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Atypical reaction to lab-tested MDMA. (NOT comedown-related).

Achten

Bluelighter
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Jun 19, 2011
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Edit:

TLDR: fit couple uses labtested mdma. Guy has a blast. Girl has elevated heart rate for 3 days. No mental comedown whatsoever. On the contrary, mentally/emotionally she was able to shed some stuff that was no longer needed. But physical side effects were present and stayed for a while

So a few weeks ago a couple (boy, girl) i hold dearly expressed the wish to enjoy some MDMA together. Both have tried mushrooms, the guy also acid. Nothing but great trips.

I gave them MDMA that was tested in a lab to be 80% pure (lab said max was 84% due to it being HCL). I have sampled this batch a few times myself and its nothing but relaxation, love and talking (emphasis on relaxation, my gf also experiences it this way).

They took it at home on a day off, slept well, ate well. Set and setting as good as it gets.

I gave the guy (40's, 75kg, fit) 130mg and her (40's, 60kg, fit) 110mg. In hindsight the dose for her was maybe on the high end, but still nothing to explain the reaction that followed.

Guy had a blast throughout. Love everywhere, music appreciation, skin tingling, you name it.

The girl had a very different reaction.

After 25-30minutes she calls him (He was out to get sth in another room) and comes back and finds her on the floor,saying she doesnt feel right and its becoming really intense. She cried and cried, the ugly cries you know. He is being extremely empathetic and is glad he can be there for her and also a bit sorry for her to have such a bad time. She feels safest when on the cold floor ("i have to hold the floor or i'm gone"). After a while she can hold his leg. Even more time passes and she can stand up and hold the wall. They comtemplate calling a docter but choose not to. Around T+2 she manages, with help from her bf, to get to the bathroom. She says she remembers everything and never blacked out.

After 2,5hours (my thoughts: exactly when the peak has passed) she manages to get up on the sofa and they spent the next hours talking. He feels awesome, she cant really quiet down. Heart racing being the main problem. At night, she can't sleep. I can imagine this happens to some extent and this is just a very intense experience with residual stimulation.

Now, a few days later i see them and i hear this whole ordeal.
She always wears a smartwatch (but took it off during the experience, so no data from that time). But she knows her average resting heart rate is around 60-65. Until 2-3days after the experience it stayed 85-90 and she feels she can't relax. My GF did some accupuncture on her and that helped her quiet down a bit, together with some CBD, and after day 4 heart rate was back to normal. She had trouble sleeping for 2days, which i'm aware doesnt help in calming down. Mind you, she is a yoga teacher (very good one at that) and is probably more aware of her body and mind than most people are. I say this to emphasize the fact that i trust her saying her HR was too high and she couldnt wind down. She feels this was not pure anxiety from an intense experience. It was something physical. Which surprised me, 2-3 days after the trip. She didnt have any "mental" comedown issues like depression or anything. Its purely physical, excerberated (sp?) by the fact that she cant sleep.

Anyway after day4 she is back in every possible way and tells me it was actually exactly what she needed (she felt she had held in some emotional stuff that the MDMA helped her release). And as a couple they felt like they had 10years of therapy together,wich was long overdue (they run a business together and time is scarce, you know how it goes). So, all in all, good outcome. But she doesnt feel like doing it again (not that this is a mist), because of the HR issue and not being able to calm down afterwards. He is eager to do it again of course, preferably without the drama that happened 😉. Which had to happen apparently, thats how trips work, he knows this.

She contacted her GP afterwards (who knows everything about the drug use, but has no experience with it herself) and she tells her "i really wouldnt have known what to do if you contacted me, the only thing i can think of in such a situation is giving beta-blockers".

I'm very interested in your opinions regarding this experience.

Thanks for reading.
 

Achten

Bluelighter
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while apparently this book is full of shit, "body keeps the score" is well said about trauma.
I can't say if that's the case but if she had serious burden, it can take form of significant physical distress.
Release can be violent.
She has mentioned this book indeed. I do believe trauma can be "stored" in the body in some way. Our consensus on the ordeal was also what you describe here, violent release of internal stress.

You think she was in any physical danger at some point? Because she kinda felt like she was, (hence my reaching out here), although she trusts me when i say that its probably stress that came out, like you said.

I myself believe she is fine and MDMA did its thing. But i'm kind reaching out on her behalf.
 

Pissed_and_messed

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I can't say I am convinced she was in danger. Even high on molly our bodies have some feedback loop systems to keep ourselves from dying. Tho they are not idiot-proof, they are pretty good at their job.
I have habit of not trip without having sedatives ready. Propranolol should do the job without issues and even maintaining the trip.
What I said about book was only quick look over reports of it and I guess she can evaluate it better than me.
 

G_Chem

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This experience is not completely unknown, especially it being the first time. She got hit with a wall of emotion she had built up over many years. I’ve seen this happen and read about it too.

I’d say despite her thinking it isn’t anxiety, I have a feeling to some extent it was. I know she’s a yoga teacher but based on such an extreme emotional release I’m wondering how well she truly knows herself.

It’s hard to say one way or the other after such an intense revelatory experience such as that. The body will act in weird ways until she can calm it down through her practices like yoga.

