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Benzos Benzo Taper Without Diazepam

D

dangermouse7831

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
24
I've come off the cigarettes, alcohol, heroin and methadone - and now it's time for the benzos.

I've taken lorazepam irregularly for 15 years - never addicted or dependent. These were prescribed and only used at max 2 times per week.

When I did a rapid detox from methadone I eased the pain with benzos and have been on them daily for about 5 months. I was using massive doses of clonazolam in the beginning (powder in propylene glycol) mixed with just about every other benzo there is. I'd estimate I was on 30-40mg alprazolam a day equivalent. Crazy amounts.

I'm now down to 3-4 clonazolam bars a day (i.e. fake xanax). I estimate this to be roughly 6-8mg of alprazolam a day (based on the calculations above), so I've dropped it down a fair bit, and am now functioning with a working memory again. I have been on this much since Xmas so I know I'm stable on this dose. I now want off. I am not addicted, but I imagine I am physically dependent so I have to be careful to avoid seizures etc.

I know the Ashton manual, but the problem is I can't take Diazepam. It causes me to go into severe depressive episodes. I don't know why it does and other benzos don't, but it is what it is.

The only long-ish acting benzo I can reliably get unadulterated is clonazepam/klonopin 2mg. I will hopefully have 100 of them soon. My thoughts are that I can probably perform a wean using these 100 tabs. Start at the minimum amount I can tolerate per day (I am hoping 2-3 pills) and then reduce my dose over time. I'm happy to use a razor blade to cut them into tiny pieces close to the end.

Has anyone here used clonazepam to perform a taper before? Am I overly optimistic? Or is what I have planned reasonable.
 
dangermouse7831 said:
is what I have planned reasonable.
Click to expand...
Although we will all have different reactions when tapering there are also some likenesses.
Once stable on a dose wait a couple weeks and then drop another 5-10% (whatever you can handle) of the stable dose until stabalized on this then drop again.
Also a "trick" I use (and probably others do as well) is skip a dose in the afternoons when tapering.
May not be the easiest drug to quit but any time we do less (by whatever means) it is, well, less... which is what we are aiming for when dropping a substance.
You can do it just dig the ol' heels in and and grunt it out.
<3
 
As you got from 30 – 40mg to 6 - 8mg, don’t worry, you got this. I'm sure you'll get to 1 – 2mg of clonazepam soon enough. From there consider your options according to how you’ll feel.

How irregularly was lorazepam use during 15 years? Was it part of poly-drug use/abuse? How big doses you were taking?

Do you have instant or extended release clonazepam?
 
I was taking 0.5-1mg twice a week. Sometimes I took weeks off.

I only escalate my dose when I did a rapid (6 weeks) taper from 110mg done to 0 and felt shitty. I also overdid the benzos no doubt.

The only clonaz I can get is instant release 2mg, and even that's looking shaky now. Fortunately I have hundreds of clonaz left so I think I'll just use them to slowly reduce.
 
If zopiclone really helps you with sleep I would cut the dose significantly, enough to cause some insomnia and use it to get to sleep.

And as you are imo in a good situation were using up hundreds of pills before getting to 0 would be contraproductive you’re better of substituting part of use for diazepam right away or soon if you really have only a small amount, and use it at first latter in the day. Depending how’s diazepam affecting you, given your previous use, dose of 2 – 10mg will be enough.

Are you planing to be totally drug free? You have to be ready to feel shitty for some time, be it you stop in 8 days, lowering dose by mg every day or if you stop after using up hundreds of pills so to get something non addictive (as much as a drug can be) and less harmful to make you feel better might be good idea so you don’t find yourself tempted to use them again a lot.
 
I would save the valium for the time when you are basically ending your taper. Reason being they have an extremely long half life which means a less acute withdrawl when you finally decide to quit.

Congrats on the decision to get off them, it can be a rough experience but with strategy and commitment you can do this.
 
dangermouse7831 said:
I've come off the cigarettes, alcohol, heroin and methadone - and now it's time for the benzos.

I've taken lorazepam irregularly for 15 years - never addicted or dependent. These were prescribed and only used at max 2 times per week.

When I did a rapid detox from methadone I eased the pain with benzos and have been on them daily for about 5 months. I was using massive doses of clonazolam in the beginning (powder in propylene glycol) mixed with just about every other benzo there is. I'd estimate I was on 30-40mg alprazolam a day equivalent. Crazy amounts.

I'm now down to 3-4 clonazolam bars a day (i.e. fake xanax). I estimate this to be roughly 6-8mg of alprazolam a day (based on the calculations above), so I've dropped it down a fair bit, and am now functioning with a working memory again. I have been on this much since Xmas so I know I'm stable on this dose. I now want off. I am not addicted, but I imagine I am physically dependent so I have to be careful to avoid seizures etc.

I know the Ashton manual, but the problem is I can't take Diazepam. It causes me to go into severe depressive episodes. I don't know why it does and other benzos don't, but it is what it is.

The only long-ish acting benzo I can reliably get unadulterated is clonazepam/klonopin 2mg. I will hopefully have 100 of them soon. My thoughts are that I can probably perform a wean using these 100 tabs. Start at the minimum amount I can tolerate per day (I am hoping 2-3 pills) and then reduce my dose over time. I'm happy to use a razor blade to cut them into tiny pieces close to the end.

