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Bupe Best way to taper down?

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
I'm on 8mg Suboxone at the moment. Want to tapper it down to 4mg. Time is not important because I would like to do it with the minimal side effects. So far I realised one thing. Subs work best for the first 8-10 hours. I am taking it once a day but thinking about switching to twice a day during tapering period. Does it make any sense? 🤔
 

Isavela

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 14, 2017
Messages
211
Do you take it sublingual? Tablets or films? Suboxone is not very hard to taper down, i suggest you taper 1mg a week so there is minimal chance to get withdrawals at all. And i suggest you take it once a day.
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
I take film and just doing exactly as you've suggested. After the first week I am around 7mg. Only side effect is the afternoon headache. That's the reason why I was asking about taking it twice a day. Never did that before and my alarm clock is set for 6am when I take my dose.I was wrong the whole time as I thought that Suboxone is a slow release medication. Wrong. Extended release is the right term. That's why l feel much better in the morning than in the afternoon. Thanks for your advice. ✌️
 

LucidSDreamr

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,225
Location
Silicodone Valley
U have to accept you're going to feel like shit. No way around that when tapering.

Take very small doses of the sub strip starting well before you go into WD. You'll find thar you can be "well" on much smaller doses that u thought. But if u wait till u start feeling sick to dose, you'll be inclined to take larger doses and ruin the taper
 

Treyderaid

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 17, 2018
Messages
140
Location
Asheville, North Carolina
So, I too am currently tapering from Suboxone. I jumped from 8mg daily to 6mg daily 6 days ago. I have noticed slight withdrawals, a little nausea, a little headache, and all of my chronic pain has increased in intensity markedly. I'm feeling my knee,hip, and shoulder injuries far more intensely from my long history of skateboarding and that has been the biggest adjustment. Sometimes I smoke pot, sometimes I pop a 0.5mg tablet of clonazepam, sometimes I take a tylenol for the pain and last night I had a drink, but I think I'm hanging in there well for the most part.
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
U have to accept you're going to feel like shit. No way around that when tapering.

Take very small doses of the sub strip starting well before you go into WD. You'll find thar you can be "well" on much smaller doses that u thought. But if u wait till u start feeling sick to dose, you'll be inclined to take larger doses and ruin the taper
Absolutely right. Been there, done that. This time I will try to do it right.
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
So, I too am currently tapering from Suboxone. I jumped from 8mg daily to 6mg daily 6 days ago. I have noticed slight withdrawals, a little nausea, a little headache, and all of my chronic pain has increased in intensity markedly. I'm feeling my knee,hip, and shoulder injuries far more intensely from my long history of skateboarding and that has been the biggest adjustment. Sometimes I smoke pot, sometimes I pop a 0.5mg tablet of clonazepam, sometimes I take a tylenol for the pain and last night I had a drink, but I think I'm hanging in there well for the most part.
I tried that last month and couldn't do it. Insomnia became the major problem. So I decided to cut 0.5mg per week. So far so good. ✌️
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
U have to accept you're going to feel like shit. No way around that when tapering.

Take very small doses of the sub strip starting well before you go into WD. You'll find thar you can be "well" on much smaller doses that u thought. But if u wait till u start feeling sick to dose, you'll be inclined to take larger doses and ruin the taper
Some people claim that they did it without major side effects. Everyone is different. I am cutting very small doses now and feel good. 0.5mg per week. If everything is fine I will be on 4mg in about 2 months time. ✌️
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
U have to accept you're going to feel like shit. No way around that when tapering.

Take very small doses of the sub strip starting well before you go into WD. You'll find thar you can be "well" on much smaller doses that u thought. But if u wait till u start feeling sick to dose, you'll be inclined to take larger doses and ruin the taper
Have you heard something about the low dosage (1.5-2mg) being the best if you wanna feel some buzz? Or is it just a myth? 🤔
 

LucidSDreamr

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,225
Location
Silicodone Valley
Have you heard something about the low dosage (1.5-2mg) being the best if you wanna feel some buzz? Or is it just a myth? 🤔
It's true. Doses around 1.5 mg are more recreational than doses in the 3 mg range to a dependent user.

To an opiate naive body though I don't think the same applies.

Regardless it's really easy to get down to doses of 0.5 mg per day or so on subs.

