with that specific substance/drug" but another type of problem, more related to mental and spiritual health and a improper set/setting (like psychologiy therapies can have improper sets/settings).

To use psychedelics recreationally you must be a bit "different", not everyone likes psychedelics just because of that, because for certain people without preparation psychs are too risky, they are cautious not using them, in fact understanding them as "drugs" before considering them sacraments/medicines are troublesome because of what OP has posted..

edit: I also have thought more than once that point about rituals and our culture having lost that. It's a very important aspect of human cultures/societies on which a lot of things that are not "common" are activated, in fact there's a book of Mircea Eliade that talks about that, if I remember well, how societies have 2 different times, linear time or cyclic time and eternal/trascendeent/ritual time, where all the symbolic structure gains power and meaning, and that's the rituals about. We try to "hide" that lack with pseudo-rituals like festivals, that work a bit like that, but there's few actual rituals left so the symbolic power and meaning it's only coded and decoded by those societies that still do (in western countries: secret societies and the occult).
 
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I trip alone-- usually out in the woods or in a dark, quiet room. I generally have profound experiences upon which I reflect for a long time afterwards.
I'd like to have a psychedelic experience in the nature too, I think it's the best, but the right natural setting isn't always easy to find.
When you are out in the woods do you have like a place or hut where you can sit or lie down or you just go deep into the wood and just stand there? Can you describe a little?
 
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