Has anyone here used clonazepam to perform a taper before? Am I overly optimistic? Or is what I have planned reasonable.
Click to expand...
Librium.
 
dangermouse7831 said:
I also did some digging and found a few dozen zopiclone and a handful of 5mg valium that I can use at the end. The more I dig the more benzos I find.
Click to expand...
You are going to have to titrate the Clonazepam with ethanol, because it is not water soluble.

2mg of Clonazepam is equivalent to 40 mg of Valium, so .25mg is equivalent to 5mg Valium. That's 1/8 tablet, impossible to accurately taper by shaving pills.

Mix 1 tablet in x ml of 40% ethanol. Once dissolved completely, you can dilute with water, then divide as needed to get your dose.
 
shugenja said:
You are going to have to titrate the Clonazepam with ethanol, because it is not water soluble.

2mg of Clonazepam is equivalent to 40 mg of Valium, so .25mg is equivalent to 5mg Valium. That's 1/8 tablet, impossible to accurately taper by shaving pills.

Mix 1 tablet in x ml of 40% ethanol. Once dissolved completely, you can dilute with water, then divide as needed to get your dose.
Click to expand...

Thanks - do you know if it's soluble in propylene glycol? I don't touch ethanol unless it's an emergency.
 
dangermouse7831 said:
I have no way of getting Librium. Sometimes I push my luck with customs, but not for librium I wouldnt.

I can get powdered fluclotizolam but I don't really know its potency and may go backwards by accident.
Click to expand...
Librium is a basic prescription benzodiazepine. It's chlordiazepoxide. It was the first benzodiazepine ever discovered.
 
Zopiclone is absolutely trash, horrible “Z-drug” referred to as a benzo is disguise in the medical community, that unbearable metallic taste from just a single 7.5mg blue football scored tablet lingers for 2 days min and ruins every meal and drink you have.

Clonidine 0.1mg tablets are invaluable….Amazingly potent anxiolytic used off label as a mild sedative. Reducing norepinephrine in the brain, lowering blood pressure & heart rate….even half a tablet is effective for a 240lbs / 6” male such as myself ….just with long term use (daily for 1.5 weeks) you MUST slowly reduce dosage daily to prevent rebound hypertension

Diclazepam would be the best RC benzo, acting as a prodrug to Delorazepam and then finally Lorazepam (Ativan) all legitimately prescribed benzodiazepine medications. It was even synthesized by the same chemist who made Diazepam (Valium) & Clonazepam (Klonopin)

Valium & Klonopin are great tapering tools though……but Diclazepam actually has a longer action with its 3 active metabolites
 
if clonazepam is what you have then find a stable dose and stay their for a week. Then as others have said, 10% a week is the usual formula. It worked for me after a laughably huge diclazepam dependence.

My wife still refers to it as 'the quiet year' because I woke at 9AM, worked until 7PM, ate a meal and went to bed.

Just be careful not to use alcohol. Threating a benzo habit with alcohol is usually a disaster. i ended up drinking 2 bottles of gin a day and almost killed myself. Then stopping the alcohol was a nightmare.

I got to respect alcohol a lot more and benzos furvently.

I think other anxiolytics like etifoxine are legal. You will NOT get any euphoria but they may well help with a benzo habit. But do look into etifoxine closely. It looks like it's given in a single dose unit TID and so you need to be stable on that as well. I only mention it as the closest LEGAL drug to the benzos.
 
shugenja said:
You are going to have to titrate the Clonazepam with ethanol, because it is not water soluble.

2mg of Clonazepam is equivalent to 40 mg of Valium, so .25mg is equivalent to 5mg Valium. That's 1/8 tablet, impossible to accurately taper by shaving pills.

Mix 1 tablet in x ml of 40% ethanol. Once dissolved completely, you can dilute with water, then divide as needed to get your dose.
Click to expand...

there's clonazepam drops that can be much more accurately dosed
 
dangermouse7831 said:
I've come off the cigarettes, alcohol, heroin and methadone - and now it's time for the benzos.

I've taken lorazepam irregularly for 15 years - never addicted or dependent. These were prescribed and only used at max 2 times per week.

When I did a rapid detox from methadone I eased the pain with benzos and have been on them daily for about 5 months. I was using massive doses of clonazolam in the beginning (powder in propylene glycol) mixed with just about every other benzo there is. I'd estimate I was on 30-40mg alprazolam a day equivalent. Crazy amounts.

I'm now down to 3-4 clonazolam bars a day (i.e. fake xanax). I estimate this to be roughly 6-8mg of alprazolam a day (based on the calculations above), so I've dropped it down a fair bit, and am now functioning with a working memory again. I have been on this much since Xmas so I know I'm stable on this dose. I now want off. I am not addicted, but I imagine I am physically dependent so I have to be careful to avoid seizures etc.

I know the Ashton manual, but the problem is I can't take Diazepam. It causes me to go into severe depressive episodes. I don't know why it does and other benzos don't, but it is what it is.

The only long-ish acting benzo I can reliably get unadulterated is clonazepam/klonopin 2mg. I will hopefully have 100 of them soon. My thoughts are that I can probably perform a wean using these 100 tabs. Start at the minimum amount I can tolerate per day (I am hoping 2-3 pills) and then reduce my dose over time. I'm happy to use a razor blade to cut them into tiny pieces close to the end.

Has anyone here used clonazepam to perform a taper before? Am I overly optimistic? Or is what I have planned reasonable.
Click to expand...
Stabilize on clonazepam, and make a 5% cut of your original dose 10% at most.

Also I highly recommend you join benzobuddies a wealth of information on different tapers
 
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