Then you go to 0.1mg, then 0.1mg.every 48 hrs rather than 24 hrs. And the hardest part is always going from an ultra low dose to nothing.

Bupe is quite hard to go to zero on. It's easier to go from a miniscule dose of something like transdermal fent or oxy (ie 0.5 mg oxy) to zero....but this technique is only for those with extreme discipline that wouldn't abuse the oxy or fent.
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
It's true. Doses around 1.5 mg are more recreational than doses in the 3 mg range to a dependent user.

To an opiate naive body though I don't think the same applies.

Regardless it's really easy to get down to doses of 0.5 mg per day or so on subs.

Then you go to 0.1mg, then 0.1mg.every 48 hrs rather than 24 hrs. And the hardest part is always going from an ultra low dose to nothing.

Bupe is quite hard to go to zero on. It's easier to go from a miniscule dose of something like transdermal fent or oxy (ie 0.5 mg oxy) to zero....but this technique is only for those with extreme discipline that wouldn't abuse the oxy or fent.
Thanks a lot for your advice. I apologise for not being clear enough. My final goal is to get down to 2mg and stay on it for life. In my case Suboxone is working miracle and I don't want to quit. First, it significantly helps my depression. Chronic pain is also not an issue anymore. And last but not least, since I started this therapy l never looked back and have no desire at all to go back to the painkillers. So if you get what am I saying, you will understand my decision. I've been able to reduce my antidepressants to the minimal dose and for the occasional pain I only take paracetamol and ibuprofen. If l quit l have so much to lose and nothing to gain. ✌️
 
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Treyderaid

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 17, 2018
Messages
140
Location
Asheville, North Carolina
So here's a little update for you guys. I'm down to 4/1 mg a day of suboxone (bupe/naloxone). This is my second day at 4mg. Last week I went to six mg for a week and the week before I was at 8 mg. I have very few if any withdrawal effects and I have noticed a marked decrease in my level of sedation I experience on a daily basis. I feel like I have more energy on 4mg than I had on 8.
 
Last edited:

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
Well done mate! I am trying to do something similar but it takes a bit more time. I am tapering 0.5mg per week. Also started at 8 and at the moment taking around 5mg. If everything goes according to the plan in 2 weeks time I will be at 4mg as well. So far - so good and there is no major side effects. Regarding my energy level nothing has changed (yet). I wish you all the best and just continue your good work. ✌️
 

Treyderaid

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 17, 2018
Messages
140
Location
Asheville, North Carolina
So here's another little update for you guys. I am down to 4mg of buprenorhine (Suboxone) a day. Today is my 5th consecutive day at 4mg and I feel few if any withdrawal effects. I did notice some slight irritability the 1st few days at 4mg, along with some sweating and a marked increase in the amount of pain I experience from old injuries I sustained in my skateboarding career. Aside from the fact that my injuries still bother me more frequently, Those withdrawal effects have now subsided. at 4mg I can now have a daily bowel movement every morning and maybe even another later in the day, long story short, my opioid induced constipation has subsided. I also feel like I have way more energy on 4mg than I had on 8mg. My ultimate goal is to completely get off of suboxone, and relatively soon. I feel like suboxone maintenance was a key factor in my sobriety for the 1st year at least, but since then I've made life changes and realizations that have put me in a place where I feel like suboxone is only holding me back and has become more of an inconvenience than it is worth continuing (for more than one reason, but I'll spare you guys the novel). In 2 days I'm going down to 2 mg and I've heard a lot about how from this part forward a lot of people struggle with reducing their dose more and more so I will admit that I am a little nervous, but I feel ready to face the fact that I will be ucomfortable for a while and have some comfort meds to deal with it (marijuana, hashish, and some clonazepam). I'm hoping for the best and appreciate any feedback. Good luck to you all, -Trey.
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
Excellent news! And a hope for all of us who are trying to tapper down. You are the boss and you know best what's right for you. Each of us is in a specific situation but it's always good to know when someone makes a big progress, like you. As I already said I am afraid to quit completely because I have other issues (depression and chronic headache). I hope that I can follow your footsteps and get down to 2mg. Maintaining that dose for life would be my final goal. I just can't quit completely because that would lead to using painkillers and antidepressants again. You a the winner my friend, and all that stands between you and holding a trophy is the patience. All the best! ✌️
 