My only thought is possibly some impurities causing this reaction but I’d sooner put it on the individual than the drug.

-GC
 

Achten

Bluelighter
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I can't say I am convinced she was in danger. Even high on molly our bodies have some feedback loop systems to keep ourselves from dying. Tho they are not idiot-proof, they are pretty good at their job.
I have habit of not trip without having sedatives ready. Propranolol should do the job without issues and even maintaining the trip.
What I said about book was only quick look over reports of it and I guess she can evaluate it better than me.
I think at day 2 or 3 she asked me if Valium would be ok, and i told her i wouldnt do it because then the experience would be nulled (or at least severely less efficient). Worst part was over already so why not weather through.

Although i realize you probably mean taking a sedative when things het out of hand during the experience.
 

Pissed_and_messed

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benzodiazepines are double-edged sword in the sense that while they numb, obliterating anxiety can give space for other emotions
I have experienced crying spell right after taking clonazepam on 5-meo-mipt
 

Achten

Bluelighter
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This experience is not completely unknown, especially it being the first time. She got hit with a wall of emotion she had built up over many years. I’ve seen this happen and read about it too.

I’d say despite her thinking it isn’t anxiety, I have a feeling to some extent it was. I know she’s a yoga teacher but based on such an extreme emotional release I’m wondering how well she truly knows herself.

It’s hard to say one way or the other after such an intense revelatory experience such as that. The body will act in weird ways until she can calm it down through her practices like yoga.

My only thought is possibly some impurities causing this reaction but I’d sooner put it on the individual than the drug.

-GC

I feel the same way what you say about knowing herself. Being a good yoga teacher doesnt mean being all zen yourself. Big difference indeed.

I agree that its probably the person and not the drug. Thanks for replying 🙏.

No known impurities detected in the lab, although that doesnt rule it out entirely.

I can literally see she has shed something she didnt need anymore. Actually beautiful to see. And what a praise for MDMA. Shulgin is the man ♥️

Edit: because i do find it a little strange that this didnt come up with mushroom trips (up to 5gr dried) and it did with MDMA. Everyone is different of course and mushrooms are maybe too "out there" (as in , another world) to have some real effect on emotions in daily life.
 

realgar

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Could that be a drug-drug interaction? Perhaps she was receiving a MAO inhibitor?
 

G_Chem

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I feel the same way what you say about knowing herself. Being a good yoga teacher doesnt mean being all zen yourself. Big difference indeed.

I agree that its probably the person and not the drug. Thanks for replying 🙏.

No known impurities detected in the lab, although that doesnt rule it out entirely.

I can literally see she has shed something she didnt need anymore. Actually beautiful to see. And what a praise for MDMA. Shulgin is the man ♥️

Edit: because i do find it a little strange that this didnt come up with mushroom trips (up to 5gr dried) and it did with MDMA. Everyone is different of course and mushrooms are maybe too "out there" (as in , another world) to have some real effect on emotions in daily life.

I’d like to add that someone can work on certain spiritual practices their whole life and in the matter of one experience have everything they know flipped upside down. It shouldn’t be looked at negatively (as I feel I came off in my first post) but moreso as a reflection of just how intense and revelatory these drugs can be.

Everyone reacts differently to different psychedelics/empathogens. For some a potent psychedelic is what is needed, for others a drug like MDMA can allow the barriers to drop enough for personal development to take place. I was an MDMA person, but for some it’s LSD, DMT, mushrooms, etc.

-GC
 

Achten

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I’d like to add that someone can work on certain spiritual practices their whole life and in the matter of one experience have everything they know flipped upside down. It shouldn’t be looked at negatively (as I feel I came off in my first post) but moreso as a reflection of just how intense and revelatory these drugs can be.

Everyone reacts differently to different psychedelics/empathogens. For some a potent psychedelic is what is needed, for others a drug like MDMA can allow the barriers to drop enough for personal development to take place. I was an MDMA person, but for some it’s LSD, DMT, mushrooms, etc.

-GC

Totally agree with both paragraphs.

I actually feel blessed to have witnessed this.

I came to their yoga studio after years of intense trips, looking for guidance how to incorporate my insights into tangible work in the real world, and they helped me with this. They always were intrigued about the trips though because apparently i spoke about them the way they approach yoga. 6years later they took their first trip ever themselves. What a wonderful world😁.
 

MountainTrails

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This is familiar to me.

I have never had the experience everyone hopes for. Never. Recently, I had a comeup that was exquisitely unpleasant and had me in pain for 4 hours. I get no happy/ecstasy feeling, no increased empathy, but it definitely puts my emotions closer to the surface and increases my interest in communication. So I do it occasionally. But it puts me through the wringer. (Anyone I have done it with has had a normal response to the same product.)

So for me it works and doesn't work.

I dunno. Maybe I'm massively, massively fucked up and still releasing pain. There's a lot of it. Will it ever end? is a real question for me. But MDMA's not the fun time for me that would make it easier.
 

shugenja

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All women develop a higher serum peak level of MDMA than men and some develop a much higher peak serum level because it takes longer for them to actually move into the metabolism stage.

She may be someone who is a very initial slow metabolizer so she gets a huge peak and gets the slamming rush that we all want, but she's not ready for it.
 
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