Xorkoth

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
62,171
Location
In the mountains
So here's another little update for you guys. I am down to 4mg of buprenorhine (Suboxone) a day. Today is my 5th consecutive day at 4mg and I feel few if any withdrawal effects. I did notice some slight irritability the 1st few days at 4mg, along with some sweating and a marked increase in the amount of pain I experience from old injuries I sustained in my skateboarding career. Aside from the fact that my injuries still bother me more frequently, Those withdrawal effects have now subsided. at 4mg I can now have a daily bowel movement every morning and maybe even another later in the day, long story short, my opioid induced constipation has subsided. I also feel like I have way more energy on 4mg than I had on 8mg. My ultimate goal is to completely get off of suboxone, and relatively soon. I feel like suboxone maintenance was a key factor in my sobriety for the 1st year at least, but since then I've made life changes and realizations that have put me in a place where I feel like suboxone is only holding me back and has become more of an inconvenience than it is worth continuing (for more than one reason, but I'll spare you guys the novel). In 2 days I'm going down to 2 mg and I've heard a lot about how from this part forward a lot of people struggle with reducing their dose more and more so I will admit that I am a little nervous, but I feel ready to face the fact that I will be ucomfortable for a while and have some comfort meds to deal with it (marijuana, hashish, and some clonazepam). I'm hoping for the best and appreciate any feedback. Good luck to you all, -Trey.

Good job! I would caution against dropping from 2mg to nothing all at once. Bupe saturates the receptors at about 2mg, so dropping down to 2mg from any dose is not that hard. But going below 2mg becomes much harder. Additioanlly, the lower your dose, the larger a percentage drop every milligram is. When you were at 8mg, a 2mg drop was 25%. At 4mg, it's 50%, a MUCH larger drop. My guess will be that even if you drop from 2mg to 1mg all at once, it's going to be far more difficult than any of your previous drops, or even than it would have been to drop from 8mg to 2mg all at once.

You can try dropping to 1mg from 2mg, but if it becomes to the point that you're in danger of relapsing or you just can't handle it, don't beat yourself up, and instead try dropping by 20%, or 10%. Which would be 1.8mg (if 10%) or 1.6mg (if 20%). Then wait until you feel normalized, and drop another 10% (I'd recommend 10%, not 20%, for each drop). So if you're taking 1.8mg, another 10% would put you at 1.62mg. After you feel normal, drop another 10%, which would be about 1.46mg. Continue with this pattern until you get down very low, like 0.1mg. Yes, it's going to take quite a while, but it will give you the greatest chance of success because you will avoid having bad withdrawals. From a super low dose, you will still have withdrawals when you jump off, but they should be much easier to deal with than jumping off at 2mg, or 1mg. Remember, that for pain to non-opiate addicts, the dose prescribed is 0.1 to 0.3mg. 2mg is far too much for an opiate naive person... the drug fully saturates the mu opiate receptors at 2mg. It is not at all a low dose, it just might seem that way when doctors prescribe 8-24mg per day for opiate addicts. That really is overkill... the biggest reason for those huge doses, considering it doesn't become more effective at high dosages due to receptor saturation, is because it takes much longer to wear off and therefore eliminates interdose withdrawal, and blocks any other opioids from being able to be felt for much longer.

I'm on bupe myself right now, sadly. I had 5 years clean after 10 years of intense opiate addiction, from 2014 to 2019, and unfortunately relapsed when my dad was dying. And I've been struggling since. I tried to quit many times since then and was tired of the daily rollercoaster and spending so much money, and got on bupe. It was a good decision but I am scared about trying to get off. I'm on 12mg a day right now. I'm just riding on that dose for the next few months as I go through a very intense period at work, but my plan is to do the 10% drop per day that I described above. I know it will take me a long time to get down to where I jump off, but I also know it will give me the greatest chance of success. I plan to drop down to 2mg pretty rapidly, but from there I am going to go very slowly, because I have tried dropping quickly from 2mg before and it did not go well.

One other thing, if you have the films/strips, you won't be able to dose with that level of precision. I made sure to request the pills when I went on it, so that I could crush them up and use my milligram scale to weigh out my doses with great accuracy, when the time comes to taper down. I explained to my prescribed that that was why I wanted them, and they agreed that was a good idea and obliged me. The strips can be cut, but once you get a small enough piece, you lose the ability to really be able to attach it to your cheek/tongue effectively. And it's also hard to cut them accurately below 1mg.
 

Man67

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
150
Good job! I would caution against dropping from 2mg to nothing all at once. Bupe saturates the receptors at about 2mg, so dropping down to 2mg from any dose is not that hard. But going below 2mg becomes much harder. Additioanlly, the lower your dose, the larger a percentage drop every milligram is. When you were at 8mg, a 2mg drop was 25%. At 4mg, it's 50%, a MUCH larger drop. My guess will be that even if you drop from 2mg to 1mg all at once, it's going to be far more difficult than any of your previous drops, or even than it would have been to drop from 8mg to 2mg all at once.

You can try dropping to 1mg from 2mg, but if it becomes to the point that you're in danger of relapsing or you just can't handle it, don't beat yourself up, and instead try dropping by 20%, or 10%. Which would be 1.8mg (if 10%) or 1.6mg (if 20%). Then wait until you feel normalized, and drop another 10% (I'd recommend 10%, not 20%, for each drop). So if you're taking 1.8mg, another 10% would put you at 1.62mg. After you feel normal, drop another 10%, which would be about 1.46mg. Continue with this pattern until you get down very low, like 0.1mg. Yes, it's going to take quite a while, but it will give you the greatest chance of success because you will avoid having bad withdrawals. From a super low dose, you will still have withdrawals when you jump off, but they should be much easier to deal with than jumping off at 2mg, or 1mg. Remember, that for pain to non-opiate addicts, the dose prescribed is 0.1 to 0.3mg. 2mg is far too much for an opiate naive person... the drug fully saturates the mu opiate receptors at 2mg. It is not at all a low dose, it just might seem that way when doctors prescribe 8-24mg per day for opiate addicts. That really is overkill... the biggest reason for those huge doses, considering it doesn't become more effective at high dosages due to receptor saturation, is because it takes much longer to wear off and therefore eliminates interdose withdrawal, and blocks any other opioids from being able to be felt for much longer.

I'm on bupe myself right now, sadly. I had 5 years clean after 10 years of intense opiate addiction, from 2014 to 2019, and unfortunately relapsed when my dad was dying. And I've been struggling since. I tried to quit many times since then and was tired of the daily rollercoaster and spending so much money, and got on bupe. It was a good decision but I am scared about trying to get off. I'm on 12mg a day right now. I'm just riding on that dose for the next few months as I go through a very intense period at work, but my plan is to do the 10% drop per day that I described above. I know it will take me a long time to get down to where I jump off, but I also know it will give me the greatest chance of success. I plan to drop down to 2mg pretty rapidly, but from there I am going to go very slowly, because I have tried dropping quickly from 2mg before and it did not go well.

One other thing, if you have the films/strips, you won't be able to dose with that level of precision. I made sure to request the pills when I went on it, so that I could crush them up and use my milligram scale to weigh out my doses with great accuracy, when the time comes to taper down. I explained to my prescribed that that was why I wanted them, and they agreed that was a good idea and obliged me. The strips can be cut, but once you get a small enough piece, you lose the ability to really be able to attach it to your cheek/tongue effectively. And it's also hard to cut them accurately below 1mg.
Sorry to interfere but got just one question. According to your comment you are wery well informed and have personal experience with this stuff. I started at 16, currently at 4 with a goal to tapper down to 2mg and stay there for life. I'm not sure that I understand everything, but according to you 2mg is something like the optimal dose with the full potential of Bupe released? Please, correct me if I am wrong. 🤔
 

Xorkoth

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
62,171
Location
In the mountains
That's correct. 2mg maxes out the receptor saturation for bupenorphine, and seems to not start to invoke the reverse agonism/antagonism that can happen at higher doses. Most people seem to report better effect with less side effects at 2mg. They really prescribe much too high doses for bupe.

Even despite that, you can become used to much higher doses and you will experience withdrawals if you suddenly drop to 2mg. That's where I'm at now, at about 12mg per day. I want to drop down to 2mg, but I can't afford to feel shitty right now because I'm working 10-12 hour days in a high stress job. But once things calm down I am going to start dropping down.

But yeah, 2mg is the place you want to be if you want to stick to a maintenance dose for life.
 
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